Baye Fall actually got picked up ? Thats amazing
BB Recruiting Kansas State transfer center Dorin Buca commits to Rutgers
- Thread starter Richie O
- Start date
Such an exciting game for him - I thought that was going to be his coming out party... he gave us some flashes here and there.
With his size and athleticism, there’s no way he wouldn’t have been enticing to a coach who thinks he can develop him.
Fall may have been a historic recruiting miss by everyone. I don’t like being negative, but he’s unplayable and you might be better playing 4 on 5 than 5 on 5 with him on the court (re: CCSU game ).
He must of had a Life Alert.
This is a real Fall from grace story
I’m not familiar with most teams back ups but Notre Dame certainly would take him. Their back up right now may have played less than Ware. I’m guessing that’s why they added Dortch.
Don't ask questions if you didn't want an answer, but your life alert post was definitely of value for all. Pot, kettle and all that.
You're answer basically carried the same weight as the global warming wind bags on The View.
You know all the back up centers AND watch The View? Seriously man, go outside. I'll invite you for a round of golf next time we have an opening for a 4th.
Ask better question, that's not purely nonsense, you can have a better answer tho.
Impossible to know for sure what those guys would do, but in terms of taking a chance, the floor is much higher the route we went and when your searching to fill a back up role, that’s far more important than the upside (probability adjusted). The chance of any of them turning out to be a super star is low, so perhaps the 2 unknowns would have slightly more upside but they could also turn out like Denis or even Fall. We couldn’t afford that as we need to fill this role for 10-12 min minimum so this was the right decision.
Your simply not making any senses. I’m happy with the pick up but there’s nothing in the paper metrics (only quantitative data to point to) that says we’ve added a back up who is leaps and bounds better than EO. We get it - you didn’t like him and your happy he’s gone, but the points your making just don’t have fact supported merit.
You say no high majors would want EO as a back up - I don’t follow who the back ups are on most teams, but without digging into the numbers, I think you’d have a hard time finding too many Washingtons in the pool of teams that didn’t make tourney (i.e. rosters stacked with multiple guys you could make a clear case are better than EO). He’d probably win the back up role on close to half of high major rosters out there if I had to render a guess. It certainly wouldn’t be less than a third.
I am kinda shocked and really sorry that fans really don't understand how much of a deficit RU played with, in regards to Ogbole vs the other starting 5 (or hybrid PFs at the 5) in the B1G. There is no possible way anyone can look at these numbers below and think Ogbole is even a backup for this level of competition.....
Here are the starting 5 men for the teams that MISSED the NCAAs from the B1G....I would not even entertain including the bigs from actual B1G rosters who made the Dance.....I just want to keep things in perspective, since people want to twist arguments into "why compare Ogbole to the Michigan, MSU, Purdue or Illinois starting big man.....I am just keeping this contained to the teams who MISSED the NCAAs from the B1G.....these are PPG, RPG and BPG
Alexis 9-5-1 21 MPG Indiana
Crocker Johnson 13-7-1 31 MPG Minnesota
Cofie 10-7-2 30 MPG USC
Page 10-5-1 23 MPG Northwestern
Evans 13-7-1 31 MPG Oregon
Steinbach 18-12-1 34 MPG Washington
Washington 10-9-1 23 MPG Maryland
Juric 10-5-0 23 MPG Penn State
Ogbole 4-6-1 19 MPG Rutgers
I don't quite understand anyone arguing for Ogbole as even a backup, because he essentially played almost 20 MPG and landed with 4PPG.
Whats most stressful to try and understand is that Ogbole played his first 20 games against Power 5 opponents this past season and scored just 63 points in those 20 games.....which is 3PPG
In the last 5 games, Ogbole scored
13 at MSU
5 vs PSU
10 vs Minnesota in B1G tourney
8 vs UCLA in B1G tourney
6 vs Creighton in Crown
Thats 42 of his 105 points scored against Power 5 opponents.
Now, if a fan wants to take the final 5 games of Ogbole and say he averaged 8PPG and 6 Boards and use that as the argument for keeping him, it would be something of a very small sample size.
What is somewhat concerning is that Ogbole is a 5th year senior and probably not likely to average 8PPG in 19 MPG if he played a back up role.....but I have some of the same fans, very reluctant to jump on the Lino Mark or Kaden Powers bandwagon, given they are freshman and showed improved play from November to March....speaking of Mark mostly, who averaged around 11PPG or so in his last dozen or so games, which is a much bigger sample size than Ogbole at 4PPG.
Considering 4PPG is a full 6PPG less than any other player at the 5 spot in our league for teams that missed the NCAAs, how does anyone logically think if he goes from 19MPG down to 10 to 12, that he would even produce 2PPG or something??
Playing with a 6 to likely 10 PPG deficit, before we even begin to discuss the other 20 minutes per game, is wild stuff.....
There isnt any logical explanation (to me), if someone looks at the numbers and sees the bare minimum productivity should be 10PPG and 6 RPG, for ths bottom half of our league and thinks Ogbole should find minutes on the floor....
Can you not read? We were talking about BACK UPs. Not starters. That other poster first said Buca is a CLEAR upgrade over Ogbole. He then doubled down and said no BIG team / high major would take him as their back up either. Go ahead - do what you did again - but for guys who back up a starter. Nobody said Ogbole should start. Not one poster.
@Richie O can you step in and stop the bickering here? It's making the thread unreadable
Alright guys we can have a civil debate here without name calling.
No Richie. We obviously can't. Such is the human condition that a back up center on an also-ran basketball team causes extreme hostility.
It is funny how triggered and attached some are to Ogbole, this type of triggered attachment for Cam Spencer might make total sense, that I would totally get for a real player. But for Ogbole?!?!?! Who cares, whoopdie damn dooh if he’s not playing here anymore.
Won't argue with much of what you said, but is also not like he touched the ball a lot in our offense.
Very compelling argument as to why Ogbole shouldn’t be a starter in the Big Ten. Amazing that Rutgers was able to win 7 Big Ten games without an adequate center. The center position will likely be the most improved position on next year’s team. As for whether he would have been a better backup than Buca, Pikiel couldn’t count on Ogbole being eligible so he had no choice but to replace him.
Only watched a limited amount of minutes of Buca playing. He doesn’t appear to be the rebounder that Ogbole was defensively but appears to do a good job going for offensive rebounds. Was something watching Buca block shots without jumping. Not sure he is better than Ogbole as a backup, but hope he will be. Like Ogbole, Buca does not appear to be someone who will do much offensively other than turn the ball over.
No - not directly. Rather, you called out everyone who said it would be tough to find someone better than him and said - I told you so. That implies you believe he’s a very clear upgrade. The point I was making is not an opinion - the paper facts per 40 do not support that conclusion. Nor do EO’s paper facts per 40 suggest that he wouldn’t win the back up role at any other BIG school. Washington had a bunch of BIGs with some talent that ended up being a waste since Steinbach barely left the floor. I called you out to explain based on the data how all the other bottom half BIG team back ups at the 5 are decisively better. For some reason Hawk responded by comparing him with a list of starting 5s. No clue why since again, nobody ever said he should be that.
The advance stats support he's a slight upgrade but you cling to the per 40 which are useless because no one plays 40 minutes or can keep up that production with no rest during a game.
Not all the stats suggest this. It’s a mixed bag suggestive of net neutral- Ogbole isn’t close to as turnover prone so that certainly is a concern for starters. But I’m not clinging to anything. I simply said we did not land a decisive upgrade at back up and there is no available data suggestive of otherwise. The closest would be a per 40 block rate which is Buca’s best attribute by far and you just said you don’t value per 40 data.
Just to add - we also have some fans arguing we added a non-player like Fall which is just ridiculous. The reality is squarely in the middle. We’ve upgraded the center room in 2 key ways. 1) by virtue of having 2 playable centers instead of 1 we’re automatically better. Dortch doesn’t count as a 5. Neither does Buchanan. 2). Gurdack is a clear upgrade, while Buca similar to Ogbole
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At 7’2” Buca is literally a big upgrade over Dortch who was shoved around by some of the bigger centers in the Big Ten. That being said after watching Buca play limited minutes at center vs Indiana last year, his game looks like it needs work. I did like how Buca didn’t even consider jumping when the Indiana player did some pretty good fakes or when the Indiana player finally took a shot only to get his shot blocked by Buca who was just standing there.
Agreed. I’m happy with the pick up but I don’t think this is a case of us clearly bringing in 2 centers are better than what we had last year in Ogbole - rather it’s that we have someone better than Ogbole as our starter and someone who at worst, won’t be significantly worse than Ogbole as our back up. That’s very different from saying our back up is a clear upgrade over our prior year starter which isn’t true.
Your love fest and trying to justify Ogbole as alright power4 center might get you out in time out by Richie! You watched the games and I don’t care what stat sheet you use. Great guy but come on you know he can’t play at this level
Aren’t you the guy who keeps saying we didn’t have a single player who belonged on a power conference roster last season and meanwhile 2 of our reserve players (Dortch and Nwuli) were just picked up by other power conference teams. So perhaps your exaggerating how bad each guy is individually.
Very fair remind me again which two power 4 schools? Let’s them play first before we go crazy. RU players transferring don’t fair to well in the playing time or starting.
I stand behind my statement. More then half the team is gone and of those who stayed maybe Francis is a 7/8 man on a good team.
Your argument is flawed for a number of reasons.
1) Ogbole would only need to be a backup for one P4 team — he doesn’t have to have better stats than the other 5 B1G starters you mentioned just to be considered a decent backup center for a P4 team.
2) You left out the field goal percentages. Ogbole shot 60% while guys like Crocker-Johnson shot 42% and Evans shot 45%. A backup center should only be taking high percentage shots and Manny does that. I don’t want my center shooting in the mid to low 40s, even as a starter.
3) Manny doesn’t put you at a 6 to 10 point deficit just because he shoots less. Those shots are taken by other players. I could argue that guys like Crocker-Johnson put his team at a deficit by only shooting 42% and taking shots away from teammates who shot higher than that. At 60%, Manny never took shots away from a teammate with a higher shooting percentage.
4) Manny averaged 6 rebounds and 1 block in 19 minutes. Evans and Crocker-Johnson averaged 7 rebounds and 1 block in 31 minutes. Clearly Manny could be considered a backup compared to those starters, especially when you factor in his much higher shooting percentage.
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I've tried pointing this out many times, it's like talking to walls. Suddenly 8 points out of the center position will mean everything. Who cares if that has to come from the points of someone else because the previous center didn't actually take shots. EO would make an OK, if not average back up center. We all know he's not a starter. We all know we've upgraded the position overall.
It’s actually pretty funny at this point. Our 4th string center (who only earned 46 min of playing time all season at RU) just found a new home with a MWC team (only one notch below power conference level league). And we still have fans who are insisting no power conference team would want to add Ogbole.
You keep “rolling it forward”. Conveniently allows you avoid admitting you were wrong. Obviously - the success level these players (and don’t forget Fall in the MWC - ha ha) is still TBD so nobody can be wrong yet on a future prediction.
But you (and others) said nobody would want any of the players on our roster and that was clearly not true as 3 of our deep reserves landing in the ACC, BE and MWC. No matter how hard you or anyone else tries - these outcomes prove beyond pretty much any reasonable doubt that if Ogbole was known to have another year of eligibility - he would get picked up by a high major if he wanted a back up role. He may choose, like Grant did, to go somewhere that he’d be expected to start. But never mind what your opinion (or Life’s or anyone else) is on how you think he or our other transfers will do in the future. It was factually inaccurate that no other team would want any of these players. You were wrong.
So 1 Power 4 school? Now let’s see him play then I will gladly admit I was wrong if he plays decent mins and contributes!
Conveniently you’re ignoring more than half the roster left and 1 was signed by a power 4 team! (ND which is half in conference half out and the HC is on his way out)
ND plays in thr ACC for basketball. Seton Hall was a bubble team in the BE. Those are power conferences for basketball. And Baye Fall - who was beaten out at center, not only by Ogbole, but also Dortch and Buchanan, is in the MWC.
It doesn’t matter what happens next - the point is, whatever little these players did last season was enough to warrant interest to land in these places where fans like you said nobody would want anyone on our roster, let alone our deep reserves. Baye Fall finds a home in the MWC, and you think Ogbole isn’t getting offers from better places than him? Come on man. Again - this isn’t about what happens next. Clearly - you weren’t right about other teams view of our players.
If they think our players are good, what must they think of our coaches?
notice how he moved the goal post
first is was - no one will want them
then when they got picked up by p4 schools/ MWC it changes to - well let’s see how they do
You were wrong