Ex PSU player Justin Williams with Ziegler
- Thread starter NoBareFeet
- Start date
Nice try. Announcement that Curley and Schultz were indicted took place on 11/1/2011. Joe didn't pass way until 1/22/2012.
That's a good point. My thinking is that these were troubled kids and it would be easy for things to go bad. In a group setting you have other people who can stop bad behavior from the kid or from the adult. You also have witnesses to get the story straight if one accuses the other of wrongdoing. IMO neither TSM or PSU should have exposed themselves to the risk of one on one supervision.
I'm not talking about a group showering together. I remember being along in the shower with the scout leader. I also remember being alone in the shower with a coach. It was just a matter of who was coming and going at the time. I did say that others were in the general area. It wasn't nighttime where we were the only two in the building.
PSU wasn't involved in Jerry taking the kid in question out on his own. Wouldn't surprise me if TSM wasn't either. That latter could have codified restrictions, but I'm not sure they would have helped.
They wouldn't have indicted Joe even if he lived due for the same reason the other two weren't
McQueary isn't the villain of the story. Sandusky is. He's just the scapegoat.
I think it's odd any child was alone in shower with a coach or "scout leader" I played hockey at a high level for years and not once was a coach ever alone with a player in the shower. I dont even remember a coach ever showering around us until I played Junior Hockey from 17-
It was a mix...they were hit with perjury and one count each in 2011. Then, they and Spanier were hit with many counts post-Freeh report in 2012. There is no telling if Joe would have ultimately been charged in that 2012 wave (they overcharged the other 3 in my opinion, so no telling if they would have gone after Joe too).
They were not charging Joe. That would have risked them losing their star witness. The clowns in the AG's office knew that the spectacle of prosecuting him had the potential of bringing the whole house down.
Just an aside, but I wouldn't believe V #1 if he told me the sun was going to come up in the morning. His mother either.
If everyone on this thread's life depended on him being truthful, they wouldn't either.
If everyone on this thread's life depended on him being truthful, they wouldn't either.
Just so we get the facts straight, this was a 14 year old teenager who was basically living at the Sandusky house. He flat out said nothing happened. This same young man invited Jerry to stand in as his dad for senior night, invited Jerry and Dottie to his wedding, and drove 8 hours unsolicited to Jerry’s mom’s funeral years after alleged incident. He was Jerry’s biggest supporter until money became available years later. Also, Jerry always denied saying he wished he was dead and there is no recording of it. The narrative you paint changes with real facts…..
McQueary was inconsistent about his story. I think part of the reason is that he didn't want to be accused of not doing enough to stop JS from assaulting the kid so he started covering his own rear end. MM didn't sexually assault kids but I have trouble thinking of him as the good guy in this saga.
MM could have taken his story to authorities if he really thought it was sexual assault. His Dad and Dranov could have also pushed him to do that.
I have a friend whose older brother sexually assaulted her regularly when she was a young child. When she got married in her 30s, she had that same brother walk her down the aisle in place of her deceased father. This is not such an outlier.
Keeping in mind of course that every “fact” you’ve presented came from Ziegler’s speculation. It amazes me that something like testimony from multiple witnesses about Jerry saying he wanted to kill himself can’t be believed (even when Jerry didn’t really dispute it), but every word Ziegler says is taken as gospel. Guess that’s what those with an “open mind” do to process information.
Does anyone remember the MOAT (mother of all threads) on the old Tom BWI board?
Thousands of posts including veiled ones from some of the attorneys who fabricated stories and coached their youthful clients about what to say in exchange for $$
Thousands of posts including veiled ones from some of the attorneys who fabricated stories and coached their youthful clients about what to say in exchange for $$
Using that logic...Joe could have as well
No one said he's the hero. He's just not the villain.
Although had he done less Sandusky might still be abusing children.
People want to paint MM as the villain because they believe Joe is the victim. He isn't.
Allegedly...no attorney working the case is saying that. You realize nothing is anonymous righ??
And all attorneys "coach" clients. Do you think anyone has ever presented testimony without being prepared.
Even for simple civil cases in the corporate world clients "rehearsal" for days or even months.
I think it's adorable people think an attorney is going to admit on a message board he had someone fabricate a story.
Good news. You can stop being incensed. It was just Jerry in the shower with Allan Myers. Not a pedophile.
Allan Myers died recently, by the way. Hell will be hot for him.
No physical evidence.
No porn.
No abuse from fellow inmates.
No confession.
No divorce.
I'd like to ask how common one of these items is in a pedophile case, let alone for ALL OF THEM to be true. Then you have:
Recanted testimony by 2 "victims"
No victim pointed out Jerry's lack of balls.
AG email acknowledging to Mike that the GJ presentment was wrong but told him not to say anything.
Mike admitting to Franco and Justin Williams he didn't see abuse at Lasch.
Probability that Mike didn't report what he saw to Joe until 2 months after.
Tainted jury pool.
Every "victim" did a 180 on their original account.
That is just a small selection of things that stink in this case. Put all that together, and you have an innocent guy in prison.
Of course Joe could have reported this to outside authorities. He might have done that if he knew the extend of JS's crimes.
I consider MM a villain because he wasn't clear when he told others about what he "experienced" and his story was inconsistent. Of course he wasn't a villain like JS but IMO he was hardly a hero.
Joe's reputation was ruined and he died with the pain of what happened to the program. I think he was clearly a victim. You could say the same about C&S but maybe they deserved what they went outside university policy and handled this on the side.
Not sure that I'd characterize McQueary as a villain. Have a lot of other words I could use, but we'd be here all day.
Here is another head-scratcher. We are told that McQueary discussed the shower incident with his father and Dr. Dranov on the night of. McQueary maintains that he spared them the details (the whys and wherefores on that could fill a small book). So why, of all people, did they tell him to go to Joe about it?
And that was just that night. Does anybody really believe he didn't discuss it during subsequent visits with his family?
You dont have to be a hero not to be a villain
Joe wasn't a victim...that mentality is why people attack our fan base.
I think it's fair to call somebody a victim if they're wrongly accused, has their reputation destroyed,, loses their job, etc
I think the players who were stripped of their ability to play in bowl games were victims. I think the loyal fans who alumni who had the their university smeared are victims.
When you have children that were abused calling Paterno a victim is a hard sell
Paterno met his legal obligation but he acknowledged with hindsight he wished he had done more. I'm sure many wish the same.
I dont know what you think he was wrongly accused of though...people think he should have done more. You can state he was a scapegoat but he also wouldn't have been in that situation had he retired when he needed to
Calling the players/fans victims in this instance would be like calling me a victim of the house fire that happened at the other end of our street...they lost their house and pets, while I had to deal with the annoying smell of smoke and extra traffic for a few hours.