Yeah, it’s truly a head scratcher, to do so much, yet yield so little.
Real Talk - Pope is Putting in the Work
- Thread starter philstat
- Start date
The point is his religion has zero to do with your last point, so it is uncalled for to bring it up. Do I agree with his religion? No. Do I think it has one thing to do with his struggles as a coach? No
Honestly, any thread that slams Coach Pope for being Mormon should be deleted... period. That has no meaning to the discussions.
A guy digging a ditch with a spoon works hard. Give me the guy who knows how to use the proper tools for the situation.
I'm not certain it can be dismissed. I think its dumb to single out Chandler as an example. First, because he is a strong mormon, its unrealistic to compare Chandler to a regular recruit. The kid gave up basketball for 2 years for his religion, so the fact he *came* to Kentucky in the first place is a strength to Mark Pope, going back to BYU is not suprising at all, especially if his wife had decided she belonged in Utah instead of Kentucky.
But that said, if Mark's views on life, fairness, financials, etc are deeply rooted in Mormon beliefs and those beliefs don't align with the NIL era of college basketball, then that is a problem. I'm not saying it is, I doubt it is to be honest, but if being Mormon is holding him back, then its fair game to discuss, IMO.
I have been around several Mormons in my life, and like others have said, I have found them to be great people, very grounded and generally positive upbeat people. At the same time, I've never been in a position where their value system determined the make or break of company they worked for.
But that said, if Mark's views on life, fairness, financials, etc are deeply rooted in Mormon beliefs and those beliefs don't align with the NIL era of college basketball, then that is a problem. I'm not saying it is, I doubt it is to be honest, but if being Mormon is holding him back, then its fair game to discuss, IMO.
I have been around several Mormons in my life, and like others have said, I have found them to be great people, very grounded and generally positive upbeat people. At the same time, I've never been in a position where their value system determined the make or break of company they worked for.
To reference the stepping for the good of himself. In this very moment if he did I would still have the same feeling about HIm.
He loves Kentucky!, no doubt about it.
Does he love Kentucky enough to that point that he would step down now?
Having served in numerous combatant environments with several, I call BS, they were to a person, absolute go-getters and the epitome of professionals. There’s a phenomenal degree of ignorance on here regarding this situation.
Totally agree
Pope can't even buy recruits. Guys sign elsewhere for less money
Yea I could work 18 hours a day as a stripper and that doesn’t mean anybody wants a lap dance from my fat ***.
That's why "giving him more time" is a fallacy. There is no amount of time he needs to reach to become a better coach. You're just giving him more time to destroy the program.
I can spend 18 hours a day trying to lift my car off the ground. And it won't budge. 18 hours, 18 minutes, 18 seconds, doesn't matter. He's not lazy. He's inept and incompetent
I can spend 18 hours a day trying to lift my car off the ground. And it won't budge. 18 hours, 18 minutes, 18 seconds, doesn't matter. He's not lazy. He's inept and incompetent
About all he is accomplishing is burning a hell of a lot of jet fuel with zero results
No, we didn't. That's patently false. There is absolutely nothing about his coaching resume that suggest he was "up and coming". No conference titles. No conference tourney titles. No NCAAT wins. That's not "up and coming". That's about as vanilla as, well...Mark Pope.
It doesn't matter what you (I'm assuming a middle aged white guy) think. It matters what today's college basketball player thinks. He's an "intellectual" that plays chess with a player or two for their bonding. Listen to the man talk for 5 mins, then listen to Will Stein talk for 5 mins. They aren't, or shouldn't be, trying to connect with you. It doesn't matter what you think of them. It matters what today's college basketball player thinks. And my guess is that person looks a whole lot different than you do.
Why do people believe what Mitch tells them. Everyone believes it’s CMP that is the problem . He contacts guys, talks with them, they love him. They come here and say they had an amazing time. Then they leave and sign somewhere else. While the recruit is with Pope having an amazing time, the agents are with JMI going over the NIL deal. I can’t see why I’m the only one who sees this. It isn’t CMP. It’s Barnharts FU JMI system. Agents want no part of it.
Well - its not PATENTLY false. He climbed the ladder to BYU. Its objectively true. If his resume wasn’t up to your (our) standards, that is subjective. That’s all semantics.
I still think MB bares the brunt of making an easy hire, not the best hire.
And that’s when Barnhart signed JMI during the offseason. Our roster was filled with CMP 4th choice at every position. Just like this year. Agents want nothing to do with JMI. It isn’t CMP in my opinion. But, everyone decides to go ahead and believe Mitch.
he might be putting in work... but he is getting nothing done....
I love Pope but I love Kentucky more. It's time for him to go before we dig ourselves in a 4-5 year deep recovery hole.
Well, I don't know how much inside info this guy has but he is pretty much saying Pope is NOT putting in the work. He says Pope only contacted 4 of the top 22 players in the portal...Freeman, Wright, and two that turned us down quick.
He contacted only 4 of the top 22 portal entries.
Doubt that took 18 hours a day.
Doubt that took 18 hours a day.
Mark Pope, under no definition, was an "up and coming coach". Which is what you stated. Thus, patently false. He wasn't on one "up and coming" watchlist. Nowhere. Not one.
Yeah...I'm not buying any of this BS. Mark Pope is an absolute fraud. From his persistently positive crap, to his "analytical" approach, to his "love of BBN", to him working hard. I don't buy any of it. He's just a fake.
The pitch goes something like this. ":If you go to UK you're going to be under a national spotlight which will be televised. Constantly in the conversation of you did or didn't live up to expectations. This could make or break your draft status. If you go to ST Johns the fanbase nor media have those expectations. You're competing in a much softer league that you can potentially dominate in play and media lines. Only helps you statistically. You're making the same money or even more. The question currently is WHY WOULD YOU go to Kentucky. The fanbase is rabid. The pressure is high. The league is competitive. Theres no upside playing for a unproven coach that at this point, can't get players into the league.
The program will recover but it's gonna have a couple dark years until there is more clarity on NIL. And it going to take someone like Jamal Mashburn who came here because he wanted to be known as a player who saved a program.
Fair. We had one. Possibly two. And our HC pulled a whiff. Let's HOPE he redeems himself.
My HOPE is about worn out.
There are avenues to find a good one, maybe great one.
I’d love to retain Hawthorne by night’s end. Best case for next year probably involves him blowing up and being a big surprise.
Man, I've got zero confidence he can "blow up". I think he could be a bench piece on a natty contender, but this feels like something not close to a natty contender roster. At least currently. It could certainly change quickly. I just HOPED I had some confidence that it will.
Yea, I don’t love it either. The good news is we have 3 solid starters- but we need two homeruns. I would be calling all the top available 3’s and 4’s and if I could nail down 2 of them in the time Stokes needed to decide I’d cut bait and get going.
The more painful route would be to miss Stokes, go Euro shopping, and hope a draftee who wants to withdraw falls into your lap.
There's an expression hard at work or hardly working. POPE is the latter.
The amount of rape apologists and pedophile supporters enabling a supposed Christian bombing civilians judging Mormons on this board is comical.
It can’t be JMI. Will Stein continues to land top tier talent. We have a dope of a head coach who doesn’t connect with anyone.
I'm apathetic toward Pope. He's probably a great dude who realized his dream, but it simply isn't working out. Pope probably has a heart of solid gold infused with good will and an irrational amount of optimism.
With that said though, hard to debate your post. The results are what they are and there's no sugarcoating it. If you're making millions in a results-driven coaching career while also being given the GDP of third world country, but can't get close to optimal results, people have a right to call for your ouster.
Pope will coach this year, in all likelihood miss the NCAA tournament, and move on voluntarily or involuntarily. Curious to see who the new AD prioritizes.
Football and basketball are 80% different when it comes to NIL. 120 players vs 12. Can you tell me what the #1 football recruit looks like? Nope. Everyone can tell you what Stokes looks like. NIL value for top recruits are miles ahead of football. Note: Steins class ranked exactly where Stoops classes ranked. He’s still 12th in the SEC. He does have some momentum though. Second to last in your conference isn’t killing it. How would you feel if our basketball class was second to last ?? We are trying to basketball recruit top in the country. Not 12th in our conference.