Amazon spending more in Mississippi

[thatsbaseball]

My question . Don't want to be "chicken little" but will these centers put a significant strain on our power grid someday ? If they will it might be the "nudge" needed for me to buy a whole house generator .

Amazon Continues to Invest Billions in Mississippi

kingfish1935.blogspot.com

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Well, you gotta put them somewhere, and TateR is bound and determined that he wants them in MS. He even goes on social and shames you if you don't want them, claiming you are scared they will take your job.

My understanding of the things is that there will be few jobs created outside the construction, but the residual tax revenue is big, which will get spent on schools and so forth. So I doubt this really results in any true growth.

 

[Darryl Steight]

My question . Don't want to be "chicken little" but will these centers put a significant strain on our power grid someday ? If they will it might be the "nudge" needed for me to buy a whole house generator .

Amazon Continues to Invest Billions in Mississippi

kingfish1935.blogspot.com

1. Yes, they will - or would - put a strain on the power grid if those facilities were just added to the current grid with no additional supply, but of course that's not the case. The utility companies, Entergy and MS Power at least, are always and now more rapidly trying to expand what they can supply. It's very expensive and time consuming, so there may be some times where it's difficult to keep up. But they are working on it.

2. Most (or at least a large portion) of the new tech/industrial power-sucking users, like data centers, are working on 'off-grid' solutions for the future. So they are trying to save cost and be outage-proof by building their own sources of power. There are many ways to do that, with varying success and reliabilty so far. But it's a ways off for most of them, because that is an even more costly and time-consuming step - and those users have to pay for it themselves without being a public utility who can raise rates, etc. Same thing can be said for water supply too - many of the users are working on ways to keep their water usage in a self-contained internal cycle as much as possible in the future.

 

[Darryl Steight]

Well, you gotta put them somewhere, and TateR is bound and determined that he wants them in MS. He even goes on social and shames you if you don't want them, claiming you are scared they will take your job.

My understanding of the things is that there will be few jobs created outside the construction, but the residual tax revenue is big, which will get spent on schools and so forth. So I doubt this really results in any true growth.

The growth theory is long term - so if millions and millions of dollars are now coming in and can be spent on making great school systems and infrastructure (roads, utilities, bridges, police, local amenities etc.) - more companies and people will move to your area long term, which is true growth.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The growth theory is long term - so if millions and millions of dollars are now coming in and can be spent on making great school systems and infrastructure (roads, utilities, bridges, police, local amenities etc.) - more companies and people will move to your area long term, which is true growth.

I get all that, I've heard it before. But most of those schools are already good and even if you pour money into a bad school, it's not going to become good unless you remove the bad elements. Just facts.

I would rather have the jobs. But.....if this is the best we can get, so be it. I don't see the real growth strategy but money is money.

Since we have another bash Jackson thread going on......seems like a real strategy could have been to pile all these things in one place where there's a bunch of abandoned shlt....like, uh, Jack-hole, and then that could pump money there to fix the infrastructure.

 

[johnson86-1]

My question . Don't want to be "chicken little" but will these centers put a significant strain on our power grid someday ? If they will it might be the "nudge" needed for me to buy a whole house generator .

Amazon Continues to Invest Billions in Mississippi

kingfish1935.blogspot.com

If they keep getting located here there will be NGCC plants put in to power them somewhere nearby to avoid disruptions. We are close enough to gas hubs that pipeline capacity shouldn't be an issue either. Not super informed on that, but that's my guess. Just not capacity available otherwise and dI would think they'd rather deal with gas pipeline costs instead of transmission lines because they can lock in the cost of that gas pipeline capacity a lot more easily than they can the transmission costs, and they're less susceptible to disruption from weather events.

 

[Shmuley]

My question . Don't want to be "chicken little" but will these centers put a significant strain on our power grid someday ? If they will it might be the "nudge" needed for me to buy a whole house generator .

Amazon Continues to Invest Billions in Mississippi

kingfish1935.blogspot.com

Keep in mind that every one of these data center projects, at least the ones that will be energized via the electric power grid, begin with a very early agreement between the developer and the electric utility holding the certificate. Those agreements provide for a cost to extend power to the project location and an associated rate that will be paid by the end user that encompasses all of the costs associated with getting power to the site and providing power to the site. Theoretically, the rate charged to the data center end user provides for cost recovery to the utility so that there is little to no impact on existing rate payers. The broader message that I have been hearing from electric utilities is that data centers, in particular, will be required to pay for the impacts they cause to grid stability or the impact they cause to rate structures so that existing customers see no real impact. What gets lost on most, however, is that there has always been electric rate uncertainty due to factors that have nothing to do with the presence or absence of data centers. Hell, ask Entergy customers what happens to electricity bills when there are shocks in the oil markets or natural gas markets.

 

[johnson86-1]

I get all that, I've heard it before. But most of those schools are already good and even if you pour money into a bad school, it's not going to become good unless you remove the bad elements. Just facts.

I would rather have the jobs. But.....if this is the best we can get, so be it. I don't see the real growth strategy but money is money.

They are not the best for jobs, but if we get a cluster, there will be jobs serving them. And the money itself creates jobs. WIth the way these are coming in, there is going to be enough money made on these long term projects that it will support more jobs going forward just because there will be more people in the community with money to spend.

 

[GloryDawg]

Buy silver.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Well, you gotta put them somewhere, and TateR is bound and determined that he wants them in MS. He even goes on social and shames you if you don't want them, claiming you are scared they will take your job.

My understanding of the things is that there will be few jobs created outside the construction, but the residual tax revenue is big, which will get spent on schools and so forth. So I doubt this really results in any true growth.

The few jobs arguement is somewhat misleading. In addition to permanent jobs, there’ll be many contractors - electrical, HVAC, janitorial, etc., working in those centers daily. That’s just the interior. occasionally, you’ll also have roofing contractors, asphalt contractors, fencing contractors, etc.

 

[Duke Humphrey]

The more capital in Mississippi the better. It is truly going to be transformational for places like Madison County, Lauderdale County and the like.

Take Lauderdale County Schools for example, its ranked as an "A" district and one of the top districts in the state. The capital they are about to come into will enhance their facilities and make them even stronger. Same with Madison County. Both of which have struggled to keep up with infrastructure demands.

 

[Darryl Steight]

I get all that, I've heard it before. But most of those schools are already good and even if you pour money into a bad school, it's not going to become good unless you remove the bad elements. Just facts.

I would rather have the jobs. But.....if this is the best we can get, so be it. I don't see the real growth strategy but money is money.

Since we have another bash Jackson thread going on......seems like a real strategy could have been to pile all these things in one place where there's a bunch of abandoned shlt....like, uh, Jack-hole, and then that could pump money there to fix the infrastructure.

I agree with your Jackson comment - would love to see money flowing in to help JPS, water system, storm sewer system, sanitary sewer system, potholes, police, etc.

But to your 'most of the schools are already good' statement. I'm not sure where you're talking about, but I was speaking of the entire state. For example, if a data center got built in Yazoo County - it would be good for the local municipalities. Their schools are definitely not already good. That goes for a lot of the state.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

You can buy a whole home generator on Amazon.

 

[PBRME]

My question . Don't want to be "chicken little" but will these centers put a significant strain on our power grid someday ? If they will it might be the "nudge" needed for me to buy a whole house generator .

Amazon Continues to Invest Billions in Mississippi

kingfish1935.blogspot.com

Save a lot of money and buy a 3 fuel generator. Hire an electrician, or do it yourself, to install a circuit breaker kill switch that reroutes power from your generator. If you’re using natural gas you’ll need a line run to where your generator will be. If you want a permanent structure to house the generator there’s all kinds of diy plans on YouTube. All in should be under 2500.

 

[DawgNsuds]

I skimmed many of the responses, but I had believed that Amazon would be installing their own power generators and actually at times would be contributing back to the grid? of course there is the possibility that this thinking was inspired by an evening of whiskey.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I agree with your Jackson comment - would love to see money flowing in to help JPS, water system, storm sewer system, sanitary sewer system, potholes, police, etc.

But to your 'most of the schools are already good' statement. I'm not sure where you're talking about, but I was speaking of the entire state. For example, if a data center got built in Yazoo County - it would be good for the local municipalities. Their schools are definitely not already good. That goes for a lot of the state.

Really more about Madison where the existing ones are. And apparently Meridian schools are rated well too.

And the Jackson politicians would probably 17 all the money up anyway. Would all build mansions in the Bahamas or something.

 

[Badon]

Keep in mind that every one of these data center projects, at least the ones that will be energized via the electric power grid, begin with a very early agreement between the developer and the electric utility holding the certificate. Those agreements provide for a cost to extend power to the project location and an associated rate that will be paid by the end user that encompasses all of the costs associated with getting power to the site and providing power to the site. Theoretically, the rate charged to the data center end user provides for cost recovery to the utility so that there is little to no impact on existing rate payers. The broader message that I have been hearing from electric utilities is that data centers, in particular, will be required to pay for the impacts they cause to grid stability or the impact they cause to rate structures so that existing customers see no real impact. What gets lost on most, however, is that there has always been electric rate uncertainty due to factors that have nothing to do with the presence or absence of data centers. Hell, ask Entergy customers what happens to electricity bills when there are shocks in the oil markets or natural gas markets.

This is a good explanation. These projects are phased over years, as are the required utility upgrades. The construction is over time, as is the electric load buildup. The MPSC and its electric utilities are designing these projects to have downward pressure on rates for all. Other area may have done things differently.

 

[TaleofTwoDogs]

Fun Statistical Facts: One can never use or compare Madison county's per capita income to any other county in Mississippi. All other Mississippi counties pale in comparison. The 2024 per capita personal income in Madison is higher than the average per capita in all both two states in the United States at over $90K. Connecticut and Massachusetts are the two states that have higher rates. Of course, DC has the highest per capita at over $103K. Just sayin...

 

[aTotal360]

The strain on power grids will be everywhere sooner or later. The question is, when will your grid be impacted?

 

[patdog]

The strain on power grids will be everywhere sooner or later. The question is, when will your grid be impacted?

Between these things, electric vehicles, and an extreme reluctance to build new power plants or make needed improvements to the grid infrastructure, there's a time bomb ticking and just waiting till it's time to explode.

 

[TheBannerM]

Mississippi is the perfect place for a few more of these bad boys:

 

[thatsbaseball]

Between these things, electric vehicles, and an extreme reluctance to build new power plants or make needed improvements to the grid infrastructure, there's a time bomb ticking and just waiting till it's time to explode.

LOL I'm gonna take that as a thumbs up on buying a generator .

 

[grinningmule]

We install treadmill generators in every town in the state and require all EBT recipients to walk 20 hrs per month to add juice to the grid. The super fat Walmart cart riders can crank a arm dynamometer. Win win.

 

[mstateglfr]

Fun Statistical Facts: One can never use or compare Madison county's per capita income to any other county in Mississippi. All other Mississippi counties pale in comparison. The 2024 per capita personal income in Madison is higher than the average per capita in all both two states in the United States at over $90K. Connecticut and Massachusetts are the two states that have higher rates. Of course, DC has the highest per capita at over $103K. Just sayin...

You make a good point about not really being able to compare Madison County's per capita income to other Mississippi Counties.

I am not sure if the factoid in red has the impact you intend it to have. THIS shows Madison County is 333rd in the country in 2024 Median Household Income(I know that isnt the same as PCPI). And THIS shows Madison County is 153rd in the country in 2024 PCPI.
Comparing Madison County's PCPI to state PCPI makes no sense and doesnt actually tell a useful story.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

The strain on power grids will be everywhere sooner or later. The question is, when will your grid be impacted?

Between these things, electric vehicles, and an extreme reluctance to build new power plants or make needed improvements to the grid infrastructure, there's a time bomb ticking and just waiting till it's time to explode.

Yep our national power grid is woefully behind and not adequate to keep up with the future demand.

 

[patdog]

Yep our national power grid is woefully behind and not adequate to keep up with the future demand.

It's not even adequate to keep up with current demand. Remember all the outages in Texas & California a couple of years ago. Those are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Shmuley]

Mississippi is the perfect place for a few more of these bad boys:

View attachment 1250517

Mississippi is the perfect place for placement of modernized versions of these things, which are about 1/10 of that size. What is not clear to me is what the modernized versions (even though MUCH smaller) will cost to construct and bring on line.

 

[johnson86-1]

Really more about Madison where the existing ones are. And apparently Meridian schools are rated well too.

And the Jackson politicians would probably 17 all the money up anyway. Would all build mansions in the Bahamas or something.

You're giving them too much credit. Jackson wouldn't be where it is now if it's politicians had the vision to use graft for something that practical and life enhancing.

 

[dawgman42]

Mississippi is the perfect place for a few more of these bad boys:

View attachment 1250517

Ah, where I have spent many, many hours of my life.

 

[johnson86-1]

This is a good explanation. These projects are phased over years, as are the required utility upgrades. The construction is over time, as is the electric load buildup. The MPSC and its electric utilities are designing these projects to have downward pressure on rates for all. Other area may have done things differently.

I believe this statement. But I also believe that the utilities can manipulate the ratepayer impact measure tests with non-crazy looking assumptions such that they can make those results say more or less waht they want within reason, and it's hard for the MPSC or its staff to pick it apart. If they are all on the same page politically, definitely the public can't tell if what they are saying matches reality and by the time we know for sure, there will be things they can point to like fuel prices, or natural disasters or whatever that make it hard to identify costs from new demand.

I'd be much more worried about the MPSC accepting some optimistic assumptions if these were going to employ thousands of people in high wage jobs. Then you'd be seeing a lot of political pressure from all directions to land the project one way or another. I'm not sure there is the same pressure for these types of projects.

 

[Xenomorph]

Anybody who thinks MS is the only place these are being built should head over to Louisiana. I was on the Meta site last week in Rayville. 1 mile wide and 3.5 miles long. Biggest job site I’ve ever been on. Will be the world’s largest data center. …and Google has one planned in the same area.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

My question . Don't want to be "chicken little" but will these centers put a significant strain on our power grid someday ? If they will it might be the "nudge" needed for me to buy a whole house generator .

Amazon Continues to Invest Billions in Mississippi

kingfish1935.blogspot.com

We are selling things we don’t know we are selling…

 

[olblue]

1. Yes, they will - or would - put a strain on the power grid if those facilities were just added to the current grid with no additional supply, but of course that's not the case. The utility companies, Entergy and MS Power at least, are always and now more rapidly trying to expand what they can supply. It's very expensive and time consuming, so there may be some times where it's difficult to keep up. But they are working on it.

2. Most (or at least a large portion) of the new tech/industrial power-sucking users, like data centers, are working on 'off-grid' solutions for the future. So they are trying to save cost and be outage-proof by building their own sources of power. There are many ways to do that, with varying success and reliabilty so far. But it's a ways off for most of them, because that is an even more costly and time-consuming step - and those users have to pay for it themselves without being a public utility who can raise rates, etc. Same thing can be said for water supply too - many of the users are working on ways to keep their water usage in a self-contained internal cycle as much as possible in the future.

Keep in mind that every one of these data center projects, at least the ones that will be energized via the electric power grid, begin with a very early agreement between the developer and the electric utility holding the certificate. Those agreements provide for a cost to extend power to the project location and an associated rate that will be paid by the end user that encompasses all of the costs associated with getting power to the site and providing power to the site. Theoretically, the rate charged to the data center end user provides for cost recovery to the utility so that there is little to no impact on existing rate payers. The broader message that I have been hearing from electric utilities is that data centers, in particular, will be required to pay for the impacts they cause to grid stability or the impact they cause to rate structures so that existing customers see no real impact. What gets lost on most, however, is that there has always been electric rate uncertainty due to factors that have nothing to do with the presence or absence of data centers. Hell, ask Entergy customers what happens to electricity bills when there are shocks in the oil markets or natural gas markets.

Data centers are also - in an indirect way - funding the necessary improvements to gas systems that are needed to fuel the growth on the power side.

 

[olblue]

Between these things, electric vehicles, and an extreme reluctance to build new power plants or make needed improvements to the grid infrastructure, there's a time bomb ticking and just waiting till it's time to explode.

There is not a reluctance to build power plants. Quite the opposite. There is a 5-7 year queue in the gas turbine market. Entergy alone is building new generation in Greenville, Vicksburg and Ridgeland by the end of the decade. Not to mention TVA’s plans in Mississippi and aXI in Southaven.

 

[CoastRat.sixpack]

Well, you gotta put them somewhere, and TateR is bound and determined that he wants them in MS. He even goes on social and shames you if you don't want them, claiming you are scared they will take your job.

My understanding of the things is that there will be few jobs created outside the construction, but the residual tax revenue is big, which will get spent on schools and so forth. So I doubt this really results in any true growth.

Yeah, the legislature is going to spend extra revenue on education You should go on tour.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Yeah, the legislature is going to spend extra revenue on education You should go on tour.

We actually have a county alderman that posted here on it. The tax stays in the county, dipshlt.

 

[patdog]

There is not a reluctance to build power plants. Quite the opposite. There is a 5-7 year queue in the gas turbine market. Entergy alone is building new generation in Greenville, Vicksburg and Ridgeland by the end of the decade. Not to mention TVA’s plans in Mississippi and aXI in Southaven.

Not so much here as in places that need it even more like California.

 

[CoastRat.sixpack]

We actually have a county alderman that posted here on it. The tax stays in the county, dipshlt.

Ok, dipsh1t. Actually sales and use taxes, corporate income taxes on profits from the data center, and franchise taxes have been abated for 10 years as part of the deal from the state. (abated means waived; and if you don't know what waived means, waived means we aren't getting any taxes for 10 years). The state never abates taxes on these development deals unless the local governmental entities do the same, and the state will strong arm them into it if they don't by withholding other grants, etc. So, without knowing for sure, I can confidently say that even the county will be waiving all (or most) of its ad valorem taxes (which is all they would get) for 10 years as well. After 10 years, these data centers will probably be obsolete, and they will abandon it and move on to a new deal or new state and abate their taxes on the next generation of data storage. That's your civics, economics, and basic logic lesson for the day. Stop by anytime.

 

[Darryl Steight]

Ok, dipsh1t. Actually sales and use taxes, corporate income taxes on profits from the data center, and franchise taxes have been abated for 10 years as part of the deal from the state. (abated means waived; and if you don't know what waived means, waived means we aren't getting any taxes for 10 years). The state never abates taxes on these development deals unless the local governmental entities do the same, and the state will strong arm them into it if they don't by withholding other grants, etc. So, without knowing for sure, I can confidently say that even the county will be waiving all (or most) of its ad valorem taxes (which is all they would get) for 10 years as well. After 10 years, these data centers will probably be obsolete, and they will abandon it and move on to a new deal or new state and abate their taxes on the next generation of data storage. That's your civics, economics, and basic logic lesson for the day. Stop by anytime.

Some of that is correct, but it doesn't necessarily have to do with education. The counties rarely give up the school's portion of taxes. In Madison County, for example, something like 35-40% of ad valorem taxes go towards education. I haven't looked into this deal specifically and I imagine they have found ways to give Amazon an abatement or created some bonding or something to give them an economic inducement, but I doubt they're giving away the school system's portion entirely or easily.

 

[Awwhellnaw]

We install treadmill generators in every town in the state and require all EBT recipients to walk 20 hrs per month to add juice to the grid. The super fat Walmart cart riders can crank an ou arm dynamometer. Win win.

You sir are an insensitive a$$hole and a FASCIST!* (only kidding, love the idea)