Buckle up for a 20 loss season

[Praetorian Cat]

You are just an incorrigible clown. The fact that different states had different rules neither proves nor establishes anything. You would have had to outline exactly what they were, how that is relevant to UK BB and allow the claims to be subject to scrutiny to have any point at all.

If incorrigible clown equates to honest person stating facts in your world, then sure!

It proves different places had different rules/laws. That itself establishes that it wasn't equal.

I don't have to outline that though. You have demonstrated an ability to read and use the internet and are therefore likely capable of doing that yourself.

Did TX have the same restrictions as KY?

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

If incorrigible clown equates to honest person stating facts in your world, then sure!

It proves different places had different rules/laws. That itself establishes that it wasn't equal.

I don't have to outline that though. You have demonstrated an ability to read and use the internet and are therefore likely capable of doing that yourself.

Did TX have the same restrictions as KY?

Did U of L have the same restrictions as UK? Different states having different rules was never in question. How that has anything to do with 9-16 is very much in question. You have never even attempted to establish how that applies to college BB.

 

[Praetorian Cat]

Did U of L have the same restrictions as UK?

Are they the same school or in the same conference?

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Are they the same school or in the same conference?

Your claim is state law and restrictions was the issue. Are they in the same state? Was UK not allowed to practice or something? You are citing something and not relating it to the issue in anyway. It is about like claiming Florida went 9-17 in '69 because of the moon launch and then me calling you ignorant because you don't know about the moon mission.

 

[Praetorian Cat]

Your claim is state law and restrictions was the issue. Are they in the same state? Was UK not allowed to practice or something? You are citing something and not relating it to the issue in anyway.

Did I? Or did I say states, conferences and schools all had their own laws, rules and guidelines?

Why the need to misrepresent the truth?

Not normally, no. They also had a lot of restrictions about player interactions outside of practice, and it was well documented they had to spend a lot of their time individually to practice social distancing. That's obviously going to cause issues for a young team that had little to no chemistry compared to say Baylor who was in TX and the big 13 that had different laws, rules and guidelines, plus they were an older team who already had a lot of built in chemistry.

Those are the facts, girl.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Did I? Or did I say states, conferences and schools all had their own laws, rules and guidelines?

Why the need to misrepresent the truth?

Not normally, no. They also had a lot of restrictions about player interactions outside of practice, and it was well documented they had to spend a lot of their time individually to practice social distancing. That's obviously going to cause issues for a young team that had little to no chemistry compared to say Baylor who was in TX and the big 13 that had different laws, rules and guidelines, plus they were an older team who already had a lot of built in chemistry.

Those are the facts, girl.

Are you in middle school? The girl thing is extremely juvenile. You are just reaching to excuse your hero for doing a horrible job that year. At least you did attempt some specifics at last but they are still lame excuses. The rest of our conference did not have monumentally horrific seasons because of the rules. The FB team had a reasonable season and a big bowl win against a ridiculously difficult schedule. UK baseball managed a winning record at 29-23. UK women's BB managed a winning record at 18-9 that year(Kyra Elzy's best season at UK). The rifle team won the national championship. The UK cheerleading team won its first Division IA Game Day Cheer national championship in 2021.

 

[Praetorian Cat]

Are you in middle school? The girl thing is extremely juvenile. You are just reaching to excuse your hero for doing a horrible job that year. At least you did attempt some specifics at last but they are still lame excuses. The rest of our conference did not have monumentally horrific seasons because of the rules. The FB team had a reasonable season and a big bowl win against a ridiculously difficult schedule. UK baseball managed a winning record at 29-23. UK women's BB managed a winning record at 18-9 that year. The rifle team won the national championship. The UK cheerleading team won its first Division IA Game Day Cheer national championship in 2021.

Lol, my hero. Is Pope your hero?

I'm not really reaching. I am providing facts and context.

I didn't really attempt anything though. I simply gave you facts.

Football and basketball are completely different. Football players live off campus for starters, so they aren't under the same rules. They also aren't as reliant on integrating new rosters annually.

Football went 5-6, 4-6 in the SEC. Lol. We beat NC state in the Gatorade bowl.

Lol, only 2 teams out of the SEC cracked 20 wins that year. We finished a seed higher that year than we did this year. 6 of the 14 teams finished behind us.

Rifle? You mean the guys that shoot individually?

Were those other teams trying to integrate new rosters and build chemistry without being able to be around each other? Or did they have pre-existing chemistry already established? Did they live in the craft center or on campus or in off campus places where they weren't under UK restrictions?

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Lol, my hero. Is Pope your hero?

I'm not really reaching. I am providing facts and context.

I didn't really attempt anything though. I simply gave you facts.

Football and basketball are completely different. Football players live off campus for starters, so they aren't under the same rules. They also aren't as reliant on integrating new rosters annually.

Lol, only 2 teams out of the SEC cracked 20 wins that year. We finished a seed higher that year than we did this year. 6 of the 14 teams finished behind us.

Rifle? You mean the guys that shoot individually?

Women's BB? (Elzy's best UK record despite supposedly insurmountable restrictions), Cheerleading? Baseball? The dismissal of FB as exempt from Covid restriction is pretty silly as well. FB clearly has the most legitimate excuse playing the all SEC schedule imo.

6 SEC teams finishing behind us despite the same conference restrictions? Is it your assertion that their states restrictions were therefore more extreme?

 

[Praetorian Cat]

Women's BB? (Elzy's best UK record despite supposedly insurmountable restrictions), Cheerleading? Baseball? The dismissal of FB as exempt from Covid restriction is pretty silly as well. FB clearly has the most legitimate excuse playing the all SEC schedule imo.

6 SEC teams finishing behind us despite the same conference restrictions? Is it your assertion that their states restrictions were therefore more extreme?

18-9 overall and 9-6 in the SEC for 5th place. The year before they were 22-8 and finished 3rd in the SEC. They regressed and you're using that as your support?

So football players live in campus? They rely heavily on building new rosters yearly and out of mostly freshman? Not silly at all when it's reality. They also went 4-6 in that all SEC schedule. That's not good. Lol. Previous year we were 8-5. The year after, 10-3. Yet, you still don't think covid caused any issues and you're using that as support.

Cheerleading? Baseball?

That is certainly always possible, yet, considering the teams at the bottom that year are historically at the bottom most years, sans small periods, and UK was an anomaly to that point, (obviously not in the Pope era) it's more likely they just repeated their historical behavior.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

18-9 overall and 9-6 in the SEC for 5th place. The year before they were 22-8 snd finished 3rd in the SEC. The regressed and you're using that as your support?

So football players liv

It sure beats the crap out of 9-16 doesn't it? We also went from a coach (Mitchell) who won 69.5% at UK in the 22 win season to a coach (Elzy) that won 50.4% at UK that season.

 

[RunninRichie]

It sure beats the crap out of 9-16 doesn't it?

They both suck.

 

[moses1uk]

You posted this as if it is fact. Has there been an official report? Do you have a link to provide or is this just a guess and a desire to be negative?

Try getting informed next time

 

[Praetorian Cat]

It sure beats the crap out of 9-16 doesn't it? We also went from a coach (Mitchell) who won 69.5% at UK in the 22 win season to a coach (Elzy) that won 50.4% at UK that season.

Considering all the factors, not really, no.

Which is why it was a moronic comparison on your part, girl! Like, duh!!!!

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Don't see 20 but we can make a run at our standard 12 to 14.

 

[Gobigblue812812]

MODS: PLEASE PLACE THIS THREAD UP IN THE STICKY THREADS SO IT DOESN'T GET LOST AND WE CAN REVISIT THIS NEXT MARCH.

Thanks in advance.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Try getting informed next time

You declared Stokes to the Ducks as if it were a done deal. That is not what this says at all. I also asked you if it was official and requested a link which you clearly could not provide since your post was deceptive. I never tried to say they weren't in the picture.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Considering all the factors, not really, no.

Which is why it was a moronic comparison on your part, girl! Like, duh!!!!

Only an incorrigible fool would refuse to concede that 18-9 is a world better than 9-16. You are utterly incapable of discussing something in good faith. You do seem to have mastered childish insults though.

What factors are you referring to anyway? The men's team had the continuity of a HOF coach. The women's team just lost perhaps their best coach ever and replaced him with one that struggled mightily. Were there different Covid rules and restrictions for the men's and women's teams?

 

[Stenchymouse]

I don't think we'll lose 20 games.

I realistically expect to finish with around a .500 record.

 

[BlueBloodKyFan72]

 

[Praetorian Cat]

Only an incorrigible fool would refuse to concede that 18-9 is a world better than 9-16. You are utterly incapable of discussing something in good faith. You do seem to have mastered childish insults though.

What factors are you referring to anyway? The men's team had the continuity of a HOF coach. The women's team just lost perhaps their best coach ever and replaced him with one that struggled mightily. Were there different Covid rules and restrictions for the men's and women's teams?

You're the one ignoring facts and context. That seems pretty foolish to me.

Players and how the rosters were built. Elzy inherited a strong team from Matthews and regressed. Cal lost most of his roster, brought in transfers and mostly freshman and was not able to develop their chemistry as he had a history of doing. Rules, Laws and guidelines from covid caused that. Would we have been great? Nope!

Possibly. What are the girls living arrangements and where they kept away from each other?

Girl, you're just suffering from CDS. You need to get some help for that ****.

 

[Aike]

I think Pope has done a poor job in a lot of ways, but I’m not giving up on next year’s team yet.

Even with the pieces we have today - we don’t know how well this backcourt will play together, we don’t know how much Moreno and Kam will improve, we don’t know if Noah will shake the yips, we don’t really know how good Hawthorne is.

That, and we’re not done. I’m going to cheer for the players who want to be here, if they play hard and play together. If they don’t, I’ll turn the tv off and wait for the next coach. But it’s only April right now.

 

[anon1777473514]

I think Pope has done a poor job in a lot of ways, but I’m not giving up on next year’s yet.

Even with the pieces we have today - we don’t know how well this backcourt will play together, we don’t know how much Moreno and Kam will improve, we don’t know if Noah will shake the yips, we don’t really know how good Hawthorne is.

That, and we’re not done. I’m going to cheer for the players who want to be here, if they play hard and play together. If they don’t, I’ll turn the tv off and wait for the next coach. But it’s only April right now.

Thank goodness for this post. I needed someone to say something positive.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

You're the one ignoring facts and context. That seems pretty foolish to me.

Players and how the rosters were built. Elzy inherited a strong team from Matthews and regressed. Cal lost most of his roster, brought in transfers and mostly freshman and was not able to develop their chemistry as he had a history of doing. Rules, Laws and guidelines from covid caused that. Would we have been great? Nope!

Possibly. What are the girls living arrangements and where they kept away from each other?

Girl, you're just suffering from CDS. You need to get some help for that ****.

You are dead wrong about everything as always. I always liked Cal and recognized him as a top level coach back to his UMass days. I am one of the few that never once called for getting rid of him. There is just no denying he did a very poor job with the '21 team however. I think injury had a lot more impact on that team than Covid ever did. It is hard to accept the injury excuse though due to the fact that he refused to use all of his scholarships (this is what I would consider a primary factor). If we had gone 18-9 then I might accept that Covid was a big factor in that but no way you can pin 9-16 primarily on Covid.

 

[Praetorian Cat]

You are dead wrong about everything as always. I always liked Cal and recognized him as a top level coach back to his UMass days. I am one of the few that never once called for getting rid of him. There is just no denying he did a very poor job with the '21 team however. I think injury had a lot more impact on that team than Covid ever did. It is hard to accept the injury excuse though due to the fact that he refused to use all of his scholarships. If we had gone 18-9 then I might accept that Covid was a big factor in that but no way you can pin 9-16 primarily on Covid.

That's one posters opinion.

You clearly developed a strong case of CDS since.

I never said covid was the exclusive reason. Roster turnover, injuries, poor player projections all played a factor, but a big factor was covid. Ignoring that would be foolish.

A young team has to develop chemistry and chemistry can't be built when players are basically being kept apart off the court.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

You remain consistently wrong. I do not dislike Cal and would be fine with him still being here for that matter but it is utterly foolish to ignore that he had a really bad year that can not be fairly pinned on Covid. I could see blaming it for a somewhat down year but no way is it primarily responsible for what may be the worst season in school history. Relying so much on Askew for example was not going to work even if Covid had never come along.

 

[Praetorian Cat]

You remain consistently wrong. I do not dislike Cal and would be fine with him still being here for that matter but it is utterly foolish to ignore that he had a really bad year that can not be fairly pinned on Covid. I could see blaming it for a somewhat down year but no way is it primarily responsible for what may be the worst season in school history. Relying so much on Askew for example was not going to work even if Covid had never come along.

Again, it's the facts, not me. Covid negatively impacted that team and others.

Askew, Boston, Jackson and others are all better without the covid restrictions and being able to build chemistry. Are they national championship team? Probably not. But they are still better.

If you could show other similar years under Cal, you would have a better argument. However, you have 1 anomaly of a season that directly coincides with covid. Cal teams had other bad PGs and still won more. He had other teams with injured players and still won more. The one factor that he only had once was covid. Stevie Wonder could see the truth here.

 

[UKortho]

They are going to lose many games next year but Pope will try and find and obscure stat that proves he is moving in the right direction.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Again, it's the facts, not me. Covid negatively impacted that team and others.

Askew, Boston, Jackson and others are all better without the covid restrictions and being able to build chemistry. Are they national championship team? Probably not. But they are still better.

If you could show other similar years under Cal, you would have a better argument. However, you have 1 anomaly of a season that directly coincides with covid. Cal teams had other bad PGs and still won more. He had other teams with injured players and still won more. The one factor that he only had once was covid. Stevie Wonder could see the truth here.

Saying it is fact over and over does not make it fact.

Which season was PG play as bad as Askew? 2013 is the closest in can think of. It was still much better than Askew. That team missed the tourney playing against the weakest schedule of the Calipari era.

Askew was even worse the next season at Texas so I'm not buying Covid holding him back being the big issue. I haven't claimed it had no impact (as I said something like 18-9 might wash) but you can't blame something as historically pathetic as 9-16 all on Covid. As I said the team ended up short handed due to injury as well as Fletcher leaving and Cal's choice to only use 11 of his scholarships was a big factor in that. It was also rated the most difficult schedule Cal played while at UK. I assume you will insist on putting all the blame on Covid rather than admitting injuries and schedule matter though.

This is like blaming Sutton's horrible season entirely on the investigation. It undoubtedly had a negative impact (I'd say much more than Covid) but it was exacerbated by heavy drinking on his part. PG play was also an issue that season though Sean Sutton was considerably better that year than what Askew gave us. That team still should have been good enough to post a winning record just as 2020-2021 should have.

 

[Praetorian Cat]

Saying it is fact over and over does not make it fact.

Which season was PG play as bad as Askew? 2013 is the closest in can think of. It was still much better than Askew. That team missed the tourney playing against the weakest schedule of the Calipari era.

Askew was even worse the next season at Texas so I'm not buying Covid holding him back being the big issue. I haven't claimed it had no impact (as I said something like 18-9 might wash) but you can't blame something as historically pathetic as 9-16 all on Covid. As I said the team ended up short handed due to injury as well as Fletcher leaving and Cal's choice to only use 11 of his scholarships was a big factor in that. It was also rated the most difficult schedule Cal played while at UK. I assume you will insist on putting all the blame on Covid rather than admitting injuries and schedule matter though.

This is like blaming Sutton's horrible season entirely on the investigation. It undoubtedly had a negative impact (I'd say much more than Covid) but it was exacerbated by heavy drinking on his part. PG play was also an issue that season though Sean Sutton was considerably better that year than what Askew gave us. That team still should have been good enough to post a winning record just as 2020-2021 should have.

Except it is literally a fact.

13 was bad, Quade Greene was bad, Wheeler was bad, Harrison struggled bad until late in the year. So there's been several.

Askew struggled partially because he wasn't able to be developed ir build much chemistry. He got pretty decent later on in his career. But that logic is lost on you. He was also a reclass who was a year behind everyone else coming in.

What was so difficult about the schedule? Who did we play that was so superior or difficult?

Lol, Fletcher wasn't even good and was a head case.

Lulz, where have I ever said Covid was th sole factor? If you have to lie, you've already lost your argument, girl.

I mean, the bigger factor was the investigation, though. That would he the honest answer, as is saying Covid was the biggest factor for that team.

You'll get there, princess.

 

[kywildcat1021979]

You guys are jumping off the wagon too soon. In Pope there is hope!

That wagon sure is beautiful!

 

[notFromhere]

Barring some miraculous pickup of Tyran Stokes + Graves/Milan/Miikka/some unknown euro stud, we are heading for the worst non-covid year of Kentucky basketball since Eddie Sutton’s final season.

Our best returning player was outshined by Brandon Garrison the whole month of March and only had one double double against a power 5 opponent all season. Kam returns after scoring in double figures against P5 opponents just twice, with one being against that awful MSU team.

I actually like Alex Wilkins, but the analytics do not. Evan Miya has him ranked almost 200 spots below Jasper Johnson for last season, and his defensive metrics make me worried he could be a score 15/give up 15 type of player at this level. And there’s always the physicality of the SEC that makes it uncertain if he’ll be the high level scorer we need.

Zoom Diallo is our best pickup, but I think it’s safe to say his Washington roster last season was more talented than what we currently have…and they went 16-17. He had a lotto pick at the 4, Wesley Yates who we wanted badly last year, and several other solid transfers.

Otega’s production will be extremely difficult to replace. In SEC + postseason play he averaged 21.5 PPG, 5 RPG, 2.6 APG, and 2 stocks. He was the only star caliber player of the pope era and also did a lot of dirty work, getting into passing lanes, etc. Idk who takes on his role this year.

Oh and the ultimate kicker? We once again are looking at not having enough shooting under a coach who needs shooting to unlock his entire system. Zoom and Wilkins are solid but there’s no dead eye like Brea here. Kam was an average shooter against real comp last year. The shooters we have been connected with are low volume guys. For some reason we didn’t even seem to get in real contention for a guy like Stefan Vaaks who made 91 threes last season. The lack of high end talent is enough of an issue, but pope isn’t even building a roster that plays to his strengths either.

Pair all of this with the fact that we’ll play one of the hardest SOS’s in the country once again and it’s looking unbelievably bleak.

And maybe the most frustrating part of all of it is Pope chose to put himself at a disadvantage by not hiring a GM. Reporters pressed him on it for months and he just shrugged it off, and now look where we are. Not even targeting the real big fish and being rejected by 2nd tier guys and having to look at JMU transfers and NIT team role players.

Sorry for the long post but I just had to vent. I’m preparing myself for the ugliest season of Kentucky basketball in my adult lifetime.

You do you. Lol. Does that mean you won't have to continually btch about it like the rest of the people here? Because that would be great if it was just the one post.

If not you'll fit right in here at RR.

 

[will1976]

Whiffy joins Clyde and Curly to form the three stooges of Kentucky basketball coaching.

Agreed

 

[notFromhere]

Sadly yes. I wanted him to succeed so badly but he has failed miserably.

For me it all comes down to coaching screening properly and his failure to teach or command it. If he was able or willing to do that well, we wouldn't have trouble signing anyone. Softness is all I can see in that regard.

What good, 3pt shooter wants to sign with a team that can't screen worth a sht? What PF wants to sign with a team that can't sign one or get a shot for their 3pt shooters? No PF wants to play for a team whose opponents can just pack the paint.

Everybody wants to be able to face the bucket. We couldn't buy one when it counted, and certainly couldn't manufacture one. That's where the failure is for me. Very similar to Cal in that regard, and to Cal's refusal to implement zone tactics during his tenure here.

 

[notFromhere]

Your claim is state law and restrictions was the issue. Are they in the same state? Was UK not allowed to practice or something? You are citing something and not relating it to the issue in anyway. It is about like claiming Florida went 9-17 in '69 because of the moon launch and then me calling you ignorant because you don't know about the moon mission.

I wasted reasoning with that poster on one conversation. There's nothing good to be had and they will just waste your time with more fallacies. Just a heads up

 

[bigblueinsanity (the real)]

Unless the sec is unexpectedly weak, this is a real possibility. Last year we played the opening sec tournament game, which was embarrassing enough but this season is currently sizing up to be worse. We're a key injury away from it being significantly worse.