OT: College enrollment and financial issues?

[mdk02]

NJT announced the expansion last year. It was held up because it was supposed to extend to Tenafly and they kept opposing it.

https://www.hobokengirl.com/hudson-bergen-light-rail-expansion-nj-2025/

The condos he is referencing are in Cliffside Park, the Winston Towers, though it looks like the amusement park straddled the border with Fort Lee.

Palisades Amusement Park - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hadn't heard about the latest. In both the 90's and 00's Tenafly wasn't the problem. As the article says the final stop is
Englewood Hospital I'm not sure the problem this time is Tenafly, though it's early in the process.

 

[Fat Koko]

I had a gig in NJ Transit's real estate department in late 90s. Back then, the system was expanding rapidly and ridership was growing too. Here are some of the projects.

- Hudson-Bergen Light Rail – 24 stations in Hudson County where population growth is fastest in state and public transit use is high
- Secaucus Junction – Enables transfer between 9 rail lines
- Kearny Connection – Established one-seat ride to Manhattan for Morris and Essex Lines riders
- Montclair Connection – Established one-seat ride to Manhattan for Montclair Connection
- Meadowlands Rail Line – Established rail connection to New Jersey’s largest stadium
- Built in-fill stations – Union, Montclair State University, Meadowlands, Pennsauken, Ramsey, Wayne
- Renovated numerous stations including New Brunswick
- Built new concourse and entrance to the concourse at New York Penn Station
- River Line – 21 stations between Trenton and Camden

At the time, New Jersey's economy was booming. Plus, Manhattan companies were hiring like crazy. None of this is happening today. NJT's ridership peaked in 2015, then was flattened by Covid, and ridership still isn't close to recovering to the pre-Covid level. 2025 was lower than 2024. Service quality is declining too - as I type this, NJT is experienced 60 minute delays. All this, combined with NJ Transit's terrible finances, make another system expansion such as HBLR extension unlikely.

The 7 train extension to Secaucus looks logical on a map but building a new tunnel is required and the financing isn't available. The better way to get from Manhattan to MetLife is the bus from Port Authority Bus Terminal.

I asked the NJ Transit bosses why the River LINE was being built because I didn't think it was going to get the ridership. The answer was the only way to pass state funding for the Hudson Bergen Light Rail was build another light rail in South Jersey. HBLR does 8x the ridership 1/2 the line length.

Another one I looked at was the MOM line which would run parallel to the NJ Shore branch but about 15 miles inland. The local governments along the proposed MOM routes would pass resolutions supporting or opposing the project and send them to NJ Transit. Several municipalities opposing the project passed resolutions supporting the identical project, based on what a few loudmouths in their communities were saying at the time. Maybe something similar is going on with the HBLR extension in Bergen County.

Rutgers should work to get New Brunswick station renamed Rutgers New Brunswick station.

 

[Retired711]

https://www.hobokengirl.com/hudson-bergen-light-rail-expansion-nj-2025/

There is mass transit from Met Life into NYC. Right now it just requires a transfer at Secaucus. Secaucus is the first stop from NYC on most trains into NJ. Additionally, during events, there is a direct train from Met Life to Hoboken (with a stop in Secaucus) and then you can take the PATH or ferry into the city, but that service is unfortunately all too infrequent. After a concert last summer I had an obnoxious transfer in Secaucus to get back to Hoboken Terminal, despite how close it is.

Perhaps what you are thinking about was Bloomberg's proposal to expand the 7 train into NJ. Right now the 7 goes from the Javits Center to Flushing (and has a stop at Citi Field). He suggested bringing it across the Hudson with a stop somewhere in northern Hudson County (likely Union City) and Secaucus. Would allow someone to get from Queens or Midtown to Met Life with one transfer.

7 Subway Extension - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You write "just a transfer." That's correct, but the literature shows that people absolutely despise transferring; a minute waiting for a transfer is considered as bad as ten additional minutes of riding.

Thanks for the information about the 7 train expansion. I think we'd agree that it's not likely to happen any time soon.

 

[Retired711]

I had a gig in NJ Transit's real estate department in late 90s. Back then, the system was expanding rapidly and ridership was growing too. Here are some of the projects.

- Hudson-Bergen Light Rail – 24 stations in Hudson County where population growth is fastest in state and public transit use is high
- Secaucus Junction – Enables transfer between 9 rail lines
- Kearny Connection – Established one-seat ride to Manhattan for Morris and Essex Lines riders
- Montclair Connection – Established one-seat ride to Manhattan for Montclair Connection
- Meadowlands Rail Line – Established rail connection to New Jersey’s largest stadium
- Built in-fill stations – Union, Montclair State University, Meadowlands, Pennsauken, Ramsey, Wayne
- Renovated numerous stations including New Brunswick
- Built new concourse and entrance to the concourse at New York Penn Station
- River Line – 21 stations between Trenton and Camden

At the time, New Jersey's economy was booming. Plus, Manhattan companies were hiring like crazy. None of this is happening today. NJT's ridership peaked in 2015, then was flattened by Covid, and ridership still isn't close to recovering to the pre-Covid level. 2025 was lower than 2024. Service quality is declining too - as I type this, NJT is experienced 60 minute delays. All this, combined with NJ Transit's terrible finances, make another system expansion such as HBLR extension unlikely.

The 7 train extension to Secaucus looks logical on a map but building a new tunnel is required and the financing isn't available. The better way to get from Manhattan to MetLife is the bus from Port Authority Bus Terminal.

I asked the NJ Transit bosses why the River LINE was being built because I didn't think it was going to get the ridership. The answer was the only way to pass state funding for the Hudson Bergen Light Rail was build another light rail in South Jersey. HBLR does 8x the ridership 1/2 the line length.

Another one I looked at was the MOM line which would run parallel to the NJ Shore branch but about 15 miles inland. The local governments along the proposed MOM routes would pass resolutions supporting or opposing the project and send them to NJ Transit. Several municipalities opposing the project passed resolutions supporting the identical project, based on what a few loudmouths in their communities were saying at the time. Maybe something similar is going on with the HBLR extension in Bergen County.

Rutgers should work to get New Brunswick station renamed Rutgers New Brunswick station.

The NJ River Line has fallen far short of ridership projections. It was clear even when it opened that it was a political payoff to enable other projects to be built. South Jersey would have done much better for the Glassboro-Camden line to have been built then.

 

[mdk02]

The NJ River Line has fallen far short of ridership projections. It was clear even when it opened that it was a political payoff to enable other projects to be built. South Jersey would have done much better for the Glassboro-Camden line to have been built then.

The Hudson-Bergen Light Rail is misnamed. It's the Hudson Light Rail. And I'll bet if they had extended it to either Englewood or Tenafly the ridership would exceed the NJ River Line.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Hadn't heard about the latest. In both the 90's and 00's Tenafly wasn't the problem. As the article says the final stop is
Englewood Hospital I'm not sure the problem this time is Tenafly, though it's early in the process.

As of 2017, they were opposed. They voted against it in a referendum as well.

https://www.nj.com/bergen/2017/01/town_that_derailed_bergen_light_rail_plans_reflects_on_decision_to_fight.html

 

[NotInRHouse]

You write "just a transfer." That's correct, but the literature shows that people absolutely despise transferring; a minute waiting for a transfer is considered as bad as ten additional minutes of riding.

Thanks for the information about the 7 train expansion. I think we'd agree that it's not likely to happen any time soon.

I don't doubt it's annoying. Is it more annoying than paying for parking and the traffic to get out? That idk.

Personally I find it less annoying than waiting for a uber. And a ride from there in clear conditions is like 15 minutes home for me. But post an event, it's a madhouse, and the train is the least-madhousy way out IMO.

7 won't happen soon, but would love to NJ to drop its congestion pricing lawsuit in exchange for moving it forward in some way from NY.

 

[NotInRHouse]

The Hudson-Bergen Light Rail is misnamed. It's the Hudson Light Rail. And I'll bet if they had extended it to either Englewood or Tenafly the ridership would exceed the NJ River Line.

The intent though was always to include Bergen. Of course, the Hudson part is the highest traffic part of the line, it's the most dense area of the country and among the lowest in car ownership. Bergen will still use more than SJ, hopefully things get moving soon.

My understanding is that NJT doesn't want to fund new stops but will work on their end of the bargain if developers contribute. I am not sure which of the Bergen proposed stops are near sites for development.

 

[Retired711]

I don't doubt it's annoying. Is it more annoying than paying for parking and the traffic to get out? That idk.

Personally I find it less annoying than waiting for a uber. And a ride from there in clear conditions is like 15 minutes home for me. But post an event, it's a madhouse, and the train is the least-madhousy way out IMO.

7 won't happen soon, but would love to NJ to drop its congestion pricing lawsuit in exchange for moving it forward in some way from NY.

Some years ago I did a lot of research on the failed attempt to require employers to get their workers to come to work by other than single-occupancy vehicles. A lot of people prefer to pay for parking and endure traffic for the sake of the sense of control they get from having the freedom to leave home or work as they want and from being able to control their environment while driving. In addition, many people like to do errands on the way to or from work, and driving alone.

It proves to be darn hard to get people out of their cars no matter how much rapid transit is improved. You may have seen the article in yesterday's Times about the financial problems of the San Francisco area's BART rail system; the same is true of the equally high-tech Metrorail in the D.C. area. Both systems are at the edge of fiscal collapse. Chicago's and Philadelphia's systems have big fiscal problems as well.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Some years ago I did a lot of research on the failed attempt to require employers to get their workers to come to work by other than single-occupancy vehicles. A lot of people prefer to pay for parking and endure traffic for the sake of the sense of control they get from having the freedom to leave home or work as they want and from being able to control their environment while driving. In addition, many people like to do errands on the way to or from work, and driving alone.

It proves to be darn hard to get people out of their cars no matter how much rapid transit is improved. You may have seen the article in yesterday's Times about the financial problems of the San Francisco area's BART rail system; the same is true of the equally high-tech Metrorail in the D.C. area. Both systems are at the edge of fiscal collapse. Chicago's and Philadelphia's systems have big fiscal problems as well.

I understand that for work. Not 10-11pm pulling out of a concert at the Meadowlands, or even a Sunday afternoon after a NFL game. I think this area is probably the most pro transit in the US, in the areas close to the Stadium there are many people with no car. Most people still consider it foolhardy to drive into Manhattan, and I think increasingly you have that in Hudson County and the closer in parts of BK and Queens. I get in smaller cities it's different, and both SF and DC have some of the biggest shift to remote work. Transit here isn't on Europe level, but it's probably the best you will get in the US. I only keep a car because my family lives in a public transit desert, and the transit to places I like to go on weekends, like the shore or RU, is obnoxious. But someone who is more interested in just getting to Manhattan, the area airports and stadiums, can do it easily. I have a friend who commutes from Hoboken to J&J in NB on NJT too, during the week it's definitely very feasible.

The issue remains in my view that many suburban areas in NJ are poorly served. To use an example of where I grew up in Monmouth County, the closest NJT station was about 20 minutes away and it definitely would be easiest to drive to the Meadowlands. The bus was maybe a mile or two, and that would at least get you to the PABT, which is probably better than a lot of the state. But to get to smaller urban areas, or places where parking would be obnoxious like the airport or beach, you're SOL.

I actually took the BART from SF to the Raiders stadium when I was there. That article was pretty sad. Going backwards on PT is something I think most cities regret.

 

[Retired711]

I understand that for work. Not 10-11pm pulling out of a concert at the Meadowlands, or even a Sunday afternoon after a NFL game. I think this area is probably the most pro transit in the US, in the areas close to the Stadium there are many people with no car. Most people still consider it foolhardy to drive into Manhattan, and I think increasingly you have that in Hudson County and the closer in parts of BK and Queens. I get in smaller cities it's different, and both SF and DC have some of the biggest shift to remote work. Transit here isn't on Europe level, but it's probably the best you will get in the US. I only keep a car because my family lives in a public transit desert, and the transit to places I like to go on weekends, like the shore or RU, is obnoxious. But someone who is more interested in just getting to Manhattan, the area airports and stadiums, can do it easily. I have a friend who commutes from Hoboken to J&J in NB on NJT too, during the week it's definitely very feasible.

The issue remains in my view that many suburban areas in NJ are poorly served. To use an example of where I grew up in Monmouth County, the closest NJT station was about 20 minutes away and it definitely would be easiest to drive to the Meadowlands. The bus was maybe a mile or two, and that would at least get you to the PABT, which is probably better than a lot of the state. But to get to smaller urban areas, or places where parking would be obnoxious like the airport or beach, you're SOL.

I actually took the BART from SF to the Raiders stadium when I was there. That article was pretty sad. Going backwards on PT is something I think most cities regret.

Many people, myself included, are reluctant to use rapid transit late in the evening. So I'm not sure what would be the return on investment from improvements in mass transit, even in our region.

There was once a time when the biggest mass transit day was . . . Sunday. That's long gone.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Many people, myself included, are reluctant to use rapid transit late in the evening. So I'm not sure what would be the return on investment from improvements in mass transit, even in our region.

There was once a time when the biggest mass transit day was . . . Sunday. That's long gone.

I am saying Sunday simply because it's an NFL stadium. But the idea would apply to a Saturday soccer or college football game.

In this area, you can get on the PATH at 4AM and need to stand. Few people have trepidation about traveling on PT late at night. As an RU student I used to take the last NJT train to NB (then it was after 1AM, not sure about now) and it was always full.

The NYT article implied there were safety concerns about BART, but honestly, given the way the national media treats the NYC subway I'm skeptical. At least when I took it, the most scary thing was how some Raiders fans dress lol.

 

[Fat Koko]

Some years ago I did a lot of research on the failed attempt to require employers to get their workers to come to work by other than single-occupancy vehicles. A lot of people prefer to pay for parking and endure traffic for the sake of the sense of control they get from having the freedom to leave home or work as they want and from being able to control their environment while driving. In addition, many people like to do errands on the way to or from work, and driving alone.

It proves to be darn hard to get people out of their cars no matter how much rapid transit is improved. You may have seen the article in yesterday's Times about the financial problems of the San Francisco area's BART rail system; the same is true of the equally high-tech Metrorail in the D.C. area. Both systems are at the edge of fiscal collapse. Chicago's and Philadelphia's systems have big fiscal problems as well.

Remember the 287 HOV lanes debacle and the sHOVe it website in late 90s?

The feds funded 287 HOV carpool lanes that failed to attract carpoolers. NJ was supposed to pay back the feds if it redesignated the HOV lanes for all traffic, however the NJ congressional delegation managed to get this repayment requirement waived.

So NJ pols hoodwinked the feds into funding a 287 highway widening using the pretext of getting commuters out of their cars. Then, the pols used their muscle in DC to renege on the HOV lane promise, handing NJ an expanded highway with no strings attached.

 

[Leonard23]

I understand that for work. Not 10-11pm pulling out of a concert at the Meadowlands, or even a Sunday afternoon after a NFL game. I think this area is probably the most pro transit in the US, in the areas close to the Stadium there are many people with no car. Most people still consider it foolhardy to drive into Manhattan, and I think increasingly you have that in Hudson County and the closer in parts of BK and Queens. I get in smaller cities it's different, and both SF and DC have some of the biggest shift to remote work. Transit here isn't on Europe level, but it's probably the best you will get in the US. I only keep a car because my family lives in a public transit desert, and the transit to places I like to go on weekends, like the shore or RU, is obnoxious. But someone who is more interested in just getting to Manhattan, the area airports and stadiums, can do it easily. I have a friend who commutes from Hoboken to J&J in NB on NJT too, during the week it's definitely very feasible.

The issue remains in my view that many suburban areas in NJ are poorly served. To use an example of where I grew up in Monmouth County, the closest NJT station was about 20 minutes away and it definitely would be easiest to drive to the Meadowlands. The bus was maybe a mile or two, and that would at least get you to the PABT, which is probably better than a lot of the state. But to get to smaller urban areas, or places where parking would be obnoxious like the airport or beach, you're SOL.

I actually took the BART from SF to the Raiders stadium when I was there. That article was pretty sad. Going backwards on PT is something I think most cities regret.

Public transit here needs improvements to be much more reliable and add direct routes. NJT and PATH are constantly delayed. And NJT routes, like RVL, require switching trains 1 or more times to get to NYC, so it takes longer. Crazy in 2026 that every NJT route doesn't have all direct trains to NYC. I'm not worried about safety issues.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Public transit here needs improvements to be much more reliable and add direct routes. NJT and PATH are constantly delayed. And NJT routes, like RVL, require switching trains 1 or more times to get to NYC, so it takes longer. Crazy in 2026 that every NJT route doesn't have all direct trains to NYC. I'm not worried about safety issues.

No doubt. And the irony is we're still probably the best served region by PT in the whole country....

 

[Retired711]

If we can go back to the original topic . . . the Chronicle of Higher Education reports (behind a pay wall) that the New School, located in the Greenwich Village neighborhood of Manhattan, is about to cut faculty and staff by 15% by June 1. (The New York Times has reported the same. The school has been running annual deficits of $30 million despite very high tuition, and the sharp drop in international students particularly hurt this year. The cuts will be focused on the liberal arts and social sciences. The Parsons School of Design, which is part of the New School, will not be affected much because it generates a lot of revenue. Because of its real estate holdings and endowment, the school is unlikely to close any time soon, but it certainly needs to get its fiscal house in order. Here is the Times' article for those who can access it.https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/19/nyregion/new-school-nyc-cuts.html

 

[Leonard23]

https://archive.ph/dZ7Kt

Temple has lost average of $200 million annually as enrollment slides, and retention rates are a major issue, internal report says

 

[NotInRHouse]

Hampshire College in MA announced they will be closing as well.

 

[NotInRHouse]

https://archive.ph/dZ7Kt

Temple has lost average of $200 million annually as enrollment slides, and retention rates are a major issue, internal report says

Maybe I missed it but have we seen this type of a problem at other large public Us before?

There seems to be a real issue in PA with small public schools closing, large ones like Cult and Temple taking every admit and their mother, etc.

Is there a specific demographic timebomb there or something else? I get it rural areas nationally are in serious decline but I thought Philly and Pittsburgh areas are doing OK. Are they seeing especially high numbers of college avoidance?

Meanwhile here in NJ we are doing well, and I do know NJ is top 10 for population gain and the fact that it's ambitious NYers and and immigrants coming here probably helps a lot. They want their kids going to college and don't walk in with anti-RU bias. The Netflix influx will probably help too.

 

[bigmatt718]

https://archive.ph/dZ7Kt

Temple has lost average of $200 million annually as enrollment slides, and retention rates are a major issue, internal report says

Temple will always have one hand tied behind their back because they are located in a very rough part of Philly. Leave campus in any direction and you are in a very dangerous part of North Philly. My mom flat out refused to allow me to go there when I was touring colleges back in the early 2000s. My top 4 was Temple, PSU, UDel, and Rutgers-NB. I had zero interest in going to RU-Camden or Rowan as a South Jersey kid. PSU was too middle of nowhere for me, Temple I wasn't allowed to go to for above reasons, loved UDel but got more in financial aid to stay in state at RU-NB so I went to RU-NB.

 

[Fat Koko]

Temple will always have one hand tied behind their back because they are located in a very rough part of Philly. Leave campus in any direction and you are in a very dangerous part of North Philly. My mom flat out refused to allow me to go there when I was touring colleges back in the early 2000s. My top 4 was Temple, PSU, UDel, and Rutgers-NB. I had zero interest in going to RU-Camden or Rowan as a South Jersey kid. PSU was too middle of nowhere for me, Temple I wasn't allowed to go to for above reasons, loved UDel but got more in financial aid to stay in state at RU-NB so I went to RU-NB.

Rutgers Camden is facing similar enrollment pressures. Overall enrollment down 13% since 2021. Undergrad even worse at -21%.

The financial part of Tate's job description has three parts - fix Camden enrollment, fix New Brunswick athletics budget, and respond to broad goods and services inflation.

I went to a gymnastics meet at Liacouras Center at Temple. Never bringing the family there again.

Edit - Saw this article. Tate program for Rutgers-Camden so Pennsylvania students pay in-state tuition.

 

[Anon1754923206]

I went to a gymnastics meet at Liacouras Center at Temple. Never bringing the family there again.

Why??

 

[Fat Koko]

Why??

Aggressive panhandlers all over the place. Worse than I've seen around any urban arena and I've been to maybe a hundred of them around the world. Not fun to see my kids terrified when attending a gymnastics meet. Haven't experienced that around Prudential, MSG, Barclays.

 

[Anon1754923206]

Aggressive panhandlers all over the place. Worse than I've seen around any urban arena and I've been to maybe a hundred of them around the world. Not fun to see my kids terrified when attending a gymnastics meet. Haven't experienced that around Prudential, MSG, Barclays.

Gotcha…I’ve grown to despise urbanity and the filth is represents…

 

[RUTGERS95]

Rutgers Camden is facing similar enrollment pressures. Overall enrollment down 13% since 2021. Undergrad even worse at -21%.

The financial part of Tate's job description has three parts - fix Camden enrollment, fix New Brunswick athletics budget, and respond to broad goods and services inflation.

I went to a gymnastics meet at Liacouras Center at Temple. Never bringing the family there again.

Camden and Newark are interesting because they are satellite campuses. I don't know enough about some of the issues there but those type drops in enrollment speak to externalities that may not be structural with those campuses.

any ideas on the drop?

 

[RUTGERS95]

Some years ago I did a lot of research on the failed attempt to require employers to get their workers to come to work by other than single-occupancy vehicles. A lot of people prefer to pay for parking and endure traffic for the sake of the sense of control they get from having the freedom to leave home or work as they want and from being able to control their environment while driving. In addition, many people like to do errands on the way to or from work, and driving alone.

It proves to be darn hard to get people out of their cars no matter how much rapid transit is improved. You may have seen the article in yesterday's Times about the financial problems of the San Francisco area's BART rail system; the same is true of the equally high-tech Metrorail in the D.C. area. Both systems are at the edge of fiscal collapse. Chicago's and Philadelphia's systems have big fiscal problems as well.

we are an automobile culture and that's not changing any time soon imho
also, the cost of mass transit is not cheap and an impediment

 

[Fat Koko]

Camden and Newark are interesting because they are satellite campuses. I don't know enough about some of the issues there but those type drops in enrollment speak to externalities that may not be structural with those campuses.

any ideas on the drop?

South Jersey population growth slower than North Jersey, competition from Rowan, declining retention

 

[NotInRHouse]

If we are giving "Philadelphia area" students a discount at RU-C why are we not doing so with NY and CT's best and brightest in NB...LI and Westchester and NYC itself have plenty of people that would be very interested in that.

 

[bigmatt718]

If we are giving "Philadelphia area" students a discount at RU-C why are we not doing so with NY and CT's best and brightest in NB...LI and Westchester and NYC itself have plenty of people that would be very interested in that.

No doubt. We can and should target highly achieving HS students in NYC, Long Island, Westchester County and CT for RU-NB for that discounted tuition rate as RU-NB is a stronger school academically than any of the SUNYs or UConn. Rutgers-NB is the highest ranked academic public university in the Northeast. Make ourselves a destination school for those kids like PSU or Michigan.

 

[RUTGERS95]

If we are giving "Philadelphia area" students a discount at RU-C why are we not doing so with NY and CT's best and brightest in NB...LI and Westchester and NYC itself have plenty of people that would be very interested in that.

stop making sense, no place for that here!

full agreement and I'd include that to all of PA

 

[mdk02]

If we are giving "Philadelphia area" students a discount at RU-C why are we not doing so with NY and CT's best and brightest in NB...LI and Westchester and NYC itself have plenty of people that would be very interested in that.

There may be an unwritten rule about a cap on OOS students at NB. Camden probably has more room.

 

[Fat Koko]

If we are giving "Philadelphia area" students a discount at RU-C why are we not doing so with NY and CT's best and brightest in NB...LI and Westchester and NYC itself have plenty of people that would be very interested in that.

New Brunswick does not have the enrollment and retention problems of Camden. Between 2021 and 2025, New Brunswick's enrollment grew by 7% and Camden's enrollment fell by 11%. This is total enrollment, including undergrad and grad.

First year retention rates are consistently 93% at New Brunswick versus high 70s to low 80s at Camden. One of Tate's mandates is to fix the enrollment problem at Camden.

Find the stats here.

No doubt. We can and should target highly achieving HS students in NYC, Long Island, Westchester County and CT for RU-NB for that discounted tuition rate as RU-NB is a stronger school academically than any of the SUNYs or UConn. Rutgers-NB is the highest ranked academic public university in the Northeast. Make ourselves a destination school for those kids like PSU or Michigan.

Newsday is a newspaper covering Long Island, specifically Nassau and Suffolk County, NY. Long Island has similar student demographics to New Jersey.

Each spring, Newsday publishes where valedictorians and salutatorians from the ~150 Long Island high schools will attend college.

Last year: 28 to Stony Brook, zero to Rutgers. Plenty to other B1G schools and top state flagships (Northwestern, USC, Virginia, Florida).

Rutgers could get many of these students if Rutgers marketed itself right and offered in state tuition which is roughly $5,000 higher than SUNY tuition. Stony Brook is comparable to Rutgers New Brunswick on SAT and USNWR but Rutgers is better in every other way - closer to Manhattan too. I've ridden the LIRR thousands of times and many universities advertise on it but not Rutgers.

Offer in state tuition to New York City and Westchester students and Rutgers New Brunswick admission standards would skyrocket.

Half of the undergrads at Michigan and Indiana are from out of state, with the biggest share by far from Chicagoland. Rutgers could do the same by throwing open Rutgers New Brunswick to more students from New York City, Long Island, and Westchester.

A lot of those Indiana and Michigan fans celebrating their schools' reigns as national champions did not grow up following Indiana football and Michigan basketball. It grew on them when they enrolled and experienced the teams winning. Donations will follow.

 

[NotInRHouse]

There may be an unwritten rule about a cap on OOS students at NB. Camden probably has more room.

I actually think it is written AND that it applies to every state school, which is why I am baffled. My guess is that RU-C is in trouble and they realize the South Jersey machine would keep inquiries at bay (which would never happen with RU-NB).

 

[NotInRHouse]

New Brunswick does not have the enrollment and retention problems of Camden. Between 2021 and 2025, New Brunswick's enrollment grew by 7% and Camden's enrollment fell by 11%. This is total enrollment, including undergrad and grad.

First year retention rates are consistently 93% at New Brunswick versus high 70s to low 80s at Camden. One of Tate's mandates is to fix the enrollment problem at Camden.

Find the stats here.


Newsday is a newspaper covering Long Island, specifically Nassau and Suffolk County, NY. Long Island has similar student demographics to New Jersey.

Each spring, Newsday publishes where valedictorians and salutatorians from the ~150 Long Island high schools will attend college.

Last year: 28 to Stony Brook, zero to Rutgers. Plenty to other B1G schools and top state flagships (Northwestern, USC, Virginia, Florida).

Rutgers could get many of these students if Rutgers marketed itself right and offered in state tuition which is roughly $5,000 higher than SUNY tuition. Stony Brook is comparable to Rutgers New Brunswick on SAT and USNWR but Rutgers is better in every other way - closer to Manhattan too. I've ridden the LIRR thousands of times and many universities advertise on it but not Rutgers.

Offer in state tuition to New York City and Westchester students and Rutgers New Brunswick admission standards would skyrocket.

Half of the undergrads at Michigan and Indiana are from out of state, with the biggest share by far from Chicagoland. Rutgers could do the same by throwing open Rutgers New Brunswick to more students from New York City, Long Island, and Westchester.

A lot of those Indiana and Michigan fans celebrating their schools' reigns as national champions did not grow up following Indiana football and Michigan basketball. It grew on them when they enrolled and experienced the teams winning. Donations will follow.

Yes, in the current incredibly challenging environment, RU-NB is doing better than most, but like you're saying if we want to get to that Michigan echelon we need a little extra push.

It would be great if the state would line up with that, as they have with some other goals recently (eg RAC upgrades). If they're cutting Camden some slack how about a pilot program for LI students like you're saying?

 

[Fat Koko]

Yes, in the current incredibly challenging environment, RU-NB is doing better than most, but like you're saying if we want to get to that Michigan echelon we need a little extra push.

It would be great if the state would line up with that, as they have with some other goals recently (eg RAC upgrades). If they're cutting Camden some slack how about a pilot program for LI students like you're saying?

Rutgers Camden is a financial disaster. Tate is tasked with fixing it. So Rutgers is trying get Pennsylvania students who would otherwise go to Temple to go to Rutgers Camden instead by offering in-state tuition.

Rutgers New Brunswick and Rutgers Newark do not face the enrollment, retention, and financial challenges Rutgers Camden has. Rutgers won't offer incentives to New York students any time soon.

I did not know the state lined up with RAC upgrades, other than fake news reported by nj.com four years ago that I debunked meticulously. Where did you find this?

Rutgers 2026 budget

 

[NotInRHouse]

Rutgers Camden is a financial disaster. Tate is tasked with fixing it. So Rutgers is trying get Pennsylvania students who would otherwise go to Temple to go to Rutgers Camden instead by offering in-state tuition.

Rutgers New Brunswick and Rutgers Newark do not face the enrollment, retention, and financial challenges Rutgers Camden has. Rutgers won't offer incentives to New York students any time soon.

I did not know the state lined up with RAC upgrades, other than fake news reported by nj.com four years ago that I debunked meticulously. Where did you find this?
View attachment 1268568
Rutgers 2026 budget

What is fake about the state kicking in for the RAC?