And I bet those with opposing view points were not ostracized or their grade impacted by that opinion.
The American Public Has Gotten the Message on College Degrees
- Thread starter PrestonyteParrot
- Start date
I couldn't tell if sarcasm or not?
I think we all agree that college should open students eyes to opposing viewpoints. I think the question comes in if all sides of a debate are accepted.
Agree. The preferred narrative can't be the only narrative and the grading power of the instructor can't be used to stifle those who want an open discussion if they want other narratives to be considered by the group.
The news bias is where i originally got the notion to ask for political leanings in this thread.
I read an interesting article once about the relative political slant of various news sources. People who lined up in that area on the scale saw those news sources as unbiased and neutral. Even if it were CNN or Fox News. "Nuetral" meant the people watching were getting told what thwy wanted to hear. Confirmation bias is the term I think.
If youre hard-core left, CNN is neutral and just telling the truth. Same for Fox on the right.
This is what I was meaning when I said that left leaning individuals may see the same topics being pushed as the right leaning individuals, but not think anything of it.
I lean more conservative and I have to say Fox is MUCH more biased than CNN. Fox is basically 23 hours of right wing ranting and outrage and 1 hour of actual news every day. CNN at least presents SOME balance of news and opinion.
I think I'm that someone noted above. And I still hold by it.
For a moment, let's discard the liberal/conservative angles.
Seems like Massachusetts and California pushed the collegiate narrative. California by establishing dozens and dozens of city/community/junior colleges around the state to make a college education accessible and affordable to most anyone in the state who could academically qualify. Noble, but then there's the tradeoff which you illustrated in your last sentence. And an Ivy League degree has lost a lot of it's luster over the past few years.
And starting 200 years before California became a state, the Massachusetts Colony encouraged literacy among all residents. And I think that is a good thing, notwithstanding a college education, even though many private institutions were established over the centuries..
Yes, college is not for everyone. But as a society, I believe we should make college available for all who have the desire and apititude for it, and trade schools for those who have an aptitude and desire to learn and practice a useful skill. And applaud the indivdual who makes the most out of whichever direction(s) they choose.
I have this notion the Fox is more Republican than right wing, if that makes sense. Party before principles kind of thing.
And that is the essence of the purpose of college: to think, analyze, and debate respectfully.
We frequently hear public figures when being interviewed acknowledging their belief that Jesus is the messiah . I think what many object to is the relentless proselytizing done by many even when turned down. I personally think that relentless proselytizing does more harm than good. And good people, regardless of faith and/or faith community, get slammed as well as a result. An athlete merely thanking Jesus for his/her success in the contest should not bother a non-Christian. No need to slam them.
I've always thought the best way to reach others with one's theology is to lead by example and live an exemplary life. I think the Salvation Army does a good job of this by reaching out to help others (regardless of their faith or no faith) in Jesus' name without judging.
The ultimate backlash from my perspective is the organization Freedom From Religion. They, too, don't get it in the context of our Constitution. The government and religious (and non-religious) organizations should have a partnership relationship, not an adversarial one. To me that means government should be supportive of all religions, and none in particular, provided that religious organizations respect the Constitution and understand that other religions are just as valid in the eyes of our government.
And that's where Freedom From Religion misses the mark. It should be freedom from harassment.
And I think thats where a lot of them are failing. We can argue over whether respectful is the best term, or open minded is, but a lot of people see a distinct lack of variety in opinions pushed.
We've gotten far away from the basics. Reading, writing and arithmetic.
Instead, we seem to have made college more and more UNaffordable.
I have my opinions on why that happened, im sure most of us do.
Both are ''Selective News Networks''.
If you want real news you have to search for it.
Complete and utter hogwash.
There is not, nor ever has been any credible, certifiable evidence to support this fringe and wild conspiracy.
In order for this to have any semblance of reality, advance information would have had to been gathered at lower levels, then work it's way up military intelligence. Along each step taking great pains to veryify such information, before finally reaching the Presidents desk. No one has ever indicated, spoken, or alluded to the fact they had advance knowledge of an imminent attack.
There were diplomatic cables indicating war with Japan was likely, but no specifics to dates or location were available.
There were also attacks by the Japanese during 12/6 & 7, on Pearl Harbor, Wake, Midway, Guam, The Philippines, Honk Kong and British Malaysia.
Both the American and British forces were caught completely by surprise. Side note, at this time the British military intelligence apparatus was far superior to ours, and they were caught completely off guard.
I suppose it depends on how "aptitude" for college is determined, and it spills over into public high school education. We all know the problems with the public school system and students being advanced along and graduated, even when barely literate. Fact of the matter is you have students graduating from high school, apparently with all the requisite credentials. Then they get to college and find out they don't know anything. Colleges, instead of keeping the bar high, have lowered the bar, creating sham courses and sham degrees...ethnic studies, gender studies, civilization studies (it seems any degree that contains the word "studies" is basically useless). But, hey, you can get into college, get a degree then complain that you racked up $100K in student loan debt but can't find a job with your folklore and mythology degree. The students are dumb, for sure, but colleges should be held liable for selling useless degrees to people who shouldn't be in college in the first place. And that's not a knock against someone saying they shouldn't be in college. You can make plenty of money with a trade...more than most college graduates will make. And you actually have a real-world skill. But society has sold this vision that everyone has to go to college or you're a failure. It's just not true.
I have a nephew in Simpsonville who graduated high school a couple years ago. He took a machining class in high school and loved it. Ended up interning his junior and senior years for a machining company. They hired him out of high school on a pretty sweet deal. He has to work there a certain number of years, but they are training him and paying for him to get his associates degree. He's 19 and already has a 401K going with the company, gets paid pretty well for a 19 year old, good benefits. He was basically set up with his career out the door of high school.
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Government Student Loan Program was the money grab forerunner to NIL for ''Institutions of Higher Learning'' and all promoted by government.
Stealing money from the government/taxpayers is now the ultimate international criminal enterprise.
Stealing money from the government/taxpayers is now the ultimate international criminal enterprise.
I don't think we were completely off guard. The problem was, we had taken steps to guard against sabotage by lining planes up wingtip to wingtip to make guarding them easier. US intelligence knew of tensions with Japan and were on guard against what they thought was going to be the biggest danger. Unfortunately, those steps made the Japanese attack much more successful than it would have been if the aircraft were dispersed as was generally done.
The idea of a major attack from the air was not something the US really put much thought into defending such an attack. Japan, to their credit, managed to cross the Pacific undetected and launch a major airstrike from carriers (something that had never been done before). In 1941, navies of the world still viewed battleships as the main weapons platforms in naval warfare. The Japanese attack was innovative and bold.
The US was "on guard", unfortunately, it was on guard against the wrong threat.
Well of course.
To get the most comprehensive history of the events that led up to and transpired on 12/6/41 one should read the book At Dawn We Slept.
Considered the most comprehensive , and thoroughly researched book on the matter.
Several hours just before the attack occurred, a radar installation on the north side of Oahu did pick up a wave of Japanese planes heading to the island. RADAR was in its infancy, and still was not considered to be reliable . When the technician notified his CO, it was dismissed for the following reason. The CO thought that what was showing up on the screen was an expected squadron of unarmed B-17 bombers flying in from the mainland.
Quickngoogle search found nothing but comments about providing scholarships. Is that what you meant?
Some of these "studies" would actually be good college courses for those who know something going in. Nothing wrong with learning about "fringe" societies.
Again, historically, college is not about job training. Sounds like your nephew is doing well. What courses will he take towards the associates? If he ends up rising in the ranks at the company or starts his own, he'll probably need to take some business courses, e.g., "Accounting 101", management courses, etc.
My wife majored in Philosophy at Georgia State. She was once hired as a legal assistant by an attorney based on that degree, because he knew that she could think, analyze, and write well.
No. In-state tuition at a state-supported school compared to an Ivy League school like Brown.
Ah, okay. I thought you were saying there was a specific tuition reduction effort.
But yeah, my kids will end up at state supported schools, barring something really odd happening.
It wasn't several hours, it was less than one hour. The planes on radar were coming from the northeast, the bombers were coming from California, northeast of Hawaii. However, since aircraft navigation was still based on dead reckoning, the B-17s could have easily missed Hawaii to the north and had to turn to the southeast to come in. The dismissal by the CO was completely understandable.
Dumbing down education is a serious problem.
Pushing a 4 year college degree for the sake of that degree without a plan is also a problem.
I've used this example before, but back when I was a high school senior, one of my classmates was accepted to a tech school and wanted to add that acceptance to our school's college wall. The guidance counselor basically denigrated it as not a big deal because it wasn't a 4 year school.
A college degree isn't the right path for everyone. You can be extremely successful in a blue collar job without a college degree. If a student doesn't have a plan to utilize his degree, he's likely better off going the tech school route and getting a good job rather than saddling himself with debt without the plan to pay it off.
I disagree completely that someone can't have a valid opinion without an education in that field. I have a pair of degrees from USC, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore someone's take on a subject solely because he or she doesn't have a degree in the field. I'll judge the merits of what he has to say, not his resume.
Larry King did not attend college, but he was well-read and conversant in many subjects. Depends on the person.
If you are looking at a college degree as part of targeting a graduate professional school, e.g., law, medicine, etc., then yes, earn an appropriate undergraduate degree to get you there. Oddly enough, degrees in math or the humanities are excellent for pre-law; you'll learn to write and analyze, which are crucial skills needed to succeed in Law School. It could help towards an MBA too.
When I enrolled at Davidson College in the fall of 1977, there were two options in Math:
- A course in Statistics and Computers for non-science majors to help meet the scuence requirement
- Calculus I
When I arrived on the USC campus in the summer of 1979, I noted courses in College Algebra. Hmmmm.....
Absolutely college isn't for everyone. And we need to drop the stigma. Nonethless, as others too have stated, anybody coming out of high school needs to be competent in the "three Rs."
...and that's your right to do so. However, I have that same right to ignore them. I just believe that too many people want to try to do things without going through the appropriate steps anymore. To me listening to people that are uneducated on the subject(s) they are talking about is like paying a contractor with no license. You can't get mad when they lead you astray.
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There is a big difference in being uneducated on a subject and not having formal training in that subject. I have seen a lot of contractors with licenses absolutely butcher a job and I've seen a lot of trade people with no formal training in a craft do absolutely perfect work.
Being educated and being knowledgeable are not always the same thing.
...and that is okay. I need to know where that informal training came from? What are the Certifications or Accreditations of that training. I am just not going to accept someone telling me things "off the cuff" with no backing behind it just because it sounds good to me.
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This.
Facts are facts regardless of the degree (or lack of) held by those who speak them.
I think we agree...I'm not saying we should accept something because it sounds good, I'm saying judge the merits of what is being said. Someone with the credentials doesn't necessarily mean they know what they're talking about. There are plenty of doctors or other professionals you wouldn't want to take advice from, for example.