Alabama privates going solo. Illinois? Should they?

[Bubbajoe]

A few public schools recruit. We have mentioned those. Many Privates recruit, but not all. Problem is that they do not need to recruit because programs are good and colleges come see them play. A separation of private and public not really the answer. The answer is something called a power team league and everyone else in classes. elect or if you win twice in a row you go to power league. This is my opinion after 37 years in the IHSA. You can not hate privates. They playing by the rules as of today.

 

[4Afan]

A few public schools recruit. We have mentioned those. Many Privates recruit, but not all. Problem is that they do not need to recruit because programs are good and colleges come see them play. A separation of private and public not really the answer. The answer is something called a power team league and everyone else in classes. elect or if you win twice in a row you go to power league. This is my opinion after 37 years in the IHSA. You can not hate privates. They playing by the rules as of today.

So if LeWin or Wilmington wins 2 in a row then get put in a class with MC and Montini? Seems fair.

 

[Cross Bones]

So if LeWin or Wilmington wins 2 in a row then get put in a class with MC and Montini? Seems fair.

I think it should be the reverse. If LeWin or Wilmington win 2 then MC should be put in their class.

 

[HuskieFan2020]

As someone who is originally from New Jersey and now living in Illinois, I do think that it'd make a lot of sense for the IHSA and multiple conferences to come together and form a Super Football Conference. My hometown HS, joined the NJ Super Football Conference in 2016 with the goal of creating more competitive matchups while putting every school in a position of strength.

The key part about the Super Conference that people need to understand is that it has 115 teams, each of which are placed into divisions based on number of athletes in the program, W-L record, school size, program history, and then public vs. non-public. The divisions also change every two years, giving teams a chance at moving up or down, leveling out the competition based on all the factors listed above.

I do think that this is something that would work out really well for the IHSA. You still have the head to head format but it's slightly better for every program, creating more competitive matchups.

 

[4Afan]

As someone who is originally from New Jersey and now living in Illinois, I do think that it'd make a lot of sense for the IHSA and multiple conferences to come together and form a Super Football Conference. My hometown HS, joined the NJ Super Football Conference in 2016 with the goal of creating more competitive matchups while putting every school in a position of strength.

The key part about the Super Conference that people need to understand is that it has 115 teams, each of which are placed into divisions based on number of athletes in the program, W-L record, school size, program history, and then public vs. non-public. The divisions also change every two years, giving teams a chance at moving up or down, leveling out the competition based on all the factors listed above.

I do think that this is something that would work out really well for the IHSA. You still have the head to head format but it's slightly better for every program, creating more competitive matchups.

The schools of Illinois just voted on a playoff expansion that allows teams with 3 wins to make the playoffs. There's a zero percent chance enough schools would voluntarily join a super conference for more competitiveness to make it viable.

 

[johnndoe]

Whenever I read about an "involved" playoff system or proposal beyond a straight split, I can not help but be reminded of Ockham's Razor. It is a guiding principle of logic and problem-solving initiated centuries ago that proposed keeping things as simple as possible. Like the US Navy's KISS ("keep it simple, stupid") and medical student advice ("if you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras"). Something new popped for me this time in reading more about it. The more you add to a supposed solution of a perceived problem, the extra assumptions, with their associated probability of errors, compound inaccuracy of the desired fix.

 

[HuskieFan2020]

The schools of Illinois just voted on a playoff expansion that allows teams with 3 wins to make the playoffs. There's a zero percent chance enough schools would voluntarily join a super conference for more competitiveness to make it viable.

Okay, fair point. But I think the difference between the IHSA and the Super Conference is that it doesn't reward teams with losing records. The expanded playoffs allows a team with 2-3 wins to get into the playoffs. The Super Conference doesn't do that, instead requiring teams to win more games than they lost.

Another key part of the Super Conference is that if you're a program that isn't competitive, you get an easier schedule but can't make the playoffs as a condition. Plus the divisions change every two years, all across the board, thus creating more fair and equitable competition.

Where IHSA Football gets caught up is when teams that have no business being in certain conferences remain in the same conferences year after year, giving them an easy path to winning. A Super Conference changes that by moving teams up and down, providing the powerhouse and good programs with a chance to be exposed to more competition.

 

[4Afan]

Okay, fair point. But I think the difference between the IHSA and the Super Conference is that it doesn't reward teams with losing records. The expanded playoffs allows a team with 2-3 wins to get into the playoffs. The Super Conference doesn't do that, instead requiring teams to win more games than they lost.

Another key part of the Super Conference is that if you're a program that isn't competitive, you get an easier schedule but can't make the playoffs as a condition. Plus the divisions change every two years, all across the board, thus creating more fair and equitable competition.

Where IHSA Football gets caught up is when teams that have no business being in certain conferences remain in the same conferences year after year, giving them an easy path to winning. A Super Conference changes that by moving teams up and down, providing the powerhouse and good programs with a chance to be exposed to more competition.

Everything you just said goes directly against what the schools of illinois want. They just voted to allow more teams into the playoffs and prior to that teams were playing mental tetris to do everything they could to make their schedule easy enough to get to 5 wins. The member schools of the IHSA have spoken, they have no desire to be challenged.

As far as conferences go it's different in Illinois because it is such a bigger state than NJ in terms of area that conferences pretty much have to be based on geography versus competitiveness.

 

[Colin2299]

The super conference would end up just being the CCL Blue and ESTL. LWE and no other public would join.

LWE won’t even schedule a private in NC.

 

[Cross Bones]

The super conference would end up just being the CCL Blue and ESTL. LWE and no other public would join.

LWE won’t even schedule a private in NC.

They literally have Rice this year and have played PC and Reeters. I think its the other way around, the ESCC/CCL has 4 school divisions because its members dont want to play in the Blue and they also refuse to request up in playoff class.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

They literally have Rice this year and have played PC and Reeters. I think its the other way around, the ESCC/CCL has 4 school divisions because its members dont want to play in the Blue and they also refuse to request up in playoff class.

Rita plays up almost every year.

CCL has set up its conference to get as many teams in playoffs as possible, they have the advantageous position of have 6 div of 4 teams. There are crossovers and everyone gets a good taste of top competition. Also, there is a wide ranging competition level but again with so many teams they can make divisions for that. Nothing is perfect but for the most part the divisions are of similar talented teams. Say what you want about the CCL but they set up the conference perfectly for the most part.

 

[Colin2299]

They literally have Rice this year and have played PC and Reeters. I think its the other way around, the ESCC/CCL has 4 school divisions because its members dont want to play in the Blue and they also refuse to request up in playoff class.

They last scheduled a private in 2013 and it was a 2-7 Mundelein Carmel team. They played Providence in 2009.

Was unaware they are playing BR this year. That's outstanding.

 

[Cross Bones]

Rita plays up almost every year.

CCL has set up its conference to get as many teams in playoffs as possible, they have the advantageous position of have 6 div of 4 teams. There are crossovers and everyone gets a good taste of top competition. Also, there is a wide ranging competition level but again with so many teams they can make divisions for that. Nothing is perfect but for the most part the divisions are of similar talented teams. Say what you want about the CCL but they set up the conference perfectly for the most part.

I remember discussions here talking about why multiple times state winners shouldnt be in the blue. I recall people here talking about certain programs refusing the move up. How is Marist more similarly talented to MC than Naz? Yes, the 4 team divisions are a great way to solve that problem. But there's no reason Montini, Naz, MC, and Loyola shouldnt be the Blue. We can speculate as to why teams requested up from 6A to 7A. But no one except Loyola requested up to 8A.

Again, the set up was a great solution to the problem. But if they can crossover they can be in the same division. And if they can play MC and Loyola either in conference or crossover, surely they can play LWE in the playoffs.

 

[Cross Bones]

They last scheduled a private in 2013 and it was a 2-7 Mundelein Carmel team. They played Providence in 2009.

Was unaware they are playing BR this year. That's outstanding.

They cant predict Carmel's record lol
But they scheduled: B Mac, Provi (4x), Rita (2x), Montini, and Carmel. Are they supposed to schedule one every year? Sure itd be some entertaining matchups depending on the team.

 

[HuskieFan2020]

Everything you just said goes directly against what the schools of illinois want. They just voted to allow more teams into the playoffs and prior to that teams were playing mental tetris to do everything they could to make their schedule easy enough to get to 5 wins. The member schools of the IHSA have spoken, they have no desire to be challenged.

As far as conferences go it's different in Illinois because it is such a bigger state than NJ in terms of area that conferences pretty much have to be based on geography versus competitiveness.

And to me, that's part of the issue. If these schools are going to prepare young men for life, why shouldn't coaches/ADs/Principals be open to challenging their teams a bit more and scheduling tougher opponents?

You're right about the size of NJ compared to IL. I guess we will see what happens with this expanded playoffs. But I do think a Super Conference, if it works out, could be really good for the IHSA, even though as you've mentioned, it goes directly against what the IHSA member schools want.

 

[HuskieFan2020]

The super conference would end up just being the CCL Blue and ESTL. LWE and no other public would join.

LWE won’t even schedule a private in NC.

I think we have different definitions of Super Conference. Where you're referring to all the powerhouse programs in IL, I am referring to a mega-football conference broken down into divisions. So essentially, a ton of conferences coming together and forming a big league.

 

[4Afan]

I think we have different definitions of Super Conference. Where you're referring to all the powerhouse programs in IL, I am referring to a mega-football conference broken down into divisions. So essentially, a ton of conferences coming together and forming a big league.

That still wouldn't work. Schools jump conferences now looking for more wins and easier paths to the playoffs.

 

[Cross Bones]

I think we have different definitions of Super Conference. Where you're referring to all the powerhouse programs in IL, I am referring to a mega-football conference broken down into divisions. So essentially, a ton of conferences coming together and forming a big league.

We had a Super Conference. It was called the SICA. Broke up like the Fat Boys.

 

[AmbroseBlack]

We had a Super Conference. It was called the SICA. Broke up like the Fat Boys.

Pour some out for the SICA. I miss that conference.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

I remember discussions here talking about why multiple times state winners shouldnt be in the blue. I recall people here talking about certain programs refusing the move up. How is Marist more similarly talented to MC than Naz? Yes, the 4 team divisions are a great way to solve that problem. But there's no reason Montini, Naz, MC, and Loyola shouldnt be the Blue. We can speculate as to why teams requested up from 6A to 7A. But no one except Loyola requested up to 8A.

Again, the set up was a great solution to the problem. But if they can crossover they can be in the same division. And if they can play MC and Loyola either in conference or crossover, surely they can play LWE in the playoffs.

Any time you bring in 24 teams there is going to be issues with how the divisions shake out, can't make everyone happy. Maybe I am wrong but the 4 divisions wasn't a solution to a problem, it was the set up, during initial placing there was some back and forth etc...which should happen, no?

You said no one requests up, I gave Rita as an example. You can't just go dismiss that.

So since Francis, Montini, Fenwick won their respective classes they should request up to 8a and automatically be in the blue?

Brother Rice shouldn't be in the blue?

 

[Cross Bones]

Any time you bring in 24 teams there is going to be issues with how the divisions shake out, can't make everyone happy. Maybe I am wrong but the 4 divisions wasn't a solution to a problem, it was the set up, during initial placing there was some back and forth etc...which should happen, no?

You said no one requests up, I gave Rita as an example. You can't just go dismiss that.

So since Francis, Montini, Fenwick won their respective classes they should request up to 8a and automatically be in the blue?

Brother Rice shouldn't be in the blue?

The issue has always been teams dont want to be in the Blue, whatever the Blue was... at least if I am to believe the CCLers here. However, maybe that changes with 2 win teams making the playoffs. They should see if they can do three 8 team divisions now.

I can dismiss Rita because I meant all the way to 8A (although I didnt say it). Immaculate Conception requested up to 2A (i think), should I credit them for that, a team that battles Loyola?

If Francis, Montini, and Fenwick can compete with MC and Loyola yes they should request up to play their public counterparts. Why should they play the best private schools and then the 6th tier publics?

Montini and Naz are more sustained than Rice, but yes Rice too. I would have 8 schools in the Blue: MC, LA, Naz, Rice, SF, PC, Montini, JC.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

The issue has always been teams dont want to be in the Blue, whatever the Blue was... at least if I am to believe the CCLers here. However, maybe that changes with 2 win teams making the playoffs. They should see if they can do three 8 team divisions now.

I can dismiss Rita because I meant all the way to 8A (although I didnt say it). Immaculate Conception requested up to 2A (i think), should I credit them for that, a team that battles Loyola?

If Francis, Montini, and Fenwick can compete with MC and Loyola yes they should request up to play their public counterparts. Why should they play the best private schools and then the 6th tier publics?

Montini and Naz are more sustained than Rice, but yes Rice too. I would have 8 schools in the Blue: MC, LA, Naz, Rice, SF, PC, Montini, JC.

ESTL loses to Fenwick and they become 6th tier publics!!

 

[Cross Bones]

ESTL loses to Fenwick and they become 6th tier publics!!

No. The 6A class would be 3rd tier. And its not a reflection of any individual school, just the class as a whole. Obviously ESL is top tier and look what they do to the field in 6A. 3A would be the 6th tier.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

No. The 6A class would be 3rd tier. And its not a reflection of any individual school, just the class as a whole. Obviously ESL is top tier and look what they do to the field in 6A. 3A would be the 6th tier.

I was joking.

 

[Cross Bones]

I was joking.

Sometimes you never know on the boards. In the Fenwick/ESL thread they pushed the narrative that Fenwick, in the posh Chicago suburb of Oak Park with Frank Lloyd Wright homes, lawyers falling out of trees and a tuition of nearly 20k per year was the lunch pale and hard hat team, while ESL is an actual manufacturing community. Real nasty work on the board here.

 

[CCHS-Fan]

Laughable Bones!

Summarize Cary-Grove for us, please!!

I’ll assist - that’s a combination of Cary and Fox River Grove.

 

[Cross Bones]

Laughable Bones!

Summarize Cary-Grove for us, please!!

I’ll assist - that’s a combination of Cary and Fox River Grove.

If they need an official report ill be sure to tag you. If they would unlock that conference...