Is the shine already coming off ai & data centers?

[Seinfeld]

Yep, some county leadership where I am are Democrats who pushed through 2 dc's in a very non-transparent manner. They got their assses handed to them in the recent primary.

With that being said, one need look no farther than the recent presidential inauguration to see today where the top tech oligarchs are aligned.

100%, but I don't see it as being as much about AI itself as it is the companies backing it. Google, nVent, Apple, Microsoft, Dell, nVidia... A virtual who's who of top Fortune 500 companies that are never going to be big fans of today's Democratic policy

On a side note, I happen work for a company that manufactures the cooling systems for these DCs, and all I can say is that this train will slow down one day, but it's not going to be any time soon. We genuinely cannot build the stuff fast enough

I'm also reminded by the early days of the internet and social media when people were convinced that it would all lead to medical/tech breakthroughs and an ultra educated society, and yet here we are spending 90% of the time sharing Sydney Sweeney pics, tiktok dances, and cat videos

 

[85Bears]

I cannot answer all of those issues, but some of those 'issues' have been debunked. As far as water is concerned, of the Big 3 that are going in MS, one uses waste water, one doesnt use water at all to cool, and the other uses a figure of 8% (whatever that means)....ive heard the water addressed multiple (as in dozens) on Supertalk interviews with state and local officials addressing those concerns. The power issue was addressed and there will be no rate increases to local citizens either. You can find all of this information on the Supertalk app with all the interview.

Can you show me which ones have been debunked ? And “we promise we won’t raise your rates” doesn’t count. Water is most definitely an issue and that is easily documented.


A typical large "hyperscale" data center consumes 1 to 5 million gallons per day (equivalent to a city of 10,000 to 50,000 people), while medium-sized facilities consume about 300,000 to 500,000 gallons daily.[1, 2, 3, 4]

How the Water is Used

• Evaporative Cooling: The most common method utilizes cooling towers or adiabatic systems where water evaporates to carry away the intense heat generated by servers.
• Energy Trade-offs: Using water allows data centers to run more efficiently. Paradoxically, if operators are forced to switch to traditional air-conditioning or chillers, energy consumption spikes dramatically.
• AI Processing: High-density AI chips get hotter and require more intensive cooling. For example, training advanced models can require up to 16 ounces of water for every few dozen prompts. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

 

[dawgstudent]

here we are spending 90% of the time sharing Sydney Sweeney pics, tiktok dances, and cat videos

Undefeated.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Also keep in mind that it’s not at full capacity yet. The lot where they are keeping more turbines is down the road from our farm. The lot is nearly full.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

That's not the data center itself. I'm assuming those are aeroderivative turbines. That sounds like a real issue but its an issue of where power plants are allowed to be located. Not a practical difference to any residents that have to deal with it, but a real difference with respect to whether you should be against data centers or for zoning/permitting requirements for power companies (or others) locating new plants.

right, to me it just speaks to the final point that I had of negative things we haven't even thought about yet. Those folks are dealing with a bunch of crap because somebody permitted the datacenter and allowed the use of those turbines. If politicians could sell our kidneys, we'd always be looking over our shoulder...

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Some of you smart engineers on here could probably critique this but its definitely interesting.

Humanity May Reach Singularity Within Just 4 Years, Trend Shows

When will the singularity occur? According to new research, humanity may achieve singularity within just 5 years—much sooner than we originally thought.

tech.yahoo.com

I call BS. Singularity isn't close.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

You leftist SOB…..Pry it from my cold, dead hands….

View attachment 1297003

 

[Beretta.sixpack]

Can you show me which ones have been debunked ? And “we promise we won’t raise your rates” doesn’t count. Water is most definitely an issue and that is easily documented.


A typical large "hyperscale" data center consumes 1 to 5 million gallons per day (equivalent to a city of 10,000 to 50,000 people), while medium-sized facilities consume about 300,000 to 500,000 gallons daily.[1, 2, 3, 4]

How the Water is Used

• Evaporative Cooling: The most common method utilizes cooling towers or adiabatic systems where water evaporates to carry away the intense heat generated by servers.
• Energy Trade-offs: Using water allows data centers to run more efficiently. Paradoxically, if operators are forced to switch to traditional air-conditioning or chillers, energy consumption spikes dramatically.
• AI Processing: High-density AI chips get hotter and require more intensive cooling. For example, training advanced models can require up to 16 ounces of water for every few dozen prompts. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

I cannot show you....You will have to do the research yourself....I don't have the time to look it up for you, but the interviews with state and local officials are numbered in the dozens.....just research them on Supertalk FM app or website....I paraphrased what i have heard in these interviews.

 

[mstateglfr]

There isn’t a massive depletion of water.

We need more energy infrastructure in this country anyways. Good catalyst to get more energy infrestructure.

yeah let’s put AI on the back burner and let China do it before us! GREAT IDEA!

There is clearly a ton of water depletion across the country.

Groundwater subsidence is the term for when land literally drops lower, due to compaction from aquifers being used up.
Examples of it are widespread and well documented.


Are you saying there isn't depletion because there is somehow a net neutral amount due to increases elsewhere? If so, that doesn't mean depletion doesn't exist.
If you aren't using that to support your claim, I cant guess what you are using.

 

[turkish]

There isn’t a massive depletion of water.

You don’t think so? I think it’s a real thing in some areas. I also believe it will eventually become a problem in more areas. I don’t believe there is much data on it yet, but our land use practices across most of the continent that actually receives rainfall have changed drastically over the last 100 years, consistently in the direction of prohibiting ground infiltration. Even our farmland uses wells to get water and advanced underground systems to shoot it off before replenishing the aquifer.

 

[johnson86-1]

Also keep in mind that it’s not at full capacity yet. The lot where they are keeping more turbines is down the road from our farm. The lot is nearly full.

So I take it that is the turbines? Been going down a rabbit hole about the sound and it's a mix of people that are adamant there is no real noise, a people that are adamant that data centers are ridiculously loud, and people that claim they are particularly sensitive to them like the people claiming that transmission lines interrupt their sleep, cause headaches, and number other ailments.

Either the difference is that older (or at least differently equipped) data centers are loud while other are not, or the people complaining are actually complaining about the power generation equipment while the ones saying they are quiet deal with data centers without onsite generation, or one side or the other is flooded with bots.

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

Apparently just turn off the water, and it fries itself. Problem solved.

Turn off the Fresh Clean Water. Let them try to use Arkabutla Lake water and see how it works out. Those things require more fresh clean water than we gave aquifers to pump it out of.

 

[HRMSU]

We much prefer a world where we aren't even in the top 20 in Happiness (23rd), Basic Human Needs (28th), Life Expectancy and Health (40th to 50th), and Press and Personal Freedom (28th). *

Ha! I'm not going to assume you aren't well traveled because you very well could be but there are very few places if any that are better than this country.

Rankings are great and all but very few of those countries ranked better than us would even be sovereign if not for us. We are far from perfect and not without our sins but for a country that's only existed for 250 years we punch way above our weight. Tell me you hate America without telling me you hate America.

 

[dorndawg]

nm

 

[johnson86-1]

I call BS. Singularity isn't close.

I mean, for that weird as hell definition we may be there in 5 years. But I always thought of the singularity as something along the lines of "AI is self learnign to the point that it does not need human input to keep improving, and its capabilities therefore immediately accelerate beyond humans." If singularity means it can write and edit better than humans, then that's great and all, but not sure that is going to be super transformational.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I mean, for that weird as hell definition we may be there in 5 years. But I always thought of the singularity as something along the lines of "AI is self learnign to the point that it does not need human input to keep improving, and its capabilities therefore immediately accelerate beyond humans." If singularity means it can write and edit better than humans, then that's great and all, but not sure that is going to be super transformational.

I'm substantially more efficient today because of AI. I'm able to deliver more value for my customers. What I'm doing to combat AI, is learning what it is good at, wrapping processes that make sense around it to deliver more value to my customers in a cost-neutral way. Part of my processes are ensuring that I have HITL.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

So I take it that is the turbines? Been going down a rabbit hole about the sound and it's a mix of people that are adamant there is no real noise, a people that are adamant that data centers are ridiculously loud, and people that claim they are particularly sensitive to them like the people claiming that transmission lines interrupt their sleep, cause headaches, and number other ailments.

Either the difference is that older (or at least differently equipped) data centers are loud while other are not, or the people complaining are actually complaining about the power generation equipment while the ones saying they are quiet deal with data centers without onsite generation, or one side or the other is flooded with bots.

I’ve heard it for myself. It’s loud and it’s a different sound than jets or traffic that can ebb and flow throughout the day. This is 24/7 of a very loud noise.

We can agree to disagree because after the 48 paragraphs that you’ve written in this thread, it’s pretty clear that I’m not going to change your mind.

 

[dorndawg]

Current headlines:

 

[johnson86-1]

I’ve heard it for myself. It’s loud and it’s a different sound than jets or traffic that can ebb and flow throughout the day. This is 24/7 of a very loud noise.

We can agree to disagree because after the 48 paragraphs that you’ve written in this thread, it’s pretty clear that I’m not going to change your mind.

That was a real question. Are those the turbines or the actual data center? I’m slightly more than 50% sure you are not a bot so wanted to know the answer.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

That was a real question. Are those the turbines or the actual data center? I’m slightly more than 50% sure you are not a bot so wanted to know the answer.

It’s the turbines that run the current data center that they are expanding.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

AI is just getting started and those of us that use it in data analytics know it's pretty good but limited. The top shelf AI for the public is pretty damn good but nowhere close to what it will be

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

You use them everyday

Yuup, imagine people on the intranet complaining about data centers.

 

[paindonthurt]

There is clearly a ton of water depletion across the country.

Groundwater subsidence is the term for when land literally drops lower, due to compaction from aquifers being used up.
Examples of it are widespread and well documented.


Are you saying there isn't depletion because there is somehow a net neutral amount due to increases elsewhere? If so, that doesn't mean depletion doesn't exist.
If you aren't using that to support your claim, I cant guess what you are using.

A depletion of water means less water. There isn’t less water.

If you are saying there are localized depletions then ok. But that’s not what he said.

 

[paindonthurt]

You don’t think so? I think it’s a real thing in some areas. I also believe it will eventually become a problem in more areas. I don’t believe there is much data on it yet, but our land use practices across most of the continent that actually receives rainfall have changed drastically over the last 100 years, consistently in the direction of prohibiting ground infiltration. Even our farmland uses wells to get water and advanced underground systems to shoot it off before replenishing the aquifer.

Are there localized depletions? Maybe. There isn’t an overall depletion of water.

 

[mstateglfr]

Yuup, imagine people on the intranet complaining about data centers.

- the internet very much existed for a long time before the recent surge in data centers.

- you don't need AI to be on the internet or this message board, and a lot of recent data center growth is directly related to AI and cloud use.

- consumer use of AI and data centers is largely due to not having a realistic alternative. Its like trying to buy at dumb TV, or even a CRT TV. Consumers can purchase and consume what is available in the marketplace. It's damn tough to consume stuff that isn't readily available.
Same goes for cloud storage and computing. Consumers largely use what is made available. Doesn't mean they like it.

 

[blacklistedbully]

There is no choice. We are already in a desperate battle to win the AI war, especially against China. Losing is not an option if we desire freedom and a relatively safe world.

 

[Dawghouse]

My take:

Data centers are coming one way or another. Best to jump on board and get a slice of the pie.

studies are showing a lot of negative data center noise is being paid for by China. Maybe those studies are funded by the AI bros, maybe not, but it would make sense.
China does not give a rats *** about power, water, or anything else. They want to dominate globally.

I'm of the opinion that 17 the CCP so let's roll. Laws are being passed now to force data centers to build out their own power grids. The water thing has been vastly exaggerated (with some exceptions, if your area has lawn watering bans you should probably sit this one out).

Modular nuclear is nearly here and power issues can be alleviated, water can too as long as you arent in a dessert.
I'd much rather have data centers up and down the MS river than casinas.

Yes AI is about to upend the job market but thats going to happen whether you have data centers nearby or not.

if data centers are the heart of AI, and AI is about to wipe out tax producing jobs, you'd be best served having this data centers within your taxable zone so the "gubment" can tax the hell out of them.

For all those worried about losing your white collar job, look up Mike Rowe, he's got some great opportunities that pay six figure salaries.

 

[mstateglfr]

A depletion of water means less water. There isn’t less water.

If you are saying there are localized depletions then ok. But that’s not what he said.

Oh boy. He said there is a massive depletion of water sources. Sources...as in plural. That means multiple.
So he wasn't talking about water as a whole across the world.
He said sources are depleted, so it was clearly a reference to more localized water sources vs water across the world.

And he is correct- there are multiple water sources that have been depleted or are being depleted.

- You misunderstood the comment and have doubled down.
- You are failing to play a semantics game when it should be obvious that people speak about water depletion from a more localized perspective.

Massive depletion of water sources

 

[lazlow]

My finger-in-the-wind sense is that lots of regular folks are deciding ai may next not be the next greatest thing. This polling sure seems to back that up. Where are you on it, what are you hearing and seeing?

View attachment 1296772

Americans Oppose AI Data Centers in Their Area

Seven in 10 Americans oppose the construction of an AI data center in their local area, including 48% strongly opposed.

news.gallup.com

7 outta 10 people don't know what the 17 spell-checker is.

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

Will Musk xAI center in Southaven employ mostly Shelby County Tn folk, are will most of the jobs be for Mississippians?

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

It’s the turbines that run the current data center that they are expanding.

DCD, how close do you live the State Line center? We are moving to Desoto County this fall and I don’t want to be within earshot of that thing.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

DCD, how close do you live the State Line center? We are moving to Desoto County this fall and I don’t want to be within earshot of that thing.

I live in Hernando. I have driven to about a half mile from xAI in Southaven to hear it for myself. It’s loud.

if you’re outside the western part of Southaven you won’t ever have to worry about it.

 

[engie]

My finger-in-the-wind sense is that lots of regular folks are deciding ai may next not be the next greatest thing. This polling sure seems to back that up. Where are you on it, what are you hearing and seeing?

View attachment 1296772

Americans Oppose AI Data Centers in Their Area

Seven in 10 Americans oppose the construction of an AI data center in their local area, including 48% strongly opposed.

news.gallup.com

The AI is inevitable. Would you prefer it be American or Chinese that is imposed upon us?

Personally I’d rather win. But the lack of power build out compared to China makes that unlikely barring Elon actually putting them in space.

 

[ETK99]

You can hear and smell paper mills a mile away, so nothing new with noise and industry. The data centers will improve as technology advances as well. But, I don't want one close to me. I saw something about them building data centers in the ocean a few weeks ago and the take was it was slow the water rise around the plant if it works out, so there are so many things going on the general public has no idea about. I'm sure we'll hear about dying fish or two headed whales if they put them out there. If I'm in agriculture, I dang sure don't want one near me.

 

[aTotal360]

Right wing and libertarians oppose them because of the idea of the surveillance state.
Left wing and greenies oppose them because of the perceived ecological threat.

 

[JackReacherDawg]

My take:

Data centers are coming one way or another. Best to jump on board and get a slice of the pie.

Very arguable. This technology takes more capital expenditure than ever seen, and has yet to turn a profit or really find a needed use. It has all the signs of a bubble. And if it does crash, data centers will be an albatross for their localities.

Another thing not mentioned here: these data centers are obsolete within a few years, potentially.

At best, this tech will resolve to one or two "owners". The entirety of the economy could not support the capital expenditures being spent on it. That means most of these data centers will go bankrupt and be abandoned.

ETA: and most localities are banking on breaking even on these deals over the long run. Taxes on the rest of us will end up paying for this.

 

[dorndawg]

Right wing and libertarians oppose them because of the idea of the surveillance state.
Left wing and greenies oppose them because of the perceived ecological threat.

Call me crazy, I think most reasonable people don't want to live in a police state or environmental hellscape.

 

[Villagedawg]

very few of those countries ranked better than us would even be sovereign if not for us.

Has nothing to do with the topic.

We are far from perfect and not without our sins but for a country that's only existed for 250 years we punch way above our weight.

Yep. We've done pretty well in most areas.

Tell me you hate America without telling me you hate America.

Dad: "Son, your grades are not where they should be. I want you to be the best! You must do better."
HRMSU: "Tell me you hate your son without telling me you hate your son."

And, to be fair, you brought up rankings. I doubt we disagree on how great America is.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

- the internet very much existed for a long time before the recent surge in data centers.

- you don't need AI to be on the internet or this message board, and a lot of recent data center growth is directly related to AI and cloud use.

- consumer use of AI and data centers is largely due to not having a realistic alternative. Its like trying to buy at dumb TV, or even a CRT TV. Consumers can purchase and consume what is available in the marketplace. It's damn tough to consume stuff that isn't readily available.
Same goes for cloud storage and computing. Consumers largely use what is made available. Doesn't mean they like it.

True, but the natural progression of the internet leads to more data centers on its own, AI certainly increases the need, but we'd have to have more capacity eventually.

 

[HRMSU]

Has nothing to do with the topic.

Yep. We've done pretty well in most areas.

Dad: "Son, your grades are not where they should be. I want you to be the best! You must do better."
HRMSU: "Tell me you hate your son without telling me you hate your son."

And, to be fair, you brought up rankings. I doubt we disagree on how great America is.

Somewhat fair.

I'd argue the sovereignty does have something to do with the topic since most communist/dictator countries probably don't rank too high on your rankings list. Our badly ranked country has saved plenty of higher ranked countries from that type of future . Also, this little agreement called NATO sure as heck is not led(in real terms) by any country ranked better than us but I'm sure they could remain sovereign and fend off Russia, China, etc without us. So yes in a way we subsidize their freedom to be ranked high in any category that freedom promotes.

I'll pre, current and post sh!+ on my country when we no longer have to keep masses of people from entering legal or illegal. That seems to be the most practical ranking for me. When people no longer risk their lives, their kids lives, their families lives to get to the best country in the world then I'll acknowledge we've dropped too far in the rankings. In the meantime, I'll keep eating my ice cream and apple pie on the 4th of July with a big ole twenty something ranked smile on my face.