***CC22 and the Fever mega thread***

[Hawksfor3]

She wants to be Caitlin Clark so bad. Lol.

Following her poor 3 point shooting, she needs all the practice she can get. Also, in today's men's and women's games, being a stretch five is needed. In the NBA, you almost certainly have to be able to stretch the floor at the five position.

 

[Franisdaman]

 

[Franisdaman]

 

[Franisdaman]

 

[Franisdaman]

1 out of 5 of Angel's shots are either an air ball or are blocked.

Watch:

 

[Franisdaman]

 

[Franisdaman]

 

[twindman]

I'd be careful with the "not even close" stuff.

CC is a great passer. And her gravity on the court, alone, makes life easier for her mates on offense.

But quite often, she makes life hell for her teammates, on D.

Jacking up 30 ft misses also makes life very difficult for her teammates.

PB is one hell of a team player. She sets her teammates up. Is obviously more defensively friendly. And her ability to get her own, late clock, makes life so much easier for her mates.

PB's mates also seem to naturally gravitate towards/accept her leadership. She's emotionally steady, and has a natural winning confidence.

No doubt, overall, both players make their mates a lot better

I wonder how good Page would be if she was getting doubled everytime she touches the ball, like happens to CC.

 

[eyesofhawk]

PB is not the defensive player you’re making her out to be.

Not easily better on D than CC?

Stop.

You must be another one of those guys that thinks they've read something different than they actually have

 

[Gonzo_Bloor]

This. Paige is an above average defender, but she's nowhere near as special as her reputation would lead you to believe.

Currently PB ranks 96th in the league in steals at 0.4/game, CC is 22nd at 1.1/game. PB is 65th in blocks at 0.3/game, CC is again 22nd at 0.9/game.

They're grasping. Lol.

 

[Franisdaman]

 

[Gonzo_Bloor]

I actually think the two stats to the left of that one are even funnier. She's shooting <42% with most all of her shots on the season happening from point blank range. Lol. And how does a power forward who doesn't usually bring the ball up and plays mostly in the low post average 4 turnovers per game? Lol.

 

[Legend12]

This. Paige is an above average defender, but she's nowhere near as special as her reputation would lead you to believe.

I don't think anyone has claimed PB is a great defender, but when compared to CC she's considerably better, and a lot of that is just from effort. Now if CC plays like she did last night and commits to the defensive end of the floor then the difference would likely be negligible.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Currently PB ranks 96th in the league in steals at 0.4/game, CC is 22nd at 1.1/game. PB is 65th in blocks at 0.3/game, CC is again 22nd at 0.9/game.

They're grasping. Lol.

Steals and blocks are not the strongest indicators of good defenders. Especially steals

 

[Legend12]

I actually think the two stats to the left of that one are even funnier. She's shooting <42% with most all of her shots on the season happening from point blank range. Lol. And how does a power forward who doesn't usually bring the ball up and plays mostly in the low post average 4 turnovers per game? Lol.

I saw a stat that at one point she was the only starter (or some qualifier) to have not made a shot from outside 5 feet.

She's made a 3 so that stat is no longer accurate, but her form and results on anything other than a layup is laughably terrible, and even her layups often aren't much better.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Steals and blocks are not the strongest indicators of good defenders. Especially steals

Spoiler

 

[Cidhawkeye]

Read better, you raging idiot.

At this point, given your continuous imposition of a mischaracterization, you are the one who is essentially lying.

As I said, you began embarrassing yourself a while ago

It is a tough scenario to break down.

You lied….. I didn’t

the beauty is that your lie is documented by what you typed. Feel free to document where I have been inaccurate……. I am a patient person. I eagerly await something other than …… ‘because I think so’ from you

knowing that you can’t produce this. Facts are your enemy. You are a liar. It is in print.

 

[eyesofhawk]

It is a tough scenario to break down.

You lied….. I didn’t

the beauty is that your lie is documented by what you typed. Feel free to document where I have been inaccurate……. I am a patient person. I eagerly await something other than …… ‘because I think so’ from you

knowing that you can’t produce this. Facts are your enemy. You are a liar. It is in print.

No, I haven't done anything close to lie.

But you calling someone who hasn't lied, a liar, makes you a liar. Not difficult to understand.

You and I might not do very well together in person. I don't appreciate being called a liar. And I've asked you to stop.

Damn right it's all documented in print. So no, I will not be explaining it to you again.

I've already done that, in completely legitimate fashion, many times. And really, very little, to none of it, was that confusing in the first place.

Even if I had lied, you don't seem to understand that arguing with someone about that person's own words, thoughts, and intentions, is an argument you CAN NEVER WIN, as long as that person is able to produce any type of reasonable clarification, at all.

The best you can ever do in this case, is accuse someone of being a liar. I truly feel sorry for you. And I can think of very little that's more embarrassing than arguing with someone else about that person's intentions behind their OWN words.

But keep the merry-go-round spinning, by repeating the exact same thing for a few more days, if you wish. Wouldn't be the first time, for you

 

[eyesofhawk]

I don't think anyone has claimed PB is a great defender, but when compared to CC she's considerably better, and a lot of that is just from effort. Now if CC plays like she did last night and commits to the defensive end of the floor then the difference would likely be negligible.

The gap would narrow, for sure.

But to me, PB's greater size and athletiscm will always give her both a higher floor and higher ceiling, than CC as a defender

 

[eyesofhawk]

Spoiler

Not sure what you mean.

I've always laughed at people that equate steals with good defenders. There isn't nearly the correlation that people believe there to be. As quite often, players that get a lot of steals gamble too much, which too often has them out of position/giving up numbers.

Iverson got a ton of steals. But his defense absolutely gave Coach Brown fits, as often his ball containment wasn't nearly solid enough.

As for blocks, when it comes to PG's it's pretty much an irrelevant stat.

Those who simply can't accept that CC is a bad defender, and try to argue for her defense in any way, say all that needs to be said about the levels of absurdity that some CC fans can reach

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Not sure what you mean.

I've always laughed at people that equate steals with good defenders. There isn't nearly the correlation that people believe there to be. As quite often, players that get a lot of steals gamble too much, which too often has them out of position/giving up numbers.

Iverson got a ton of steals. But his defense absolutely gave Coach Brown fits, as often his ball containment wasn't nearly solid enough.

As for blocks, when it comes to PG's it's pretty much an irrelevant stat.

Those who simply can't accept that CC is a bad defender, and try to argue for her defense in any way, say all that needs to be said about the levels of absurdity that some CC fans can reach

Spoiler

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

@eyesofhawk another laughing emoji like.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

[Ludd]

This. Paige is an above average defender, but she's nowhere near as special as her reputation would lead you to believe.

There aren’t any really good on ball defenders in the W…the ones who are considered to be are the ones who get away with grabbing and holding. Raven is supposed to be a great defender and she can’t stay in front of anyone. The women’s game is different in that respect. I saw it firsthand as I coached both men’s and women’s at different times throughout my life.

 

[Ludd]

1 out of 5 of Angel's shots are either an air ball or are blocked.

Watch:

Some coach or coaches did her a great disservice throughout her early years in not teaching her how to shoot underneath properly…there’s no reason someone her height should get blocked all the time.

 

[Ludd]

Not easily better on D than CC?

Stop.

You must be another one of those guys that thinks they've read something different than they actually have

Paige is a better on ball defender (but not by that much) and Clark is a better off ball defender. Neither are good attack defenders.

 

[Ludd]

I don't think anyone has claimed PB is a great defender, but when compared to CC she's considerably better, and a lot of that is just from effort. Now if CC plays like she did last night and commits to the defensive end of the floor then the difference would likely be negligible.

Maybe marginally better but not considerably better.

 

[Ludd]

Steals and blocks are not the strongest indicators of good defenders. Especially steals

They are of off ball defenders, which is a pretty important part of defense as well. Defense is a team effort.

 

[Ludd]

Not sure what you mean.

I've always laughed at people that equate steals with good defenders. There isn't nearly the correlation that people believe there to be. As quite often, players that get a lot of steals gamble too much, which too often has them out of position/giving up numbers.

Iverson got a ton of steals. But his defense absolutely gave Coach Brown fits, as often his ball containment wasn't nearly solid enough.

As for blocks, when it comes to PG's it's pretty much an irrelevant stat.

Those who simply can't accept that CC is a bad defender, and try to argue for her defense in any way, say all that needs to be said about the levels of absurdity that some CC fans can reach

Or they’re really good at reading passing lanes and anticipating what’s happening. I don’t see Clark gambling too much when I watch her. Those who argue that’s she’s so terrible is all that needs to be said about the absurdity of some that try to bring her down.

 

[TJ8869]

l

I saw a stat that at one point she was the only starter (or some qualifier) to have not made a shot from outside 5 feet.

She's made a 3 so that stat is no longer accurate, but her form and results on anything other than a layup is laughably terrible, and even her layups often aren't much better.

This is/was correct. About a week ago against Portland, in the seventh game of the season, she made an 8-foot shot in the lane. It was the first time this season that she made a shot from beyond five feet. In the next game she finally made her first 3-pointer of the year.

When she left Maryland she talked about how LSU was going to help her develop into a stretch four. Four years later she is not one iota better at shooting. The problem with her shooting threes is not just that it’s most likely going to miss, but that Atlanta’s best rebounder is 23 feet away when it does.

So as an Indiana Fever fan, I hope Angel never gives up trying to be a stretch four.

 

[TJ8869]

But to me, PB's greater size and athletiscm will always give her both a higher floor and higher ceiling, than CC as a defender

PB is officially listed as 6’0”, 160lb and CC is officially listed as 6’0”, 157lb.

It sounds to me like the key to Clark becoming a better defender is a heaping plate of pasta.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Paige is a better on ball defender (but not by that much) and Clark is a better off ball defender. Neither are good attack defenders.

But as we've seen, CC can be an actual liability on the ball. And on the ball is by far the most important defensive category

 

[Legend12]

l

This is/was correct. About a week ago against Portland, in the seventh game of the season, she made an 8-foot shot in the lane. It was the first time this season that she made a shot from beyond five feet. In the next game she finally made her first 3-pointer of the year.

When she left Maryland she talked about how LSU was going to help her develop into a stretch four. Four years later she is not one iota better at shooting. The problem with her shooting threes is not just that it’s most likely going to miss, but that Atlanta’s best rebounder is 23 feet away when it does.

She's gotten worse...her form is so odd, I can't believe anyone is coaching her. Her right leg flexes and steps and then she shoots it left handed.

 

[eyesofhawk]

They are of off ball defenders, which is a pretty important part of defense as well. Defense is a team effort.

Defense absolutely is a team effort.

But steals aren't necessarily an indicator of good off-ball D, as again, some of those players are gambling too much

 

[eyesofhawk]

Or they’re really good at reading passing lanes and anticipating what’s happening. I don’t see Clark gambling too much when I watch her. Those who argue that’s she’s so terrible is all that needs to be said about the absurdity of some that try to bring her down.

Yes, some players with high steal numbers are good defenders. I've only said that steals isn't the best indicator.

No, CC doesn't gamble too much. But again, arguing for CC's overall D, says it all.

In no way have I tried to bring CC down. I'm only commenting on the fans that live in fantasy land, when it comes to her

 

[Legend12]

Maybe marginally better but not considerably better.

Yes, considerably.

 

[Legend12]

There aren’t any really good on ball defenders in the W

 

[eyesofhawk]

PB is officially listed as 6’0”, 160lb and CC is officially listed as 6’0”, 157lb.

It sounds to me like the key to Clark becoming a better defender is a heaping plate of pasta.

That's funny.

Ok, thank you for the correction. Paige had seemed a bit taller to me

 

[Cidhawkeye]

No, I haven't done anything close to lie.

But you calling someone who hasn't lied, a liar, makes you a liar. Not difficult to understand.

You and I might not do very well together in person. I don't appreciate being called a liar. And I've asked you to stop.

Damn right it's all documented in print. So no, I will not be explaining it to you again.

I've already done that, in completely legitimate fashion, many times. And really, very little, to none of it, was that confusing in the first place.

Even if I had lied, you don't seem to understand that arguing with someone about that person's own words, thoughts, and intentions, is an argument you CAN NEVER WIN, as long as that person is able to produce any type of reasonable clarification, at all.

The best you can ever do in this case, is accuse someone of being a liar. I truly feel sorry for you. And I can think of very little that's more embarrassing than arguing with someone else about that person's intentions behind their OWN words.

But keep the merry-go-round spinning, by repeating the exact same thing for a few more days, if you wish. Wouldn't be the first time, for you

When your only defense is

‘because it makes sense to eyes’

and I have what you actually typed, not what you meant but what you typed it is pretty easy.

now go back to debating defense and how 6’ 160 is so much different than 6’ 157.

 

[BunchofAholes]

CC is a great player, but one of the most histrionic professional athletes I've ever seen. Can she not throw her hands up, clap aggressively, or gesture wildly after the end of a play? Just once? It's really getting old.

Reese may be the most unathletic and awkward-looking "professional" athlete I've ever seen. There are some smooth players in the league, but she's the poster child for why it's a bit of a joke. Well, her and the officials.

 

[eyesofhawk]

When your only defense is

‘because it makes sense to eyes’

and I have what you actually typed, not what you meant but what you typed it is pretty easy.

now go back to debating defense and how 6’ 160 is so much different than 6’ 157.

Weeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another time around the merry-go-round. I knew you had it in you