Kentucky basketball pride gone?

[UKreturntogreatness]

I of course hope we get Milan. But, there was the day where Kentucky wasn't held so hostage or looked foolish with recruiting like it has now occurred. If you don't act elite are you?

We have been played by some recruits in the Cal era of course, or before, and it happens. But, why is our recruiting so public that we end up looking like fools with the whiffs? St. Johns landed Yessoufou right after he withdrew without any fanfare. We thought we were going to get Freeman and again without much attention another St. Johns commit. Of course Stokes was the most public recruiting for Kentucky where we looked beyond foolish to where he landed instead.

At what point can Kentucky be the elite landing place as in the past? I know the easy answer is the coach. Personally, I would still hire an assistant like J. Crawford (despite not landing Stokes) or someone similar who is that well connected. In fact, the money being mentioned for Milan would be better served long-term paying a top assistant coach like Crawford or a name, etc.

In any event, in my view to be elite you have to risk acting the same and not look like we are at present.....desperate.

 

[RunninRichie]

All this goes away with a winning coach. Michigan won 8 games with Juwan Howard. Then won the title 2 years later.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

Look at who's in charge. Would you wanna ride shotgun if Mr Magoo is behind the wheel?

 

[CELTICAT]

Don’t conflate loss of pride with simply having a coach that’s in over his head. We’re still a proud program. We still have more titles than any other program besides UCLA. We still have a ridiculous amount of SEC titles compared to the rest of the conference. We still have more wins than any other program. Still have a boat load of pro players with finger prints all over the NBA playoffs.

Pride is not at issue and if it were you wouldn’t have a huge percentage of the fanbase ready to move on from the current coach.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

Don’t conflate loss of pride with simply having a coach that’s in over his head. We’re still a proud program. We still have more titles than any other program besides UCLA. We still have a ridiculous amount of SEC titles compared to the rest of the conference. We still have more wins than any other program. Still have a boat load of pro players with finger prints all over the NBA playoffs.

Pride is not at issue and if it were you wouldn’t have a huge percentage of the fanbase ready to move on from the current coach.

NBA western conference finals. Game 7. 2 nights ago.

Reigning MVP SGA.
De'Aaron Fox, 2nd best player on a finals team.
Cason Wallace and Keldon Johnson dominated the 4th quarter of that game.

The problem is that recruits are expecting that UK...and then in walks Pope, Fox and Keegan.

 

[Jeff Hoyt]

The answer is pretty obvious. The game is completely different now. Every top recruit has a vested interest in getting Kentucky involved, as this boosts what they can command in NIL money. That was not a part of the equation before. And I do not think anyone seriously believes SGA, Fox, Johnson and Wallace are in the NBA because of our old "run, run, run" coach, do they?

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

The answer is pretty obvious. The game is completely different now. Every top recruit has a vested interest in getting Kentucky involved, as this boosts what they can command in NIL money. That was not a part of the equation before. And I do not think anyone seriously believes SGA, Fox, Johnson and Wallace are in the NBA because of our old "run, run, run" coach, do they?

That's not the point.

 

[Bleedin Blue in Ohio]

NBA western conference finals. Game 7. 2 nights ago.

Reigning MVP SGA.
De'Aaron Fox, 2nd best player on a finals team.
Cason Wallace and Keldon Johnson dominated the 4th quarter of that game.

The problem is that recruits are expecting that UK...and then in walks Pope, Fox and Keegan.

As a UK fan I do not care what achievements they have in the NBA. I am glad they are doing well but it does nothing for UK. If success in the next level meant something, then Calipari would have won more Nattie's during his time at UK. In Football Michigan should have been the best team ever if Brady's success in the NFL mattered. Michigan did not win it all until after Brady retired.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

As a UK fan I do not care what achievements they have in the NBA. I am glad they are doing well but it does nothing for UK. If success in the next level meant something, then Calipari would have won more Nattie's during his time at UK. In Football Michigan should have been the best team ever if Brady's success in the NFL mattered. Michigan did not win it all until after Brady retired.

It doesn't matter whether you care or I care or anyone here cares. It's about getting elite players to come here.

 

[NociHTTP]

The answer is pretty obvious. The game is completely different now. Every top recruit has a vested interest in getting Kentucky involved, as this boosts what they can command in NIL money. That was not a part of the equation before. And I do not think anyone seriously believes SGA, Fox, Johnson and Wallace are in the NBA because of our old "run, run, run" coach, do they?

A big part of it is that both Cal and Pitino, in their prime years, right now at UK, would not have this issue. They would have recruits salivating to sign and afraid that if they didn't they lose out on something great. No so with Clappy Polly Tich

 

[UKJenning]

All this goes away with a winning coach. Michigan won 8 games with Juwan Howard. Then won the title 2 years later.

Spot on! We need to hire a good coach.

The Pope experiment needs to end March of 2027.

 

[CatManFromCa]

I of course hope we get Milan. But, there was the day where Kentucky wasn't held so hostage or looked foolish with recruiting like it has now occurred. If you don't act elite are you?

We have been played by some recruits in the Cal era of course, or before, and it happens. But, why is our recruiting so public that we end up looking like fools with the whiffs? St. Johns landed Yessoufou right after he withdrew without any fanfare. We thought we were going to get Freeman and again without much attention another St. Johns commit. Of course Stokes was the most public recruiting for Kentucky where we looked beyond foolish to where he landed instead.

At what point can Kentucky be the elite landing place as in the past? I know the easy answer is the coach. Personally, I would still hire an assistant like J. Crawford (despite not landing Stokes) or someone similar who is that well connected. In fact, the money being mentioned for Milan would be better served long-term paying a top assistant coach like Crawford or a name, etc.

In any event, in my view to be elite you have to risk acting the same and not look like we are at present.....desperate.

Agree 100%! At this point it feels like all we do is drive up NIL numbers for other schools. We’re not closing, we’re not intimidating anyone, we’re just the program agents use to inflate the market. I still hope we get Milan, but man… it’s hard watching Kentucky go from the place everyone wanted to be to the place everyone uses.

 

[Bleedin Blue in Ohio]

It doesn't matter whether you care or I care or anyone here cares. It's about getting elite players to come here.

Who was the last elite player to come to UK? Maxie?

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

A big part of it is that both Cal and Pitino, in their prime years, right now at UK, would not have this issue. They would have recruits salivating to sign and afraid that if they didn't they lose out on something great. No so with Clappy Polly Tich

Correct

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

Who was the last elite player to come to UK? Maxie?

idk

Cason Wallace
Oscar Tschiebwe
Reed Sheppard
Rob Dillingham

 

[20MRoster]

NBA western conference finals. Game 7. 2 nights ago.

Reigning MVP SGA.
De'Aaron Fox, 2nd best player on a finals team.
Cason Wallace and Keldon Johnson dominated the 4th quarter of that game.

The problem is that recruits are expecting that UK...and then in walks Pope, Fox and Keegan.

Another way to look at it is the "haters" want THAT UK that you described, while the "pumpers" look at a team with McBride, Wilkins, Morton level players and says that's a good team. It's impossible seeing eye to eye when the levels are just so different.

 

[Grevey1975]

We can blame NIl,MIL,SOB..or whatever.The bottom line is Pope is not closing these guys for whatever reason. And his stubbornness not to hire a GM is beyond inexcusable.

 

[Wildcat_in_DC]

in the modern era, outside a 10 year run by cal and a 2-3 year run by pitino kentucky hasnt really been an elite landing place for talent. it shouldnt be this bad....thats because of pope.

 

[20MRoster]

The answer is pretty obvious. The game is completely different now. Every top recruit has a vested interest in getting Kentucky involved, as this boosts what they can command in NIL money. That was not a part of the equation before. And I do not think anyone seriously believes SGA, Fox, Johnson and Wallace are in the NBA because of our old "run, run, run" coach, do they?

Fox and Wallace maybe not -- they were high 5 stars. Probably even Pope gets them to the NBA. Johnson and especially SGA were not ranked that high. Cal specifically sought them out. Herro and Booker are also 4 stars that proved Cal's eye for talent.

Remember that Pat Riley commented that he preferred to draft Cal's players due to the pro prep they got.

A lot of hate goes to Cal for results on the floor, and that's very valid -- his main priority should have been to win games for UK. However, NOBODY can deny that he is by far the best coach at developing pro talent and probably one of the best eyes for talent in history.

Could Pope have gotten Reed Sheppard drafted #3? I don't think you're being honest if you say Yes.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

We can blame NIl,MIL,SOB..or whatever.The bottom line is Pope is not closing these guys for whatever reason. And his stubbornness not to hire a GM is beyond inexcusable.

In March UK hired Keegan Brown as director of Roster Management.
Per a quick Google search, this job "functions essentially like a professional sports General Manager, handling the logistics of team construction, scholarship/salary caps, transfer portal evaluations, and scouting analytics."

tl/dr we have a GM! he just sucks

 

[20MRoster]

In March UK hired Keegan Brown as director of Roster Management.
Per a quick Google search, this job "functions essentially like a professional sports General Manager, handling the logistics of team construction, scholarship/salary caps, transfer portal evaluations, and scouting analytics."

tl/dr we have a GM! he just sucks

"Here's 10 stats showing why you don't need good players to win. Jerone Morton for life"

 

[Grevey1975]

In March UK hired Keegan Brown as director of Roster Management.
Per a quick Google search, this job "functions essentially like a professional sports General Manager, handling the logistics of team construction, scholarship/salary caps, transfer portal evaluations, and scouting analytics."

tl/dr we have a GM! he just sucks

No doubt and probably one of his buddies as well..Good Grief what a nightmare this offseason has been

 

[PastorofMuppets82]

Didn't Pope basically say we have a "4 Headed GM", like four people doing the jobs that essentially 1 GM would do. I believe it was in the timeframe when he asked BBN to ask him questions and he came back with a few chosen questions to answer.

Edited: Found it.
Kentucky's 4-Person Front Office
Pope split the General Manager duties to cover all bases of roster management and compliance: [1, 2, 3, 4]

• Keegan Brown: Focuses on data analysis and roster construction.
• Nick Robinson: Handles salary cap strategy and roster management.
• Kevin Sergent: Manages compliance, contracts, and legal language as the senior associate athletic director.
• Kim Shelton: Oversees Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) contracts and corporate partnerships.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

No doubt and probably one of his buddies as well..Good Grief what a nightmare this offseason has been

Yes they have a history together. Keegan helped Pope assemble his BYU teams.

 

[Grevey1975]

Didn't Pope basically say we have a "4 Headed GM", like four people doing the jobs that essentially 1 GM would do. I believe it was in the timeframe when he asked BBN to ask him questions and he came back with a few chosen questions to answer.

Edited: Found it.
Kentucky's 4-Person Front Office
Pope split the General Manager duties to cover all bases of roster management and compliance: [1, 2, 3, 4]

• Keegan Brown: Focuses on data analysis and roster construction.
• Nick Robinson: Handles salary cap strategy and roster management.
• Kevin Sergent: Manages compliance, contracts, and legal language as the senior associate athletic director.
• Kim Shelton: Oversees Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) contracts and corporate partnerships.

Didn't Pope basically say we have a "4 Headed GM", like four people doing the jobs that essentially 1 GM would do. I believe it was in the timeframe when he asked BBN to ask him questions and he came back with a few chosen questions to answer.

Edited: Found it.
Kentucky's 4-Person Front Office
Pope split the General Manager duties to cover all bases of roster management and compliance: [1, 2, 3, 4]

• Keegan Brown: Focuses on data analysis and roster construction.
• Nick Robinson: Handles salary cap strategy and roster management.
• Kevin Sergent: Manages compliance, contracts, and legal language as the senior associate athletic director.
• Kim Shelton: Oversees Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) contracts and corporate partnerships.

More like the 3 stooges plus 1

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

Didn't Pope basically say we have a "4 Headed GM", like four people doing the jobs that essentially 1 GM would do. I believe it was in the timeframe when he asked BBN to ask him questions and he came back with a few chosen questions to answer.

Edited: Found it.
Kentucky's 4-Person Front Office
Pope split the General Manager duties to cover all bases of roster management and compliance: [1, 2, 3, 4]

• Keegan Brown: Focuses on data analysis and roster construction.
• Nick Robinson: Handles salary cap strategy and roster management.
• Kevin Sergent: Manages compliance, contracts, and legal language as the senior associate athletic director.
• Kim Shelton: Oversees Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) contracts and corporate partnerships.

too many cooks

 

[Bleedin Blue in Ohio]

idk

Cason Wallace
Oscar Tschiebwe
Reed Sheppard
Rob Dillingham

I think Oscar is the best player to suit up for UK in this decade. Followed closely by Otega Oweh.

Oscar and Oweh won SEC tourney games and NCAA tourney games because of their play. Sheppard got his jock handed to him by Jack Goecke. Shepard, Dilly, and Wallace were nice players at UK but did not really do much wearing the blue and white in the long run. They did not impact the program. I think Oscar moved the needle and the team won games because of his play. I think Oweh's play was the reason the Cats won games. The others will be known for their achievement elsewhere but not at UK.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

I think Oscar is the best player to suit up for UK in this decade. Followed closely by Otega Oweh.

Oscar and Oweh won SEC tourney games and NCAA tourney games because of their play. Sheppard got his jock handed to him by Jack Goecke. Shepard, Dilly, and Wallace were nice players at UK but did not really do much wearing the blue and white in the long run. They did not impact the program. I think Oscar moved the needle and the team won games because of his play. I think Oweh's play was the reason the Cats won games. The others will be known for their achievement elsewhere but not at UK.

ok
Dude I just want the best players to come here. I don't know what you want me to say.
Cal's methods weren't working anymore but I'll take em all day over whatever the hell this is we got going on now

 

[Dr.LutherSan]

Another way to look at it is the "haters" want THAT UK that you described, while the "pumpers" look at a team with McBride, Wilkins, Morton level players and says that's a good team. It's impossible seeing eye to eye when the levels are just so different.

Morton wouldn't crack the rotation under previous coaches or other elite programs. Yet, given that he's a homegrown product and "understands the tradition", there are some in the fanbase that believe he will make a significant contribution to wherever they have moved the goalpost since Mark Pope was hired.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

Morton wouldn't crack the rotation under previous coaches or other elite programs. Yet, given that he's a homegrown product and "understands the tradition", there are some in the fanbase that believe he will make a significant contribution to wherever they have moved the goalpost since Mark Pope was hired.

Mark Pope (April 2024): "When Mitch called me and talked to me about being the head coach here at Kentucky, I understand the assignment. We are here to win banners. We're here to win banners in Nashville, because you guys turn out in Nashville like nobody else and that matters. And to go win banners in the Final Four, win national championships. That's our job. With those high expectations, there will come criticism..."



also Mark Pope (March 2026, after finishing 9th in the SEC): "We're making progress."

 

[Beatle Bum]

I took down my UK Basketball Pride flag.

 

[Wayne Dougan]

I hate to be a downer, but I'm not sure it's really that possible to be super invested in the program any longer. I'd argue Pope wanted it to be like it was - and even said the right things, but college sports in general are so screwed up right now it makes it impossible to have pride in the program.

Pro sports have the benefit of long term contracts. I'm a huge Braves fan. We'll have had Acuna for 9 years and he's on contract for another 2, Olson for another 6, Riley for another 6, Albies for another 2. I've been watching these guys play together for at least the last 4 years - and in Acuna's case 9. Guys like Chipper Jones, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz are always back announcing games. There is love for the program by the players.

Now look at UK. As far as I can tell, it has been like 14 years since we've had a key, top level guy stay for four years (Miller). And I don't really remember anybody stay for three since PPat. It is impossible to build a connection and have pride in the program when this is happening.

 

[FLBBNFAN]

Didn't Pope basically say we have a "4 Headed GM", like four people doing the jobs that essentially 1 GM would do. I believe it was in the timeframe when he asked BBN to ask him questions and he came back with a few chosen questions to answer.

Edited: Found it.
Kentucky's 4-Person Front Office
Pope split the General Manager duties to cover all bases of roster management and compliance: [1, 2, 3, 4]

• Keegan Brown: Focuses on data analysis and roster construction.
• Nick Robinson: Handles salary cap strategy and roster management.
• Kevin Sergent: Manages compliance, contracts, and legal language as the senior associate athletic director.
• Kim Shelton: Oversees Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) contracts and corporate partnerships.

Yes he is doing it by committee and our committee stinks. That’s not bashing them personally but just on the results and the results show that we cant land a elite recruit or portal player to save our life.

In my opinion we are doing it by committee because Pope is a micromanager and is worried a good GM will show him up instead of viewing a good GM as a asset.

We consistently get used by players for more money and Pope is left at the altar time and time again. It's really deflating and embarrassing.

 

[BookofMormon]

All it takes is a coach. The coach is everything in college hoops and football. Look at Indiana, look at Michigan. You can turn nothing into great overnight in this day and age. That coach needs to have the "it" factor and a plan, that of which Pope has neither. Golden turned Florida into a top 5 team 3 years running. Iowa was in the Elite 8 last year.

You can't get rid of Pope fast enough - he's deflating. Next search is crucial, need to get the best available exciting up and coming coach on the market. I believe Hodgson was that this past cycle, and he went to PC. May was it two years ago and he has a S16 and a NC.

UK pulled the "nice story" hire. It almost never works. Go get a guy that can operational his system at UK without all the weird stuff.

 

[JAC71]

Teams definitely don’t fear us like they use too. Whether it was Pitino’s pressure defense or Calipari super team of high school players…. We are a team team led by a Barney Fife kind of cocach

 

[NoJuice]

I of course hope we get Milan. But, there was the day where Kentucky wasn't held so hostage or looked foolish with recruiting like it has now occurred. If you don't act elite are you?

We have been played by some recruits in the Cal era of course, or before, and it happens. But, why is our recruiting so public that we end up looking like fools with the whiffs? St. Johns landed Yessoufou right after he withdrew without any fanfare. We thought we were going to get Freeman and again without much attention another St. Johns commit. Of course Stokes was the most public recruiting for Kentucky where we looked beyond foolish to where he landed instead.

At what point can Kentucky be the elite landing place as in the past? I know the easy answer is the coach. Personally, I would still hire an assistant like J. Crawford (despite not landing Stokes) or someone similar who is that well connected. In fact, the money being mentioned for Milan would be better served long-term paying a top assistant coach like Crawford or a name, etc.

In any event, in my view to be elite you have to risk acting the same and not look like we are at present.....desperate.

We will be elite when we hire a elite coach. We will continue to be a notch below mediocre with a notch below mediocre coach. Don't complicate it.

The quicker Pope leaves this job he has no clue how to be good at the quicker Kentucky can try to be relevant. He gets abused in every direction. Players, media, and fanbase. And it's all deserved.

You dont get babied at the university of Kentucky. Unless you're Mark Pope. I'm mad at the fanbase for accepting this and acting like change can't be forced.

 

[Trinity45]

I of course hope we get Milan. But, there was the day where Kentucky wasn't held so hostage or looked foolish with recruiting like it has now occurred. If you don't act elite are you?

We have been played by some recruits in the Cal era of course, or before, and it happens. But, why is our recruiting so public that we end up looking like fools with the whiffs? St. Johns landed Yessoufou right after he withdrew without any fanfare. We thought we were going to get Freeman and again without much attention another St. Johns commit. Of course Stokes was the most public recruiting for Kentucky where we looked beyond foolish to where he landed instead.

At what point can Kentucky be the elite landing place as in the past? I know the easy answer is the coach. Personally, I would still hire an assistant like J. Crawford (despite not landing Stokes) or someone similar who is that well connected. In fact, the money being mentioned for Milan would be better served long-term paying a top assistant coach like Crawford or a name, etc.

In any event, in my view to be elite you have to risk acting the same and not look like we are at present.....desperate.

College basketball in general is now hostage to the players and this NIL and transfer and many times as they want crap. Unless Congress steps in and does something it will only get worse, not just for UK but all of college sports, but it seems basketball is the worse of the sports.

 

[theKybluedude]

Spot on! We need to hire a good coach.

The Pope experiment needs to end March of 2027.

Too early to make an honest assessment.

Didn’t expect a title in the first few years nor all the crippling injuries.

Takes time to grasp the UK program and get situated.

This year will tell something and where we are headed.