Simeon Wilcher to the Hall
- Thread starter joeyklings
- Start date
No the player was Matas Deniusas Euro big. Freshman of the year in his league. Had him locked up and then Sha didn’t want to pay up unfortunately, so he went elsewhere. Would’ve been a great pick up 6’9 and could shoot the 3. It was a done deal.
How did he have him locked up if he didn’t want to pay up?
if the kid had a number we weren’t willing to meet or couldn’t afford to meet, how do any other variables in today’s landscape even matter?
Agreed to number and signed. Then asked for more and Sha said no
Two things:
1. Can you really blame Sha or any coach / GM for that matter for saying no to someone who conducts a business transaction that way?
2. What are they signing that actually binds them to this contract? If it’s nothing, then I honestly don’t even care that they signed something. Just as I mentioned in another thread, there needs to be a buyout clause if you sign and then leave for another school. I thought the buyout would have to be a part of a creative two year contract. Apparently you need to have that built into the current one year deals now too.
Lol #2 is pure fantasy
#1 lets say you’re right..that’s fine..they all do this
So, isn’t this Shas profession? He makes a lot of money to be in this world..like this is the life he has chosen…so where do his morals get him or us or his stubbornness or taking everything so personal
Well we don’t know that his personality traits are the reason he so NO to the request for a higher amount after the contract was signed.
it could easily have been the fact that he had a specific number allocated in the budget for that roster spot and the new ask far exceeded what they could afford to build out the entire roster.
If the number was negligibly higher then yes in today’s world you have to put your ego aside and re-evaluate what needs to get done to make the deal stick.
But you cant be negotiating against yourself.
You offer $X, player says ok, I agree to that.
You go to formalize it and player now says I want $X +.
You say no.
Now, is that exactly how this went down? We will never know. Perhaps the player said, "I can agree to that, but have to check with my agent/the market before I sign"....that is somewhat different, in that, he did indicate that he was still assessing it.
But, if you say "Yes" to add to an offer the player already agreed to take...where does it end?
Ok but either way..doesn’t this seem to happen to us all the time? So, what is he going to do just let them walk each time? Will that help him or us?
There is a pattern: Samuel, JQ, LM, Clark, etc on and on and on
Its such a crappy way of doing business for guys to keep asking for more once agreeing to terms. I respect Sha’s approach but it does seem to be a square peg in a round hole in the NIL era.
Thing is, I don't know if every situation is simply "letting them walk". Perhaps the player in question gave a number they know Sha/the Hall won't pay because they don't want to be here. Perhaps even if we matched the player goes elsewhere. Or, perhaps, we just cannot pay what a particular kid demands, who otherwise would have returned if we met the number.
I'm sure many of these negotiations, like any negotiation, are filled with contradiction, he said/she said, and tactics driven solely to increase the ultimate number, levering one school against another, or one offer against another (real or fake). The feedback on our boards from the Clark negotiations were that we perhaps went in "lower" than market, he balked, we came back with a much higher number to meet his "ask", but he may have simply been using us to drive the price upwards because he never wanted to return in the first place, as odd as the seems based on last year. Who knows.
the answer is all of the above. Why come in lower than market on Clark? Seems like a silly mistake to me. I’d love to know what Deniusas wanted as a pay bump. The reality is more often than not we are probably used to garner better offers elsewhere.
This is the type of kid SHU needs to land, that we were close I actually take as a positive. But we need to land them consistently.
sha has had a season with complete misses that turned into the worst season ever. then he made complete nobodies into a unanimous COY season.
don't know what to think. i'll go with recency bias
It was not enough weeks ago. That was the point weeks ago and year over year. SHU never has any clue on the world it operates in.
It was enough to at least be competitive. We are never going to be a top of the market team. But that figure is no longer competitive and we need at least $10 to reach that level.
The number to be competitive can’t increase or decrease in the same offseason. If it’s $10 mil today, it was $10 mil two weeks ago. The only thing that can change is the amount we BELIEVED to be the correct number.
if we have $8, we need $10, if we have $10, we need $12, have $12, not enough need $15 and on and on----
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No it was not. It changed drastically when the NIL numbers increased far more than anticipated. Two weeks ago was not the timeframe I was referring to.
It’s one thing to lose out to the SEC schools, B1G who obviously have overflowing coffers, but when you see we are losing players to A-10 level teams it’s beyond concerning.
If we’re going to try to compete in this hyper inflation environment the Athletic Department and the University needs to rethink just about everything to free up more funding in the P&L to pay players. Yes, it’s a suboptimal situation but you eventually have to look at the schools you’re competing against for talent and realize that if you want to play you need to pay and find a way to get that NIL.Rev Share fund higher. Again, as alum/fans we can all try to reach in the pocket and give a few hundred or a few thousand more here and there but it’s not going to be enough. In the absence of having a Mike Repole type of donor or two, you’ve got to relook at your cost structure and free up more for the Men’s Basketball team. Or find a big Revenue source via Corporate sponsors or other means. What the hell is Under Armour doing for us? They need to pony up more than just their brand. If not, find a new apparel company that will.
If we’re going to try to compete in this hyper inflation environment the Athletic Department and the University needs to rethink just about everything to free up more funding in the P&L to pay players. Yes, it’s a suboptimal situation but you eventually have to look at the schools you’re competing against for talent and realize that if you want to play you need to pay and find a way to get that NIL.Rev Share fund higher. Again, as alum/fans we can all try to reach in the pocket and give a few hundred or a few thousand more here and there but it’s not going to be enough. In the absence of having a Mike Repole type of donor or two, you’ve got to relook at your cost structure and free up more for the Men’s Basketball team. Or find a big Revenue source via Corporate sponsors or other means. What the hell is Under Armour doing for us? They need to pony up more than just their brand. If not, find a new apparel company that will.
NIL numbers have nearly doubled each season. If someone in power at SHU thought $8 million was going to be enough for this offseason they should not be in that role. I am not sure $8 million would have fielded a competitive team if the Big East was strong last season.
Doesn’t the school think they fielded a competitive team last year with barely 6 million?
Why would they change
Over Macho Grande?if we have $8, we need $10, if we have $10, we need $12, have $12, not enough need $15 and on and on----
“Far more than anticipated” is the operative phrase. The market is the market. We didn’t anticipate the market correctly.
Again.
For the 4th year in a row.
That's all the money we have. There's not another nickel to spare. All this talk about what we need...I agree. But if it isn't there what do you expect?
I am as disappointed as anyone. But at least I am doing my part. Unfortunately not enough others are.
I am as disappointed as anyone. But at least I am doing my part. Unfortunately not enough others are.
Do you think the school is doing all it can too? With rev share and their piece of nil?
The school needs to be out front and say we need 15 million and go after it bigly. I remember telethons on TV back in the day would set goals that were much higher than the previous year and seemed impossible to attain. Guess what they attained it. How? By showing the numbers as they grew until the goal was reached. They were stretch goals that seemed impossible but that did not stop them from shooting for the moon and attaining it.
The people that run SHU NIL should run it like a telethon campaign. Contact every alum that played hoops or any sport first and foremost and go after them bigly to support the SHU hoops program. Contact all the grads and do the same and be out there that the money is for NIL.
No one has ever contacted me specifically for NIL money. None us know what the goal is and how much has been raised and that is not a well run program.
It does not have to be waiting for a millionaire to step up and give a ton.
The people that run SHU NIL should run it like a telethon campaign. Contact every alum that played hoops or any sport first and foremost and go after them bigly to support the SHU hoops program. Contact all the grads and do the same and be out there that the money is for NIL.
No one has ever contacted me specifically for NIL money. None us know what the goal is and how much has been raised and that is not a well run program.
It does not have to be waiting for a millionaire to step up and give a ton.
Why doesn't the school just open a Learing Center?
Has anyone checked our athletic administrators for a pulse?
Based on where we are finishing in the standings in just about every sport, it's a safe assumption there is none. Currently 2 innings away from dropping our 10th straight baseball game and 8th straight big east game
Unfortunate about the baseball team. I was fortunate enough to be able to play for a D-I "mid-major". The only BE school that recruited me in the slightest was Providence, and I was never a serious target. Their team folded several years later as a "Title IX" casualty. I would have passed out if I even received a recruiting letter from Seton Hall because of what I thought about the baseball program coupled with being a fan of the hoops team, and would have literally walked there even if I had a chance of being a preferred walk-on.
If we start from the premise that “doing your part” means “fulfilling your responsibility,” then my question is, who are the “others” that you are referring to? If you mean “Seton Hall basketball fans,” then my very respectful response is, there’s not one Pirates fan who has a “responsibility” to donate to an NIL fund. If a Pirates fan wants to do it, then God bless. But the problem is, the people running Seton Hall athletics are seemingly counting on that precise mindset - that fans have a “responsibility” to donate - to make up for their shortcomings.
Come on. We have more money than last year. We should have been able to retain at least 3 of our key potential returnees. No way what is going on is purely a money issue.
Also, the money is there for the school. It may choose not to devote resources and at the end of the day will reap the benefit or detriment of that decision. However, Seton Hall without a competitive Big Easf program will be a death knell in my opinion.
Every year we are disappointed by our once very well respected baseball team and year after year the team is pitiful. The leadership of the team must be replaced but we never see it. The time is now! A new broom sweeps clean!
No, it wasn't. $10MM was the obvious threshold for a chance at competitiveness. I posted as much. It was very simple to see, and I barely pay any attention these days.