Help the billionaires
- Thread starter Rastafarian
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While I think my man @baltimorened is trivializing the issue a bit, I think the "money in politics" issue is overstated (at the federal level, at least) and is a little too convenient of an excuse, for my tastes. I don't think repealing Citizens United or resinstating the Fairness Doctrine are going to meaningfully improve things.
An excuse for what?
And for what it's worth, I agree that legislation is probably an ineffective way to reinstate anti-corruption norms. But more than likely this endgame capitalism spiral is probably just how it's going to be until there is some sort of catastrophic event that forces a mass change in values.
whoa, I didn't give any thought on the amount of money in politics, only on super PACs being controlled by billionaires. If we're talking about money in politics, I think,there's too much money in politics. And, it becomes a competition on who can come up with the most to support their candidates,,,billionaires/millionaires contribute, then unions have to contribute more, and the race goes on.
I like it much better when I could just get my company PAC to make our contributions so I could get my representatives
"to do what I wanted"
EDIT: while hoping to avoid the accusation of changing the subject....based on my experience, money- contributions - get you in the door - jobs in the district/state get you the vote.
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A excuse to remove accountability from voters.
Billionaires have written literal tax code and regulations.
That's almost certainly not true, if you are talking about income tax.
Surely you know that. If so, why would you say something like that?
If you were trying to be funny, then I apologize. I'm too new here to assume that was humor.
They get a stepped up basis but are then subject to estate taxes which amount to about $40 billion per year. Of course there are ways to avoid/minimize estate taxes. Ask your buddy LB how we should deal with that.
I'd love to have examples of that...I'm not discounting your statement, but in my experience no one can understand the tax code without a lawyer...So writing the code, unless the billionaire is a lawyer, would really seem to me at least to be somewhat over the top.
Not saying you're incorrect, but it would be interesting to see the tax code written by a billionaire.
It didn’t say income tax did it Einstein? It said tax and it’s almost certainly my true.
you might not believe this, I'm really a wild and crazy guy, not boring at all. It's just that I'm older (and wiser) than most of you and I've had a heck of a lot more experience is many more areas - military (to include combat) NATO, lobbying, business development, and International business - than most of you..
So when I see definitive statements that, in my opinion, are not accurate, I just like to point that out. TBH, it doesn't seem as if others are unwilling to tell me when I am wrong - and I am sometimes.
Didn't your parents tell you to respect your elders
So, in other words, you responded to a discussion about income tax with a comment about tax but not income tax, and didn't think people would object to your deliberate bait and switch?
That's pure troll behavior there. Well done, if you want to be viewed as a troll instead of a civilized discussant.
So what I'm hearing is there's a ton of tax avoidance. Which is what we've been saying.
Everybody tries to minimize their income tax burden. Billionaires are no different. The question is what special breaks do they get and my response is very little. In fact most credits/deductions that average people get are phased out for those with high incomes.
The tax the rich crowd like to talk about loopholes but most of them can't identify a single one. Instead they hang their hat on the fact that billionaires don't pay tax on unrealized capital gains. Neither does anybody else.
There are things that I oppose on moral grounds but accept because we don't have much choice given our debt situation. We get taxed on what we earn (income tax), on what we own (property tax), on what we buy (sales tax), and what we have left after we die (estate tax). Government spending is at a record 38% of GDP and I think that's horrible. But we are where we are. I think estate taxes are immoral but we can't afford to give up another $40 billion per year. Estate taxes are also some of the easiest to avoid because assets are placed in a corporation or trust that never dies. IMO if you really want to go after billionaires assets this is a good place to look.
I can't recommend this book too highly. Should have won the Pulitzer, imo. I'm pretty sure things have gotten even worse since this came out. [Mayer herself is a Pulitzer nominee, and this book in particular was nominated for several awards.]
I don’t think he meant they literally wrote it, but that they literally paid enough in lobbyist dollars to get tax laws written how they want. I take no position on whether that is true or false.
What laws did billionaires pay to have written wrt to personal income tax?
I can accept that argument. But Billionaires are not alone in that context...so are multiples of lobbyists...from all walks of of life - unions, beer distributors, pro life-choice groups..you name it.
Of course that applies to everybody. Your heirs get your stocks, house, cars, collectibles and other family heirlooms at a stepped up basis so how is this just for billionaires?
When someone dies, their estate is taxed at death on the full value of the assets. If the heirs then sell those assets, they would face capital gains tax based on the original purchase price — effectively taxing the same money twice: once at death and again when sold. To prevent this, the IRS allows the basis (the starting point for calculating capital gains) to “step up” to the market value at the time of death. This has been part of the tax code for 110 years.
Except estates of less than 20 million, in which case it's taxed NEVER. I don't care if it's been part of the code for over 100 years, it shouldn't be. Slavery was legal for 100s of years too.
I also think you should know that I could not care less about something being "taxed twice".
We've been talking about billionaires, especially the handful that have a new worth over $100 billion. Are you now back to millionaires or are you upset that billionaires can exclude 1/100th of 1% of their net worth from estate taxes?
You would probably care if it was you who was getting taxed twice.
I don't know why formatting doesn't work on mobile.
Billionaires can shelter much more of their estate than that as you know.
I think step up basis shouldn't exist for anyone. I happen to think I should pay for more taxes too.
I'm double taxed all the time, so far as I can tell. My income is taxed and it's taxed "again" when I buy things and "again" when it accumulates capital gains. I just don't care.
I'd contest this is even a double tax. The gains are taxed and then the wealth transfer is taxed. It's two different things and again, even if it was "double taxed" (whatever the hell that even means) I DO NOT NOT CARE. It's a silly argument.
Do you think people should have their homes appraised every year and be taxed on the gain in value?
Do you think you should be taxed on $400k if your parents leave you their home they paid $100k for a home they lived in for 30+ years and was worth $500k when they died?
You said "Do you think people should have their homes appraised every year and be taxed on the gain in value?"
uhhh, this happens every year for my property taxes. There is an annual assessment. During the housing boom, my property taxes increased $2400. My escrow payment went up by $200 a month (as part of my mortgage payment). To be fair, it went down some after the value of my house decreased in later years.
Am I missing something in your comment?
Home isn't worth $100k. It's worth $500k. So you should pay taxes on actual value.
I don't believe you'll be able to find a single time I've championed an unrealized gains tax.
Yes, but with a possible consideration to recognizing the carve out we get now for the sale of a primary home. If you want to factor inflation into capitals gains tax that's fine but that's a separate conversation.
Taxing unrealized gains is pretty much the entire argument when it comes to billionaires not paying "their fair share".
Maher is 100% correct. I support a progressive tax system that taxes the ultra wealthy more than they're currently being taxed. My reason is that we have a nearly $40 trillion debt that is growing rapidly. An additional $50 billion per year from the ultra wealthy would reduce the deficit by 2.5%. That's not much but it's better than nothing. The problem is democrats would use the additional $50 billion to justify $100 billion of additional social welfare spending.
I disagree. That's one very specific proposal that most serious people think is stupid (to include myself). I'd personally champion (and it's not limited to this):
- Raising capital gains taxes
- Removing step up basis
- Increasing the estate tax
- Figuring out some way to generate tax revenue when the fat cats take loans against their wealth without realizing any gains (though eliminating step up basis may mostly resolve this)
I find it interesting that you keep pivoting back to arguments that I haven't made instead of continuing to address the ones that I am making.
I keep hearing that billionaires don't pay tax because they don't sell and realize the gain on their appreciated assets. How would you get more of Elon Musk's