Was requested four days ago. Don’t know why it took them so long to update it. Also, they emailed me saying it won’t work with the apostrophe. So this is now my name.
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Case Study: Defining the Kentucky Standard: What the Data Actually Shows Since 1985
- Thread starter Im The Village Idiot
- Start date
Was requested four days ago. Don’t know why it took them so long to update it. Also, they emailed me saying it won’t work with the apostrophe. So this is now my name.
Those aren’t hard numbers the numbers that include outlier seasons. Like you know the losing cal season and our near death penalty status after the Eddie Sutton debacle. I mean this guy started at 1985 so he includes the two worst seasons in 100 years.. and Eddie Sutton’s last season losing record that was the first losing season for UK in almost 60 years. No one talks about that, but that’s gotta be some kind of record. Nevertheless, you go and determine the standard with our two worst seasons in the last 100 and you leave out everything else. No good data is when you drop the outliers. You know picking 1985 was a random choice. So no hard numbers. They’re cherry picked. They exclude a national championship that was 17 years before these numbers. Instead of the 78 title the Eddie Sutton tenure is included. It’s not real numbers to include the probation years or the covid year where there were zero fans and we had a losing seasons. Those weren’t normal situations Eddie sudden probation near death penalty and a season where there were no fans. A good analyst would definitely drop that from their data set. So no those are not hard numbers. You guys are insufferable in your pursuit to brainwash people into thinking these are normal times for UK basketball. Young millennials and Gen Z just keep looking at things that justifies our losing. The justifies what you’ve grown up with what you’re seeing. If you’re gonna arbitrarily pick a time how about picking 1992 start the 91-92 season. You can’t include freaking probation years where we were precluded from even qualifying for the tournament. And drop the COVID year for better yet drop all the seasons after cal got his lifetime contract. See what it looks like then.. because like I said, this is cherry picking so do it right and drop these outlier bad seasons that aren’t in the stratosphere of Kentucky standard.
I didn’t read all that but your last sentence makes no sense. You’re simultaneously calling out my post for “cherry picking” while also asking me to remove “outlier seasons”.
He leaves a lot out. What about sec titles and sec tourney titles? Meaningless? When’s the last time we won one of those? No Dude, the stats are cherry picked. If you’re gonna do it right, you’re gonna start 91-92 season when we could actually play in the tournament and you would remove the outlier Covid season. It’s not about hard numbers. It’s about honest numbers.. and we couldn’t play basketball for a couple years we couldn’t recruit. A lot of guys don’t remember that because you weren’t born then so you think you’re just in a cherry pick the number you’re just gonna pick the number 1985. But you don’t know how the program knows dived right after 1985 couldn’t even recruit.. so no those aren’t hard numbers. And this clown making the number this has two freaking accounts, man how can you argue on behalf of a person like this?? nevertheless you have to take out the Covid years and and the probation years. Really you’ve gotta start 91-92 if you honestly want to take account of the modern era. You guys don’t like the outcome of that because it doesn’t fit your narrative to defend Mark Pope at all costs. Even at the cost of destroying our program.. even from 91 until now taking out the Covid season. Billy Clyde Gillespie. Two years of an awful hire unacceptable hire with a quick fire right away. He wasn’t much worse than pope to this point.. he brought in better talent than mark. And if not, here you weren’t getting in with 13, losses, 14 losses, much more difficult to make the tournament because of the weakness of the SEC. Now, the SEC strong, so you could get in with 14 losses which let’s discuss that. Winning percentage. 75%. The average popes a like at 65%. Like I said, this guy cherry picked numbers. And anyone with multiple accounts posting simultaneously there is something wrong with that person. Sociopath /borderline. It’s abnormal and makes me wonder whether you in a Kentucky fan. Stick with him and his cherry picked numbers. I remember when there was a movement to get rid of Tubby 10 loss Tubby what they called him. Big blue nation there were a lot of people that wanted Tubby out and they’re justification was 10 loss Tubby.. will we call pope now? 13 loss pope? That’s our standard give me a break man this guy averages 13 losses per season. He has like the 75th best rec recruiting class coming in. 45th best transfer ranking. And we just had a Mass Exodus of guys who couldn’t get out of Lexington fast enough.
No way am I reading all that but that’s an impressive amount of research brother. Jesus. Even busted out some graphs. Impressed.
I feel this work shows the often inflated expectations of our fanbase. I agree with the number that shows pope’s first year was above average. And that team was the most pleasing to watch in years. I’ve said it before that NIL will not be our friend so don’t know where are headed. I was disappointed in our most recent season but all coaches have head scratchers. For those as old as myself Rupp’s 66-67 team was a head scratcher when it went to the title game the previous year and returned Dampier and Riley and went 13-13. The players just didn’t fit or just missing that one piece? This study encompasses the most recent 40 years and I feel represents reality. Thanks for the work you did. I am concerned with our recruiting and portal problems currently.
Does he have multiple accounts? Or did he change the name on the account? When I first read the OP it was posted by Blacksheep. Now it shows Village Idiot. Can you edit that after posting? Or did it change when he changed his name?
Other than that, you accuse him of cherry picking, then describe how it should have cherry picked.
1985 wasn't random. He explained it.
I agree. His taking the time to do the research, compile his results and share them here is GREATLY APPRECIATED !! I'm not sure what conclusions I have reached yet, but I do want to say that I think the SEC has become deeper and far more competitive, just as college basketball has overall. There is more talent spread across a wider spectrum of teams now, I think.
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Or was the second season the outlier? We won't know until after the 3rd
Appreciate the analysis. Very informative and I agree with its findings.
In the modern era, Kentucky basketball is consistently above average (Sweet 16, 3 seed average), occasionally elite (3 titles) and occasionally terrible (3 missed tournaments) and misbehaved once (ineligible for 3 years).
Historically, whole body of work considered, we are the best program of all time. But as the Rupp era becomes ancient history with each passing year, we have some work to do in this era.
In the modern era, Kentucky basketball is consistently above average (Sweet 16, 3 seed average), occasionally elite (3 titles) and occasionally terrible (3 missed tournaments) and misbehaved once (ineligible for 3 years).
Historically, whole body of work considered, we are the best program of all time. But as the Rupp era becomes ancient history with each passing year, we have some work to do in this era.
It changed when my name change went through. Was requested four days ago. I told everyone exactly what I was going to try to do:
Delete “I’m The Village Idiot” because I couldn’t upgrade to KSR+ and I got tired of switching between accounts since I mostly post on phone.
So I decided to only use “Black Sheep ITVI”, my KSR+ account going forward but would try to request “I’m The Village Idiot” back after the termination went through for my RR account. They emailed me back that I can’t have the apostrophe, so they changed it to “Im The Village Idiot” instead.
Shouldn’t need to be explained lol
You dont like 85? Go back to 79 then, the year after we won it i. 78. Thats 3 Championships in 47 years my guy. Now you can spin it and outlier it all you want to, but those are the numbers fella.
Now, the fair side of the argument AGAINST Pope....regular season losses, for sure.
Rupp 4.5 losses per season(hard to include as it was a different game)
Hall 5.7
Sutton 5.5
Pitino 6.3
Smith 7.3
Gillespie 13.5
Cal 8.2
Pope 13
Now, do you factor in no roster starting year one and three significant injuries last year? I think thats fair, but its still a bottom line business
Rupp 4.5 losses per season(hard to include as it was a different game)
Hall 5.7
Sutton 5.5
Pitino 6.3
Smith 7.3
Gillespie 13.5
Cal 8.2
Pope 13
Now, do you factor in no roster starting year one and three significant injuries last year? I think thats fair, but its still a bottom line business
It isn’t if you read the whole post. I qualify that statement pretty specifically.
The Rupp era is completely different than today. During his time most SEC basketball teams weren’t even trying to compete. During Rupp’s 42 years , FL,AUB, GA and Ole Miss each Averaged 1 win a decade against UK. Plus integration has added so many more players to the game. I feel it is impossible to compare today’s game to the Rupp era.
It doesn't matter how many hundreds of words you attempt to qualify it. It's ridiculous premise on it's face and isn't justifiable.
I’m not a fan of comparing wins/losses without context.
28-6
35-4
27-9
32-2
Rank those teams.
Comparing the pre NIL Hall - Tubby - Pitino era to today’s College Free Agency 19 yr old $millionaire era is ridiculous. DJ Waggner was driving a ROLLS & many Ky players bought houses . The Duke Contract with Amazon & the tougher schedules including the SEC with Texas & Oklahoma make winning 25 games much harder.Throw in injuries & 5th year seniors make a 25 win season the equivalent of a 30 win season just a decade ago.
Not defending anyone but IT IS WHAT IT IS.
Pope will be our coach for at least 2 more years.
Not defending anyone but IT IS WHAT IT IS.
Pope will be our coach for at least 2 more years.
Sounds like you’re just using a different definition of “standard”. No big deal. I have multiple definitions as well and I think most fans do.
We usually mean something different when we say “the standard” versus saying something is “not up to Kentucky standards.” I’m more dealing with the second definition here.
Either way, thanks for reading and agreeing to disagree is fine by me.
I don’t agree with all of that but thanks for reading. Also, Rupp specifically paid players. I think it’s fair to consider that when we think about the past as well
When Pope was hired and we the fans celebrated at Rupp, the administration rattled off a bunch of statistics that shows why we have such high expectations… The national media knows it also which is why they are attacking Pope…. He said he knows the assignment for a reason
Win/Losses its 32-2, 35-4, 28-6, 27-9. I am a bottom line guy, so how far we go in the NCAAT always trumps SEC/SECT, reg season records
Blind records…rank those teams?
It was:
2005 Kentucky, 2 Seed, E8 (28-6)
1998 Kentucky, 2 Seed, NC (35-4)
2016 Kentucky, 4 Seed, R32 (27-9)
2026 Miami OH, 11 Seed, R64 (32-2)
Record is important but without context, it’s just numbers. That’s why you don’t see me put much stock in raw W/L, it’s more about full body of work.
I knew who the teams were lol, but if you are going to pull that card then you have to do it for the entire original post you made.
Additionally, IF you add perspective, then last season for Pope, losing two starters and facing the toughest schedule in school history can't possibly be viewed as a failure. You can't have it both ways
My post had nothing to do with pure W/L records, Cowboy. That’s the point. I’m explaining why that WAS NOT part of the methodology. Two teams’ records mean nothing if you aren’t comparing who they played, who they beat, etc. My original post used seed line because that metric compares full body of work in a quantifiable way.
Sure, you can absolutely have both. I 100% account for injuries. I do not know one way or the other how the year would have turned out had we been healthy. I’ll even go as far as to remind that we were not healthy for even one game last year. That’s a reason I’m still thinking Pope will prove his detractors wrong.
That said, we can’t call last year anything but a failure. Calling it anything else is IMO problematic. It was below UK standards. He will have this year to prove, as I hope he will, that last year was mostly because of injuries. Many people dispute that notion btw, Cowboy. Many do not think injuries were the reason. Pope has year three to tell the story.
If he succeeds, people will look back at year two and say it probably was due to injuries.
If he fails, people will look back at year two and say it was due to roster construction and management. And he will be fired.
I would love to know how many schools lost point guards to dislocated shoulders eventually requiring surgery. It’s freakish but I view it as a sign that the game has been allowed to become too physical.
You’re one of the most honest on the board. Except when you said Paul Calhoun was one of the best at debating. That guy was a complete jerk to people over Stoops and he’s starting to get as bad for Pope.
I haven’t seen anything like that from him. I also didn’t frequent football board much. Don’t think my kind was very welcome there. Thanks for the compliment though
I mean, thats fine. But Rick went 14-14 year one before 22-6 year two. If that team lost Sean Woods and Jamal Mashburn for the season and Jeff Brassow for half the season, what is our record that season? 18-10? 17-11? So are you firing Rick after year two?
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