I wonder if the SEC ever considered...

Bulldog Bruce

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Way in the past when we had less teams and conferences we played 2 series against each team so we each had home games and a pretty even schedule. So today I just thought with our upcoming series would it be helpful if the SEC gave the visiting team one game as the "home" team where they bat second? It would be a little attempt at balancing the schedule. I know it is way against Baseball tradition but it is something I would consider. Almost like playing at neutral sites in a tournament.
 

thekimmer

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I think that is a very fair and reasonable idea especially because of the schedule disparity. There is already a precedent set with the super regional format where home team bats last in game 1 then the visiting team bats last in game 2 and the 'as necessary' game 3 decided by coin flip.
 
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maroontide06

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Way in the past when we had less teams and conferences we played 2 series against each team so we each had home games and a pretty even schedule. So today I just thought with our upcoming series would it be helpful if the SEC gave the visiting team one game as the "home" team where they bat second? It would be a little attempt at balancing the schedule. I know it is way against Baseball tradition but it is something I would consider. Almost like playing at neutral sites in a tournament.
That's a fair take Bruce. Maybe you can plant the bug somewhere.
 
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HomeBoyDawg

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You Got It Ok GIF by Catfish MTV
 

maroontide06

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And you are entitled to that opinion, but as a visitor if you have an opportunity to walk a game off in your opponent’s home stadium why would you turn that opportunity down? Now granted it probably shouldn’t come to that, but sometimes that can be the difference in a win and a loss. The way things are right now, the only way to get a walk-off win is to be the home team.
 

QuaoarsKing

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And you are entitled to that opinion, but as a visitor if you have an opportunity to walk a game off in your opponent’s home stadium why would you turn that opportunity down? Now granted it probably shouldn’t come to that, but sometimes that can be the difference in a win and a loss. The way things are right now, the only way to get a walk-off win is to be the home team.
That's baseball.
 

Bulldog Bruce

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That's baseball.
Yes but baseball is also meant to be about series and multiple games against the same opponent. I understand the desire to play more teams, but that brings things like luck of the draw in on the equation. I am as much of a traditionalist as anyone but home and home series is a tradition that the SEC has lost.
 

QuaoarsKing

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Before we go down this road, I'm more interested in expanding the regular season to go through the summer. Have the CWS in August instead of June (and maybe start it a few weeks later to help the Big Ten not have as many freezing games).

There would be time to start the season 3 weeks later, play 5 more conference series so we get a true full round robin, and still have Omaha end before football starts. Why have a 2-month long break with no college sports anyway? And wouldn't the coaching staffs rather have the players playing meaningful games and developing on campus all summer instead of in far-flung summer leagues where you have to trust other coaches to do right by your players?
 

PhredPhantom

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Each team gets 27 outs to score as many runs as they can (except in the case of the seven+ inning run-rule) or, in case of a tie after 9 complete innings, equal numbers of outs/innings are played until one team wins.

If the home team has scored more runs in 24 outs (8 innings) than the visiting team does in 27 outs (9 innings), then they win and that’s fair.
 
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SoJxnVol

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Why are we making decisions to make us all fuzzy and warm on the inside? If you’re the home team, you’re the home team, if you’re the visitor, you’re the visitor. Stop changing sports where there is no logic.
 

She Mate Me

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Why are we making decisions to make us all fuzzy and warm on the inside? If you’re the home team, you’re the home team, if you’re the visitor, you’re the visitor. Stop changing sports where there is no logic.

He explains the logic clearly in his original post.

In MLB you generally get home and homes with your rivals over a season, so it evens out. That's not happening in the SEC.
 
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OG Goat Holder

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Before we go down this road, I'm more interested in expanding the regular season to go through the summer. Have the CWS in August instead of June (and maybe start it a few weeks later to help the Big Ten not have as many freezing games).

There would be time to start the season 3 weeks later, play 5 more conference series so we get a true full round robin, and still have Omaha end before football starts. Why have a 2-month long break with no college sports anyway?
Yeah, before we start tweaking the game, I think there's improvements we could make to the format. It would involve college and MLB working together to have everything aligned maybe with the 4th and/or All-Star Weekend. I agree, total void of sports in July and August, you literally have MLB dog days and golf.

Anyways, while I do love the college postseason, I question the logic of a best of 3 super regional when all season you've played 3 scheduled games on the weekend. Just a minor thing. Either way I probably wouldn't even tweak this, it's cool the way it is.

And wouldn't the coaching staffs rather have the players playing meaningful games and developing on campus all summer instead of in far-flung summer leagues where you have to trust other coaches to do right by your players?
Ha, I'll have to disagree with you here, at least with pitching. There's no development going on in college. Literally all the meaningful reps take place in the summer leagues because that's their purpose - not just to win games. Similar to MiLB. So they let guys get their feet wet and work through issues. And dudes on the bench in college also get reps.

Baseball is uniquely different than football and basketball in that practice does not really get you game-like live reps i.e. development. Which is why additional time in summer is needed.
 

bolddogge

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Before we go down this road, I'm more interested in expanding the regular season to go through the summer. Have the CWS in August instead of June (and maybe start it a few weeks later to help the Big Ten not have as many freezing games).
No. The regular season should end in close proximity to the semester. People graduate. Students go home. Crowds disappear. Postseason games are a different story.
 

Maroon13

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Nah, the sec schedule is 5 home series and 5 away series. It evens out in the end.

But then, when you get the ncaas and you can be visitor at your own park.
 
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turkish

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Way in the past when we had less teams and conferences we played 2 series against each team so we each had home games and a pretty even schedule. So today I just thought with our upcoming series would it be helpful if the SEC gave the visiting team one game as the "home" team where they bat second? It would be a little attempt at balancing the schedule. I know it is way against Baseball tradition but it is something I would consider. Almost like playing at neutral sites in a tournament.
Why is batting second an advantage? Why is being able to “walk off” an advantage?
 
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thekimmer

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Why are we making decisions to make us all fuzzy and warm on the inside? If you’re the home team, you’re the home team, if you’re the visitor, you’re the visitor. Stop changing sports where there is no logic.
It has nothing to do with feeling warm and fuzzy. It has to do with introducing just a tiny modicum of equity into a league that, due to expansion, already has significant inequity in schedule difficulty. The NCAA already does this in the super-regional format which is a best of three series with one team playing on the road and one at home. The only logic for not doing this is 'tradition'. Well, there are many traditional rules in baseball that have been changed such as the automatic walk, mercy rule, pitch clock, designated hitter, metal bats, safety base, and the list could go on.
 

jethreauxdawg

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Before we go down this road, I'm more interested in expanding the regular season to go through the summer. Have the CWS in August instead of June (and maybe start it a few weeks later to help the Big Ten not have as many freezing games).

There would be time to start the season 3 weeks later, play 5 more conference series so we get a true full round robin, and still have Omaha end before football starts. Why have a 2-month long break with no college sports anyway? And wouldn't the coaching staffs rather have the players playing meaningful games and developing on campus all summer instead of in far-flung summer leagues where you have to trust other coaches to do right by your players?
You lost me at “help the Big Ten”
 
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thekimmer

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Why is batting second an advantage? Why is being able to “walk off” an advantage?
Ever notice in OT in college football the team that wins the toss always chooses to play defense first? Same concept.

There is less pressure in the last inning for the team that hits last because no matter what the team does in the top they still get to bat in the bottom. If the other team goes ahead then you know exactly what you have to do to stay in the game. If they don't score then it becomes a sudden death situation for the other team. Its not a huge advantage but it is an advantage. If the home team is ahead they can also save an inning of pitching. That is testified by the fact that the home team does have to hit last. They get to choose and they overwhelmingly choose to hit last. On very rare occasion I have seen a team choose to hit first.
 
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Bulldog Bruce

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Why is batting second an advantage? Why is being able to “walk off” an advantage?
Knowing what you have to get to win is helpful. Strategy is different for the home team with that knowledge.

The AI answer:

Yes, batting as the home team is widely considered a significant advantage in baseball, primarily because the home team bats last in each inning. This structure provides several strategic benefits:

  • Final Opportunity: The home team has the last chance to score, allowing them to respond to the visiting team's performance in the ninth inning or extra innings.
  • Strategic Precision: Knowing the exact number of runs needed to tie or win allows managers to make optimized decisions regarding substitutions, pitching changes, and tactics like bunting or stealing.
  • Game Ending: If the home team is leading after the top of the ninth, the game ends immediately, sparing the home team from having to bat again and potentially eliminating the visiting team's final chance to rally.
Statistical evidence supports this advantage, with home teams winning approximately 53% to 54% of games. This success rate is attributed not only to batting last but also to other factors of home-field advantage, such as familiarity with the ballpark and crowd support. However, some studies suggest that while the "last at-bat" is psychologically and tactically beneficial, its isolated impact on game outcomes may be smaller than other elements like pitching quality and defense.
 
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QuaoarsKing

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You lost me at “help the Big Ten”
College Baseball needs the Big Ten to grow into the 2nd best conference and have programs like Ohio State and Michigan caring and spending money like most SEC schools do. Pushing the season back a few weeks is a small compromise to make to help facilitate that.

I think opening weekend should be the weekend after the first March Madness weekend.
 

patdog

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Yes but baseball is also meant to be about series and multiple games against the same opponent. I understand the desire to play more teams, but that brings things like luck of the draw in on the equation. I am as much of a traditionalist as anyone but home and home series is a tradition that the SEC has lost.
The downside to home and home is you never played 5 of the other 9 teams in the conference. Ever. If you did home-and-home now, you'd miss 10 teams completely. Meaning the luck of the draw would be MUCH bigger than it is with the current scheduling format. I do think for baseball, and maybe for most if not all sports, the SEC should go back to divisions. In baseball you'd play the other 7 in your division + 3 in the other division on a rotating basis.
 

She Mate Me

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Ever notice in OT in college football the team that wins the toss always chooses to play defense first? Same concept.

There is less pressure in the last inning for the team that hits last because no matter what the team does in the top they still get to bat in the bottom. If the other team goes ahead then you know exactly what you have to do to stay in the game. If they don't score then it becomes a sudden death situation for the other team. Its not a huge advantage but it is an advantage. If the home team is ahead they can also save an inning of pitching. That is testified by the fact that the home team does have to hit last. They get to choose and they overwhelmingly choose to hit last. On very rare occasion I have seen a team choose to hit first.

Divisions would be interesting in baseball. I could see a reasonably natural West Division with us, OM, LSU, Tx, Tx AM, Oklahoma, Arky and Mizzou. Keeps a bunch of rivalries intact on both sides.

Just a question of how often are we going to keep expanding?
 

Bulldog Bruce

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The downside to home and home is you never played 5 of the other 9 teams in the conference. Ever. If you did home-and-home now, you'd miss 10 teams completely. Meaning the luck of the draw would be MUCH bigger than it is with the current scheduling format. I do think for baseball, and maybe for most if not all sports, the SEC should go back to divisions. In baseball you'd play the other 7 in your division + 3 in the other division on a rotating basis.
I agree about the downside and understand why it is like it is. I am just wondering if you give the visiting team one "home" game, like in the super regionals already, would that give a tiny bit towards evening the advantages out? Both teams get the the home strategy for at least the first two games.

From my understanding when the first expansion happened there were complaints from the East side that their travel budgets were much more than the west. The longest trip we had was to Baton Rouge. All the other schools were fairly close. The East had Lexington to Gainsville and were more spread out.

There is a good thing about being the visiting team also from a players standpoint. As a hitter I get my full 9 innings of at bats. As a team if you are behind after 8 and a half you don't have to use a pitcher for the ninth so less stress on bullpen.
 
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turkish

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Knowing what you have to get to win is helpful. Strategy is different for the home team with that knowledge.

The AI answer:

Yes, batting as the home team is widely considered a significant advantage in baseball, primarily because the home team bats last in each inning. This structure provides several strategic benefits:

  • Final Opportunity: The home team has the last chance to score, allowing them to respond to the visiting team's performance in the ninth inning or extra innings.
  • Strategic Precision: Knowing the exact number of runs needed to tie or win allows managers to make optimized decisions regarding substitutions, pitching changes, and tactics like bunting or stealing.
  • Game Ending: If the home team is leading after the top of the ninth, the game ends immediately, sparing the home team from having to bat again and potentially eliminating the visiting team's final chance to rally.
Statistical evidence supports this advantage, with home teams winning approximately 53% to 54% of games. This success rate is attributed not only to batting last but also to other factors of home-field advantage, such as familiarity with the ballpark and crowd support. However, some studies suggest that while the "last at-bat" is psychologically and tactically beneficial, its isolated impact on game outcomes may be smaller than other elements like pitching quality and defense.
I would argue that the 53% metric proves it’s of no benefit. I think psychology could easily account for that small increment, suggesting statistics imply there’s no measurable benefit to batting last.
 

Bulldog Bruce

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I would argue that the 53% metric proves it’s of no benefit. I think psychology could easily account for that small increment, suggesting statistics imply there’s no measurable benefit to batting last.
a .530 winning percentage is 29-26 in 55 games. Where 1 game can be the difference, 53% is significant.
 
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turkish

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a .530 winning percentage is 29-26 in 55 games. Where 1 game can be the difference, 53% is significant.
Sure. My point is that that could be due to fans and field familiarity, not batting last. We’d have to look at data for neutral site games.

ChatGPT gave me this when prompted to tell me about studies that analyzed neutral sites…
the best studies suggest that batting last provides little to no measurable advantage by itself, once you remove the usual “home field” factors.

The two key studies are:
  1. Simon & Simonoff (2006), “Last Licks: Do They Really Help?”
    • Looked at NCAA tournament baseball games where batting order was assigned independently of venue advantage.
    • Found little evidence that batting last increased win probability in a statistically significant way.
  2. Bray, Obara & Kwan (2005), “Batting Last as a Home Advantage Factor in Men’s NCAA Tournament Baseball”
    • Specifically tested whether host teams won more often when batting last in NCAA regionals.
    • Their conclusion: “batting last contributes minimally, if at all, to home advantage.”