Pope's SRS (performance vs schedule) average for 2 seasons at UK is 20.19

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

This is when these national champion coaches since 1991 matched or bettered this 2 year average at the schools they won a title

Tom Izzo season 4 and 5

Dean Smith season 10 and 11

Billy Donovan season 4 and 5

Coach K season 5 and 6

Nolan Richardson season 5 and 6

Danny Hurley season 5 and 6

Todd Golden season 3 and 4

Scott Drew season 17 and 18

Tony Bennett season 6 and 7

Jay Wright season 13 and 14

Jim Calhoun season 8 and 9

Gary Williams season 9 and 10

Lute Olson season 4 and 5

Jim Harrick never accomplished it in 8 seasons at UCLA

Rick Pitino season 3 and 4 at UK season 3 and 4 at UL

Kevin Ollie never matched it in 6 seasons at UConn

Jim Boeheim season 12 and 13

Tubby Smith season 1 and 2 Bill Self season 2 and 3

Roy Williams season 1 and 2 Dusty May season 1 and 2 John Calipari season 1 and 2

4 of the last 22 National championship coaches bettered Pope's SRS average in their first two seasons at their respective schools.

Can be found here

DI Men's Basketball Championship History | NCAA.com

Here are the programs which have won the NCAA men's basketball championship.

www.ncaa.com

and here

John Calipari Coaching Record | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

John Calipari Coaching Record

www.sports-reference.com

 

[Mossip]

Posted in wrong thread and need to edit out some snark (I’m a grouchy bltch in the morning). Will repost in the other Paul stat thread later with a better tone lol

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Just shows stats dont tell the whole story. Win something that matters in year 3 or fire him.

 

[AllBall]

Optimistically, I'm predicting a 20-11 or 19-12 regular season record. With a baseline round of 32 exit and Sweet 16 ceiling.

It could end up much worse, but I highly doubt the results are any better.

 

[mjj_2K]

I'm not going to rag on numbers, and appreciate attempts at objective evaluation, but I think those numbers are missing the baffling inconsistency and number of no-show performances we've seen in 2 seasons. 26 losses in 2 years is magnified by the fact that 14 of them were by double-digits.

 

[kfwa]

I'm not going to rag on numbers, and appreciate attempts at objective evaluation, but I think those numbers are missing the baffling inconsistency and number of no-show performances we've seen in 2 seasons. 26 losses in 2 years is magnified by the fact that 14 of them were by double-digits.

I'd agree, you can't be getting bombed by 20 points and not be competitive one night and then beat a final four team 2 days later. At any rate, at least that comparison provides some hope.

I honestly think last year, Pope badly misjudged the kids he recruited and he wasn't prepared to deal with the ego of these kids driving porsches around school knowing that another school would pay them more the following year.

My hope is that MP demands performance from these kids, shortens the rotation (knowing that kids will still screw him even if he gives them playing time when they don't earn it - looking at you Jasper ) and expects his stars to play 36 minutes a game.

 

[TFCat11]

I could pick this argument apart blind folded, but if you need me to instead of doing it yourself, your not adept with men’s CBB enough either way.

But, here’s a bone to chew on… N.I.L.

 

[caliman]

I see the propaganda machine is churning hard this morning.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

If everything is fine and on track then why are we watching a poorly coached team every game?

Why doesn’t the team play hard for 40 minutes every game?

Pitino’s first year at UK was 14-14. No one thought the team was poorly coached. No one thought the team didn’t play hard every game.

But now that season can be used to excuse Pope??

Doesn’t seem right!!

 

[BlueBomb]

I sincerely hope that some of you are teenagers or in your early 20s at worst. Otherwise, you should strongly consider "adulting" your conversation skills.

 

[FitchandMurray29]

The schedule(predominantly focusing on the SEC) improving while we declined as a program(with and without Cal) was terrible timing.

It happened so quickly that I don’t think fans truly processed what’s happened.

In 2014 where we lost 11 games, we played one ranked program from January to the start of the NCAAT(Florida x3). Outside of UK, only two SEC teams made the tournament.

In 2011 we lost 9 games. We did not play one game all season(not counting NCAAT) against a top 10 team. Vandy and Florida were the only other SEC KenPom top 50 teams that year.

The schedule and injuries provide important context for the Pope era, they don’t excuse it. He gets another shot this year. The recruiting and on court success either improve or he’s gone next March/April.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

I could pick this argument apart blind folded, but if you need me to instead of doing it yourself, your not adept with men’s CBB enough either way.

But, here’s a bone to chew on… N.I.L.

NIL where you just buy a fresh team has not proven to get better results than those coaches that kept their teams three or four years to become a cohesive competitive team

 

[CatManFromCa]

Have you doomers forgotten Mark Pope out‑coached BOTH Rick Pitino and John Calipari last season? Out‑coached them. Out‑schemed them. Out‑executed them.

Because I don’t hear a single one of the RP & Cal lovers bringing that up anymore.
Funny how that works.

 

[nicky]

Optimistically, I'm predicting a 20-11 or 19-12 regular season record. With a baseline round of 32 exit and Sweet 16 ceiling.

It could end up much worse, but I highly doubt the results are any better.

Either of those 2 records MAY just buy him another year....unfortunately

 

[CatBearPig]

We should hang an SRS banner.

 

[Goingfor9]

I didn't create these stats I just compiled some of it from an unbiased source. You sure get wicked butt hurt when anything contradicts you whiner agenda. Obviously you have no counter for facts so you resort to doing the gay troll thing. What is with your irrational hatred of Pope? Does your boyfriend have the hots for him or something?

What’s you point? UK isn’t on the job training. The longest UK coach went was pitino and that was due to probation. Ratface before Duke was a household name same with the cheaters. Some serious grasping at straws there. Here’s another stat. We have zero national championships from coaches who didn’t make the elite eight at uk in year 1 going all the way back to joe B. Pope went to the computer lab and found a bunch of hard core nerds to do things like this. These types of posts are straight from Barney’s playbook.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

This argument is pretty weak.

Ok then should we make the schedule easier so Pope can win?

The SEC is harder now. Strength of schedule is probably going to be pretty rough for the foreseeable future. We need a coach that can handle that.

Or we can lose a lot, then after the fact make excuses and say "well we had a hard schedule".

If Pope can't handle the schedule, he should go to a weaker conference more suited to his skill level as a coach. I'm thinking a mid-major located in the Pacific Northwest would be perfect for his coaching style and the players he recruits.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

These types of posts are straight from Barney’s playbook.

Yeah this thread reeks of Mitch. Smells like mothballs and Werther's candies

 

[Anon200440]

I could care less about the wins and losses, put out an exciting an entertaining product for one

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

I could care less about the wins and losses, put out an exciting an entertaining product for one

you're weird

 

[UK BasketballFan]

Factor in Pope spent 22M on a mediocre team also gave an injured player millions to play 4 games. His teams weren’t ready to play when the games started falling behind by 16 points or more points 12 times or 1/3 of the time. Went 0-14 on top 20 recruits that visited the campus. Factor all of these duties as a coach in one of the worst coaching performances in the history of the school.

 

[Anon200440]

you're weird

I said I could care less, if u only care about wins that's fine, but I watch kentucky basketball to be entertained

 

[20MRoster]

NIL where you just buy a fresh team has not proven to get better results than those coaches that kept their teams three or four years to become a cohesive competitive team

The National Champion last year basically bought a new lineup over the summer and sprinkled in a 5 star HS recruit in the lineup

 

[SpamFilter]

This is when these national champion coaches since 1991 matched or bettered this 2 year average at the schools they won a title

Tom Izzo season 4 and 5

Dean Smith season 10 and 11

Billy Donovan season 4 and 5

Coach K season 5 and 6

Nolan Richardson season 5 and 6

Danny Hurley season 5 and 6

Todd Golden season 3 and 4

Scott Drew season 17 and 18

Tony Bennett season 6 and 7

Jay Wright season 13 and 14

Jim Calhoun season 8 and 9

Gary Williams season 9 and 10

Lute Olson season 4 and 5

Jim Harrick never accomplished it in 8 seasons at UCLA

Rick Pitino season 3 and 4 at UK season 3 and 4 at UL

Kevin Ollie never matched it in 6 seasons at UConn

Jim Boeheim season 12 and 13

Tubby Smith season 1 and 2 Bill Self season 2 and 3

Roy Williams season 1 and 2 Dusty May season 1 and 2 John Calipari season 1 and 2

4 of the last 22 National championship coaches bettered Pope's SRS in their first two seasons at their respective schools.

Can be found here

DI Men's Basketball Championship History | NCAA.com

Here are the programs which have won the NCAA men's basketball championship.

www.ncaa.com

and here

John Calipari Coaching Record | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

John Calipari Coaching Record

www.sports-reference.com

Your list is meaningless because you're confounding 2 different stats, first year in their careers or first year at a school.
Mark Pope has coached for 11 years now. He just happen to have started at other schools. A lot of these coaches were much younger than Pope when they accomplished and their career were still on the way up.

People consistently fail to take into account age when evaluating Pope's performance, he's not some young up and comer, he's an established coach who is either at his peak or already past his peak.

For example, did you know that Dean Smith in his 10th and 11th season was 42-43 years old?
Same for a the next few names on your list. Tom Izzo was 44-45 in his year 4-5. Donovan was 35-36. K was 39-40, Richardson was 49-50, so was Danny Hurley. Golden was 39-40. Bennet was 44-45.

Mark Pope turns 54 this year. The Pope UK has is probably the best Pope UK will ever see. If anything, he'll be starting to decline.

 

[20MRoster]

Your list is meaningless because you're confounding 2 different stats, first year in their careers or first year at a school.
Mark Pope has coached for 11 years now. He just happen to have started at other schools. A lot of these coaches were much younger than Pope when they accomplished and their career were still on the way up.

People consistently fail to take into account age when evaluating Pope's performance, he's not some young up and comer, he's an established coach who is either at his peak or already past his peak.

For example, did you know that Dean Smith in his 10th and 11th season was 42-43 years old?
Same for a the next few names on your list. Tom Izzo was 44-45 in his year 4-5. Donovan was 35-36. K was 39-40, Richardson was 49-50, so was Danny Hurley. Golden was 39-40. Bennet was 44-45.

Mark Pope turns 54 this year. The Pope UK has is probably the best Pope UK will ever see. If anything, he'll be starting to decline.

This is an excellent point. In another thread, I listed out several hall of fame and newly upcoming coaches, and one commonality in the high performers was an NCAAT win in their 30s. This goes back to Dean Smith, K, Knight, Ole Roy etc and includes new guys like Hurley, Golden. Pope was in his 50s when he had his first NCAAT win. Age is a thing -- you can't reverse father time. There is much more room to grow as a coach if you start your success early. K got to where he was at 60 because of those lumps in his 30s.

 

[TheApostleSaulSmith]

People consistently fail to take into account age when evaluating Pope's performance, he's not some young up and comer, he's an established coach who is either at his peak or already past his peak.

Damn that's a scary thought

 

[SpamFilter]

Damn that's a scary thought

It is, but if you look at coaches' careers in aggregate, the general pattern is that they peak from the mid 40s to their mid 50s. The great ones tend start their peak earlier, in the late 30s early 40s, and there are late bloomers who start off in the late 40s and go into their late 50-early 60s.

Even someone like Kelvin Sampson, whos seems to be peaking in the 60s. It's not actually true, he went to the FF with OK as a 46 year old. He just had his career and the best years of his coaching career from late 40s to late 50s, torpedoed by the scandal at IU, that led to him being an NBA assistant for a 7-8 years, then having to come back and completely rebuild a Houston program from scratch.

There is no example I found of someone who improve and peak in their mid 50s or later.

 

[Zuma75]

Have you doomers forgotten Mark Pope out‑coached BOTH Rick Pitino and John Calipari last season? Out‑coached them. Out‑schemed them. Out‑executed them.

Because I don’t hear a single one of the RP & Cal lovers bringing that up anymore.
Funny how that works.

No doubt if you put together a "Mark Pope coaching highlights" video, it would be full of impressive accomplishments ...

 

[mjj_2K]

Your list is meaningless because you're confounding 2 different stats, first year in their careers or first year at a school.
Mark Pope has coached for 11 years now. He just happen to have started at other schools. A lot of these coaches were much younger than Pope when they accomplished and their career were still on the way up.

People consistently fail to take into account age when evaluating Pope's performance, he's not some young up and comer, he's an established coach who is either at his peak or already past his peak.

For example, did you know that Dean Smith in his 10th and 11th season was 42-43 years old?
Same for a the next few names on your list. Tom Izzo was 44-45 in his year 4-5. Donovan was 35-36. K was 39-40, Richardson was 49-50, so was Danny Hurley. Golden was 39-40. Bennet was 44-45.

Mark Pope turns 54 this year. The Pope UK has is probably the best Pope UK will ever see. If anything, he'll be starting to decline.

This is a totally valid point, but Pope is slightly different because he got a late start in coaching due to a lengthy playing career.

But it is right to compare him to guys who had put in over a decade, regardless of age. And by that standard he's been decent but nothing special. He could have stayed at BYU and they would have been happy enough at the time, but they didn't panic when he left. If he wanted something besides BYU, his choices would have been schools at about that same level- mid tier major conference programs.

Decent just isn't good enough at UK, so he has to show more to really deserve any more time.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Just shows stats dont tell the whole story. Win something that matters in year 3 or fire him.

Just shows your emotions do not always match the facts.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

I'm not going to rag on numbers, and appreciate attempts at objective evaluation, but I think those numbers are missing the baffling inconsistency and number of no-show performances we've seen in 2 seasons. 26 losses in 2 years is magnified by the fact that 14 of them were by double-digits.

It does include and consider all those factors.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

I'd agree, you can't be getting bombed by 20 points and not be competitive one night and then beat a final four team 2 days later. At any rate, at least that comparison provides some hope.

I honestly think last year, Pope badly misjudged the kids he recruited and he wasn't prepared to deal with the ego of these kids driving porsches around school knowing that another school would pay them more the following year.

My hope is that MP demands performance from these kids, shortens the rotation (knowing that kids will still screw him even if he gives them playing time when they don't earn it - looking at you Jasper ) and expects his stars to play 36 minutes a game.

It does consider margin of victory or loss and quality of opponent.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

I could pick this argument apart blind folded, but if you need me to instead of doing it yourself, your not adept with men’s CBB enough either way.

But, here’s a bone to chew on… N.I.L.

NIL is the popular crutch to lean on when faced with inconvenient facts.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

If everything is fine and on track then why are we watching a poorly coached team every game?

Why doesn’t the team play hard for 40 minutes every game?

Pitino’s first year at UK was 14-14. No one thought the team was poorly coached. No one thought the team didn’t play hard every game.

But now that season can be used to excuse Pope??

Doesn’t seem right!!

Emotion and objective analysis are two different things. Nobody has claimed everything is fine and on track or that Pope is comparable to an early 90's Pitino in any way. If I could trade for that era of Pitino the choice would be very easy but that option is not on the table.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

We should hang an SRS banner.

Just what we needed. More ignorant strawman sarcasm.

 

[kfwa]

It does consider margin of victory or loss and quality of opponent.

I'm glad there is something positive but it doesn't pass the eye test for fans who watched Gonzaga/North Carolina

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

I'm glad there is something positive but it doesn't pass the eye test for fans who watched Gonzaga/North Carolina

Those games clearly sucked. This metric gives a more accurate depiction of the entire reality as opposed to the emotional reaction to the disappointments.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

It is, but if you look at coaches' careers in aggregate, the general pattern is that they peak from the mid 40s to their mid 50s. The great ones tend start their peak earlier, in the late 30s early 40s, and there are late bloomers who start off in the late 40s and go into their late 50-early 60s.

Even someone like Kelvin Sampson, whos seems to be peaking in the 60s. It's not actually true, he went to the FF with OK as a 46 year old. He just had his career and the best years of his coaching career from late 40s to late 50s, torpedoed by the scandal at IU, that led to him being an NBA assistant for a 7-8 years, then having to come back and completely rebuild a Houston program from scratch.

There is no example I found of someone who improve and peak in their mid 50s or later.

The fact they matched this number at an earlier age is of course mostly just because their coaching careers started at an earlier age.

Sampson didn't get his first tournament win until his 12th season after going 0-5 previously. Sampson was in his 15th season (all at P5 schools) as a head coach when he made the Final Four at Oklahoma. He then made the elite eight eight the following season and then it would be 10 more seasons coaching until he made another Sweet 16 in 2019. It was his 28th and 29th season as a head coach at age 66 before he matched a two season SRS average to what Pope posted his first two seasons here. Sampson's peak has been after 60 yrs old with just three truly notable seasons in '02-'03,and '08 prior to that.

Kelvin Sampson Coaching Record | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Kelvin Sampson Coaching Record

www.sports-reference.com

 

[Ash Williams]

This is when these national champion coaches since 1991 matched or bettered this 2 year average at the schools they won a title

Tom Izzo season 4 and 5

Dean Smith season 10 and 11

Billy Donovan season 4 and 5

Coach K season 5 and 6

Nolan Richardson season 5 and 6

Danny Hurley season 5 and 6

Todd Golden season 3 and 4

Scott Drew season 17 and 18

Tony Bennett season 6 and 7

Jay Wright season 13 and 14

Jim Calhoun season 8 and 9

Gary Williams season 9 and 10

Lute Olson season 4 and 5

Jim Harrick never accomplished it in 8 seasons at UCLA

Rick Pitino season 3 and 4 at UK season 3 and 4 at UL

Kevin Ollie never matched it in 6 seasons at UConn

Jim Boeheim season 12 and 13

Tubby Smith season 1 and 2 Bill Self season 2 and 3

Roy Williams season 1 and 2 Dusty May season 1 and 2 John Calipari season 1 and 2

4 of the last 22 National championship coaches bettered Pope's SRS in their first two seasons at their respective schools.

Can be found here

DI Men's Basketball Championship History | NCAA.com

Here are the programs which have won the NCAA men's basketball championship.

www.ncaa.com

and here

John Calipari Coaching Record | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

John Calipari Coaching Record

www.sports-reference.com

Please list how many of those coaches went zero for 14 in top sought-after recruits after year two. Kthxbai

 

[RunninRichie]

Mark Pope fans are a cancer to UK.