***CC22 and the Fever mega thread***
- Thread starter LetsGoHawks83
- Start date
They were in it at the end but that 17-5 run in the 4th can’t happen.
The Fever have lost three games by a combined 7 points.
I can imagine a world where she has .6 to turn around and shoot it and gets her shid stuffed like she had all quarter
Weird game. CC/KM/AB were all various degrees of meh. And the Fever still had nearly 90 points and a shot to tie or win it at the end.
Kinda felt like Caitlin was semi checked (to me) for the most of it. Hopefully it's just a bad night against a good defensive team.
Kinda felt like Caitlin was semi checked (to me) for the most of it. Hopefully it's just a bad night against a good defensive team.
Playing Sophie in 4th quarter was coaching in game failure along with Hines Allen I would have went with Boston and Timpson the entire quarter as well as Raven over Mitchell based on the game trends
She took very ill advised shots she needs to mature and make better decisionsClark 3 for 12 shooting
GG RIP Caitlin's pro career, and the WNBA.
At least you tried.......
At least you tried.......
She made bad passes and chuckled up 3s off balance maybe at home but on the road imo
Tough loss for the Fev.
Always a joy though, to watch how well coached GS is. Reminds me of the Hawkeye men, the way they get after it on D
Always a joy though, to watch how well coached GS is. Reminds me of the Hawkeye men, the way they get after it on D
Lol, Hayes was in the Wnba in 2012.
Carrington was 1st team all-defensive and league's most improved player in '24 (CC's rookie season).
'24 was also the 2nd time Carter averaged over 17 ppg. And she's averaging 20, so far this season
All those accolades and yet three years ago most basketball fans couldn’t have told you who any of them are.
Yep, and hardly anybody in the country could've picked them out of a lineup until they created their drama with CC.
Leaving Caitlin on an island to guard Burton, who's driving to the basket every chance she gets, is horrible coaching. Only a handfull of players in the league have the defensive skills to win that isolation matchup and Caitlin is not remotely one of them.
Why the Fever coaches didn't switch CC off Burton or get her some help is just throwing the game away. The Valkyries don't leave any of their defenders on an island. Help is never more than a step away. And, they have more athletic defenders. If the Valkyries would have guarded Mitchell the same way the Fever guarded Burton, Kelsey would have scored 40 plus points.
No adjustments by SW. None.
Why the Fever coaches didn't switch CC off Burton or get her some help is just throwing the game away. The Valkyries don't leave any of their defenders on an island. Help is never more than a step away. And, they have more athletic defenders. If the Valkyries would have guarded Mitchell the same way the Fever guarded Burton, Kelsey would have scored 40 plus points.
No adjustments by SW. None.
I would say most wnba players are still largely unknown.
Regardless, even an increase in the popularity of those players, would do nothing to support your claim that that was their intent
Actually, almost every player in the league is able to guard their position.
CC is a hell of a lot better driver than Burton. And is Burton not able to guard her one-on-one?
Perhaps CC should have been switched off of Burton last night. But the only long-term "adjustment", is CC getting better at guarding the ball. And that will probably require some coaching help, in terms off detail and accountability.
Yes, GS has a great defensive system that has help built-in. But it's part of their system, whereas helping off the strong side, one pass away, is a no-no for most teams.
No defense wants to have to help. The fundamental of every defense is being able to keep the ball in front of you, one-on-one. If a player is always requiring help or a switch, they are simply a liability on D.
Again, the real issue here, is that CC must get better at D.
And no strategy from the Fever amounted "throwing the game away". It was close down to the wire.
Were you in the huddle, to be able to characterize SW's coaching as containing no adjustments?
Somewhat of an off topic reply. I am a big fan of CC and no doubt she changed the face of the WNBA when she arrived. And many people watch her on tv and go to games because of her etc. With all the endorsements, events she want to attend or is required to attend away from the fever I wonder if its taking a toll. Yes she still makes outstanding plays and overall numbers are ok but it seems to me shooting pct is somewhat down and turnovers are up. Body language to me sometimes looks like "I am tired". I realize she is young etc. but has her hands more than full with off the court responsibilities. Tough to keep priorities in order, looking to improve, get ready for next game etc.
Last night was the first time that I can recall her not doing post-game media, college or pro, so I can definitely see where she may be getting tired of some of the grind. Basketball is a job now and for the first time she has had to face quite a few injuries so I can see the joy being tough to find until she gets both her body and her mind onto the same page.
If she cannot become dominant again, or if she let's this clear frustration/bad attitude take over (probably Connor's influence), then this league will be in trouble now that they have committed to paying all of the whiny leeches.
Open eyes and a smidge of common sense is all it takes. I can see how it missed you.
So what would you consider to be dominant? She's played basically 1 1/2 pro seasons with the games she missed last season. She's played in 60 games to this point. And yet she's 3rd or 4th in the league in scoring, and first in assists which she has been for almost her entire W career. She's already broken several all time W records, and another one last night, becoming the W's all time assists /GM leader at 8.5/GM ( the next closest is almost 2 assists /GM behind her). Already in less then 60 games the most 30/10+ games in history, and I think the most 20/10+ games in history. Her assist numbers would be 20% higher if players like Billings, and Timson could finish at the rim. She's pretty dominant right now, its just that the expectations for her are 25+ and 12+ per game and shoot over 50% or the critics come out.
For the Fever to be really good they need their big 3 to play really well. Valkyrie’s are a tough team, especially at home. CC’s road shooting woes unfortunately continue. 3-12, but she did get to the line a lot and go 8-8. But 6 assists and 5 turnovers is not great. But the bench played well, which is a bright spot. And I do kind of agree with eyes (can’t believe I’m saying that) that she’s got to keep getting better on the defensive end. If you’re always having to help her because she’s getting worked that leaves open the 3 or another open player. Her home road splits are certainly concerning.
I didn't see the game, but I'd imagine as usual the assist/to ratio is partly because of team mates not finishing their opportunities. That's certainly the case in most games. I'd agree that her shooting on the road has been off last year and this so far. I think she has improved somewhat on defense, but I'm not sure she'll ever be a really good defenders. (By the way, how many of the leagues top guards are really good on both ends of the floor)? While I think she's putting more effort into her defense, she still (and will probably always lacks) the lateral quickness of many of her peers. We saw the same thing at Iowa. It doesn't show up on offense because with the ball in her hands she can dictate the angles and she has pretty good straight ahead speed. The other point is pretty much EVERY team is making a concerted effort to attack her with the dribble drive when she's on defense. They all know its hard to slow her down on offense, so forcing her to foul, (or play matador defense), is their best option.
The richest contract in WNBA history last night:
13 points, 6 rebounds, 0 blocks, 0 steals. Only 22 minutes played because she doesn't know how to not foul.
One of only 2 players in the WNBA currently playing on a super-max contract last night:
14 points, 3 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks.
Sure we can complain about CC having an off night. 16 points, 6 assists, 4 rebounds, 3 steals, and a block. Also 5 turnovers and shooting from the floor poorly in a road game. But she's costing the team less than $530k this year. Total salary for the prior two players combined is $2.4 MM.
Aja Wilson is the only other super-max player currently playing. She's chipping in 24 points and 7 rebounds per game and is absolutely worth that money.
Looking at the Max contract players we see:
Alyssa Thomas at 17 pts, 8 rbs, 8 assists
Kahleah Copper at 19 pts, 2.5 rbs, 2.3 assists
Marina Mabrey at 19 pts, 3 rbs, 3.5 assists
Mitchell is at 21pts, 1 rb, 2.3 assists and is getting $200k more than any of those three players. She somehow has managed only 6 total rebounds this season to go with 3 steals and zero blocks, out of 7 games played. I'm sorry but you can't be a 1 dimensional player on a super-max contract in basketball unless you're pouring in 30 points per game. A lot of players earning a lot less than her are more well rounded while still contributing nearly as many points. Fever played the salary cap wrong in this offseason by throwing a super-max at Mitchell, not to mention $800k at Billings. And frankly Lexie and Sophie need to be contributing more for their money too.
It is still in the first 1/4 of the season, so things can improve. And they're literally 4 converted shots away from being undefeated. But they haven't looked good and it is looking like the front office made more bad mistakes in this offseason, similar to last offseason. If things don't improve I don't know how you can keep this front office for next season. Not to mention a coach that is trying to out-think the game of basketball rather than just going with one of the most dominant pick and roll pairings in the league.
13 points, 6 rebounds, 0 blocks, 0 steals. Only 22 minutes played because she doesn't know how to not foul.
One of only 2 players in the WNBA currently playing on a super-max contract last night:
14 points, 3 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks.
Sure we can complain about CC having an off night. 16 points, 6 assists, 4 rebounds, 3 steals, and a block. Also 5 turnovers and shooting from the floor poorly in a road game. But she's costing the team less than $530k this year. Total salary for the prior two players combined is $2.4 MM.
Aja Wilson is the only other super-max player currently playing. She's chipping in 24 points and 7 rebounds per game and is absolutely worth that money.
Looking at the Max contract players we see:
Alyssa Thomas at 17 pts, 8 rbs, 8 assists
Kahleah Copper at 19 pts, 2.5 rbs, 2.3 assists
Marina Mabrey at 19 pts, 3 rbs, 3.5 assists
Mitchell is at 21pts, 1 rb, 2.3 assists and is getting $200k more than any of those three players. She somehow has managed only 6 total rebounds this season to go with 3 steals and zero blocks, out of 7 games played. I'm sorry but you can't be a 1 dimensional player on a super-max contract in basketball unless you're pouring in 30 points per game. A lot of players earning a lot less than her are more well rounded while still contributing nearly as many points. Fever played the salary cap wrong in this offseason by throwing a super-max at Mitchell, not to mention $800k at Billings. And frankly Lexie and Sophie need to be contributing more for their money too.
It is still in the first 1/4 of the season, so things can improve. And they're literally 4 converted shots away from being undefeated. But they haven't looked good and it is looking like the front office made more bad mistakes in this offseason, similar to last offseason. If things don't improve I don't know how you can keep this front office for next season. Not to mention a coach that is trying to out-think the game of basketball rather than just going with one of the most dominant pick and roll pairings in the league.
I could have articulated my point better, but I think we agree. She is clearly the best player in the league to anyone who knows what they are watching. But the W cannot rely on knowledgeable fans alone. There just simply are not enough out there to keep the league viable (without massive subsidies). Unfortunately, this league will not see sustained success unless Caitlin can attain admittedly unfair statistical achievements that make her intriguing to casual fans who want to see 35 foot logo 3s and 30ppg.