I have one in my truck. if you do much in memphis it would be wise to get one. it is absolutely horrible on the memphis roadways.
OT: Bike vs Car, who is at fault?
- Thread starter HotMop
- Start date
What are you talking about now?
The post you responded to provided commentary on how both a vehicle driver and a cyclist can potentially be a 'victim' in a collision.
It isn't always one that is the victim.
Legally will vary by state.
outside of that, even though I don’t like most bikers, I’d say the car is mostly at fault but it’d depend on speed of bike and whether they’re allowed to be on sidewalk. If it’s not allowed on the sidewalk but it’s going remotely close to the speed of a fast runner, the car looked like it would’ve hit a pedestrian as well
outside of that, even though I don’t like most bikers, I’d say the car is mostly at fault but it’d depend on speed of bike and whether they’re allowed to be on sidewalk. If it’s not allowed on the sidewalk but it’s going remotely close to the speed of a fast runner, the car looked like it would’ve hit a pedestrian as well
You accused me of being/doing something that is not supported by my comment you quoted.
If you aren't able to explain your thought, don't post it to a website created for conversation.
I have one on all of my vehicles living in a tourist area. Save my daughter when another local side swiped and hit and run her.
Background: my family has used cargo e-bikes for over 7k miles in Atlanta in the last 3.5 years hauling our kids to everything imaginable that kids do. My 2nd grader bikes solo to school with a group of friends, and I do lots of advocacy work on creating safer streets for kids to use independently. I am uniquely aware of the dangers posed by cars to cyclists because I'm mainly focused on how a kid interacts with their road/environment.
To answer the question in the title of who is at fault, we need to actually look at the place this happened. Using the lat/long on the dash cam, I found the spot in PCB where the crash occurred (link). The biggest thing I noticed about the location of the crash is that there is a stop sign the car exiting the parking lot completely ignored. There are the remnants of a stop bar on the pavement, but it is pretty faded. If you scroll back in time on the street view, you can see the paint fading over the last 6 years.
Secondly, cyclists are legally allowed to ride on sidewalks in Florida. They are not required to walk across intersections, but "has all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances" according to FL statute 316.2065.9. The cyclist probably could have slowed down and been more cautious , but it's pretty hard to tell speed and sightlines with the video angle we have. Considering they got all the way in front of the car before any contact was made, it could be argued that they thought the car was going to stop when they checked the intersection.
So yes, I think the vast majority of the blame falls on the car for failing to stop at the stop sign/behind the (faded) stop bar. I see this all the time when biking/walking- cars stop in the middle of the crosswalk because stopping before it to make sure it is clear and then proceeding is too much of a delay for them.
And for those saying "bikes shouldn't be on the sidewalk," would you ride on a 6 lane road with a speed limit of 45MPH? Even if you don't want to bike, it should be obvious that this person is clearly making the safer choice on the sidewalk compared to that road.
I can give all kinds of information related to this topic and many others referenced here, but this should be enough to hopefully help people see a different perspective.
The bushes and the sign blocked the drivers view down the sidewalk. Probably blocked the cyclists view also. I don't think you have to stop at a crosswalk if the pedestrian is NOT in the crosswalk and the bike was not in it when the car committed to going ahead. The cyclist definitely saw the car before the driver saw the bike since the cyclist swerved and got in front of the car.
The cyclist is an idiot. Even if the law favors the pedestrian, I always make sure the car sees me and stops before I cross because I'm not here to make my wife and family rich due to my death.
The cyclist is an idiot. Even if the law favors the pedestrian, I always make sure the car sees me and stops before I cross because I'm not here to make my wife and family rich due to my death.
Last edited:
Biker's fault for being a biker. Pick another hobby that doesn't inconvenience everyone on the road. Seriously, stop being a jackass and pick another hobby. Or get a Peloton.
The driver of the car should have gotten out, pointed his finger at the cyclist, and laughed uncontrollably.
So in my opinion it is the cars fault for not stopping at the stop sign though it's possible they stopped before the video starts, impossible to say as this is the cars view and where the stop bar is located. Car has zero visibility to any pedestrians or cyclists.
The biker in my opinion has no self preservation mode or is just a plain dubmass. He just zips out into the intersection without even pausing. Here's his view, what kind of idiot decides this is a great place to just venture out into. He's also riding against the flow of traffic when there's another sidewalk on the other side of the street.
The biker in my opinion has no self preservation mode or is just a plain dubmass. He just zips out into the intersection without even pausing. Here's his view, what kind of idiot decides this is a great place to just venture out into. He's also riding against the flow of traffic when there's another sidewalk on the other side of the street.
Attachments
-
1775657130833.png
Agree on both points. Stop sign and crosswalk, you hit anything in that crosswalk it's 100% your fault. And yes, the cyclist is a dubmass to even be on a road like that in the first place and to not be watching out for dubmass drivers if he is on that road.
If you have commercial vehicles, and you don't have dash cams, you are committing malpractice. I defend car wrecks for a living, and the Jackson, MS (Hinds County) of today makes Jefferson Davis County of the 2000's look tame and conservative. I would literally not allow a single commercial vehicle to pass through, or even cut the corner of Hinds County to get somewhere. Desoto County's not bad though!
Insurance has forced my client with a fleet of vehicles into the cameras and tracking devices. At first just front facing, but now I think both front and driver facing. If there's a hard braking incident, they get real time alerts and can replay what happened. All that, along with speeding goes to the insurance company (they have found several cases where the software doesn't have the right speed limit so they do have to correct some of them). If you have commercial vehicles and haven't already been forced to do this, it won't be long before you will be. It's a pain in the arse, but overall a good thing. And of course it protects you from bullsh*t claims for a wreck that wasn't your guy's fault.
One of those groups doesn’t have the ability to keep up with traffic and doesn’t have a steel cage around them.
You guys would love the bike lane guy in NYC who is always chirping at people in the bike lane. Mostly he’s right but he’s also a prick.
I regularly see people on 463 in Madison; sometimes during the afternoon commute time. I understand that the laws support that, but given that about 90% of the driving population seems to be unable to stay off their phone and pay attention, I don't think it is a great idea.
You need to make eye contact with a driver before crossing out in front of them. In this case the driver is looking to his left to try and merge into traffic. This spot is near my house and traffic here is HORRIBLE, when I hit that Sonic I never take that exit as I prefer to take the one further down the road as it's not right at the turn lane. Plus it's not covered up with all them damn bushes.
From looking at these pictures I have a hard time blaming the driver because you can't what's coming down that sidewalk. Ordinarily it wouldn't be a big deal with pedestrians but a bike moving way faster is a big problem especially when the biker just barrels out there without checking up. The other thing to consider is since the stop sign appears to be on private property is if it is even enforceable.
How is this a serious response to my pointing out that all sorts of vehicles are constantly breaking traffic laws?
You quoted my post and them responded with an observation that is unrelated to my point.
- One having a cage around it has nothing to do with the reality that all sorts of vehicles constantly break traffic laws.
- One not always moving at the speed limit or traffic speed has nothing to do with the reality that all sorts of vehicles constantly break traffic laws.
If you dislike the reality that bicycles are legally allowed to be on roads, change the law.
Best of luck.
They aren’t technically commercial vehicles because they are farm tagged trucks but you’re not wrong though.
You are a victim
let’s say I ride my bike down the correct path but I never pay attention and I keep getting hit. I may not be at fault but I certainly am a DA and should make better decisions.
Last edited:
I dont think you understand what the word 'victim' means.
And I agree that if someone continually gets hit because they arent paying attention, they are dumb as balls, even if the other parties are always legally at fault.
So he was coming toward the camera? I couldn't tell on my laptop. That certainly changes things.
OK, I didn't notice that. Assumed he was traveling away from the camera. That changes what I typed.
We have a somewhat recently expanded road here (opened in 2021 I think) and they included a "multi-use path" that's paved with asphalt and about 15 feet wide. That keeps bikes out of the traffic flow for the most part, except at intersections They still have a "share the road" sign on the main road but I've never seen a bike on the road, thankfully. I don't have any problem with bikes in general but they shouldn't be allowed on high traffic, high speed roads. For their own safety.
In our neighborhood, yes. On main roads, no. Bikes are hard for drivers to see, and they're not expecting them. It's somewhat akin to crosswalks - the pedestrian has the right-of-way, but a person is an idiot if they step out in front of a vehicle coming toward them. They could be dead right.
My daily driver is an Audi SQ5. Runs like a bat out of hell and would look silly "lifted". No longer have a truck, but when I had one it was a small Mazda 3000 (I think) and I used it to haul stuff. Don't have the need for it any longer.
I have one but it's not really "installed" - just stuck to the windshield with a suction cup. Works great. It also has rear capability but I'm not using that part. A professional installation would require tapping into the rear-view mirror for power, and removing panels on the doors and ceiling and I don't want anyone taking my car apart. They'd probably screw something up. So I just live with a wire stuck in the cigarette lighter for the front. It cost well under $100 from Amazon.
I have an SQ5 as well, it's one I don't drive much anymore so my son uses it. Great car and fast as hell.
I've been off this site for 40 days, so it's comforting to come back and see that absolutely nothing has changed and that GLFR and Pain are still going at it. It's good to be back in old familiar places.
You can pay for a lot of cameras by avoiding one swerve and stop or whatever they call them.
If the cyclist was coming the wrong way down the sidewalk, I dont' think there's any question it was his fault unless there are some very unique local laws (which you shouldn't be relying on as a biker because you're always going to have out of town drivers around).
Maybe he can push some fault to the driver on a technicality if the driver was required to stop before a cross walk like that in the jurisdiction they're in, but there are plenty of places where you can't safely see whether you can turn without crossing into the crosswalk. Seems perfectly reasonable to me to check for pedestrians and proceed forward without checking to see if a bike is riding down the sidewalk.
Legally that's where bikes belong, but practically that doesn't work as a single solution. We do have a lot of places where neither our our roads nor sidewalks are designed for bikes. It would have been great if more had been, but they weren't and there are some places where there's no good practical way to fix that. That said, we do have plenty of places where sidewalks are a good place for bikes (like many of our suburban, car centric areas), provided it's on the bikes to avoid pedestrians and also not be dubmasses at intersections. I'm not sure how many places in Mississippi we have where we have roads that are too fast for bikes (say anything above a 20 or 25mph speed limit) but also have enough pedestrian traffic that they shouldn't be on sidewalks. We have roads where there just isn't a sidewalk, but generally I think most of the places in Mississippi and the southeast in general bikes can be either on the road or on the sidewalk safely.
That cyclist is dead. He does not care whose fault it is anymore. That Driver may get manslaughter charge and go to prison, get raped dozens of times but that cyclist is still dead. Play stupid games get stupid prizes. Keep your bike off the highway if you don't want to die and let others work out whose fault it is when someone else gets killed, not you.
I rode bikes all my life and thought nothing of riding on the roads but even then we avoided it during busy times. I road awhile back on HWY 15 out in the country and I will not do that again. People are not paying attention and are texting and crap. **** is dangerous.
I am a reluctant bike rider, do the occasional triathlon so am forced to do some road riding. I am lit up like a Christmas tree, even in the day. When I lived in Florida, I had a biker T-bone my truck, he was found at fault as he was riding on the sidewalk. As some of said here, it's different by local, but in that scenario, they were also responsible for my damage as they were over 16 and a licensed driver, which in Florida they actually enforced mandatory insurance. To add, most bikers follow the law and are courteous, many comments I have read, not just here, but elsewhere is that vehicle drivers find them an inconvenience, but there are many laws that protect the biker and it is in your best interest to follow them. Involuntary manslaughter is a real thing.
Most drivers only really notice bikers when they're being insufferable a holes. The ones doing a recreational ride slowing down people trying to get to work because the law says they are entitled to ride on a road with a speed limit twice what they are realistically going to go, so 17 everyone else that has to work. The people riding two or three abreast on a two lane highway with a 45 or 55 mph speed limit. The ones blowing through stop signs or red lights and expecting cars to accommodate them. Etc. Just like other drivers, the ones following the rules of the road, and probably more important, just being decent, are more or less just part of the background.
I agree that if a road is not safe to ride on, it is best to avoid it.
In a better world, it wouldn't be unsafe to ride on. But reality and not ideal should dictate decision making.
It's telling that you used 'entitled' instead of 'legally allowed'.
Nobody's mind will change on this because it is an topic which triggers an irrational amount of anger. Topics which trigger an irrational amount of anger are typically ones which any people are dug in and unwilling or unable to change.
I just hope that everyone who gets triggered by slowing down for a cyclist and adding 5-40 seconds to their drive, is equally outraged at all the traffic violations that vehicles around them constantly commit.
I just drove home from work- it's a 6mi drive with 3mi of town stoplight road and 3mi of interstate.
- I think 5 cars drove thru lights that had turned red as they entered the intersection. There was one where 3 did that at once.
- easily half the cars on the interstate were speeding.
- a handful of cars on the town roads were speeding.
- at least 2 cars changed lanes driving thru or right after an intersection.
Probably 99.5% of traffic violations I see are vehicles- cars, trucks, vans, semis.
Seems like outrage should be commensurate.
Last edited:
I used entitled because it's the correct word for the thought I was communicating. There are lots of *** hole moves that are legally permissible. You are entitled in the legal sense to do it, and you are entitled in the pejorative sense if you do it.
I haven't seen a lot of people get bothered by 5-40 seconds to their drive. I'm sure it happens to an extent, just like you have people honk at people that don't peel out of an intersection as soon as the light turns green. But that's not usually what I see people complaining about.
I actually do entertain myself on drives by bitching about all the other *** hole drivers, thank you very much.
Again, it's availability heuristic. Most people don't notice most cars or bikes that aren't being *** holes. I honestly couldn't tell you whether there were any cars on the road this morning when I went to work. I mean, I "know" there were, but I don't have any memory of one. Nor can I tell you how often bikes are riding down sidewalks that I pass on my way to work. I know it happens (and that is the appropriate place for them to be for most of the route I take to work) but I don't know if it's everyday. So if I see 5 cars and one biker each do something equally stupid and/or dangerous in a day, I know the 5 cars are still a numerator over a pretty big denominator, but my brain may greatly underestimate the number of bicyclists I passed that day.