OT: College enrollment and financial issues?

[NotInRHouse]

Unless the parents are paying 75% of the tuition and can afford it, the parents shouldn’t allow them to go there. It’s their responsibility to explain it to their kids who may not be mature enough to understand the outstanding student loan balance when they get out. It’s ridiculous to have more than $50,000 student loan balance when you graduate. If they can’t afford to have only a $50,000 loan balance they should be commuting to school.

Ultimately they should let an 18 year old make his or her own choices, but for a kid able to get into RU (today means SAT well north of 1300) they should be able to understand the basics of money.

My parents flat out told me what they could afford. Unfortunately I was not to explore the culture and beautiful campuses until I paid my own grad school fare.

It's also really sad today...I live in JC...and walking around here, and in Hoboken, it's still mostly millennials. We have a COL crisis in this country for sure, but part of it is these fuel on the fire decisions like paying for University of Tampa. They can't afford to move out of their parents' houses and that creates yet another cascading crisis.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Our high school counselors make every kid apply to Rutgers.

I can only imagine the Shop Rite line rage.

 

[jordkap]

poor parenting and I've touched on this in other posts.

it should be the default but Rutgers does Rutgers. I've given examples as to why many kids want to go away but do not discount the diversity angle. People get mad at that view but it's real and it's been expressed many times.

some terrific schools there but they too present their own issues for graduates looking to go right into workforce.

not following the logic of lumping IU into the poor decision with Carl's Jr and arizona st but adding MD and PSU in the good bucket. IU has some of the best programs in various fields and it's a great college experience with an incredible alumni network.

Indiana has almost an 80% acceptance rate and an average SAT score about 200 points lower than Maryland and also lower than Penn State. There are select schools within Indiana that are competitive sure, but general admission is absolutely less competitive.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Indiana has almost an 80% acceptance rate and an average SAT score about 200 points lower than Maryland and also lower than Penn State. There are select schools within Indiana that are competitive sure, but general admission is absolutely less competitive.

and?

I didn't say IU or MD was better than the other but I absolutely inferred that IU is better than Carl's Jr and Arizona st

The reality is that IU, MD, PSU and Rutgers are similar. some great programs and some fluff with outstanding students and some very average. BU has lower acceptance rate than all of them, would you consider BU better? acceptance rates matter, not as much as you think with respects to state schools because there factors in such rates that privates don't consider or employ. Of course you know this, you cited acceptance rates as condition of support for an inference not made

 

[jordkap]

and?

I didn't say IU or MD was better than the other but I absolutely inferred that IU is better than Carl's Jr and Arizona st

The reality is that IU, MD, PSU and Rutgers are similar. some great programs and some fluff with outstanding students and some very average. BU has lower acceptance rate than all of them, would you consider BU better? acceptance rates matter, not as much as you think with respects to state schools because there factors in such rates that privates don't consider or employ. Of course you know this, you cited acceptance rates as condition of support for an inference not made

BU has nothing to do with the argument, it’s a private school, they follow the a different set of rules entirely.

 

[mdk02]

I thought "yield" is at least, if not more, important than acceptance rates

 

[RUTGERS95]

BU has nothing to do with the argument, it’s a private school, they follow the a different set of rules entirely.

but you stupidly tried to use the acceptance rate as a measure. I, in kind, used it to be demonstrative of that but it's above your head apparently

you need to do better here.

I thought "yield" is at least, if not more, important than acceptance rates

it is, the schools focus heavily on this now
he was trying to make a point and failed miserably in his attempt

 

[Knight Shift]

Stevens and RPI are probably not that far off, but yeah.

Again, I am not, and I don't think anyone is saying don't go to Amherst or Middlebury...but those are very very small schools. I don't think the 7 Sisters are some NJ phenomenon.

I could also understand the kid who doesn't get into RU going OOS.

The issue is the idea that going to USCe or Tennessee over RU is brilliant...it isn't.

Will explain again, depends on the major
UT ranks 28th in Nursing- Rutgers? 59
UT also has highly ranked programs in Accounting and Engineering. The campus is beautiful.

Neighbor's kids went to USCe- apparently they gave so much money, it was cheaper than Rutgers, and they loved the experience. Sounds pretty brilliant.

 

[Section124]

Rutgers in state tuition/R&B is no longer cheap. Most other schools will match or beat. Makes sense to go OOS for most because the Rutgers campus is not so great either.

 

[Knight Shift]

Indiana has almost an 80% acceptance rate and an average SAT score about 200 points lower than Maryland and also lower than Penn State. There are select schools within Indiana that are competitive sure, but general admission is absolutely less competitive.

You basically agreed with @RUTGERS95 . He said: "IU has some of the best programs in various fields and it's a great college experience with an incredible alumni network."

This is the same exact thing I have been saying about other schools that at least one poster sees fit to look down on. And yet posters continue to think that higher SAT scores or an overall USNWR ranking should be the two criteria that matter in selecting a university. Newsflash-they are not. Families and students make different decisions for different reasons, yet that will not stop the hen house from clucking away, "But Rutgers is better, and these family are dumb or wasting their money. "

 

[RUTGERS95]

You basically agreed with @RUTGERS95 . He said: "IU has some of the best programs in various fields and it's a great college experience with an incredible alumni network."

This is the same exact thing I have been saying about other schools that at least one poster sees fit to look down on. And yet posters continue to think that higher SAT scores or an overall USNWR ranking should be the two criteria that matter in selecting a university. Newsflash-they are not. Families and students make different decisions for different reasons, yet that will not stop the hen house from clucking away, "But Rutgers is better, and these family are dumb or wasting their money. "

I'm putting one kid from IU, one from Purdue into our IB internship program (my son as well in our legal area) this year for their junior years. Both have very good with IU being elite business schools. We sadly don't even look at Rutgers for front office positions and Rutgers development of Wall St programs inroads is appalling. absolutely not what it used to be. Lots of reasons to go to Rutgers, lots of reason not to go. very frustrating because it is a great school.

Rutgers in state tuition/R&B is no longer cheap. Most other schools will match or beat. Makes sense to go OOS for most because the Rutgers campus is not so great either.

I have to agree with this. I wanted my older son to go to Rutgers as he was accepted pre-med but as he had so much Rutgers growing up, he was Rutgersd out and wanted out lol

He absolutely loves his school, best decision we made for him (he had some input but we're paying the bill so we get 51% of the decision)

 

[Knight Shift]

I'm putting one kid from IU, one from Purdue into our IB internship program (my son as well in our legal area) this year for their junior years. Both have very good with IU being elite business schools. We sadly don't even look at Rutgers for front office positions and Rutgers development of Wall St programs inroads is appalling. absolutely not what it used to be. Lots of reasons to go to Rutgers, lots of reason not to go. very frustrating because it is a great school.



I have to agree with this. I wanted my older son to go to Rutgers as he was accepted pre-med but as he had so much Rutgers growing up, he was Rutgersd out and wanted out lol

He absolutely loves his school, best decision we made for him (he had some input but we're paying the bill so we get 51% of the decision)

We don't cycle through that many new hires or summer interns, as our office is pretty small. Over the course of time, some of the people from the so-called "better" schools presented themselves as entitled because of their credentials, and they got outworked by others who had more "grit." Most recent one for us went undergrad to a school we did not know existed and a mediocre law school, and this person has been phenomenal.

Your older son sounds a lot like our youngest. He had good reason- the Ash error did him in!! On top of that, he found a small, private school in Connecticut that has an outstanding program for his major, and all of us have been thrilled with his experience, despite the additional cost. He would have been miserable at Rutgers and would not have had some of the same opportunities he got at a small school. Since we got off extremely cheap with our oldest going to Rutgers (less than $30K total over 4 years), we were fine spending the money on a private school. And we don't talk about it in line at Shop Rite, LIDL or ALDI.

 

[Jtung230]

It’s like ground hog day on this board. It’s the same topics recycled every year or couple of years.

 

[Knight Shift]

It’s like ground hog day on this board. It’s the same topics recycled every year or couple of years.

That EV thread needs to be "revived" and going again. . . .or not.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

That EV thread needs to be "revived" and going again. . . .or not.

The site is set to self destruct when the one word thread runs out of words

 

[Knight Shift]

The site is set to self destruct when the one word thread runs out of words

Wut?

 

[NotInRHouse]

Will explain again, depends on the major
UT ranks 28th in Nursing- Rutgers? 59
UT also has highly ranked programs in Accounting and Engineering. The campus is beautiful.

Neighbor's kids went to USCe- apparently they gave so much money, it was cheaper than Rutgers, and they loved the experience. Sounds pretty brilliant.

What % of students start college knowing their major? Without even looking it's safe to say to it's nowhere close to half. But then this is put out like some major phenomenon.

Pretending it is

Tenn engineering 37 in publics
Tenn accounting 30

RU engineering 25 in publics
RU accounting 23

RU USNWR 42
USCe USNWR 127 (also behind RU-N and NJIT)

Man, ShopRite must be raking it in with this "brilliance" in math.

 

[bigmatt718]

Rutgers in state tuition/R&B is no longer cheap. Most other schools will match or beat. Makes sense to go OOS for most because the Rutgers campus is not so great either.

It's a LOT harder to get into to RU-NB than it was 20 years ago as well. I doubt I get into RU-NB if I was a HS student today as opposed to the early 2000s when I was applying to colleges. Would've gone OOS myself because there's zero chance I would've gone to Rowan or Rutgers-Camden or Stockton. As far as cost goes, maybe parents are making a deal with the kids to where if they go to the cheaper option, they'll either pay for grad school or offer a down payment on a 1st house. Now dropping serious coin on a school like U of Tampa is just asinine IMO...private school without elite academics makes zero sense to me.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Rutgers in state tuition/R&B is no longer cheap. Most other schools will match or beat. Makes sense to go OOS for most because the Rutgers campus is not so great either.

"Most other schools" - evidence?

Yes, the campus is definitely a primary factor.

Especially with the culture. The kids can't figure out the RU bus, but need to explore Southern culture.

They know their full career path at 18, but are miffed by an unsightly building.

Brad and Chad are taking the Paris Metro at 18 to the Orsay, but the EE bus gets them thrown off track. Absolutely.

 

[NotInRHouse]

It's a LOT harder to get into to RU-NB than it was 20 years ago as well. I doubt I get into RU-NB if I was a HS student today as opposed to the early 2000s when I was applying to colleges. Would've gone OOS myself because there's zero chance I would've gone to Rowan or Rutgers-Camden or Stockton. As far as cost goes, maybe parents are making a deal with the kids to where if they go to the cheaper option, they'll either pay for grad school or offer a down payment on a 1st house. Now dropping serious coin on a school like U of Tampa is just asinine IMO...private school without elite academics makes zero sense to me.

A huge part of this the SEC advocates won't admit the kids they are talking about aren't getting into RU.

No one would argue against going to Vandy or Emory or Duke or GT or something.

And I definitely get going to say, UCF, over Montclair, since the cost really is pretty similar and the experience at the former is probably better along with the academics.

But what they want us to believe is that their geniuses are choosing the 127th ranked school over the 42nd when they got into both and that, is in fact, smart, because "culture" "pretty campus" "sports" blah blah, or better yet, 18 year olds are dead set on their major, which is definitely hilarious when basically all non-boomers in the US are more anti career than ever in history.

Aka Shop Rite line look at how ostentatious I can be, RU is too diverse for my kid, my kid takes limos not buses, and on. Which is what it is, but just say it.

 

[bigmatt718]

A huge part of this the SEC advocates won't admit the kids they are talking about aren't getting into RU.

No one would argue against going to Vandy or Emory or Duke or GT or something.

And I definitely get going to say, UCF, over Montclair, since the cost really is pretty similar and the experience at the former is probably better along with the academics.

But what they want us to believe is that their geniuses are choosing the 127th ranked school over the 42nd when they got into both and that, is in fact, smart, because "culture" "pretty campus" "sports" blah blah, or better yet, 18 year olds are dead set on their major, which is definitely hilarious when basically all non-boomers in the US are more anti career than ever in history.

Aka Shop Rite line look at how ostentatious I can be, RU is too diverse for my kid, my kid takes limos not buses, and on. Which is what it is, but just say it.

Exactly on the last sentence...just be honest for crying out loud lol. Also they aren't all that well off if they're shopping at Shoprite lol. True upper middle class folks shop at Wegman's or Trader Joe's or Whole Foods, despite inflation reeking havoc on food costs.

 

[mdk02]

A huge part of this the SEC advocates won't admit the kids they are talking about aren't getting into RU.

No one would argue against going to Vandy or Emory or Duke or GT or something.

And I definitely get going to say, UCF, over Montclair, since the cost really is pretty similar and the experience at the former is probably better along with the academics.

But what they want us to believe is that their geniuses are choosing the 127th ranked school over the 42nd when they got into both and that, is in fact, smart, because "culture" "pretty campus" "sports" blah blah, or better yet, 18 year olds are dead set on their major, which is definitely hilarious when basically all non-boomers in the US are more anti career than ever in history.

Aka Shop Rite line look at how ostentatious I can be, RU is too diverse for my kid, my kid takes limos not buses, and on. Which is what it is, but just say it.

"My kid takes limos not buses" Hardly a common sentiment, don't you think?

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Exactly on the last sentence...just be honest for crying out loud lol. Also they aren't all that well off if they're shopping at Shoprite lol. True upper middle class folks shop at Wegman's or Trader Joe's or Whole Foods, despite inflation wreaking havoc on food costs.

Question on that last point- if you went to a large, diverse high school in NJ, is going to a school out of state, that albeit may be less diverse, give one a different and therefore diverse experience?

 

[bigmatt718]

Question on that last point- if you went to a large, diverse high school in NJ, is going to a school out of state, that albeit may be less diverse, give one a different and therefore diverse experience?

I went to a podunk small town HS in South Jersey lol. I sure as hell did NOT go to a large, diverse HS in Jersey. Hell many kids in my HS went the community college route if they went to college at all or went to RU-Camden or Rowan so to answer your question, me getting into RU-NB had a level of prestige and a diverse experience over small town South Jersey.

 

[RUTGERS95]

We don't cycle through that many new hires or summer interns, as our office is pretty small. Over the course of time, some of the people from the so-called "better" schools presented themselves as entitled because of their credentials, and they got outworked by others who had more "grit." Most recent one for us went undergrad to a school we did not know existed and a mediocre law school, and this person has been phenomenal.

Your older son sounds a lot like our youngest. He had good reason- the Ash error did him in!! On top of that, he found a small, private school in Connecticut that has an outstanding program for his major, and all of us have been thrilled with his experience, despite the additional cost. He would have been miserable at Rutgers and would not have had some of the same opportunities he got at a small school. Since we got off extremely cheap with our oldest going to Rutgers (less than $30K total over 4 years), we were fine spending the money on a private school. And we don't talk about it in line at Shop Rite, LIDL or ALDI.

very true! in my experience, the absolute best kids by a widddddddde margin are the Northeastern kids. They are smart, hustle, come in trying to prove they're as good as Harvard and better than BU/BC. They are the absolute best, I kid you not...no pun intended lol

absolute same here with your youngest, it's about fit! I could not be happier and he can't wait to get back. I admit, love visiting him and even my wife said, 'you can't go to all the games' lol

 

[Knight Shift]

What % of students start college knowing their major? Without even looking it's safe to say to it's nowhere close to half. But then this is put out like some major phenomenon.

Pretending it is

Tenn engineering 37 in publics
Tenn accounting 30

RU engineering 25 in publics
RU accounting 23

RU USNWR 42
USCe USNWR 127 (also behind RU-N and NJIT)

Man, ShopRite must be raking it in with this "brilliance" in math.

As for RU vs. Tenn in those rankings:

Hope you do better in court arguing on behalf of your clients than you do here. Your USCe is a non-sequitur and irrelevant to what I posted. I move to strike as irrelevant.

IIRC, you have no kids. And you are going to accuse parents of children who have had many discussions with other parents of children of "pretending?"

Newsflash- yes, lots of kids know what they want to major in when going to college. 100% of our kids and their friends also knew that before attending college. And they stuck with those majors and graduated. Or maybe they pretended to do that.

 

[RUTGERS95]

It’s like ground hog day on this board. It’s the same topics recycled every year or couple of years.

well when the football team blows, the coach sucks, and we're becoming less relevant by the year, you need to find something to keep the board going. hey, at least we're all talking which is half the battle!

 

[Knight Shift]

very true! in my experience, the absolute best kids by a widddddddde margin are the Northeastern kids. They are smart, hustle, come in trying to prove they're as good as Harvard and better than BU/BC. They are the absolute best, I kid you not...no pun intended lol

absolute same here with your youngest, it's about fit! I could not be happier and he can't wait to get back. I admit, love visiting him and even my wife said, 'you can't go to all the games' lol

My sons' school won an NCAA championship while he was there. So he broke the household curse. . . .

 

[Rutgers Chris]

I went to a podunk small town HS in South Jersey lol. I sure as hell did NOT go to a large, diverse HS in Jersey. Hell many kids in my HS went the community college route if they went to college at all or went to RU-Camden or Rowan so to answer your question, me getting into RU-NB had a level of prestige and a diverse experience over small town South Jersey.

Right, so you went to a college that didn’t mirror your high schools demographics. What I’m saying is if your high school has similar demographics to Rutgers, going to one out of state that is “less diverse” still exposes you to something new. That to me isn’t people running away from Rutgers because it’s “too diverse.” Especially given they likely live in a diverse area already.

 

[Fat Koko]

This goes back a long ways and may no longer be true, but NYU used to be generous giving credits for courses taken at NJ community colleges. NJ kids would transfer over after 2 years and get the degree. Saved a hell of a lot of money.

Vermont seems to have declined in popularity, possibly because skiing is not as big a thing as it once was.

Vermont is an economic dead zone. Vermont's college age population is evaporating and the University of Vermont now gets 80% of its enrollment from other states. Colorado and Utah offer dynamic economies and skiing. Why go to school in Vermont these days.

Growing talk in Vermont about privatizing the university because it doesn't serve the state anymore.

Fortunately, Rutgers enjoys the opposite situation. New Jersey is overflowing with college-bound high schoolers, and Rutgers can fill its freshman classes with ease. This is showing up in the rankings.

 

[bigmatt718]

Vermont is an economic dead zone. Vermont's college age population is evaporating and the University of Vermont now gets 80% of its enrollment from other states. Colorado and Utah offer dynamic economies and skiing. Why go to school in Vermont these days.

Growing talk in Vermont about privatizing the university because it doesn't serve the state anymore.

Fortunately, Rutgers enjoys the opposite situation. New Jersey is overflowing with college-bound high schoolers, and Rutgers can fill its freshman classes with ease. This is showing up in the rankings.

View attachment 1338880

UVM definitely doesn't have cache anymore to say the least.

 

[Fat Koko]

UVM definitely doesn't have cache anymore to say the least.

Over the past 25 years, NJ has added 30x the population as VT and both states have the same land area. No surprise Rutgers is doing better than University of Vermont.

 

[Knight Shift]

Over the past 25 years, NJ has added 30x the population as VT and both states have the same land area. No surprise Rutgers is doing better than University of Vermont.

Close

Vermont is about 1.2 times bigger than New Jersey.​

https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/state-size-comparison/vermont-usa/new-jersey-usa

 

[mdk02]

Over the past 25 years, NJ has added 30x the population as VT and both states have the same land area. No surprise Rutgers is doing better than University of Vermont.

NJ has added 30x the population of Vermont? Vermont has a population of roughly 650k. 30x 650K is close to 20 million.

 

[Fat Koko]

NJ has added 30x the population of Vermont? Vermont has a population of roughly 650k. 30x 650K is close to 20 million.

2000
NJ 8,414,350
VT 608,827

2025
NJ 9,548,215
VT 644,663

Change
NJ 1,133,865
VT 35,836

1,133,865 / 35,836 = 31.6x

Source: US Census

 

[mdk02]

2020
NJ 8,414,350
VT 608,827

2025
NJ 9,548,215
VT 644,663

Change
NJ 1,133,865
VT 35,836

1,133,865 / 35,836 = 31.6x

Source: US Census

That's not 30x the population of Vermont.

 

[Fat Koko]

That's not 30x the population of Vermont.

30x the population growth, I could have been clearer on that.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Exactly on the last sentence...just be honest for crying out loud lol. Also they aren't all that well off if they're shopping at Shoprite lol. True upper middle class folks shop at Wegman's or Trader Joe's or Whole Foods, despite inflation reeking havoc on food costs.

You take trader Joe's out of your mouth! Lol

 

[ru66+]

There's really two main things at play here:

1. A lot of NJ kids think they're too good for Rutgers for various reasons, when in reality, the school is tremendous academically. Others just don't want to go there b/c of the campus layout, lack of sports success, not liking downtown Easton Ave, etc.

2. Conversely, a lot of kids want to go to school down south for a myriad of reasons (SEC culture, women, better weather, fanatical sports, parents drilling into their kids heads that the North sucks, etc.)

We've already told our daughter we're moving south the day she graduates HS - now, if she gets into Princeton (which is extremely unlikely to happen), or if my wife's parents get sick (they're older, so who knows what will happen), then that plan will be delayed

WTBS, she can go wherever she wants, as long as the price tag warrants the cost (e.g., Princeton for 80k yes, Syracuse for 80k year no). I do understand the shop rite thing as a lot of parents like to brag on their kids.

Not that we're better than anyone (bc were not), but I don't give a damn where other kids are going, or what other people think of my kid, as they're not paying our bills or dictating our future in any way, shape or form

It's society today putting it in these kids heads (and parents alike) that they have to do this or that to impress people. Truly weird stuff IMO

It's the bubble complex. I own a couple of apartments in the village that one of my kids live in and he and his wife would never come back to the Nassau County bubble. My other kids live in Northern Bergen County and they talk about the bubble all the time. Protected classes ,many all thinking alike, unfortunately that's not what the real world is about.Many perpetuate it by sending their kids to certain schools with certain demographics -- until reality sets in,like when corporate America down sizes. I'm lucky I don't need to escape down south even though it makes sense$ wise.

 

[NotInRHouse]

"My kid takes limos not buses" Hardly a common sentiment, don't you think?

A mild embellishment TBH. In other words- I grew up rich, so I don't worry about common people problems, like paying for college.