Case Study: Defining the Kentucky Standard: What the Data Actually Shows Since 1985

[Im The Village Idiot]

Kentucky’s historical “standard” since 1985 is not championships—it is roughly a top-4 seed and a Sweet 16 program, with frequent Elite Eight appearances.

We often use the phrase “Kentucky standard” when referring to expectations for the men’s basketball program, both in the regular season and postseason. This study asks whether that standard can be defined objectively.

To do so, we evaluate Kentucky’s historical performance using three statistical measures: the average (mean), the median (most representative outcome), and the mode (most common outcome).

For the regular season, NCAA tournament seed serves as a single-number summary of performance. For the postseason, tournament advancement is used. Each is converted into a point system to allow for consistent comparison across seasons.

Analysis begins in 1985, since that is the year the NCAA tournament expanded to 64 teams.

This study examines whether the ‘Kentucky standard’ can be defined objectively based on sustained historical performance rather than peak achievements or fan expectations.

*DISCLAIMER*
Conditions from one season to the next are not always perfectly comparable, and seeds and tournament results are inherently volatile.


REGULAR SEASON

0 points = Missed Tournament
1 pt = 12 seed
2 pts = 11 seed
3 pts = 10 seed
4 pts = 9 seed
5 pts = 8 seed
6 pts = 7 seed
7 pts = 6 seed
8 pts = 5 seed
9 pts = 4 seed
10 pts = 3 seed
11 pts = 2 seed
12 pts = 1 seed


POSTSEASON

0 pts = Missed Tournament
1 pt = Lost in Round of 64
2 pts = Lost in Round of 32
3 pts = Lost in Sweet 16
4 pts = Lost in Elite Eight
5 pts = Lost in Final Four
6 pts = National Runner-Up
7 pts = National Champions


2026

Regular Season = 7 seed (6 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2025

Regular Season = 3 Seed (10 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



2024

Regular Season = 3 Seed (10 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 64 (1pt)



2023

Regular Season = 6 Seed (7 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2022

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 64 (1pt)



2021

Regular Season = Missed Tournament (0 points)
Postseason = Missed Tournament (0 points)



2020

Regular Season = 4 Seed* (Bracket Matrix) (9 pts)
Postseason = Cancelled



2019

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2018

Regular Season = 5 Seed (8 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



2017

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2016

Regular Season = 4 Seed (9 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2015

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Final Four (5 pts)



2014

Regular Season = 8 Seed (5 pts)
Postseason = National Runner-up (6 pts)



2013

Regular Season = Missed Tournament (0 points)
Postseason = Missed Tournament (0 points)



2012

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = National Champions (7 pts)



2011

Regular Season = 4 Seed (9 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Final Four (5 pts)



2010

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2009

Regular Season = Missed Tournament (0 points)
Postseason = Missed Tournament (0 points)



2008

Regular Season = 11 Seed (2 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 64 (1pt)



2007

Regular Season = 8 Seed (5 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2006

Regular Season = 8 Seed (5 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2005

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2004

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2003

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2002

Regular Season = 4 Seed (9 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



2001

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



2000

Regular Season = 5 Seed (8 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



1999

Regular Season = 3 Seed (10 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



1998

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = National Champions (7 pts)



1997

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = National Runner-up (6 pts)



1996

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = National Champions (7 pts)



1995

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



1994

Regular Season = 3 Seed (10 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



1993

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Final Four (5 pts)



1992

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



1991

Regular Season = Ineligible
Postseason = Ineligible



1990

Regular Season = Ineligible
Postseason = Ineligible



1989

Regular Season = Ineligible
Postseason = Ineligible



1988

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16* (Voided by NCAA)



1987

Regular Season = 8 Seed (5 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 64 (1pt)



1986

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



1985

Regular Season = 12 Seed (1 pt)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



*DISCLAIMER*
To maintain consistency, the primary dataset excludes:

• Pre-1985 seasons (pre-64-team tournament)
• Vacated seasons (e.g., 1988)
• Probation/ineligible seasons (1989–1991)
• 2020 postseason (cancelled)

The 2021 season is included as a full NCAA season under uniform conditions.





PRIMARY DATASET (by points)

Regular Season: (0, 0, 0, 1, 2, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12)

Postseason: (0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7)


MEAN/AVERAGE REGULAR SEASON: Between a 4 and 5 seed (8.48 points, slightly closer to a 5 seed)

MEDIAN REGULAR SEASON: 3 Seed (10 pts)

MODE REGULAR SEASON: 1 Seed (12 pts)



MEAN/AVERAGE POSTSEASON: Sweet 16 (3.22 pts)

MEDIAN POSTSEASON: Sweet 16 (3 pts)

MODE POSTSEASON: Elite Eight (4 pts)




*Please note that only one season of the Hall era occurred during the 64-team era, so this data should not be interpreted to represent his body of work as a coach.



PRIMARY DATASET CONCLUSION

Since tournament expansion in 1985, the average season for Kentucky basketball, excluding the 2020 season and probation/vacated years, is between a 4 and 5 seed (slightly closer to a 5 seed) with a Sweet 16 finish.

Since tournament expansion in 1985, the typical Kentucky season can be defined in three layers:

• Average (Mean Outcome):
  ~4–5 seed and a Sweet 16 finish
• Most Representative (Median Outcome):
  3 seed and a Sweet 16 finish
• Most Common Peak (Mode Outcome):
  1 seed and an Elite Eight finish

Taken together, these results demonstrate that the Kentucky standard is not defined by championships or Final Fours, but by consistent top-tier seeding and regular advancement to the second weekend.

Kentucky consistently performs at a national title–contender level entering the tournament (as reflected by its 1-seed mode), but most often finishes at the Sweet 16 or Elite Eight level rather than the Final Four.

The gap between a 1-seed mode and an Elite Eight mode suggests that while Kentucky frequently performs at an elite level in the regular season, its postseason results are more variable and less dominant than its seeding would predict.

The following clarification helps contextualize these findings within the broader discussion of expectations.

Defining the Kentucky Standard (Clarification)

When discussing the “Kentucky standard,” it is important to distinguish between ceiling and standard.

Championships and Final Fours represent the ceiling of a program—its best possible outcomes—not its typical level of performance.

A program’s standard should be defined as its most representative level of sustained performance, best captured by its median and average outcomes.

The data since 1985 shows:

• Median season: 3 seed, Sweet 16

• Average season: ~5 seed (between a 4 and 5 seed, slightly closer to a 5), Sweet 16

• Most common peak: 1 seed, Elite Eight


















If Final Fours or championships were truly the standard, they would appear as the median or most frequent outcome. They do not.

Therefore, the Kentucky standard is best defined as:

Consistent top-tier seeding and regular advancement to the second weekend, with periodic deep runs beyond that point.

Seasons should only be considered below standard when they fall meaningfully short of this baseline—not simply because they do not reach the program’s ceiling.

Expecting championships every year reflects Kentucky’s ambition—but not its historical reality.

 

[GACatsFan7]

I'd be curious how this compares to other schools in the top-tier category.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

I'd be curious how this compares to other schools in the top-tier category.

Haven’t completed the tournament finish survey but here’s the seeding one:

https://www.on3.com/boards/threads/case-study-reaching-the-top-vs-living-there-a-data-study-of-college-basketball’s-elite-programs.8757496/

 

[OldDocCat]

Well done Black Sheep!

 

[Anon200440]

Standard = Expectations based off past results, usually not bound to one season

Ceiling - Bound to one season based on roster, fit, talent, and other variables

 

[MdWIldcat55]

This gave me PTSD. It looks like the instructions for the Deluxe Barbie Dream House I had to put together for my daughter at 5 am on Christmas morning one year after staying out all night drinking bourbon with buddies.

But I appreciate the effort. If it says, boiled down, "We've all been very lucky to have Kentucky basketball in our lives over the years and however grim the times seem now, the Cats will inevitably rise again," then I agree with that completely.

 

[RedwoodHigh]

Cal average was 11.4 - skewed by super teams & no NIL & restrictions on transfers
Pope a average is 10.5 - skewed by NIL & free agents

 

[Snarks]

I don’t think anyone expects a final 4 every year. The NCAA tournament has too much randomness. I think UK fans expect to be in the conversation and at least have a chance at a FF. Problem is Pope has never had a roster that could truly contend.

 

[Anon200440]

Cal average was 11.4 - skewed by super teams & no NIL & restrictions on transfers
Pope a average is 10.5 - skewed by NIL & free agents

what are those numbers

 

[UKCowboys]

So Pope's 1st season was Kentucky Standards after all...

 

[Skyguyb27]

Nice work however when people refer to Kentucky standard they are often referring to the best school, IE most wins ever and 8 championships total which no other school besides UCLA can claim. Love the data but you have discounted our heritage to minimize what should be the standard today.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

So Pope's 1st season was Kentucky Standards after all...

Depends on your definition. I’d absolutely say yes. It’s at minimum average by Kentucky standards, but people have different definitions. That’s why I gave my definition and my framework in the study. In no way should my view on the matter be used to say someone else, using a different definition is wrong.

Anyone using my methodology and definitions though would come to the conclusion that, yes, Pope’s first year was better than average.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

Nice work however when people refer to Kentucky standard they are often referring to the best school, IE most wins ever and 8 championships total which no other school besides UCLA can claim. Love the data but you have discounted our heritage to minimize what should be the standard today.

I disagree that I’ve done that. I am recognizing a specific type of “standard”. I recognize there are multiple definitions and laid out very clearly what I mean in the original post.

 

[20MRoster]

I learned that you use matplotlib, or maybe outright MATLAB.

The seed performance is dipping from the 90s-00s -- can see it clearly if you a sliding window filter. Another symptom pointing to program regression.

 

[Titpwhahi2014]

So Pope's 1st season was Kentucky Standards after all...

It was but looking more and more like the outlier.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

Kentucky’s historical “standard” since 1985 is not championships—it is roughly a top-4 seed and a Sweet 16 program, with frequent Elite Eight appearances.

We often use the phrase “Kentucky standard” when referring to expectations for the men’s basketball program, both in the regular season and postseason. This study asks whether that standard can be defined objectively.

To do so, we evaluate Kentucky’s historical performance using three statistical measures: the average (mean), the median (most representative outcome), and the mode (most common outcome).

For the regular season, NCAA tournament seed serves as a single-number summary of performance. For the postseason, tournament advancement is used. Each is converted into a point system to allow for consistent comparison across seasons.

Analysis begins in 1985, since that is the year the NCAA tournament expanded to 64 teams.

This study examines whether the ‘Kentucky standard’ can be defined objectively based on sustained historical performance rather than peak achievements or fan expectations.

*DISCLAIMER*
Conditions from one season to the next are not always perfectly comparable, and seeds and tournament results are inherently volatile.


REGULAR SEASON

0 points = Missed Tournament
1 pt = 12 seed
2 pts = 11 seed
3 pts = 10 seed
4 pts = 9 seed
5 pts = 8 seed
6 pts = 7 seed
7 pts = 6 seed
8 pts = 5 seed
9 pts = 4 seed
10 pts = 3 seed
11 pts = 2 seed
12 pts = 1 seed


POSTSEASON

0 pts = Missed Tournament
1 pt = Lost in Round of 64
2 pts = Lost in Round of 32
3 pts = Lost in Sweet 16
4 pts = Lost in Elite Eight
5 pts = Lost in Final Four
6 pts = National Runner-Up
7 pts = National Champions


2026

Regular Season = 7 seed (6 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2025

Regular Season = 3 Seed (10 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



2024

Regular Season = 3 Seed (10 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 64 (1pt)



2023

Regular Season = 6 Seed (7 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2022

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 64 (1pt)



2021

Regular Season = Missed Tournament (0 points)
Postseason = Missed Tournament (0 points)



2020

Regular Season = 4 Seed* (Bracket Matrix) (9 pts)
Postseason = Cancelled



2019

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2018

Regular Season = 5 Seed (8 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



2017

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2016

Regular Season = 4 Seed (9 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2015

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Final Four (5 pts)



2014

Regular Season = 8 Seed (5 pts)
Postseason = National Runner-up (6 pts)



2013

Regular Season = Missed Tournament (0 points)
Postseason = Missed Tournament (0 points)



2012

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = National Champions (7 pts)



2011

Regular Season = 4 Seed (9 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Final Four (5 pts)



2010

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2009

Regular Season = Missed Tournament (0 points)
Postseason = Missed Tournament (0 points)



2008

Regular Season = 11 Seed (2 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 64 (1pt)



2007

Regular Season = 8 Seed (5 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2006

Regular Season = 8 Seed (5 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2005

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2004

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2003

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2002

Regular Season = 4 Seed (9 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



2001

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



2000

Regular Season = 5 Seed (8 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



1999

Regular Season = 3 Seed (10 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



1998

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = National Champions (7 pts)



1997

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = National Runner-up (6 pts)



1996

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = National Champions (7 pts)



1995

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



1994

Regular Season = 3 Seed (10 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



1993

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Final Four (5 pts)



1992

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



1991

Regular Season = Ineligible
Postseason = Ineligible



1990

Regular Season = Ineligible
Postseason = Ineligible



1989

Regular Season = Ineligible
Postseason = Ineligible



1988

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16* (Voided by NCAA)



1987

Regular Season = 8 Seed (5 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 64 (1pt)



1986

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



1985

Regular Season = 12 Seed (1 pt)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



*DISCLAIMER*
To maintain consistency, the primary dataset excludes:

• Pre-1985 seasons (pre-64-team tournament)
• Vacated seasons (e.g., 1988)
• Probation/ineligible seasons (1989–1991)
• 2020 postseason (cancelled)

The 2021 season is included as a full NCAA season under uniform conditions.





PRIMARY DATASET (by points)

Regular Season: (0, 0, 0, 1, 2, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12)

Postseason: (0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7)


MEAN/AVERAGE REGULAR SEASON: Between a 4 and 5 seed (8.48 points, slightly closer to a 5 seed)

MEDIAN REGULAR SEASON: 3 Seed (10 pts)

MODE REGULAR SEASON: 1 Seed (12 pts)



MEAN/AVERAGE POSTSEASON: Sweet 16 (3.22 pts)

MEDIAN POSTSEASON: Sweet 16 (3 pts)

MODE POSTSEASON: Elite Eight (4 pts)



View attachment 1236660
*Please note that only one season of the Hall era occurred during the 64-team era, so this data should not be interpreted to represent his body of work as a coach.



PRIMARY DATASET CONCLUSION

Since tournament expansion in 1985, the average season for Kentucky basketball, excluding the 2020 season and probation/vacated years, is between a 4 and 5 seed (slightly closer to a 5 seed) with a Sweet 16 finish.

Since tournament expansion in 1985, the typical Kentucky season can be defined in three layers:

• Average (Mean Outcome):
  ~4–5 seed and a Sweet 16 finish
• Most Representative (Median Outcome):
  3 seed and a Sweet 16 finish
• Most Common Peak (Mode Outcome):
  1 seed and an Elite Eight finish

Taken together, these results demonstrate that the Kentucky standard is not defined by championships or Final Fours, but by consistent top-tier seeding and regular advancement to the second weekend.

Kentucky consistently performs at a national title–contender level entering the tournament (as reflected by its 1-seed mode), but most often finishes at the Sweet 16 or Elite Eight level rather than the Final Four.

The gap between a 1-seed mode and an Elite Eight mode suggests that while Kentucky frequently performs at an elite level in the regular season, its postseason results are more variable and less dominant than its seeding would predict.

The following clarification helps contextualize these findings within the broader discussion of expectations.

Defining the Kentucky Standard (Clarification)

When discussing the “Kentucky standard,” it is important to distinguish between ceiling and standard.

Championships and Final Fours represent the ceiling of a program—its best possible outcomes—not its typical level of performance.

A program’s standard should be defined as its most representative level of sustained performance, best captured by its median and average outcomes.

The data since 1985 shows:

• Median season: 3 seed, Sweet 16

• Average season: ~5 seed (between a 4 and 5 seed, slightly closer to a 5), Sweet 16

• Most common peak: 1 seed, Elite Eight


View attachment 1236659



View attachment 1236658



View attachment 1236662



View attachment 1236661



If Final Fours or championships were truly the standard, they would appear as the median or most frequent outcome. They do not.

Therefore, the Kentucky standard is best defined as:

Consistent top-tier seeding and regular advancement to the second weekend, with periodic deep runs beyond that point.

Seasons should only be considered below standard when they fall meaningfully short of this baseline—not simply because they do not reach the program’s ceiling.

Expecting championships every year reflects Kentucky’s ambition—but not its historical reality.

I don’t know of any realistic UK that expects a title every year or even the FF every year.

I think most do expect to contend every year and it appears we have if the average is a sweet sixteen over 40 years.

Getting to the sweet sixteen is contending.

Sweet sixteens are not all the same. Sometimes you get a break and get there by luck. Those are aberrations.

You don’t average it over 40 years by luck.

I’m a little surprised at the seeding average. But it is what it is.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

I learned that you use matplotlib, or maybe outright MATLAB.

The seed performance is dipping from the 90s-00s -- can see it clearly if you a sliding window filter. Another symptom pointing to program regression.

Nope I used ChatGPT for the graphs. I use excel but getting the excel data into a RR post is a pain, as you can see with some of my posted Excel graphs on here that I had to use a snipping tool and paste as a photo. Then it messes with the format and all that. If you just add the table value from spreadsheet, it counts each value toward the character limit and becomes a mess. In case anyone wants to know.

Also, yes, I am of the mind that the program has slightly declined as CBB parity increased. I actually addressed that in another case study before.

 

[Goingfor9]

Data and overanalyzers. Please stop. We’ve seen and heard this over and over. You have to exclude seasons we severely failed. That’s not a standard. That’s an average. Standard is the compilation of the average + fan expectation, expectations built by coaches. That is a standard. You’re giving us an average that will include bad hires like Bcg, and pope. It includes a bad contract that caused cal to perform below standard second half of his tenure.

I mean, when a post like this comes, I start thinking this is put out by Pope’s new Number’s guy. And I’ll said and make it clear. The average is not the standard standard is expectations that are based upon our averages. Standard is based upon dropping those terrible years. It’s like 2013 was on the heels of a title season and there wasn’t any pressure on Cal fans were happy we won the title in 2012 first time in 14 years. So 2013 we were willing to accept a hiccup, but if there had been no title of the year before, we wouldn’t have accepted it.. you know a real person can look at things take all of the data. At least I can take all of the data you’re talking about. I can formulate my mind and then I can formulate every season and what was expected going in where did our team finish in the end? But no standard and average are completely different.

Something else you don’t consider is trajectory. I mean, you can quantify trajectory. And when a coach isn’t on the trajectory of final fours or being in the thick of it every year. Then it’s time for that guy to go and for Pope. It happened early for cal it happened after he got that crazy contract. I mean all of those years that you’re considering what we did and tournament or our seed you’re talking about that our standard how about all the SEC tournaments all the SEC regular season titles? The dominance we’ve shown in that conference until recently..


There’s so much missing it seems like Keegan Brown post or he’s trying to convince Big blue nation with a bunch of stats. Well, as bad coaches for bad coaches point to stats all the time stats stats stats.. they chase numbers. Instead of performance, I mean is good every once in a while to consult someone on stats if they know that you’re not getting deflection so you’re not scoring on enough possessions. Those stats help at the end of the day everything is based on logic and common sense when it comes to coaching. It’s the same as a fan stats have been skewed this last quarter century because we’ve had an idiot a guy who was hired that wasn’t vetted to find out whether he would take care of our basketball program.. so to like a millennial a young millennial or GenZ you know this pope garbage is acceptable. Anyone that can remember back to 1978 knows that it’s not.. your stats would’ve looked a lot different in 2015. No our standard is hanging a banner regularly whether it’s for SEC title or SEC championship a tournament.. or Whether is a final four, which is the one that counts the most the one we’re on a massive drought. Anybody wants to take a look at stats right now forcing the worst stretch in 100 years to be part of their averages.

This is why Kentucky basketball is dying. Because the people who have experienced the success, extreme success who have upheld the standard.. a lot of of them are gone. They’ve left this earth and more and more leaving this earth every week people who know people who help set the standard. Young millennial or Gen Z, who haven’t experienced sustained winning. I mean, my 22-year-old son. He remembers the 2012 championship, but he remembers real well everything that’s happened since 2015 on. So anyone in that boat I would say anyone that’s grown-up during the Barney tenure their view UK basketball is completely skewed and now they think sweet 16s are good seasons. Like you’ve determined sweet 16s are average..

the reason they average whereas you tell me which program has the average of sweet 16 annually? Well those sweet 16s are because we fell short those seasons of our standard.. no coach, no assistant with a computer and some stats, no fan, none of these people can change the standard. Thats where Big Blue nation steps up to maintain the expectations. Expectations are through the floor now.. you talk about a ceiling, but no floor. Our program has fallen through the floor. We have a roster worse that is worse than a Tubby roster. Before Barney the standard was upheld the majority of the time. Look at the rafters at Rupp. Pre-Barney we were probably hanging banner almost every year whether there be a SEC title or SEC tournament championship or final four.. Barney destroyed our program and it’s evident this post because these young millennial and GenZ they’re confused of what the standard is they’re not gonna uphold it. So every year that goes by that we have a crappy coach that doesn’t understand what takes to win at Kentucky. Like Rex Chapman said to Eddie Sutton when he showed off his conference championship rings. Chapman said we’re about final fours here.. where in the hell did that mentality go? Now it’s let me pull up a computer and show you why the “Kentucky standard is wrong and you guys need to change your expectations based off of it.” in the meantime, Duke’s gonna eat our lunch and UConn gonna pass UCLA. Florida is gonna dominate the SEC and we’re gonna be a midline SEC program. When the next generation starts looking at our averages, they’re gonna say “ oh what are you complaining about? We have a tournament appearance every other year. You guys have been looking at this all wrong.”

 

[Anon1774274437]

Kentucky’s historical “standard” since 1985 is not championships—it is roughly a top-4 seed and a Sweet 16 program, with frequent Elite Eight appearances.

We often use the phrase “Kentucky standard” when referring to expectations for the men’s basketball program, both in the regular season and postseason. This study asks whether that standard can be defined objectively.

To do so, we evaluate Kentucky’s historical performance using three statistical measures: the average (mean), the median (most representative outcome), and the mode (most common outcome).

For the regular season, NCAA tournament seed serves as a single-number summary of performance. For the postseason, tournament advancement is used. Each is converted into a point system to allow for consistent comparison across seasons.

Analysis begins in 1985, since that is the year the NCAA tournament expanded to 64 teams.

This study examines whether the ‘Kentucky standard’ can be defined objectively based on sustained historical performance rather than peak achievements or fan expectations.

*DISCLAIMER*
Conditions from one season to the next are not always perfectly comparable, and seeds and tournament results are inherently volatile.


REGULAR SEASON

0 points = Missed Tournament
1 pt = 12 seed
2 pts = 11 seed
3 pts = 10 seed
4 pts = 9 seed
5 pts = 8 seed
6 pts = 7 seed
7 pts = 6 seed
8 pts = 5 seed
9 pts = 4 seed
10 pts = 3 seed
11 pts = 2 seed
12 pts = 1 seed


POSTSEASON

0 pts = Missed Tournament
1 pt = Lost in Round of 64
2 pts = Lost in Round of 32
3 pts = Lost in Sweet 16
4 pts = Lost in Elite Eight
5 pts = Lost in Final Four
6 pts = National Runner-Up
7 pts = National Champions


2026

Regular Season = 7 seed (6 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2025

Regular Season = 3 Seed (10 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



2024

Regular Season = 3 Seed (10 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 64 (1pt)



2023

Regular Season = 6 Seed (7 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2022

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 64 (1pt)



2021

Regular Season = Missed Tournament (0 points)
Postseason = Missed Tournament (0 points)



2020

Regular Season = 4 Seed* (Bracket Matrix) (9 pts)
Postseason = Cancelled



2019

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2018

Regular Season = 5 Seed (8 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



2017

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2016

Regular Season = 4 Seed (9 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2015

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Final Four (5 pts)



2014

Regular Season = 8 Seed (5 pts)
Postseason = National Runner-up (6 pts)



2013

Regular Season = Missed Tournament (0 points)
Postseason = Missed Tournament (0 points)



2012

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = National Champions (7 pts)



2011

Regular Season = 4 Seed (9 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Final Four (5 pts)



2010

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2009

Regular Season = Missed Tournament (0 points)
Postseason = Missed Tournament (0 points)



2008

Regular Season = 11 Seed (2 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 64 (1pt)



2007

Regular Season = 8 Seed (5 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2006

Regular Season = 8 Seed (5 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2005

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2004

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



2003

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



2002

Regular Season = 4 Seed (9 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



2001

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



2000

Regular Season = 5 Seed (8 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



1999

Regular Season = 3 Seed (10 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



1998

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = National Champions (7 pts)



1997

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = National Runner-up (6 pts)



1996

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = National Champions (7 pts)



1995

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



1994

Regular Season = 3 Seed (10 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 32 (2 pts)



1993

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Final Four (5 pts)



1992

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



1991

Regular Season = Ineligible
Postseason = Ineligible



1990

Regular Season = Ineligible
Postseason = Ineligible



1989

Regular Season = Ineligible
Postseason = Ineligible



1988

Regular Season = 2 Seed (11 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16* (Voided by NCAA)



1987

Regular Season = 8 Seed (5 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Round of 64 (1pt)



1986

Regular Season = 1 Seed (12 pts)
Postseason = Lost in Elite Eight (4 pts)



1985

Regular Season = 12 Seed (1 pt)
Postseason = Lost in Sweet 16 (3 pts)



*DISCLAIMER*
To maintain consistency, the primary dataset excludes:

• Pre-1985 seasons (pre-64-team tournament)
• Vacated seasons (e.g., 1988)
• Probation/ineligible seasons (1989–1991)
• 2020 postseason (cancelled)

The 2021 season is included as a full NCAA season under uniform conditions.





PRIMARY DATASET (by points)

Regular Season: (0, 0, 0, 1, 2, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12)

Postseason: (0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7)


MEAN/AVERAGE REGULAR SEASON: Between a 4 and 5 seed (8.48 points, slightly closer to a 5 seed)

MEDIAN REGULAR SEASON: 3 Seed (10 pts)

MODE REGULAR SEASON: 1 Seed (12 pts)



MEAN/AVERAGE POSTSEASON: Sweet 16 (3.22 pts)

MEDIAN POSTSEASON: Sweet 16 (3 pts)

MODE POSTSEASON: Elite Eight (4 pts)



View attachment 1236660
*Please note that only one season of the Hall era occurred during the 64-team era, so this data should not be interpreted to represent his body of work as a coach.



PRIMARY DATASET CONCLUSION

Since tournament expansion in 1985, the average season for Kentucky basketball, excluding the 2020 season and probation/vacated years, is between a 4 and 5 seed (slightly closer to a 5 seed) with a Sweet 16 finish.

Since tournament expansion in 1985, the typical Kentucky season can be defined in three layers:

• Average (Mean Outcome):
  ~4–5 seed and a Sweet 16 finish
• Most Representative (Median Outcome):
  3 seed and a Sweet 16 finish
• Most Common Peak (Mode Outcome):
  1 seed and an Elite Eight finish

Taken together, these results demonstrate that the Kentucky standard is not defined by championships or Final Fours, but by consistent top-tier seeding and regular advancement to the second weekend.

Kentucky consistently performs at a national title–contender level entering the tournament (as reflected by its 1-seed mode), but most often finishes at the Sweet 16 or Elite Eight level rather than the Final Four.

The gap between a 1-seed mode and an Elite Eight mode suggests that while Kentucky frequently performs at an elite level in the regular season, its postseason results are more variable and less dominant than its seeding would predict.

The following clarification helps contextualize these findings within the broader discussion of expectations.

Defining the Kentucky Standard (Clarification)

When discussing the “Kentucky standard,” it is important to distinguish between ceiling and standard.

Championships and Final Fours represent the ceiling of a program—its best possible outcomes—not its typical level of performance.

A program’s standard should be defined as its most representative level of sustained performance, best captured by its median and average outcomes.

The data since 1985 shows:

• Median season: 3 seed, Sweet 16

• Average season: ~5 seed (between a 4 and 5 seed, slightly closer to a 5), Sweet 16

• Most common peak: 1 seed, Elite Eight


View attachment 1236659



View attachment 1236658



View attachment 1236662



View attachment 1236661



If Final Fours or championships were truly the standard, they would appear as the median or most frequent outcome. They do not.

Therefore, the Kentucky standard is best defined as:

Consistent top-tier seeding and regular advancement to the second weekend, with periodic deep runs beyond that point.

Seasons should only be considered below standard when they fall meaningfully short of this baseline—not simply because they do not reach the program’s ceiling.

Expecting championships every year reflects Kentucky’s ambition—but not its historical reality.

We're a top 2 program of all-time, no matter how you slice it.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

We're a top 2 program of all-time, no matter how you slice it.

I agree. I actually think we are 1st historically, if you consider all factors. None of that is undermined by this study.

 

[UKCowboys]

Nice work however when people refer to Kentucky standard they are often referring to the best school, IE most wins ever and 8 championships total which no other school besides UCLA can claim. Love the data but you have discounted our heritage to minimize what should be the standard today.

I was just arguing MJ vs LeFlop on here and was told that MJ played against Plumbers and Carpenters. I have heard that about Wilt, but never about MJ lol.
So by that token, here are our Championship seasons....48,49,51,58,78.....96, 98, 12. We won 5 by 1978 and......3 in the last 48 years. Three in Forty Eight. And somehow, when a first year coach with literally no players on the roster in mid April makes the Sweet 16 there are clowns on here saying that season is a failure. I have heard this Kentucky Standards crap for the last year and the truth is, since 78 when there probably were a couple of plumbers playing, we are averaging one championship every sixteen years.....and before the 78 Title, it had been TWENTY YEARS. I am proud of the 8 Championships, but let's not pretend that four Championships between 1948 and 1958 should somehow count in the equation of what our standards are today.
We are basically the Dallas Cowboys. 5 Super Bowl wins, but their normal season before 1997 and since 1997 are two different things by a long shot. So do we want to strive for a Championship every year? Hell Yes. But if you want to crucify the coach over the last two seasons, you are venturing away from reality. He has had one bad season....and that season was filled with injuries

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

I was just arguing MJ vs LeFlop on here and was told that MJ played against Plumbers and Carpenters. I have heard that about Wilt, but never about MJ lol.
So by that token, here are our Championship seasons....48,49,51,58,78.....96, 98, 12. We won 5 by 1978 and......3 in the last 48 years. Three in Forty Eight. And somehow, when a first year coach with literally no players on the roster in mid April makes the Sweet 16 there are clowns on here saying that season is a failure. I have heard this Kentucky Standards crap for the last year and the truth is, since 78 when there probably were a couple of plumbers playing, we are averaging one championship every sixteen years.....and before the 78 Title, it had been TWENTY YEARS. I am proud of the 8 Championships, but let's not pretend that four Championships between 1948 and 1958 should somehow count in the equation of what our standards are today.
We are basically the Dallas Cowboys. 5 Super Bowl wins, but their normal season before 1997 and since 1997 are two different things by a long shot. So do we want to strive for a Championship every year? Hell Yes. But if you want to crucify the coach over the last two seasons, you are venturing away from reality. He has had one bad season....and that season was filled with injuries

Counterpoint: Even by modern standards, last season was below them. Pope has to be better or he will be gone.

And, as you know, I’m not an anti-Pope guy. But we can’t pretend last year wasn’t bad. I absolutely think injuries played a massive role but no one will care if year three doesn’t deliver.

 

[20MRoster]

Nope I used ChatGPT for the graphs. I use excel but getting the excel data into a RR post is a pain, as you can see with some of my posted Excel graphs on here that I had to use a snipping tool and paste as a photo. Then it messes with the format and all that. If you just add the table value from spreadsheet, it counts each value toward the character limit and becomes a mess. In case anyone wants to know.

Also, yes, I am of the mind that the program has slightly declined as CBB parity increased. I actually addressed that in another case study before.

Makes sense -- I guarantee ChatGPT uses matplotlib (Python library most popular for visualizing nerd **** ). 99% sure -- only reason I can't be 100% is because I will never use that trash and I will celebrate with glee when OpenAI's business inevitably collapses.

Anyways, good work!

 

[Monday Nitro]

I agree. I actually think we are 1st historically, if you consider all factors. None of that is undermined by this study.

So strange. The Villlage Idiot says he's going to delete his account and use his other one since his Village Idiot account won't transfer over to KSR+. You obviously did that and are now using yoir Black Sheep account, which has been a total Pope-hating account. WTF

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

Makes sense -- I guarantee ChatGPT uses matplotlib (Python library most popular for visualizing nerd **** ). 99% sure -- only reason I can't be 100% is because I will never use that trash and I will celebrate with glee when OpenAI's business inevitably collapses.

Anyways, good work!

Thanks man.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

Lol

 

[Monday Nitro]

I disagree that I’ve hated anything about Pope. What a bizarre comment.

You've said smart allec things to me with this acconnt while "liking" my posts with the other one. What a loser.

 

[xmayor]

Great stuff. I have frequently read "Cal only won one championship" on the one hand, and "judging Pope is unreasonable given long gaps between championship (like 58-78 or 78-96) as if "championship or failure" is the standard. I can't find "failure" in teams like "Rupps Runts" or "Dan Issel senior year" or Rick's pre championship year when uNC beat us in the regional, or '77 (also a uNC regional loss), or the 1975 championship game successes, or the '97 team, or Cal's first team or 2015 team or the Monk team or that covid year team that is now represented by Maxey's big game yesterday, or that year LSU and Blanton beat us in the fourth time we played them. The standard left by these teams IS "SEC champion style success in the regular season and a good shot at going deep in the NCAA tourney".

There is a lot of "two things can be true" that must come from some radio personality, but the ONE thing that is true is what is shown by this thread's author's mathmatical analysis and confirmed to me by my 70 years of being a fan, and that is I expect to win the SEC and go to the second weekend in the NCAA or count the season unsatisfying, and it is the expectation of reaching that standard, if not this year, then there is always next year, against which UK coaches and their teams are judged. If the results of this year, and the expectation of next year, is much lower, then grumbling and questioning is a UK fan's perogative.

 

[20MRoster]

Data and overanalyzers. Please stop. We’ve seen and heard this over and over. You have to exclude seasons we severely failed. That’s not a standard. That’s an average. Standard is the compilation of the average + fan expectation, expectations built by coaches. That is a standard. You’re giving us an average that will include bad hires like Bcg, and pope. It includes a bad contract that caused cal to perform below standard second half of his tenure.

I mean, when a post like this comes, I start thinking this is put out by Pope’s new Number’s guy. And I’ll said and make it clear. The average is not the standard standard is expectations that are based upon our averages. Standard is based upon dropping those terrible years. It’s like 2013 was on the heels of a title season and there wasn’t any pressure on Cal fans were happy we won the title in 2012 first time in 14 years. So 2013 we were willing to accept a hiccup, but if there had been no title of the year before, we wouldn’t have accepted it.. you know a real person can look at things take all of the data. At least I can take all of the data you’re talking about. I can formulate my mind and then I can formulate every season and what was expected going in where did our team finish in the end? But no standard and average are completely different.

Something else you don’t consider is trajectory. I mean, you can quantify trajectory. And when a coach isn’t on the trajectory of final fours or being in the thick of it every year. Then it’s time for that guy to go and for Pope. It happened early for cal it happened after he got that crazy contract. I mean all of those years that you’re considering what we did and tournament or our seed you’re talking about that our standard how about all the SEC tournaments all the SEC regular season titles? The dominance we’ve shown in that conference until recently..


There’s so much missing it seems like Keegan Brown post or he’s trying to convince Big blue nation with a bunch of stats. Well, as bad coaches for bad coaches point to stats all the time stats stats stats.. they chase numbers. Instead of performance, I mean is good every once in a while to consult someone on stats if they know that you’re not getting deflection so you’re not scoring on enough possessions. Those stats help at the end of the day everything is based on logic and common sense when it comes to coaching. It’s the same as a fan stats have been skewed this last quarter century because we’ve had an idiot a guy who was hired that wasn’t vetted to find out whether he would take care of our basketball program.. so to like a millennial a young millennial or GenZ you know this pope garbage is acceptable. Anyone that can remember back to 1978 knows that it’s not.. your stats would’ve looked a lot different in 2015. No our standard is hanging a banner regularly whether it’s for SEC title or SEC championship a tournament.. or Whether is a final four, which is the one that counts the most the one we’re on a massive drought. Anybody wants to take a look at stats right now forcing the worst stretch in 100 years to be part of their averages.

This is why Kentucky basketball is dying. Because the people who have experienced the success, extreme success who have upheld the standard.. a lot of of them are gone. They’ve left this earth and more and more leaving this earth every week people who know people who help set the standard. Young millennial or Gen Z, who haven’t experienced sustained winning. I mean, my 22-year-old son. He remembers the 2012 championship, but he remembers real well everything that’s happened since 2015 on. So anyone in that boat I would say anyone that’s grown-up during the Barney tenure their view UK basketball is completely skewed and now they think sweet 16s are good seasons. Like you’ve determined sweet 16s are average..

the reason they average whereas you tell me which program has the average of sweet 16 annually? Well those sweet 16s are because we fell short those seasons of our standard.. no coach, no assistant with a computer and some stats, no fan, none of these people can change the standard. Thats where Big Blue nation steps up to maintain the expectations. Expectations are through the floor now.. you talk about a ceiling, but no floor. Our program has fallen through the floor. We have a roster worse that is worse than a Tubby roster. Before Barney the standard was upheld the majority of the time. Look at the rafters at Rupp. Pre-Barney we were probably hanging banner almost every year whether there be a SEC title or SEC tournament championship or final four.. Barney destroyed our program and it’s evident this post because these young millennial and GenZ they’re confused of what the standard is they’re not gonna uphold it. So every year that goes by that we have a crappy coach that doesn’t understand what takes to win at Kentucky. Like Rex Chapman said to Eddie Sutton when he showed off his conference championship rings. Chapman said we’re about final fours here.. where in the hell did that mentality go? Now it’s let me pull up a computer and show you why the “Kentucky standard is wrong and you guys need to change your expectations based off of it.” in the meantime, Duke’s gonna eat our lunch and UConn gonna pass UCLA. Florida is gonna dominate the SEC and we’re gonna be a midline SEC program. When the next generation starts looking at our averages, they’re gonna say “ oh what are you complaining about? We have a tournament appearance every other year. You guys have been looking at this all wrong.”

I liked this post because it bashes Keegan Brown. That guy is a clueless hack and will expedite Pope's downfall.

However, data is important. There's tons of data to show UK is regressing, and ITVI said in response to my post that he's mentioned this himself. Can't just ignore data completely.

There's a time and place for "vibes" and "eye test" and a time and place for hard data driven decisions.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

Lol

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

Lol

 

[ftp000]

Data and overanalyzers. Please stop. We’ve seen and heard this over and over. You have to exclude seasons we severely failed. That’s not a standard. That’s an average. Standard is the compilation of the average + fan expectation, expectations built by coaches. That is a standard. You’re giving us an average that will include bad hires like Bcg, and pope. It includes a bad contract that caused cal to perform below standard second half of his tenure.

I mean, when a post like this comes, I start thinking this is put out by Pope’s new Number’s guy. And I’ll said and make it clear. The average is not the standard standard is expectations that are based upon our averages. Standard is based upon dropping those terrible years. It’s like 2013 was on the heels of a title season and there wasn’t any pressure on Cal fans were happy we won the title in 2012 first time in 14 years. So 2013 we were willing to accept a hiccup, but if there had been no title of the year before, we wouldn’t have accepted it.. you know a real person can look at things take all of the data. At least I can take all of the data you’re talking about. I can formulate my mind and then I can formulate every season and what was expected going in where did our team finish in the end? But no standard and average are completely different.

Something else you don’t consider is trajectory. I mean, you can quantify trajectory. And when a coach isn’t on the trajectory of final fours or being in the thick of it every year. Then it’s time for that guy to go and for Pope. It happened early for cal it happened after he got that crazy contract. I mean all of those years that you’re considering what we did and tournament or our seed you’re talking about that our standard how about all the SEC tournaments all the SEC regular season titles? The dominance we’ve shown in that conference until recently..


There’s so much missing it seems like Keegan Brown post or he’s trying to convince Big blue nation with a bunch of stats. Well, as bad coaches for bad coaches point to stats all the time stats stats stats.. they chase numbers. Instead of performance, I mean is good every once in a while to consult someone on stats if they know that you’re not getting deflection so you’re not scoring on enough possessions. Those stats help at the end of the day everything is based on logic and common sense when it comes to coaching. It’s the same as a fan stats have been skewed this last quarter century because we’ve had an idiot a guy who was hired that wasn’t vetted to find out whether he would take care of our basketball program.. so to like a millennial a young millennial or GenZ you know this pope garbage is acceptable. Anyone that can remember back to 1978 knows that it’s not.. your stats would’ve looked a lot different in 2015. No our standard is hanging a banner regularly whether it’s for SEC title or SEC championship a tournament.. or Whether is a final four, which is the one that counts the most the one we’re on a massive drought. Anybody wants to take a look at stats right now forcing the worst stretch in 100 years to be part of their averages.

This is why Kentucky basketball is dying. Because the people who have experienced the success, extreme success who have upheld the standard.. a lot of of them are gone. They’ve left this earth and more and more leaving this earth every week people who know people who help set the standard. Young millennial or Gen Z, who haven’t experienced sustained winning. I mean, my 22-year-old son. He remembers the 2012 championship, but he remembers real well everything that’s happened since 2015 on. So anyone in that boat I would say anyone that’s grown-up during the Barney tenure their view UK basketball is completely skewed and now they think sweet 16s are good seasons. Like you’ve determined sweet 16s are average..

the reason they average whereas you tell me which program has the average of sweet 16 annually? Well those sweet 16s are because we fell short those seasons of our standard.. no coach, no assistant with a computer and some stats, no fan, none of these people can change the standard. Thats where Big Blue nation steps up to maintain the expectations. Expectations are through the floor now.. you talk about a ceiling, but no floor. Our program has fallen through the floor. We have a roster worse that is worse than a Tubby roster. Before Barney the standard was upheld the majority of the time. Look at the rafters at Rupp. Pre-Barney we were probably hanging banner almost every year whether there be a SEC title or SEC tournament championship or final four.. Barney destroyed our program and it’s evident this post because these young millennial and GenZ they’re confused of what the standard is they’re not gonna uphold it. So every year that goes by that we have a crappy coach that doesn’t understand what takes to win at Kentucky. Like Rex Chapman said to Eddie Sutton when he showed off his conference championship rings. Chapman said we’re about final fours here.. where in the hell did that mentality go? Now it’s let me pull up a computer and show you why the “Kentucky standard is wrong and you guys need to change your expectations based off of it.” in the meantime, Duke’s gonna eat our lunch and UConn gonna pass UCLA. Florida is gonna dominate the SEC and we’re gonna be a midline SEC program. When the next generation starts looking at our averages, they’re gonna say “ oh what are you complaining about? We have a tournament appearance every other year. You guys have been looking at this all wrong.”

So actual hard numbers, facts, are meaningless compared to your 'feels'? That's not unreasonable at all.

 

[TotheMoon88]

I was just arguing MJ vs LeFlop on here and was told that MJ played against Plumbers and Carpenters. I have heard that about Wilt, but never about MJ lol.
So by that token, here are our Championship seasons....48,49,51,58,78.....96, 98, 12. We won 5 by 1978 and......3 in the last 48 years. Three in Forty Eight. And somehow, when a first year coach with literally no players on the roster in mid April makes the Sweet 16 there are clowns on here saying that season is a failure. I have heard this Kentucky Standards crap for the last year and the truth is, since 78 when there probably were a couple of plumbers playing, we are averaging one championship every sixteen years.....and before the 78 Title, it had been TWENTY YEARS. I am proud of the 8 Championships, but let's not pretend that four Championships between 1948 and 1958 should somehow count in the equation of what our standards are today.
We are basically the Dallas Cowboys. 5 Super Bowl wins, but their normal season before 1997 and since 1997 are two different things by a long shot. So do we want to strive for a Championship every year? Hell Yes. But if you want to crucify the coach over the last two seasons, you are venturing away from reality. He has had one bad season....and that season was filled with injuries

Didn’t you create a thread after the season was over saying to fire him?

 

[Anon1776024529]

Kentucky has a 75.6 winning percentage. That’s roughly 24-7, or even 23-8. Mark Pope has failed to live to that standard in both seasons. There have been 64 SEC tournament championships, Kentucky has won 32. The standard is 1 out of 2. Mark pope has failed on that. Kentucky has a 78 winning percentage in SEC regular season games. Mark pope is 20-16, for 55 %. He is failing at that. I think if you fail this bad in both regular season and conference tournament, you should be expected to make the elite 8 or better in at least 1 of the 2 years, or be fired. I won’t even talk about his abysmal recruiting but he has to go. We are turning into Indiana University under Pope.

 

[TotheMoon88]

I disagree that I’ve hated anything about Pope. What a bizarre comment.

Any slight criticism of pope is labeled as hate, I don’t know how you haven’t seen this

 

[UKBB4Ever]

I was just arguing MJ vs LeFlop on here and was told that MJ played against Plumbers and Carpenters. I have heard that about Wilt, but never about MJ lol.
So by that token, here are our Championship seasons....48,49,51,58,78.....96, 98, 12. We won 5 by 1978 and......3 in the last 48 years. Three in Forty Eight. And somehow, when a first year coach with literally no players on the roster in mid April makes the Sweet 16 there are clowns on here saying that season is a failure. I have heard this Kentucky Standards crap for the last year and the truth is, since 78 when there probably were a couple of plumbers playing, we are averaging one championship every sixteen years.....and before the 78 Title, it had been TWENTY YEARS. I am proud of the 8 Championships, but let's not pretend that four Championships between 1948 and 1958 should somehow count in the equation of what our standards are today.
We are basically the Dallas Cowboys. 5 Super Bowl wins, but their normal season before 1997 and since 1997 are two different things by a long shot. So do we want to strive for a Championship every year? Hell Yes. But if you want to crucify the coach over the last two seasons, you are venturing away from reality. He has had one bad season....and that season was filled with injuries

Except that is not why UK fans are down on Pope.

It has nothing to do with expectations.

It’s all about reality. No one can watch UK play and see a well coached team.

Pope’s teams are not out there competing and just catching some bad breaks.

His teams are not prepared, not in condition and prone to just quit.

Players do not get individually better playing for Pope. The team does not get better thru the season.

They actually worse. Pope’s teams are better in November than they are in February.

I can’t think of any other coach that can be said about.

Nor is Pope learning on the job. Not only do the players not improve, he hasn’t improved either.

No one that’s watched Pope’s first two teams can say that things are trending in the right direction.

And it’s not just the losses. It’s how we lose. And sometimes in how we win. Completely outplayed at LSU but got a lucky shot to escape.

I always go back to Pitino’s first season. They went 14-14 and UK fans loved that team.

One because they were outmanned against every team, even Cawood predicted 5 wins, but played their asses off every minute of every game.

Two, because it was apparent that we were trending up.

Now, if you look at that season on a chart with no context it looks like a terrible season. But if you witnessed it you knew the foundation was being laid on solid ground.

Pope is laying a foundation on sand. Doesn’t matter what any chart says.

 

[xmayor]

The thread's author presents good data and a great idea for discussion. Thank you!

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

Any slight criticism of pope is labeled as hate, I don’t know how you haven’t seen this

I think there’s a segment of people that support the coach NO MATTER WHAT and a segment of people who oppose the coach NO MATTER WHAT. I’m neither. I’m pro-Pope in the sense that I want him to succeed. But I’m not going to whitewash anything.

Also, I can be wrong…A LOT. I said Pope was a B+ recruiter. Does it make sense to hold that view now? After another offseason and more sample size? No! I’m not going to continue to say it to appease my own ego or anyone who wanted that to be the correct opinion. I’m not here for the likes, I’m here for the facts — and that’s not for everyone.

 

[TotheMoon88]

I think there’s a segment of people that support the coach NO MATTER WHAT and a segment of people who oppose the coach NO MATTER WHAT. I’m neither. I’m pro-Pope in the sense that I want him to succeed. But I’m not going to whitewash anything.

Also, I can be wrong…A LOT. I said Pope was a B+ recruiter. Does it make sense to hold that view now? After another offseason and more sample size? No! I’m not going to continue to say it to appease my own ego or anyone who wanted that to be the correct opinion. I’m not here for the likes, I’m here for the facts — and that’s not for everyone.

Well nitro has always been support the coach no matter what, he did it with cal. He’s honestly why there’s a lot of back and forth on here, because any criticism towards the coach and he comes in calling you a troll or hater

 

[UKCowboys]

Didn’t you create a thread after the season was over saying to fire him

I was on board with firing him. Did not happen. Personally, I think he will be gone next season and I hope we have a real search this time. But what I will NOT to is cry like a little ***** on a 24/7/365 basis dogging the guy out before next season even starts. Thats 3rd grade crap. Does he deserve to be fired? Maybe. Does he deserve what he gets on RR? No shot