The Entirely Made Up Claim That Corporations Pay No Taxes

[tarheelbybirth1]

Walk me through the math here on the bottom 50%. Because as someone in the top 5%, I pay an overall effective rate in excess of 40% with the taxes you listed. Probably a fair bit more actually.

It would have been more accurate to say they pay a higher percentage in all taxes than many in top 1%. Those folks have lots of ways to avoid paying taxes on the money they use to live. Akcan S. Balkir et.al. found that the overall effective tax rate for the top 100 wealthiest in the 2018-2020 period was 22%, but 26.6% for the next 300. The effective tax rate was 45% for top earners who made their income from wages and salaries (that would be you), as opposed to those whose wealth came from ownership or investment.

Perhaps even more stark and troubling was this: While the wealth of the “top 400” amounted to the equivalent of 2% of U.S. GDP in 1982, it reached 20% of GDP by 2025. About 75% of this rise is attributable to the top 100 wealthiest individuals alone.

 

[fsu1jreed]

I remember, but they still have over 95,000 employees. Surely they can find a couple for audits. Remember also that this debate about corporations and taxes has been going on for decades through both Republican and democrats

Dude, as a lifelong Independent who prior to Biden hadn't voted for a Democrat since Gore, because I read this article, see link, because I naively thought the parties were the same and voting for the lesser of two evil meant you always got an evil............till MAGA showed who the real evil was

The Lesser of Two Evils

Regardless of how respectable the theory, its practice has come a cropper. Today, trimming is so much in vogue that often a voter cannot cast a ballot except

fee.org

 

[scotchtiger]

It would have been more accurate to say they pay a higher percentage in all taxes than many in top 1%. Those folks have lots of ways to avoid paying taxes on the money they use to live. Akcan S. Balkir et.al. found that the overall effective tax rate for the top 100 wealthiest in the 2018-2020 period was 22%, but 26.6% for the next 300. The effective tax rate was 45% for top earners who made their income from wages and salaries (that would be you), as opposed to those whose wealth came from ownership or investment.

Perhaps even more stark and troubling was this: While the wealth of the “top 400” amounted to the equivalent of 2% of U.S. GDP in 1982, it reached 20% of GDP by 2025. About 75% of this rise is attributable to the top 100 wealthiest individuals alone.

This doesn’t make any sense.

First, you talk about the top 5%, which is 17.5 million people. Then you pivot to the top 1%, which is still 3.5 million people.

Somehow, you then make the leap to the top 100, which is a mere 0.0029% of the top 1%, or 0.000029% of the country. Even while noting that you are being more accurate by referencing the top 1%.

I run into this a lot. I can’t tell if the posters are legitimately confused by percentages or are being intentionally misleading with their messaging. My 9 year old has a materially better command of percentages than what is being displayed here, so I have to believe it is the latter. Very unfortunate.

 

[Pharcyded]

what I've never understood is why more people don't ask Bernie and Warren why they don't get the laws changed to avoid corporations from paying zero income taxes as they claim. They're in the Senate, they can't get the votes? I don't know of a single person who does not take advantage of the deductions or credits to limit their income taxes...they follow the law.

So do corporations. If they're violating laws prosecute them. If they're following the laws, isn't that what we expect of them.

Don't blame the corporations, blame the people who make the laws

It’s a Catch-22. The very people responsible for making the laws are financially dependent on the corporations and wealthy donors funding their campaigns. That’s exactly why Citizens United should be repealed. As long as unlimited money flows into politics, elected officials will continue prioritizing donors over everyday Americans.

Bernie Sanders has consistently supported getting big money out of politics, but the reality is there are politicians on both sides of the aisle who will never seriously back reform because the current system helped put them in power. They know that removing corporate influence and massive campaign financing could threaten their positions, so the cycle continues.

When politicians spend countless hours fundraising from wealthy interests, it’s naïve to think those interests won’t shape policy. Until campaign finance reform becomes a priority, the system will keep rewarding money and influence over the public good.

 

[Pharcyded]

so I ask again, whose fault is it that corporations might not pay an income tax? I know in my case, I do my taxes via turbo tax..I put in my income, I then add my deductions, I don't get any credits and the computer spits out what my tax is. Then I pay it.

In the case of a corporation, they likely have a boatload of accountants do the same things. Now, if they are lying on either revenue or expenses, credits or whatever they should be prosecuted. But if they're following the laws, that's what we're asking them to do.

I don't know about anybody else, but I've never send more money in taxes than I owe. I wouldn't expect any body else to. I wonder if the congresswoman does.

But that’s not how it works. The IRS rarely goes after massive corporations because they know they’ll be up against armies of attorneys, accountants, and endless legal delays. Auditing a giant corporation can consume enormous amounts of time and resources, often without producing results that justify the effort.

So instead, the IRS tends to target smaller businesses and ordinary taxpayers because they simply don’t have the same resources to fight back. It’s easier, cheaper, and faster to pressure the little fish than to take on corporations with virtually unlimited legal budgets. That’s the reality of how enforcement often plays out.

 

[m.knox]

Also OP - 50% of Americans pay no INCOME taxes! They are leeches on society!

It's true.

 

[Rastafarian]

Please, please, don't retreat to that idiotic canard. That 50% pays property taxes and sales taxes and FICA taxes and gas taxes and use taxes and a myriad of other taxes to the point that some in that 50% pay a higher effective tax rate on their income than people in the top 5%.

It’s a stupid comment but OP excels in stupidity.

 

[Rastafarian]

It's true.

Goalpost moving. So predictable.

 

[scotchtiger]

It's true.

Looks like the top 1% pays its fair share to me. As I’ve said before, most people should be thanking us instead of vilifying us for not paying enough.

 

[m.knox]

Goalpost moving. So predictable.

Why do you hate facts?

 

[Rastafarian]

Looks like the top 1% pays its fair share to me. As I’ve said before, most people should be thanking us instead of vilifying us for not paying enough.

Good god man

 

[m.knox]

Looks like the top 1% pays its fair share to me. As I’ve said before, most people should be thanking us instead of vilifying us for not paying enough.

Demagoguery is as old as time itself.

Nothing like trying to piss people off because they haven't succeeded in life. All for power and control. It's f'd up.

 

[fsu1jreed]

Looks like the top 1% pays its fair share to me. As I’ve said before, most people should be thanking us instead of vilifying us for not paying enough.

It should be higher...........closer to 50%

 

[Huey Grey 2]

Looks like the top 1% pays its fair share to me. As I’ve said before, most people should be thanking us instead of vilifying us for not paying enough.

They're not. Rich are taking rest of us for a ride.

 

[LafayetteBear]

You could just leave.

Quiet, Piggy.

 

[Rastafarian]

It should be higher...........closer to 50%

Now let’s see who gets the most tax credits and business incentives. They get rich from hiring quality talent but then want to strip funds from the public schools that develop that talent. And get rich from the infrastructure that was paid for by the government and built by blue collar labor, only to respond with “you’re welcome”.

That was maybe the most entitled statement I have read.

 

[TC_Nole_OX]

It's so entertaining when the little folks defend the big folks.


Good boy, OP. Good boy.

Yep

 

[scotchtiger]

It should be higher...........closer to 50%

Do you wander into the premium FSU tailgate lots and shout about how they should donate more so you don’t have to contribute extra to keep up with NIL? It’s the same thing. STFU.

 

[scotchtiger]

They're not. Rich are taking rest of us for a ride.

Nope. I’m in the top 1% and not taking anyone for a ride. If anything, the other 99% are taking me for a ride.

 

[scotchtiger]

Now let’s see who gets the most tax credits and business incentives. They get rich from hiring quality talent but then want to strip funds from the public schools that develop that talent. And get rich from the infrastructure that was paid for by the government and built by blue collar labor, only to respond with “you’re welcome”.

That was maybe the most entitled statement I have read.

Dude I’m a W2 employee and my wife works as well. Our kids go to public schools. We’re not getting rich off striping anything from anyone. You dumb asses can’t seem to differentiate people making a nice living from billionaire business owners, even though the two have virtually nothing in common. It’s insane.

 

[Rastafarian]

Dude I’m a W2 employee and my wife works as well. Our kids go to public schools. We’re not getting rich off striping anything from anyone. You dumb asses can’t seem to differentiate people making a nice living from billionaire business owners, even though the two have virtually nothing in common. It’s insane.

Then don’t expect gratitude from folks for paying your taxes.

 

[scotchtiger]

Then don’t expect gratitude from folks for paying your taxes.

Who is paying my taxes? Tell you what, find everyone paying a higher effective tax rate than I do and we’ll all decide who is paying who’s taxes.

 

[pjhawk]

GREEDY COOOOORPORATIONS!!!

Remember, many on the left WANT to be lied to, and so many are willing to lie to them......

https://www.realclearmarkets.com/ar...m_that_corporations_pay_no_taxes_1182888.html

Every spring just in time for Tax Day Senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders put out media releases touting a report by a liberal economic research group claiming that a long list of American companies have not paid any federal income taxes.

Their statements and the report get widespread media attention, drawing negative attention and criticism to many of America’s leading corporations. In reality, this report and the charges of widespread corporate tax evasion are totally false.

This year Senator Warren declared that “big corporations paid zero in federal income taxes.” She said U.S. corporations “cheat the system,” and “leave hardworking families holding the bag.” Senator Sanders called the findings of the report ‘a disgrace,” and the media parroted all the charges.

Politico, the AP, Newsweek, and USA Today have all covered the report. A Reuters story stated as fact that “experts find widespread corporate tax avoidance.” Fortunately there is a real financial expert who has shown how politicians and the media are using this flawed report to make false accusations against American companies.

Former Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Holtz-Eakin wrote recently that the report and its findings are “entirely made up.” He said that there is “zero, zero, zero evidence of any tax evasion or tax shenanigans in the report,” and that the report was just “a political hit job disguised as a research report.”

Holtz-Eakin, who has had a long distinguished career as an academic economist, explained that the report arrived at its conclusions by looking at companies’ public financial statements filed with the SEC and then “guessing” at their taxable income and tax liability. He pointed out that the report’s authors made the claim the companies paid no taxes without having any access at all to their tax returns, which are confidential and protected.

The report mixes financial accounting profits and taxable profits, which any tax expert would say should never be done. His advice to readers is to “never waste a second reading the report.”

Can you even specifically cite what supposed "lies" were told by Warren, Sanders, generic Dems? I don't see that anywhere in what you posted.

 

[Huey Grey 2]

Nope. I’m in the top 1% and not taking anyone for a ride. If anything, the other 99% are taking me for a ride.

If you really are rich you know better than anyone that our entire financial system is built for rich people. So which one is it? Are you rich? Or are you lying to us about how stacked the financial deck is in your favor?

 

[Huey Grey 2]

Who is paying my taxes? Tell you what, find everyone paying a higher effective tax rate than I do and we’ll all decide who is paying who’s taxes.

How good do your own farts smell? That's what you sound like right now. The banking world alone stacks the deck entirely in favor of people like you.

Stop acting like a system designed to benefit you is somehow a hardship.

 

[Rastafarian]

Who is paying my taxes? Tell you what, find everyone paying a higher effective tax rate than I do and we’ll all decide who is paying who’s taxes.

You expect gratitude for paying your own taxes. How about exercising a little gratitude yourself and appreciating the opportunities you’ve been presented with.

 

[Huey Grey 2]

A good FA alone should be able to deliver 8% annually. Throw in rate breaks on mortgages for having higher assets at your financial institution, access to credit cards with insane benefits that nobody else can get, and a host of other benefits only available to rich people and suddenly the 23% effective tax rate you're paying is offset by a good 10-15% return on everything else you have. And that's being modest.

Getting lectured by someone who is rich how bad they have it is the dumbest crap ever. The whole system is in your favor.

 

[Moogy]

Nope. I’m in the top 1% and not taking anyone for a ride. If anything, the other 99% are taking me for a ride.

As someone who likely makes more in a week than you make in a year, you can STFU.

As someone who made a living ... a handsome living ... structuring biz orgs, reorgs, acqs, etc. to maximize tax benefits/minimize tax liability ... before I switched it up and starting make FU money ... you can STFU 2 times. STFU and then, when you think maybe it's OK to let out a peep because no one is paying attention, right before you open your mouth, STFU, you peon.

Stop being a b!tch. A poor b!tch who wants people to think he's awesome. You could be paying more. You should be. So should I.

 

[baltimorened]

Why do you hate facts?

they key is you have to specifically state "federal income taxes". It dilutes the debate when all the other taxes are included/excluded. Of course everybody pays the extra taxes, but also true that the bottom 50% are paying nothing or very little in federal taxes.

 

[scotchtiger]

If you really are rich you know better than anyone that our entire financial system is built for rich people. So which one is it? Are you rich? Or are you lying to us about how stacked the financial deck is in your favor?

A good FA alone should be able to deliver 8% annually. Throw in rate breaks on mortgages for having higher assets at your financial institution, access to credit cards with insane benefits that nobody else can get, and a host of other benefits only available to rich people and suddenly the 23% effective tax rate you're paying is offset by a good 10-15% return on everything else you have. And that's being modest.

Getting lectured by someone who is rich how bad they have it is the dumbest crap ever. The whole system is in your favor.

Dude what are you talking about? Financial advisors and credit cards? Go to Wealthfront and anyone can get a roboadvisor or index funds which are going to do as well as most advisors. And the only credit card I can think of that meets your description is the Centurion Amex, which I don’t have. And it’s not some magical cheat code for the financial system. And my mortgage is through a regular bank - albeit at 2.875% thanks to a Covid era refi, which was also broadly available at the time.

Walk me through how the deck is so stacked in my favor and please use specifics. I need to start taking advantage of these inequities, apparently.

Your posts seemed to be fueled by an unfortunate combination of bitterness and ignorance.

 

[scotchtiger]

As someone who likely makes more in a week than you make in a year, you can STFU.

As someone who made a living ... a handsome living ... structuring biz orgs, reorgs, acqs, etc. to maximize tax benefits/minimize tax liability ... before I switched it up and starting make FU money ... you can STFU 2 times. STFU and then, when you think maybe it's OK to let out a peep because no one is paying attention, right before you open your mouth, STFU, you peon.

Stop being a b!tch. A poor b!tch who wants people to think he's awesome. You could be paying more. You should be. So should I.

If you actually make 52X+ what I do, congrats. You would actually fit the description of rich that these dorks want to squeeze for more money. My entire point is that I do not, yet the losers on the left keep proposing tax policy that would take more money from my family. You guys can **** right off with that.

 

[Huey Grey 2]

Dude what are you talking about? Financial advisors and credit cards? Go to Wealthfront and anyone can get a roboadvisor or index funds which are going to do as well as most advisors. And the only credit card I can think of that meets your description is the Centurion Amex, which I don’t have. And it’s not some magical cheat code for the financial system. And my mortgage is through a regular bank - albeit at 2.875% thanks to a Covid era refi, which was also broadly available at the time.

Walk me through how the deck is so stacked in my favor and please use specifics. I need to start taking advantage of these inequities, apparently.

Your posts seemed to be fueled by an unfortunate combination of bitterness and ignorance.

I knew this would be your rebuttal. "Anyone can use a FA or anyone can invest in their own." No they can't. Most people only have a couple of thousand dollars available at any given time. If you hold a meeting with a FA with $2-3k in your bank account, he she will tell you you're unfortunately going to be really limited on what you can do. Plug it in yourself and you're still going nowhere.

And there are cards out there with $1000 signing up bonuses, a mere $95 annual fee, and insane points like the Infinite card at WF. That's only for people of wealth. Chase has a card that gives even better points which is also for rich people. If you truly are rich yourself, you need to meet with a FA or at least a Banker, because you are woefully ignorant of the options rich people like you have at your disposal if you think Amex is your only option.

And regular banks, provided they're large enough, offer rate drops as high as 3/4 to a full point off on mortgages for rich people. The more money you have, the lower your rate will be. Yet more ways for rich people to get breaks the rest of us don't have.

No offense but not only do you sound smug in this thread, you also appear completely uneducated on real options only rich people can exercise under our financial system.

 

[Huey Grey 2]

If you actually make 52X+ what I do, congrats. You would actually fit the description of rich that these dorks want to squeeze for more money. My entire point is that I do not, yet the losers on the left keep proposing tax policy that would take more money from my family. You guys can **** right off with that.

You have a 2.75 mortgage rate. I feel so bad the rest of us are screwing you over so badly with that

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

Goalpost moving. So predictable.

The top 1% also hold a third of all wealth in the country. Let that sink in. And that's up 40% over 1990.

For the bottom 50%... 2.5%. Think that's gone up since 1990? LOL...of course not. It's down by over 28%. Still waiting for those tax cuts to trickle down?

 

[Rastafarian]

The top 1% also hold a third of all wealth in the country. Let that sink in. And that's up 40% over 1990.

For the bottom 50%... 2.5%. Think that's gone up since 1990? LOL...of course not. It's down by over 28%. Still waiting for those tax cuts to trickle down?

I think you are confusing me for someone who doesn’t think the system is rigged.

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

This doesn’t make any sense.

First, you talk about the top 5%, which is 17.5 million people. Then you pivot to the top 1%, which is still 3.5 million people.

Somehow, you then make the leap to the top 100, which is a mere 0.0029% of the top 1%, or 0.000029% of the country. Even while noting that you are being more accurate by referencing the top 1%.

I run into this a lot. I can’t tell if the posters are legitimately confused by percentages or are being intentionally misleading with their messaging. My 9 year old has a materially better command of percentages than what is being displayed here, so I have to believe it is the latter. Very unfortunate.

Did I say everyone in the top 5%? Go back and read again and work on your comprehension. Then, realizing that was too broad a net, I reduced it to the top 1%. Did I say the bottom 50% pay a higher effective rate that EVERYONE in the top 1%? Again, reading is fundamental.

Now if you want to argue that everyone in the top 1% pays a higher effective tax rate than EVERYONE in the bottom 50%...have at it. You'll be wrong, of course, but I'm sure you're used to that by now.

The stupidity of feigned entitlement on display.

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

But that’s not how it works. The IRS rarely goes after massive corporations because they know they’ll be up against armies of attorneys, accountants, and endless legal delays. Auditing a giant corporation can consume enormous amounts of time and resources, often without producing results that justify the effort.

So instead, the IRS tends to target smaller businesses and ordinary taxpayers because they simply don’t have the same resources to fight back. It’s easier, cheaper, and faster to pressure the little fish than to take on corporations with virtually unlimited legal budgets. That’s the reality of how enforcement often plays out.

And thousands of new auditors might have moved that needle... so they had to go.

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

I’m in the top 1%...

 

[Moogy]

If you actually make 52X+ what I do, congrats. You would actually fit the description of rich that these dorks want to squeeze for more money. My entire point is that I do not, yet the losers on the left keep proposing tax policy that would take more money from my family. You guys can **** right off with that.

You can **** right off with your ******* right off nonsense. I remember being poor like you decades ago ... I could afford to pay more in taxes, and I benefitted a great deal from the taxes I paid. And since I was in a position to pay them, if the law had provided as such, I would have complied without crying. And if you need more money to afford those taxes - work more, or work smarter. Stop being a slug, you whiny biznatch.

 

[Moogy]

You have a 2.75 mortgage rate. I feel so bad the rest of us are screwing you over so badly with that

I don't have a mortgage ... but I do have 3 homes, each valued in the 7 figure range. I'm so oppressed. You should pay more taxes. Not me. Whoa is me. I'm actually going to sell one of those homes, as the kids are older now, and it's not a worthwhile investment any longer (lake house we don't get to as often ... eventually probably purchase a destination property ... or maybe something closer to the kids if/when they settle elsewhere, if it isn't around here ... right now the homestead and the localish beach house are sufficient for our needs and wants) ... but the taxes I'll have to pay! Whoa is me! Can't believe I have to support you little people. It's not right. It's not fair.