***CC22 and the Fever mega thread***

[eyesofhawk]

People get really confused between greatest player and most accomplished player. Greatest player refers to skills, most accomplished refers to championships and MVP awards. There are players that don’t belong on the same court as Clark who have championship rings. That doesn’t mean they are better than her. And what she did getting Iowa to back to back national championship games is far more impressive than winning back to back on a UConn team.

I wouldn't say people get confused, as much as people have their own definitions and things they value.

That's why the conversation of greatest player in team sports has its fundamental limitations.

The ability to make winning plays in winning moments is also a skill. But how much a player's teammates contribute to winning isn't a controlled variable.

So it is what it is. Definitely a variety of cases at the table. Which in the end, means there is no college GOAT. It's not about having the best argument. It's about being the greatest

 

[Hawksfor3]

Will there be a Season 2? Lol.

Post #3773.

 

[Gonzo_Bloor]

I wouldn't say people get confused, as much as people have their own definitions and things they value.

That's why the conversation of greatest player in team sports has its fundamental limitations.

The ability to make winning plays in winning moments is also a skill. But how much a player's teammates contribute to winning isn't a controlled variable.

So it is what it is. Definitely a variety of cases at the table. Which in the end, means there is no college GOAT. It's not about having the best argument. It's about being the greatest

Well Shaq disagrees with you on that.

He's a collegiate and professional sports icon.

You're just an idiot.

 

[Hawksfor3]

She has her own lid on the basket lol.

 

[eyesofhawk]

I coached basketball for a lot of years and she is the best offensive female player I’ve even seen….its hard to overrate the best. If anything she is underrated because she gets nit picked like no other player and expectations of her are way higher than anyone else.

I too coached for many years.

Best offensive player is not the same as greatest player of all-time.

Is it your contention that CC is currently the best player in the world? Because Aja Wilson is the one winning the MVP awards.

And a poll of GM's reveals Bueckers to be the most popular pick to begin a franchise with.

In the end, people have different views. Which makes it a discussion of being one of the best. That's why being called THE greatest ever should never have happened.

And, are having the highest expectations not part of being overrated?

 

[eyesofhawk]

100%. Barry Sanders has zero Super Bowl rings, and is still considered by most the greatest RB of all time.

There are many RB's in that discussion.

Personally, I would say Sanders is one of the most overrated.

And notice how you didn't call him the greatest player of all-time, in a team sport?

 

[Gonzo_Bloor]

There are many RB's in that discussion.

Personally, I would say Sanders is one of the most overrated.

And notice how you didn't call him the greatest player of all-time, in a team sport?

Lol, you're so clueless.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Which part of "best female collegiate player ever" are you struggling with?

In your world "best female collegiate player ever" doesn't = "college GOAT"?

Lol. You're such a clown. Take the L and try to get better.

(THE ACRONYM) GOAT.

Meaning, when people used that acronym for CC, the "college" distinction is not implied.

What part of that were you struggling with the first or second time I explained it?

 

[Gonzo_Bloor]

No offense, but you're kinda weird, bro.

He's the dweebiest troll on this board. Which is saying something. Lol.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Well Shaq disagrees with you on that.

He's a collegiate and professional sports icon.

You're just an idiot.

And the others on the telecast disagreed with Shaq

 

[Ludd]

I wouldn't say people get confused, as much as people have their own definitions and things they value.

That's why the conversation of greatest player in team sports has its fundamental limitations.

The ability to make winning plays in winning moments is also a skill. But how much a player's teammates contribute to winning isn't a controlled variable.

So it is what it is. Definitely a variety of cases at the table. Which in the end, means there is no college GOAT. It's not about having the best argument. It's about being the greatest

And looking at everything players have done in college (not teams) Clark is the best ever offensively. She may not be the best all around when you include defense, but she’s the best all around offensive player in the history of women’s college basketball…she accomplished things no other player has done including taking an average team to back to back championship games. It’s much like Larry Bird in college, he never won but what he did at Indiana State was far more impressive than most championship winning teams.

 

[Gonzo_Bloor]

(THE ACRONYM) GOAT.

Meaning, when people used that acronym for CC, the "college" distinction is not implied.

What part of that were you struggling with the first or second time I explained it?

Was it a daughter or a niece of yours who CC clearly humiliated in club ball years ago? Lol. That's the only explanation for your hate.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Lol, you're so clueless.

Just not my type of back.

Great talent.

But didn't fall forward to churn out consistent yards. A lot of big yardage runs. But a lot of zero and negative yard runs. No cumulative pounding on the D.

And very hard to block for because of his unpredictability

 

[Ludd]

I too coached for many years.

Best offensive player is not the same as greatest player of all-time.

Is it your contention that CC is currently the best player in the world? Because Aja Wilson is the one winning the MVP awards.

And a poll of GM's reveals Bueckers to be the most popular pick to begin a franchise with.

In the end, people have different views. Which makes it a discussion of being one of the best. That's why being called THE greatest ever should never have happened.

And, are having the highest expectations not part of being overrated?

I never said being the best offensive player was the GOAT….i said she’s the best all around offensive player in the history of women’s college basketball. She’s also currently the best all around offensive player in the W….not best all around, but best all around offensive player. I also don’t think Aja Wilson is the best all around player in the W either, but she’s really good.

 

[eyesofhawk]

I never said being the best offensive player was the GOAT….i said she’s the best all around offensive player in the history of women’s college basketball. She’s also currently the best all around offensive player in the W….not best all around, but best all around offensive player. I also don’t think Aja Wilson is the best all around player in the W either, but she’s really good.

Ok. Well, the post of mine you responded to was in response to 2 claims:
1. That CC was currently the best player in the league.
2. That CC was the college GOAT, "period".

Being the best offensive player is not the same as either of those claims. So I'm not sure why you posted that thought in response to my post.

#1 and #2 still stand as examples of people overrating CC

 

[eyesofhawk]

And looking at everything players have done in college (not teams) Clark is the best ever offensively. She may not be the best all around when you include defense, but she’s the best all around offensive player in the history of women’s college basketball…she accomplished things no other player has done including taking an average team to back to back championship games. It’s much like Larry Bird in college, he never won but what he did at Indiana State was far more impressive than most championship winning teams.

You just said yourself, "(CC) may not be the best all-around."

Well, she has been called just that.

So, it seems you agree she has been overrated

 

[Franisdaman]

 

[Hawksfor3]

Looks like I'm perhaps one of the few who are with you on this one.

LOL.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Was it a daughter or a niece of yours who CC clearly humiliated in club ball years ago? Lol. That's the only explanation for your hate.

As I've said, this topic is a carry-over from another thread, in which I clearly acknowledge CC's greatness.

I absolutely believe CC to be one of the best players in the world. But that has nothing to do with my point.

My point is entirely a commentary on fans. Rather than the possibility that they have overrated CC, any lack of dominance from her has to be attributed to something else, such as the coach needing to be fired, which was the claim being made in the other thread

 

[52317Hawk]

Then, it would be reasonable for you to consider the possibility that you didn't see read those threads.

Yes, posting as eyesofhawk, my only message board account. On the previous site. Don't post often about women's basketball, but had the discussion on the women's forum, in women's threads before the women's forum, and in a men's thread, as I recall.

I've followed the Hawkeye women my whole life, the WNBA since its inception, and a decent amount of women's college ball before that.

I'm not sure what your problem is with it anyway. I was only saying what was obvious to anyone who knew a darn thing. CC was not the greatest women's basketball player of all-time.

My main point has always been how much I hate the goat crowing craze. I also warned how it would end up with CC having to incur unessecary challenges in her pro career.

Might want to calm down a little, bro. You're literally arguing with me about what my own actions were

So you hate people that have OPINIONS on who might be the GOAT of women's college basketball? Do you have an opinion on WHO might be better?

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

The best thing was they both had a good laugh over it. Good for Hindeman.

 

[eyesofhawk]

So you hate people that have OPINIONS on who might be the GOAT of women's college basketball? Do you have an opinion on WHO might be better?

Not sure where you're getting this from. I didn't say a word about the college GOAT in my post you've responded to.

It might all make more sense if you read the posts from the "Fire Stephanie White" thread.

I've already said, I believe there to be many in the discussion for college GOAT. Which means there isn't anyone that should be referred to as the college GOAT.

As if, "college GOAT" was ever a term anybody used anyway.

It's not. Because greatest of all-time pretty much excludes college players.

And again, who happens to be/or not be the college GOAT is irrelevant to my points

 

[oldhawk56]

There is no "C" in GOAT. And I do not recall one person bothering to make that distinction. They simply said, "GOAT".

Again, the WNBA players heard the same thing.

Has there every been anyone referred to as the "college GOAT" in any sport? Of course not. Because there is no "C" in GOAT.

And for what it's worth, the college GOAT is plenty debatable

I think you are taking this to to an obsurd level.. you seem to be taking it personal...relax

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I wouldn't say people get confused, as much as people have their own definitions and things they value.

That's why the conversation of greatest player in team sports has its fundamental limitations.

The ability to make winning plays in winning moments is also a skill. But how much a player's teammates contribute to winning isn't a controlled variable.

So it is what it is. Definitely a variety of cases at the table. Which in the end, means there is no college GOAT. It's not about having the best argument. It's about being the greatest

What's your favorite dressing?

 

[Gonzo_Bloor]

I think you are taking this to to an obsurd level.. you seem to be taking it personal...relax

He's desperately clinging to semantics to avoid having to admit how wrong he is.

Shaq called CC "the best collegiate women's basketball player ever" but since he didn't say the words "college greatest of all time" this guy is trying to tell us Shaq didn't call her the college GOAT.

It's as funny as it is pathetic. Lol.

 

[KurtWarner]

If NBC knew she was going to say that I doubt they would have been on board with it

 

[Gonzo_Bloor]

And the others on the telecast disagreed with Shaq

Yeah, they did. Not the point. You said nobody's ever referred to a player as the greatest of all time in college. Shaq said CC was the best college WBB player ever.

Nice try.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

There are many RB's in that discussion.

Personally, I would say Sanders is one of the most overrated.

And notice how you didn't call him the greatest player of all-time, in a team sport?

(THE ACRONYM) GOAT.

Meaning, when people used that acronym for CC, the "college" distinction is not implied.

What part of that were you struggling with the first or second time I explained it?

And the others on the telecast disagreed with Shaq

See, these are all merely antagonistic posts meant to instigate.

I know why you don't comment on IowaLaw's threads...................

 

[oldhawk56]

I coached basketball for a lot of years and she is the best offensive female player I’ve even seen….its hard to overrate the best. If anything she is underrated because she gets nit picked like no other player and expectations of her are way higher than anyone else.

Not to mention the amount of attention she gets from opposing defenses.. its like they hold a grudge..

 

[eyesofhawk]

He's desperately clinging to semantics to avoid having to admit how wrong he is.

Shaq called CC "the best collegiate women's basketball player ever" but since he didn't say the words "college greatest of all time" this guy is trying to tell us Shaq didn't call her the college GOAT.

It's as funny as it is pathetic. Lol.

Wow! You truly don't understand what I was trying to say before you even mentioned Shaq.

I'm not going to explain it again. Read better

 

[Gonzo_Bloor]

Wow! You truly don't understand what I was trying to say before you even mentioned Shaq.

I'm not going to explain it again. Read better

Yeah I'd walk it back too if I were you. Lol.

 

[oldhawk56]

What would it look like when factoring minutes played?

 

[eyesofhawk]

Yeah, they did. Not the point. You said nobody's ever referred to a player as the greatest of all time in college. Shaq said CC was the best college WBB player ever.

Nice try.

No. That isn't what I said.

Keep re-reading the posts in this thread. I would think you'll figure it out eventually. But who knows? Again, I won't explain it to you again.

And yes, the fact that the other members of the telecast disagreed with Shaq is a completely relevant rebuttal to your having attempted to use Shaq's expertise as the gospel.

No need to try to walk back on what you said and redirect

 

[eyesofhawk]

Yeah I'd walk it back too if I were you. Lol.

Again, my point was made before you ever mentioned Shaq. And it remains.

I'd forgotten how annoying you are

 

[eyesofhawk]

See, these are all merely antagonistic posts meant to instigate.

I know why you don't comment on IowaLaw's threads...................

I have no idea why tou would think those are antagonist posts. Again, you might want to chill out a little.

I do comment in Slaw's posts from time to time. And you already tried the Slaw crap with me, which I proved to be laughable

 

[Gonzo_Bloor]

No. That isn't what I said.

Keep re-reading the posts in this thread. I would think you'll figure it out eventually. But who knows? Again, I won't explain it to you again.

And yes, the fact that the other members of the telecast disagreed with Shaq is a completely relevant rebuttal to your having attempted to use Shaq's expertise as the gospel.

No need to try to walk back on what you said and redirect

The fact that the other members of the telecast disagreed with Shaq actually further proves my point and makes you look even more silly. The others said Cheryl Miller, Maya Moore, Diana Taurasi. They all had other opinions on who might be the best ever women's college BB player.

Guess what they didn't say? They didn't say there's no greatest collegiate women's BB player ever. Which is what you're trying to say.

So thanks for proving my point. Lol.

 

[Gonzo_Bloor]

Again, my point was made before you ever mentioned Shaq. And it remains.

I'd forgotten how annoying you are

I'd be annoyed too if I were being proven wrong over and over again. Lol.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Not to mention the amount of attention she gets from opposing defenses.. its like they hold a grudge..

Of course they hold a grudge. That's the whole point.

As a junior in college, people were calling CC the GOAT. You don't think professional athletes are going to take offense to that?

I told people at the time, that the goat crowing craze is completely disrespectful. And in CC's case, it was going to make things unnecessarily hard for her

 

[Franisdaman]

 

[Franisdaman]