Great piece from USA Today on Big 10 and Fox pulling strings for 24 team CFP

18IsTheMan

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Basically, Fox woefully underbid for the 12-team CFP. They are pushing the 24-team CFP with the Big 10 taking the lead to try getting back in the game.

Interestingly, I didn't realize they had changed from having 4 AQs from the Big 10 and SEC to having 23 at-large bids (1 additional for the sacrificial lamb from G6). So they basically bribed the ACC into joining them by giving them the possibility of greater representation with the at-large bid model.

I mentioned yesterday about the shifting power dynamic between the Big 10 and SEC, but it also goes for ESPN and Fox. I've long felt that ESPN pulled all the strings for college football. They do NOT want a 24-team CFP (for their own selfish reasons). So it's set up as a battle royale between ESPN/SEC and everyone else. One thing in ESPN/SEC's favor: nobody really wants the 24-team CFP. I haven't any positive reporting on it. Fans, surprisingly, don't want it for the most part. The article lays out what some of the first round games would have been last year: UNLV/Boise State and Syracuse/Arizona State. You can slap the CFP logo on those games all you want. Nobody wants to watch UNLV/Boise State.
 
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Piscis

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Basically, Fox woefully underbid for the 12-team CFP. They are pushing the 24-team CFP with the Big 10 taking the lead to try getting back in the game.

Interestingly, I didn't realize they had changed from having 4 AQs from the Big 10 and SEC to having 23 at-large bids (1 additional for the sacrificial lamb from G6). So they basically bribed the ACC into joining them by giving them the possibility of greater representation with the at-large bid model.

I mentioned yesterday about the shifting power dynamic between the Big 10 and SEC, but it also goes for ESPN and Fox. I've long felt that ESPN pulled all the strings for college football. They do NOT want a 24-team CFP (for their own selfish reasons). So it's set up as a battle royale between ESPN/SEC and everyone else. One thing in ESPN/SEC's favor: nobody really wants the 24-team CFP. I haven't any positive reporting on it. Fans, surprisingly, don't want it for the most part. The article lays out what some of the first round games would have been last year: UNLV/Boise State and Syracuse/Arizona State. You can slap the CFP logo on those games all you want. Nobody wants to watch UNLV/Boise State.
23 at large bids is basically an end of season tournament among the teams in the top 25.

This is peak "everybody gets a trophy".
 

18IsTheMan

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23 at large bids is basically an end of season tournament among the teams in the top 25.

This is peak "everybody gets a trophy".
The sad thing is, that’s what some people want. The article made it clear there are people who simply want to hear their team made the CFP, even if they are team # 24. “Just keep expanding it until it’s large enough for us to actually make it so we can say we were a playoff team.”
 

atl-cock

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Basically, Fox woefully underbid for the 12-team CFP. They are pushing the 24-team CFP with the Big 10 taking the lead to try getting back in the game.

Interestingly, I didn't realize they had changed from having 4 AQs from the Big 10 and SEC to having 23 at-large bids (1 additional for the sacrificial lamb from G6). So they basically bribed the ACC into joining them by giving them the possibility of greater representation with the at-large bid model.

I mentioned yesterday about the shifting power dynamic between the Big 10 and SEC, but it also goes for ESPN and Fox. I've long felt that ESPN pulled all the strings for college football. They do NOT want a 24-team CFP (for their own selfish reasons). So it's set up as a battle royale between ESPN/SEC and everyone else. One thing in ESPN/SEC's favor: nobody really wants the 24-team CFP. I haven't any positive reporting on it. Fans, surprisingly, don't want it for the most part. The article lays out what some of the first round games would have been last year: UNLV/Boise State and Syracuse/Arizona State. You can slap the CFP logo on those games all you want. Nobody wants to watch UNLV/Boise State.
Would you watch those as bowl games?
 

18IsTheMan

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Would you watch those as bowl games?
no

I can't imagine a scenario where I'd watch a UNLV/Boise State game. Even if they somehow made it to the title game, I can't imagine myself watching it. Maybe in the old days when there was the Thursday night game on ESPN, it's a game I would have put on for background noise while I was doing other things.
 
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PrestonyteParrot

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It took some time, but college sports has now become a money game instead of a school loyalty game.
Except for the case mentioned above where there are those who just want to hear their school name and CFP mentioned in the same sentence.
 
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18IsTheMan

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It took some time, but college sports has now become a money game instead of a school loyalty game.
Except for the case mentioned above where there are those who just want to hear their school name and CFP mentioned in the same sentence.
I heard a commentator yesterday who noted the one thing that really set college football apart from every other sport is that the regular season mattered. Unlike all pro sports or most other college sports, in college football, a team HAD to have a great regular season to even think about a shot at the national title. In just about any other sport, you can have a so-so season and still make it to some sort of postseason with at least a shot to win the title. Sadly, that's where college football is heading. Even if the 24-team CFP doesn't come to fruition, the 16-team will, which means you will see a team or teams with 3 regular season losses get in. I think even 12 teams is too many b/c you're getting teams in who very clearly have no shot whatsoever at the title. Never in the history of college football has anyone ever thought that a team ranked outside the top 5 or so at the end of the regular season was title worthy. There is quite a bit of drop off from #1 to #10.

Everything else aside about how absurd that is. It just means the college football regular season doesn't mean anything any longer. It was unique and special among all the other sports. For some reason people decided more teams needed a shot. That requires ignoring the irrefutable logic that EVERY team has a shot. EVERY team gets 12 games to prove they deserve a shot. Then you have the argument that it's good for the sport to keep more fan bases engaged. Well, let's take that "logic" to the max and just have a 100+ team CFP at the end of the season.

There was no sound rationale for expanding to a 12-team CFP. It was transparently a purely financial decision, and there's no argument to made otherwise. No one thinks, or ever has thought, there are 12 title worthy teams at the end of the year. Further expansion is only compounding the stupidity.

One could hope further expansion will adversely impact ratings for regular season games. When teams can absorb 3-4 losses and still make the CFP, there is no one game that is must watch in the regular season.
 

PrestonyteParrot

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I heard a commentator yesterday who noted the one thing that really set college football apart from every other sport is that the regular season mattered. Unlike all pro sports or most other college sports, in college football, a team HAD to have a great regular season to even think about a shot at the national title. In just about any other sport, you can have a so-so season and still make it to some sort of postseason with at least a shot to win the title. Sadly, that's where college football is heading. Even if the 24-team CFP doesn't come to fruition, the 16-team will, which means you will see a team or teams with 3 regular season losses get in. I think even 12 teams is too many b/c you're getting teams in who very clearly have no shot whatsoever at the title. Never in the history of college football has anyone ever thought that a team ranked outside the top 5 or so at the end of the regular season was title worthy. There is quite a bit of drop off from #1 to #10.

Everything else aside about how absurd that is. It just means the college football regular season doesn't mean anything any longer. It was unique and special among all the other sports. For some reason people decided more teams needed a shot. That requires ignoring the irrefutable logic that EVERY team has a shot. EVERY team gets 12 games to prove they deserve a shot. Then you have the argument that it's good for the sport to keep more fan bases engaged. Well, let's take that "logic" to the max and just have a 100+ team CFP at the end of the season.

There was no sound rationale for expanding to a 12-team CFP. It was transparently a purely financial decision, and there's no argument to made otherwise. No one thinks, or ever has thought, there are 12 title worthy teams at the end of the year. Further expansion is only compounding the stupidity.

One could hope further expansion will adversely impact ratings for regular season games. When teams can absorb 3-4 losses and still make the CFP, there is no one game that is must watch in the regular season.
Correct, The regular season is a 100+ team playoff to get to the CFP
 

Harvard Gamecock

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I strongly suspect many on here would have a change of heart the minute Carolina is hovering around the #23 ranking. Then all of a sudden, a intense interest on the #23 or #24 slot of who gets in, and where they play the game.

Just for the record. No, I am not interested in expanding to a 24 team playoff. However, I have resigned myself to the prospect of a 16 or 24 team playoff as inevitable.
 
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PrestonyteParrot

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I strongly suspect many on here would have a change of heart the minute Carolina is hovering around the #23 ranking. Then all of a sudden, a intense interest on the #23 or #24 slot of who gets in, and where they play the game.

Just for the record. No, I am not interested in expanding to a 24 team playoff. However, I have resigned myself to the prospect of a 16 or 24 team playoff as inevitable.
Yes, money will dictate this inevitable outcome regardless of what is best for the sport.
 

Harvard Gamecock

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Mario Cristobal on the prospect of a 24 team playuoff.

However, Miami coach Mario Cristobal, in an appearance last week on ESPN's "This Is Football," said he wasn't in favor of a 24-team playoff and would rather finish the regular season earlier, have one bye week and then start playoff games.

"I'm not for the 24-team thing," Cristobal told ESPN's Kevin Clark. "That's a lot. Why play a regular season then? And I'm certainly not for automatic bids ... like, why? It's not a beauty pageant. It's not a beauty contest. It's competition. Go win. Go win on the field, and guys that deserve it, get in, and figure it out from there."
 

Piscis

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Mario Cristobal on the prospect of a 24 team playuoff.

However, Miami coach Mario Cristobal, in an appearance last week on ESPN's "This Is Football," said he wasn't in favor of a 24-team playoff and would rather finish the regular season earlier, have one bye week and then start playoff games.

"I'm not for the 24-team thing," Cristobal told ESPN's Kevin Clark. "That's a lot. Why play a regular season then? And I'm certainly not for automatic bids ... like, why? It's not a beauty pageant. It's not a beauty contest. It's competition. Go win. Go win on the field, and guys that deserve it, get in, and figure it out from there."
Cristobal didn't mind the "beauty pageant" aspect last season when Miami got in the CFP over Notre Dame, who beat Miami in the regular season, because Miami "looked good".
 

Piscis

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I strongly suspect many on here would have a change of heart the minute Carolina is hovering around the #23 ranking. Then all of a sudden, a intense interest on the #23 or #24 slot of who gets in, and where they play the game.

Just for the record. No, I am not interested in expanding to a 24 team playoff. However, I have resigned myself to the prospect of a 16 or 24 team playoff as inevitable.
I think it would be embarrassing to be passionate about fighting for that #24 spot in the CFP. I think it is embarrassing for basketball fans to be upset because their team who was "on the bubble", didn't get into March Madness as a 16 seed. The lowest seeded team to ever win the NCAA basketball tournament was an 8 seed, and it has only happened once, in 1985.

I know some will argue that, if you get in the CFP "you have a chance", "any given Saturday", etc.. Those people are fools. Getting in as a #23 or #24 seed would mean you would have a chance of getting your teeth kicked in by a team that is actually worthy of championship consideration.

12 is too many. 8 would be ideal. 3 rounds played over four weeks, with a bye week before the championship game. Take the top 8 ranked teams, no one would argue the best team wasn't one of those. Even if you ended up with 4 B1G teams, 3 SEC teams and 1 other team, there would be no argument that the best teams didn't play for the championship.
 
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18IsTheMan

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I strongly suspect many on here would have a change of heart the minute Carolina is hovering around the #23 ranking. Then all of a sudden, a intense interest on the #23 or #24 slot of who gets in, and where they play the game.

Just for the record. No, I am not interested in expanding to a 24 team playoff. However, I have resigned myself to the prospect of a 16 or 24 team playoff as inevitable.
You beat me to it, but I was going to address those on here who have said they are in favor of expansion b/c it's our best shot of getting in.

I have no interest in a sympathy bid. As a matter of principle, I was not in favor of us making it a couple years ago with 3 losses. If we were to ever get in, I want it to be because we earned it. Not b/c they continually lowered the bar until we couldn't help but get in.

Not only are they obliterating the significance of the regular season, they are watering down the significance of the CFP. It's the same thing that happened to bowl games, just at an accelerated pace. A few decades ago, making a bowl game was truly an accomplishment. You had to have, at the least, a good season, and in many cases a very good season. Now you can have a bad season and get a bowl game. The 4-team CFP created very compelling matchups...games that anyone would want to watch between great teams. That's already been lost with the 12 team format and will be exponentially worse with 16 or 24.

But, yes, it is inevitable. There's money to be had. It's becoming the Golden Corral of sports. Crap product but profitable.
 

Harvard Gamecock

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Cristobal didn't mind the "beauty pageant" aspect last season when Miami got in the CFP over Notre Dame, who beat Miami in the regular season, because Miami "looked good".
Both teams were 10-2, and liked you said Miami beat ND. If it comes down to only one being selected then logically the tiebreaker goes to head on head competition.
 

18IsTheMan

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I think it would be embarrassing to be passionate about fighting for that #24 spot in the CFP. I think it is embarrassing for basketball fans to be upset because their team who was "on the bubble", didn't get into March Madness as a 16 seed. The lowest seeded team to ever win the NCAA basketball tournament was an 8 seed, and it has only happened once, in 1985.

I know some will argue that, if you get in the CFP "you have a chance", "any given Saturday", etc.. Those people are fools. Getting in as a #23 or #24 seed would mean you would have a chance of getting your teeth kicked in by a team that is actually worthy of championship consideration.

12 is too many. 8 would be ideal. 3 rounds played over four weeks, with a bye week before the championship game. Take the top 8 ranked teams, no one would argue the best team wasn't one of those. Even if you ended up with 4 B1G teams, 3 SEC teams and 1 other team, there would be no argument that the best teams didn't play for the championship.
Even 8 is too many, but far better than what there is now. For sure, once you get past 8, you're just dealing with championship-caliber teams. What we have seen in college football is that there is a pretty steep drop-off from 1-10. It's not a gradual gradient. There's usually a pretty decent gap between top 2-3 teams and those around 5 or so and then a gap for those around 10. At least with an 8-team CFP you would still have desirable matchups as opposed to the 12 team or anything larger. And, no, G5 teams do not deserve a spot. I don't care if one goes 12-0 with an average margin of victory of 45 points.
 

Lurker123

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Cristobal didn't mind the "beauty pageant" aspect last season when Miami got in the CFP over Notre Dame, who beat Miami in the regular season, because Miami "looked good".

Yeah, I think you worded that wrong. Miami beat ND in the regular season.

Thats the opposite of being a beauty pageant.

Imho, I think the complaint about beauty parents is going to come up more as conferences go to 9 game schedules. With less and less inter conference games to gage the teams by, we're going to have teams arguing over conference reputation over records to get in the playoffs.
 
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Piscis

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Yeah, I think you worded that wrong. Miami beat ND in the regular season.

Thats the opposite of being a beauty pageant.

Imho, I think the complaint about beauty parents is going to come up more as conferences go to 9 game schedules. With less and less inter conference games to gage the teams by, we're going to have teams arguing over conference reputation over records to get in the playoffs.
You are correct. Still, Miami got in despite losing twice in the regular season and not even winning their division in the ACC because they "looked good" and "passed the eye test".

This is why the committee needs to go away and playoff participants are chosen based on some objective criteria that is determined by on field results. I'd be fine with the CFP being 4 teams made up of the 4 P4 conference champions. Notre Dame would not be eligible for the playoff unless they joined a P4 conference.
 
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Harvard Gamecock

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You are correct. Still, Miami got in despite losing twice in the regular season and not even winning their division in the ACC because they "looked good" and "passed the eye test".

This is why the committee needs to go away and playoff participants are chosen based on some objective criteria that is determined by on field results. I'd be fine with the CFP being 4 teams made up of the 4 P4 conference champions. Notre Dame would not be eligible for the playoff unless they joined a P4 conference.
Alabama lost 3 times, once to a very bad FSU team, twice in the their last 4 games, the last game losing to UGA in a game that the outcome was never in doubt. Obviously they did not win their conference as well.
That is not "looking good" or even "passing the eye test"
 

18IsTheMan

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Alabama lost 3 times, once to a very bad FSU team, twice in the their last 4 games, the last game losing to UGA in a game that the outcome was never in doubt. Obviously they did not win their conference as well.
That is not "looking good" or even "passing the eye test"
Just additional proof that the 12-team CFP is ridiculous.
 
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atl-cock

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no

I can't imagine a scenario where I'd watch a UNLV/Boise State game. Even if they somehow made it to the title game, I can't imagine myself watching it. Maybe in the old days when there was the Thursday night game on ESPN, it's a game I would have put on for background noise while I was doing other things.
If the Rebels and Broncos were able to make it through several rounds of FBS playoffs to the title game, they deserve to be there. Anybody who can survive that deserves it.

Nonetheless, I do respect your aversion to watching it. Me? I might out of curiosity.
 
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atl-cock

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Even 8 is too many, but far better than what there is now. For sure, once you get past 8, you're just dealing with championship-caliber teams. What we have seen in college football is that there is a pretty steep drop-off from 1-10. It's not a gradual gradient. There's usually a pretty decent gap between top 2-3 teams and those around 5 or so and then a gap for those around 10. At least with an 8-team CFP you would still have desirable matchups as opposed to the 12 team or anything larger. And, no, G5 teams do not deserve a spot. I don't care if one goes 12-0 with an average margin of victory of 45 points.
Let G5 have their own playoff bracket.
 
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18IsTheMan

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If the Rebels and Broncos were able to make it through several rounds of FBS playoffs to the title game, they deserve to be there. Anybody who can survive that deserves it.

Nonetheless, I do respect your aversion to watching it. Me? I might out of curiosity.
Part of the problem that fuels CFP expansion in the minds of some (not saying you) is the fascination with the "what if?" scenarios. People extrapolate the NCAAT Cinderella to the CFP.

But it just isn't happening. There will NEVER be in CFP the equivalent of a #8 seed in the NCAAT winning the title. It's simply impossible. But some people are enamored with thinking it could happen, even though it's an absolute impossibility.
 

atl-cock

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Part of the problem that fuels CFP expansion in the minds of some (not saying you) is the fascination with the "what if?" scenarios. People extrapolate the NCAAT Cinderella to the CFP.

But it just isn't happening. There will NEVER be in CFP the equivalent of a #8 seed in the NCAAT winning the title. It's simply impossible. But some people are enamored with thinking it could happen, even though it's an absolute impossibility.
A mid-major team is often thrilled with just the opportunity to play in a Valley - Death (either) or Happy. The MAC champion playing a first-round game in State College has no illusions, even when giving their best shot.
 

18IsTheMan

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A mid-major team is often thrilled with just the opportunity to play in a Valley - Death (either) or Happy. The MAC champion playing a first-round game in State College has no illusions, even when giving their best shot.
Is it good for the sport to create those kinds of matchups in the postseason then?

I know we were treated to lots of clips of ecstatic JMU fans as they faced off against Oregon in the CFP last year, but when did it become a function of the CFP to make fan bases happy?
 

Piscis

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Let G5 have their own playoff bracket.
I have had the solution to all of this for years, but it will never happen.

There needs to be 8 12 team conferences, geographically oriented, that make up what is now FBS. The 35 or so teams that get left out will need to drop down to FCS and Notre Dame will need to get over themselves and join a conference or, stand on principle and not be eligible to play in the playoff. FCS could continue with their 24 team playoff.

The playoff would consist of the 8 conference champions in a three round playoff. Each conference could decide on its champion however it saw fit. They could have a conference championship game, vote on a champion, use the regular season head to head matchups or take the highest ranked team in the conference. Every team would play a minimum of 10 conference games and up to 2 OOC games against teams from the other 7 conferences, no one would be allowed to play an FCS team. The 7 playoff games each year would rotate through sites with suitable stadiums.

This would insure that whoever was crowned "national champion" had truly won the title on the field. There would be no polls or committee to determine who had a chance to play for the championship. Participation in the playoff would be determined by on field results.
 

Piscis

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A mid-major team is often thrilled with just the opportunity to play in a Valley - Death (either) or Happy. The MAC champion playing a first-round game in State College has no illusions, even when giving their best shot.
Making mid major programs and their fans happy is not the purpose of the CFP, nor should it be the purpose of scheduling in general. P4 teams should not be allowed to schedule any FCS teams, no matter how happy the FCS team is to play in a big stadium. G5 teams are sort of a grey area. They aren't FCS, but they aren't much better most of the time.

I know about the argument that the G5 and FCS teams need the revenue from the beat downs they take to fund their programs. My response is; if they are running on margins that are so tight they have to take on the role of Christians in the Roman Coliseum, they might need to rethink having a football program altogether.
 

18IsTheMan

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Making mid major programs and their fans happy is not the purpose of the CFP, nor should it be the purpose of scheduling in general. P4 teams should not be allowed to schedule any FCS teams, no matter how happy the FCS team is to play in a big stadium. G5 teams are sort of a grey area. They aren't FCS, but they aren't much better most of the time.

I know about the argument that the G5 and FCS teams need the revenue from the beat downs they take to fund their programs. My response is; if they are running on margins that are so tight they have to take on the role of Christians in the Roman Coliseum, they might need to rethink having a football program altogether.
I agree. FCS games need to go away altogether. I think most are generally in favor of that. There is no value to them. For anyone involved.
 

Lurker123

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Part of the problem that fuels CFP expansion in the minds of some (not saying you) is the fascination with the "what if?" scenarios. People extrapolate the NCAAT Cinderella to the CFP.

But it just isn't happening. There will NEVER be in CFP the equivalent of a #8 seed in the NCAAT winning the title. It's simply impossible. But some people are enamored with thinking it could happen, even though it's an absolute impossibility.

Miami did us no favors in this regard last year.
 

18IsTheMan

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Miami did us no favors in this regard last year.

Well, yeah, I know people will say "look at Miami!" But they lost. So it really doesn't prove anything. They also got a very easy path.

That said, a #10 seed in the 12-team CFP is probably equivalent to #3 seed in the NCAAT.
 

Harvard Gamecock

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Well, yeah, I know people will say "look at Miami!" But they lost. So it really doesn't prove anything. They also got a very easy path.

That said, a #10 seed in the 12-team CFP is probably equivalent to #3 seed in the NCAAT.
WHAT ????
@ TAMU
#2 seed Ohio St
#6 Ole Miss (after defeating UGA)

There was nothing easy about that path.
You want to hate on Miami, then hate, but don't spout nonsense.
 

18IsTheMan

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WHAT ????
@ TAMU
#2 seed Ohio St
#6 Ole Miss (after defeating UGA)

There was nothing easy about that path.
You want to hate on Miami, then hate, but don't spout nonsense.
A&M was overrated. Had a cakewalk schedule through the SEC and lost to the only good conference team they played, Ole Miss was incomplete without Kiffin. They, no doubt, had the most favorable path in the CFP.
 

Harvard Gamecock

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A&M was overrated. Had a cakewalk schedule through the SEC and lost to the only good conference team they played, Ole Miss was incomplete without Kiffin. They, no doubt, had the most favorable path in the CFP.
Defeating 3 teams that are ranked in the top ten in 3 consecutive weeks is hardly considered easy, or can be dismissed by whatever measure or excuse you wish to employ.
 
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Lurker123

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Well, yeah, I know people will say "look at Miami!" But they lost. So it really doesn't prove anything. They also got a very easy path.

That said, a #10 seed in the 12-team CFP is probably equivalent to #3 seed in the NCAAT.

Miami lost in the title game. People will point to that when someone says "why even have a 2 loss team in the playoffs" or now when they say "teams that arent in the top 8 cant really compete anyway".

The horrible results of the teams with byes, coupled with Miami this year go against what I thought would the (lack of) competitiveness of early rounds and lower ranked seeds.
 
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KingWard

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I strongly suspect many on here would have a change of heart the minute Carolina is hovering around the #23 ranking.
Sure they would, but that wouldn't make a 24-team playoff the right thing. Any football playoff system should minimize pretenders for the sake of credibility, length of season, and attrition issues alone. And that isn't to mention the diminishment of regular season urgency, which ought to be a major factor - THE major factor.