Pope and Developing Bigs

[Aike]

Going to say something nice about Pope for a change of pace.

With Amari Williams at least getting a cup of coffee in the league, and Moreno looking like a potential first rounder sooner than expected, will become harder to knock Pope’s ability to develop pros. At least at the 5 spot.

A recruiting pitch of, “I played in the league, and I’ve put back to back centers into the league after letting the offense at least partially run through them” should work reasonably well. Hard to negative recruit against at least.

You might think their development had little to do with Pope. And maybe you’re correct. But perception becomes reality in recruiting.

Assuming MM leaves, at least hope it helps him snag a serviceable Euro big to fill in the hole at the 5.

 

[CUJO_1970]

While his “measurables” may be great, my perception is that Malachi Moreno did absolutely nothing for us in the postseason.

 

[CatBearPig]

Development has not been a problem under Pope at all. It’s all roster construction, team defense, and baffling line ups.

 

[anot]

Development has not been a problem under Pope at all. It’s all roster construction, team defense, and baffling line ups.

His teams demeanor is my biggest issue. Go whoop the **** out of teams every now and then. Quit letting every team dictate the game from start to finish.

 

[BlueBloodKyFan72]

While his “measurables” may be great, my perception is that Malachi Moreno did absolutely nothing for us in the postseason.

He was like deer in headlights in those games very timid.

 

[DudahUK]

lol. Okay Opie. If you say so. What about Jelly, Garrison, Mo, etc?

 

[NikePrefersDuke]

At least at the 5 spot, the NBA receipts are starting to pile up for Pope.

 

[BBNSZN914]

lol. Okay Opie. If you say so. What about Jelly, Garrison, Mo, etc?

Jelly got better and better. Not sure Mo has more ceiling, and Garrison well….you can have that one…but ya know….Garrison.

 

[Aike]

Development has not been a problem under Pope at all. It’s all roster construction, team defense, and baffling line ups.

I think there’s at least some chatter that players don’t get better under Pope. Matters from a recruiting standpoint, imo.

 

[Aike]

lol. Okay Opie. If you say so. What about Jelly, Garrison, Mo, etc?

“What about Darnell Dodson and Julius Mays? Cal can’t develop guards.”

 

[DudahUK]

“What about Darnell Dodson and Julius Mays? Cal can’t develop guards.”

Yeah they sucked too. How many NBA players has Pope produced?

 

[DudahUK]

Jelly got better and better. Not sure Mo has more ceiling, and Garrison well….you can have that one…but ya know….Garrison.

Jelly got better? Okay. And lol @ Garrison.

 

[BBNSZN914]

Jelly got better? Okay. And lol @ Garrison.

Jelly did get better from start season to finish, by a lot.

That, and the fact he wasn’t SEC quality can both be true.

Idkwtf Garrison was doing.

 

[BigBluefoot]

The only big who has been here under Pope long enough to see if there's development has been Garrison. And with him I saw ZERO development, but that may just he a reflection of the player. I honestly saw no development or something that was added to Jelly, WIlliiams, or Moreno's game during one season here. Williams had to bring the ball up the court due to pg injuries, but I think he had natural ball handling abilities. I have seen no obvious development. Did someone develop a post up shot, footwork, or move that they didn't have earlier in the season?

 

[Aike]

Yeah they sucked too. How many NBA players has Pope produced?

I mean if you just want to be argumentative, have fun with it I guess.

 

[Aike]

The only big who has been here under Pope long enough to see if there's development has been Garrison. And with him I saw ZERO development, but that may just he a reflection of the player. I honestly saw no development or something that was added to Jelly, WIlliiams, or Moreno's game during one season here. Williams had to bring the ball up the court due to pg injuries, but I think he had natural ball handling abilities. I have seen no obvious development. Did someone develop a post up shot, footwork, or move that they didn't have earlier in the season?

The point I’m making is that being able to put back to back bigs in the league should help with recruiting.

We could argue all day about what Pope did or did not do specifically to help either of them. Cal just rolled the balls out, remember?

 

[DudahUK]

I mean if you just want to be argumentative, have fun with it I guess.

I’m not arguing. I said what I said. Like it or don’t. All good buddy. I hold no grudges.

 

[KyKevin]

Development has not been a problem under Pope at all. It’s all roster construction, team defense, and baffling line ups.

And baffling substitutions, that drive a person nuts.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

Going to say something nice about Pope for a change of pace.

With Amari Williams at least getting a cup of coffee in the league, and Moreno looking like a potential first rounder sooner than expected, will become harder to knock Pope’s ability to develop pros. At least at the 5 spot.

A recruiting pitch of, “I played in the league, and I’ve put back to back centers into the league after letting the offense at least partially run through them” should work reasonably well. Hard to negative recruit against at least.

You might think their development had little to do with Pope. And maybe you’re correct. But perception becomes reality in recruiting.

Assuming MM leaves, at least hope it helps him snag a serviceable Euro big to fill in the hole at the 5.

Going to say something nice about Pope for a change of pace.

With Amari Williams at least getting a cup of coffee in the league, and Moreno looking like a potential first rounder sooner than expected, will become harder to knock Pope’s ability to develop pros. At least at the 5 spot.

A recruiting pitch of, “I played in the league, and I’ve put back to back centers into the league after letting the offense at least partially run through them” should work reasonably well. Hard to negative recruit against at least.

You might think their development had little to do with Pope. And maybe you’re correct. But perception becomes reality in recruiting.

Assuming MM leaves, at least hope it helps him snag a serviceable Euro big to fill in the hole at the 5.

What skill did Amari have when he left that he did not come to UK with? He actually played worse defense for Pope than at any point of his career

What skill did Moreno gain playing for Pope?

If anything he got worse as the season progressed. He was almost unplayable at the end of the season.

The NBA has been surprised at the combine because they are seeing things they didn’t know Moreno had.

There’s no way to spin that in Pope’s favor.

If Pope is responsible for anything it’s hindering the growth of players.

The dude built a sand foundation his first year here. It came crumbling down his second season.

 

[WhitakerBankShot22]

His teams demeanor is my biggest issue. Go whoop the **** out of teams every now and then. Quit letting every team dictate the game from start to finish.

I’ll get crushed for saying this but curious if that demeanor changes with Otega gone…scored a ton of points I know

 

[caliman]

Moreno regressed from the beginning of the season to the end. He will be drafted if he stays in, but i wouldn’t call that him being developed. I wouldn’t use Jelavic or Diabate as examples of development either. Garrison got no better in 2 years. That leaves Williams, and each person can make their own determination as to whether he was developed or not.

Honestly, this sounds like an argument Pope’s propaganda manager would make (not saying you are one OP).

 

[Aike]

What skill did Moreno gain playing for Pope?

If anything he got worse as the season progressed. He was almost unplayable at the end of the season.

The NBA has been surprised at the combine because they are seeing things they didn’t know Moreno had.

There’s no way to spin that in Pope’s favor.

If Pope is responsible for anything it’s hindering the growth of players.

The dude built a sand foundation his first year here. It came crumbling down his second season.

That’s the most negative spin you can put on it. Your prerogative. I’m looking for positives because we still have at least one season of this left. Prefer not to be miserable.

 

[Aike]

This went about the way I figured. Hoping Pope putting a couple of 5s in the pros would help us get another quality big. Turned into an exercise in making sure Pope gets no credit for anything positive. But I get it.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

This went about the way I figured. Hoping Pope putting a couple of 5s in the pros would help us get another quality big. Turned into an exercise in making sure Pope gets no credit for anything positive. But I get it.

Same old ****, different day on RR! Nobody will mention how injuries totally derailed both seasons. But I digress. Imagine how good Moreno would’ve been with an actual PG that could get him the ball in scoring position.

 

[DudahUK]

Jelly did get better from start season to finish, by a lot.

That, and the fact he wasn’t SEC quality can both be true.

Idkwtf Garrison was doing.

Agree to disagree? And a million percent agree on Garrison. How was that dude a burger boy?

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Agree to disagree? And a million percent agree on Garrison. How was that dude a burger boy?

Yeah, idk. He’s one of the worst burger boys I’ve ever seen. He’s solid WHEN he’s locked in, though.

 

[DudahUK]

Yeah, idk. He’s one of the worst burger boys I’ve ever seen. He’s solid WHEN he’s locked in, though.

100.

 

[caliman]

This went about the way I figured. Hoping Pope putting a couple of 5s in the pros would help us get another quality big. Turned into an exercise in making sure Pope gets no credit for anything positive. But I get it.

The problem could lie with the wording. You said “Pope and developing bigs”. Yes, you can say that Pope could possibly have 2 bigs that played under him that were drafted. But were they actually developed? I would argue no. Moreno is getting a look because you can’t teach size and he does have some skills. But he had that entering UK. It’s difficult to argue he was developed when he got worse as the season went along. Same with the others.

 

[Aike]

The problem could lie with the wording. You said “Pope and developing bigs”. Yes, you can say that Pope could possibly have 2 bigs that played under him that were drafted. But were they actually developed? I would argue no. Moreno is getting a look because you can’t teach size and he does have some skills. But he had that entering UK. It’s difficult to argue he was developed when he got worse as the season went along. Same with the others.

I actually made this point in the OP.

“You might think their development had little to do with Pope. And maybe you’re correct. But perception becomes reality in recruiting.”

I happen to think the didn’t develop at all argument is a little lazy. But it isn’t easy to refute without it turning into a silly back and forth.

I saw these guys play a handful of games. Didn’t see them in practice. Didn’t see their before and after metrics.

Seems likely to me that they made improvements over the course of several months where basketball was essentially their full time job. And if I’m Pope, I’m sure selling that they did. Probably bringing more specifics, since I was the one who spent that time with them.

 

[CB3UK]

Seems to me:

Amari - got better. I didn't watch him at Drexel, so I have no idea what he was like beforehand. But he definitely improved significantly here in his one season.

Moreno - got worse. Not sure why. Seemed like he lost his confidence. I'm sure that will be rectified this season.

BG - didn't watch him at OSU, but he sure as hell never got good while he was here. It absolutely feels like that's on him though and not Pope.

 

[JPFisher]

lol. Okay Opie. If you say so. What about Jelly, Garrison, Mo, etc?

Having talked to a local coach who sat in on a couple practices, Garrison did absolutely **** -all to get better. Lazy, unfocused, half-effort. All the intangibles but nothing else. You can lead a horse to water.

Mo got better, but he legitimately doesn't work in our system. Also not sure he's all that. There's a reason he rode the pine at Bama.

 

[SenseMaker_Cats]

I think judging any one player off last year’s team is a mistake. That team was so dysfunctional. I don’t know what it was, not even saying it was anything nefarious but that team was a mess.

 

[Adolph B. Calipari]

Going to say something nice about Pope for a change of pace.

With Amari Williams at least getting a cup of coffee in the league, and Moreno looking like a potential first rounder sooner than expected, will become harder to knock Pope’s ability to develop pros. At least at the 5 spot.

A recruiting pitch of, “I played in the league, and I’ve put back to back centers into the league after letting the offense at least partially run through them” should work reasonably well. Hard to negative recruit against at least.

You might think their development had little to do with Pope. And maybe you’re correct. But perception becomes reality in recruiting.

Assuming MM leaves, at least hope it helps him snag a serviceable Euro big to fill in the hole at the 5.

Agreed! I’d also add that it looks like he’ll have five players in the league within two seasons, which isn’t bad at all. Kobe, Amari, MM (hope he stays of course), JQ, and possibly Otega.

 

[Adolph B. Calipari]

I think judging any one player off last year’s team is a mistake. That team was so dysfunctional. I don’t know what it was, not even saying it was anything nefarious but that team was a mess.

Good point. Some of that has to fall on Pope, but I also give him credit for keeping the team fighting for the most part. Other teams/coaches in a similar situation might have come completely off the tracks.

 

[DudahUK]

Having talked to a local coach who sat in on a couple practices, Garrison did absolutely **** -all to get better. Lazy, unfocused, half-effort. All the intangibles but nothing else. You can lead a horse to water.

Mo got better, but he legitimately doesn't work in our system. Also not sure he's all that. There's a reason he rode the pine at Bama.

Oh I believe that. Still wonder why Pope was apparently so fond of him. Especially with what you said.

 

[Crestcat]

Seems to me:

Amari - got better. I didn't watch him at Drexel, so I have no idea what he was like beforehand. But he definitely improved significantly here in his one season.

Moreno - got worse. Not sure why. Seemed like he lost his confidence. I'm sure that will be rectified this season.

BG - didn't watch him at OSU, but he sure as hell never got good while he was here. It absolutely feels like that's on him though and not Pope.

I thought Moreno got better as the season went along and then crashed at the end.

 

[Dr.LutherSan]

Oh I believe that. Still wonder why Pope was apparently so fond of him. Especially with what you said.

As a freshman, Brandon Garrison had 21 points in a win against BYU when Pope was there. I think he probably saw that version of Garrison and was sold.

 

[DudahUK]

As a freshman, Brandon Garrison had 21 points in a win against BYU when Pope was there. I think he probably saw that version of Garrison and was sold.

Who knows? Sounds more reasonable than any other reason I can think of. Lol.

 

[megablue]

As a freshman, Brandon Garrison had 21 points in a win against BYU when Pope was there. I think he probably saw that version of Garrison and was sold.

Just a guess, but I think he recruited Garrison and Kriisa based on games they had against BYU. That is not an indictment of Pope, merely an observational opinion. Not sure about Lamont Butler ... ????

 

[Bluegrass79]

It is true. I mean he is a beginning Coach and he's putting down stuff on paper for players to see...

I have got guys into the league.

There's no arguing that actually