Would we have had the bad losses against Gonzaga and Vandy the losses against NC, UL, Bama?
How much different would our season had been if Pope's entire roster, Lowe, JQ, CW played all year?
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"If if was a fifth, we'd all be drunk"
I think you win North Carolina, but probably still lose the other ones.
Pretty sure we had everybody (Lowe and JQ weren't healthy but still) vs. Bama and they whooped our *** by 15. So, not much of a difference if any. Might have actually been worse with them.
I think a fully healthy Lowe with no disruption to the team’s continuity probably gets us 2-3 more games.
JQ doesn’t help us in those early season blowouts because even the most optimistic timelines had him coming back at some point in December. If that happens and he continues to play, maybe one more additional game to the tally I gave with Lowe.
So at best, 3-4 games IMO.
JQ doesn’t help us in those early season blowouts because even the most optimistic timelines had him coming back at some point in December. If that happens and he continues to play, maybe one more additional game to the tally I gave with Lowe.
So at best, 3-4 games IMO.
Why are we asking about an injured guy who was recruited hurt? He was only here because we offered and everyone backed off. Mark signed him for a prayer not because he was actually going to play all year. It was known he might not ever play. It’s crazy to add JQ
Lowe is a shot clunker. Add him to a team of ball hogs which we were now you’re making it worse. He had the worst offensive efficiency out there when he played. He’s not a very good PG that’s why he’s here playing for Mark.
We see clearly Kam made no difference. ISU without their best player pimp smacked this teams best effort with Kam.
It doesn’t make much difference at all unless you believe in fairy land where we can dream up Kam and Lowe as NBA Ready players.
Also, the team clearly got better when they went away. F68 analyst said the team finally defined roles and played better with short rotations. Those injuries were a blessing, it kept Mark from subbing crazier than he already was. Chandler and Oweh got leaps and bounds better without them because Mark can’t manage that many players. It made the guys that needed focus get the focus. Mark was talking about having suicidal ideations when they were all out there. He can’t control all of those ball hogs.
It’s been beaten to death. There’s a reality and there’s an excuse people want to give Mark.
Lowe is a shot clunker. Add him to a team of ball hogs which we were now you’re making it worse. He had the worst offensive efficiency out there when he played. He’s not a very good PG that’s why he’s here playing for Mark.
We see clearly Kam made no difference. ISU without their best player pimp smacked this teams best effort with Kam.
It doesn’t make much difference at all unless you believe in fairy land where we can dream up Kam and Lowe as NBA Ready players.
Also, the team clearly got better when they went away. F68 analyst said the team finally defined roles and played better with short rotations. Those injuries were a blessing, it kept Mark from subbing crazier than he already was. Chandler and Oweh got leaps and bounds better without them because Mark can’t manage that many players. It made the guys that needed focus get the focus. Mark was talking about having suicidal ideations when they were all out there. He can’t control all of those ball hogs.
It’s been beaten to death. There’s a reality and there’s an excuse people want to give Mark.
Lowe is a shot clunker? I think it would have made a big difference had we had an actual point guard feeding Aberdeen, Chandler, Oweh, Moreno. But, we will never know I guess.
First of all, we can't say "all year" when it comes to JQ. There had to be ZERO expectation (other than from the annual 40-0 crowd) that JQ would play before Christmas. So for him, you can just say starting with SEC play.
We obviously would have been some better. JQ would have provided better defense, good shot blocking, good rebounding, been more consistent than the FR Moreno or than Garrison. JQ would especially have helped vs certain teams like Florida. But offensively, I'm not sure he would have helped much (beyond what we got from Moreno & Garrison).
Lowe would have helped, he was probably the 2nd closest thing we had (after Oweh) to someone who could go get a bucket when need one. His outside shooting wasn't good though, but he was quick enough to get past defenders even when they were giving him the jumper. But he would have allowed Aberdeen to play a role more like last year (but more minutes than last year) and relegated Johnson to the end of the bench.
Williams was starting to show some positive signs when he got hurt. But far from a start player, but a contributor. He would have helped on nights when Chandler was missing shots, and in certain defensive matchups.
Don't forget the 5 games MoD missed, but really just 2 important games (Gonzaga & UNC). UNC game was close enough, he would have probably been enough to push us to a win in that one.
Lastly, many forget that Oweh didn't practice/work-out much of the fall with a foot injury, and I think that is why he started so slow (13.7ppg first 9 games, 20.3ppg rest of season).
While better, with more options, and needing less contributions from the bottom 2-4 guys, a 100% healthy team still would not have had that 2nd or 3rd "go-to-guy" who can get you a basket when you need one. So I think a healthy team would have probably had 4-6 more wins, and walked into the SEC-T in 2nd-3rd place, with a 24-7 record & ranked around 10-12, and probably got a 3-seed in the NCAA-T.
We obviously would have been some better. JQ would have provided better defense, good shot blocking, good rebounding, been more consistent than the FR Moreno or than Garrison. JQ would especially have helped vs certain teams like Florida. But offensively, I'm not sure he would have helped much (beyond what we got from Moreno & Garrison).
Lowe would have helped, he was probably the 2nd closest thing we had (after Oweh) to someone who could go get a bucket when need one. His outside shooting wasn't good though, but he was quick enough to get past defenders even when they were giving him the jumper. But he would have allowed Aberdeen to play a role more like last year (but more minutes than last year) and relegated Johnson to the end of the bench.
Williams was starting to show some positive signs when he got hurt. But far from a start player, but a contributor. He would have helped on nights when Chandler was missing shots, and in certain defensive matchups.
Don't forget the 5 games MoD missed, but really just 2 important games (Gonzaga & UNC). UNC game was close enough, he would have probably been enough to push us to a win in that one.
Lastly, many forget that Oweh didn't practice/work-out much of the fall with a foot injury, and I think that is why he started so slow (13.7ppg first 9 games, 20.3ppg rest of season).
While better, with more options, and needing less contributions from the bottom 2-4 guys, a 100% healthy team still would not have had that 2nd or 3rd "go-to-guy" who can get you a basket when you need one. So I think a healthy team would have probably had 4-6 more wins, and walked into the SEC-T in 2nd-3rd place, with a 24-7 record & ranked around 10-12, and probably got a 3-seed in the NCAA-T.
Lowe did play for a few games and we weren’t that good with him…
Lowe is not a good shooter, but he is good at getting to the rim. Is he the ideal PG? No! But he would have kept Johnson off the floor for 10mpg, and allowed Chandler to sit more on nights when he was missing (with Aberdeen taking some of his minutes).
I'd say 5 more wins would certainly be possible if you had a healthy Lowe, Williams, for the year and a healthy JQ from St Johns on. I'm not sure about the games you mention but Mizzou, Texas, Georgia, Auburn and Texas A&M are certainly realistic and then you would have the advantage of a higher seed. Winning at least one or two games out of Bama, Vandy, NC, Loserville and Florida would not have been out of question with a full roster either.
Three extra wins. Five seed.
There's your Ferrari.
There's your Ferrari.
I think we win 3 more games.
UNC
Georgia
Missouri
I think we still lose to Iowa State. They were more disciplined, coached better and where mentally prepared.
People keep on thinking that we missed out on roster. That is some of the issue. However, this entire team was ill prepared and were mentally weak. Last years team was mentally weak as well but was more masked because they had a better BB IQ and could shoot better. This all starts with Pope facilitating the teams mentality. Iowa St coached proved that, changed their gameplay in the second half and UK couldn't punch back.
UNC
Georgia
Missouri
I think we still lose to Iowa State. They were more disciplined, coached better and where mentally prepared.
People keep on thinking that we missed out on roster. That is some of the issue. However, this entire team was ill prepared and were mentally weak. Last years team was mentally weak as well but was more masked because they had a better BB IQ and could shoot better. This all starts with Pope facilitating the teams mentality. Iowa St coached proved that, changed their gameplay in the second half and UK couldn't punch back.
The outcome will still be the same regardless of the players of a Mark Pope coached team.
He doesn’t relate to the elite players needed to win a championship.
He doesn’t relate to the elite players needed to win a championship.
Problem is he’s not a big time distributing PG. He likes to shoot and takes a lot of bad shots and has “Lowe” offensive efficiency. On this team he’s a recipe for disaster.
Maybe in good games he adds something but then you’ve got Mark having more ability to play with lineups. You don’t want Mark having more players you want him limited so his dumbass doesn’t keep chaotic sht going all over during the game.
There is little way that would have happened. You are vastly overselling. JQ was never thought of to be anyone who would play AT ALL by many. The earliest reports were sometime Jan and all the way to Feb all the way to he won’t play. Just throw that out, his intention was always likely to show up and show he’s mobile then sit which is exactly what he did.
Lowe is not a good point guard. His mid. Kam isn’t even mid on most days. Pope is terrible with the more players he has. If it brought a few wins it wouldn’t be 6 lol. Those guys are factually not players that add that type of difference.
It’s possible we win a few more, it’s also possible the team loses games we won. That’s what people are not latching on to.
Some of us appreciate your perspective, but I won’t spend another key stroke conversing with the woke moronic Pope pumpers that are littered on here!
They know next to nothing about the actual sport, and care next to nothing about the present or future of our once proud program, and they don’t give a single F about either one, instead the self identity with the downtrodden underdog coach like they are watching a Hallmark Movie with their mothers on a boring Saturday night.
No time for betas anymore.
I agree with 3-4 more regular season wins. Then we have a double bye in SEC tournament so who knows but likely a 4 seed in ncaa and possibly in the sweet 16 because we wouldn’t have ended up playing Iowa State in the second round. We weren’t top 10 regardless and it still would have been an overall meh type year.
With a healthy Lowe and JQ we likely a 2 or 3 seed . You can take off at least 5-6 losses with those 2 playing..
JQ played 1 healthy half all year and was a defensive force ( thevother 2 games he was a shell of what he showed vs STJ. - him in middle healthy would of made huge difference. Lowe would helped alot on offense . Kam is marginal.
JQ played 1 healthy half all year and was a defensive force ( thevother 2 games he was a shell of what he showed vs STJ. - him in middle healthy would of made huge difference. Lowe would helped alot on offense . Kam is marginal.
Whoa! Woke?! So anyone that supports Pope is somehow woke?! That’s ******* insane BS right there. Doesn’t even make sense.
Not that the OP is doing anything wrong by asking, but I mean at this point some of them are just going to have to watch the beatings next season to finally get it. I don’t know why, it’s clear as day Mark is a bad basketball coach. Not just on the court, not just recruiting, not just relationships and politics, Mark isn’t good at any aspect. Developing? Nope. Media? No. His history as a head coach? No.
Now he’s lost his footing and can’t recruit at all, but suddenly he’s going to turn into something he’s never been and injuries are holding back his 11/12 year record? Okay then, I hope they’re ready for a rude awakening. I wanted it too, but I saw early this season in the first few weeks he’s not going to win here. It’s easy to see it.
We probably win a few more games that we lost, but lose some that we won. Lowe would definitely have helped against UNC, but maybe cost us a game like Tennessee or Arkansas. We were always going to be a rollercoaster team. The three games we had everybody were a perfect example of that. MAYBE a full season without continuity interuptions and we could maybe be a four or five seed which is still far below what a $22 million roster should be.
Not having a true PG kneecapped the season. Pope gambled on having one true PG, which wasn't entirely his fault since Lewis decommitted because he didn't want to compete for minutes. Jasper fell well short of all expectations, so the only ball handler was really Aberdeen, who is a combo guard. Goes back to roster (mis)management, but still.
Without a decent backup at the 5, Moreno's freshman growing pains were on full display. Garrison also fell well short of expectations. If the JQ gambit pays off, we have a high-motor guy who can get every rebound, swat shots back in the shooters' faces, and slam everything thrown in his vicinity.
So, with all that said, the loss of those two kneecapped the season. I hope Pope will take lessons from what happened this year as he forms next year's roster, and learns not to gamble on guys. We need redundancy upon redundancy – especially at the 1 and 5, which are critical for Pope's offense.
Without a decent backup at the 5, Moreno's freshman growing pains were on full display. Garrison also fell well short of expectations. If the JQ gambit pays off, we have a high-motor guy who can get every rebound, swat shots back in the shooters' faces, and slam everything thrown in his vicinity.
So, with all that said, the loss of those two kneecapped the season. I hope Pope will take lessons from what happened this year as he forms next year's roster, and learns not to gamble on guys. We need redundancy upon redundancy – especially at the 1 and 5, which are critical for Pope's offense.
3 more losses the way Jquit played he was terrible he could not hit water if he threw a rock in the ocean
You pretty much answered your own question, but it's worth repeating for the people who are still in denial.
This whole exercise of talking about injuries is nothing more than a coping mechanism. For one, injuries have derailed both of Pope's seasons here. You have to at least suspect there's a training/nutrition/recovery issue going on if half the roster is ailing over the course of two full years. I'm not even counting JQ in that, because he came in as damaged goods. Butler and Lowe both needing shoulder surgery tells me we're doing incredibly dumb stuff with our training.
The better question is how good they would they have been if they had Lamont Butler and Amari Williams?
Because that is the type of players that he needs to go after: defensive Stalwarts
Because that is the type of players that he needs to go after: defensive Stalwarts
I actually think we would’ve been a different team entirely with JQ and Lowe.
JQ would’ve been a massive upgrade in rim protecting, rebounding, and post offense.
Lowe would’ve facilitated the offense and been able to provide more than what you would think.
His defense would’ve been subject but he would’ve put Aberdeen at his natural position. I think Denzel done a good job at pg but he wouldn’t have had to have that pressure and been a back up when needed.
I just think the season could’ve been different without the injuries but Pope recruited JQ knowing he would likely be recovering all season. I also think Pope should’ve done a better job with the portal last year.
JQ would’ve been a massive upgrade in rim protecting, rebounding, and post offense.
Lowe would’ve facilitated the offense and been able to provide more than what you would think.
His defense would’ve been subject but he would’ve put Aberdeen at his natural position. I think Denzel done a good job at pg but he wouldn’t have had to have that pressure and been a back up when needed.
I just think the season could’ve been different without the injuries but Pope recruited JQ knowing he would likely be recovering all season. I also think Pope should’ve done a better job with the portal last year.
We saw what the team would be like with everyone healthy. It wasn't all that great. Two more wins? Who knows? I saw during the Louisville game everything I needed to see about Lowe. Not a leader, not strong - someone who will always let you down by missing that clutch free throw or three-pointer.
Honestly don't know why it takes some of you so.damn.long to figure things out.
What I saw during that Iowa State game was something lower than probably anything I've ever seen as a Kentucky fan. I've never seen a Kentucky basketball team and coach just give up and quit like that. It was rotten to the core and I was disgusted by it.
Yes, apparently we are stuck with YEAR THREE - but anyone that sat through that despicable Iowa State garbage and wants to repeat it for another season is an enemy of Kentucky basketball.
It's going to be an awful year, that will close out the worst full decade in Kentucky Basketball history. At the end of it, there really is no guarantee that the program will ever fully recover.
Honestly don't know why it takes some of you so.damn.long to figure things out.
What I saw during that Iowa State game was something lower than probably anything I've ever seen as a Kentucky fan. I've never seen a Kentucky basketball team and coach just give up and quit like that. It was rotten to the core and I was disgusted by it.
Yes, apparently we are stuck with YEAR THREE - but anyone that sat through that despicable Iowa State garbage and wants to repeat it for another season is an enemy of Kentucky basketball.
It's going to be an awful year, that will close out the worst full decade in Kentucky Basketball history. At the end of it, there really is no guarantee that the program will ever fully recover.
The biggest question in my mind is whether Lowe helps the team as much as most expect him to. I'm not convinced of it. It is hard to know. for sure.
I do not think JQ elevates our chances of winning games that much. His net productivity does not impress me enough to think he makes a big difference.
I do not think JQ elevates our chances of winning games that much. His net productivity does not impress me enough to think he makes a big difference.
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I think if you had a fully healthy Lowe and fully healthy JQ, this team's ceiling is a lot better.
I think JQ would have helped our rebounding and rim protection a great deal. He also would have been a better perimeter defender. He also would have set actual screens.
The problem with the JQ thing--and I was worried about it back in the off-season--the timeline was always too tight. He had surgery in February. An ACL historically had been a 1 year recovery. And then once you're cleared to play, there's a building trust in the knee phase. A lot of athletes aren't 100% back to their previous level of performance until the 2nd year back to play.
ACL recovery timelines have shortened. But we were always going to be unlikely to get "The best" version of JQ. And maybe it's fine to look at it through the lens of "We have BG and Moreno as fall back plans."
But, whatever bidding wars we lost for other players--that JQ money could have and should have won those bidding wars.
The problem with Lowe is he and Oweh both needed the ball. Neither guy was great at working off ball. Neither guy was a great catch and shoot guy. And things got a little better once one of them was completely out of the picture because had a consistent path for the ball.
So I don't think we were going to get to the point of being contenders.
I think JQ would have helped our rebounding and rim protection a great deal. He also would have been a better perimeter defender. He also would have set actual screens.
The problem with the JQ thing--and I was worried about it back in the off-season--the timeline was always too tight. He had surgery in February. An ACL historically had been a 1 year recovery. And then once you're cleared to play, there's a building trust in the knee phase. A lot of athletes aren't 100% back to their previous level of performance until the 2nd year back to play.
ACL recovery timelines have shortened. But we were always going to be unlikely to get "The best" version of JQ. And maybe it's fine to look at it through the lens of "We have BG and Moreno as fall back plans."
But, whatever bidding wars we lost for other players--that JQ money could have and should have won those bidding wars.
The problem with Lowe is he and Oweh both needed the ball. Neither guy was great at working off ball. Neither guy was a great catch and shoot guy. And things got a little better once one of them was completely out of the picture because had a consistent path for the ball.
So I don't think we were going to get to the point of being contenders.
I think the season would have been much different actually.
Pure speculation… but more wins like UNC, Mizzou, UGA and Auburn.
Just those four and that‘s a pretty big difference.
Just say… 19-12 vs 23-8
UK would not have been elite but likely ranked all year and the feeling is a bit different.
UK would have had a double bye and likely made it to Saturday or Sunday of sec Tourney.
Realistically, probably 25-9… fellas that’s a 3 seed and UK still playing most likely.
A true natty contender? Probably not… but clearly better than what we saw this year.
In all honesty, it would have been a better defensive team with rim protector and the blowout losses would not have unfolded like they did.
I might be dead wrong but thought about this a lot.
Probably loses in elite 8 with a record of 28-10.
I’m confident there wouldn’t be nearly the angst there is currently either!
Pure speculation… but more wins like UNC, Mizzou, UGA and Auburn.
Just those four and that‘s a pretty big difference.
Just say… 19-12 vs 23-8
UK would not have been elite but likely ranked all year and the feeling is a bit different.
UK would have had a double bye and likely made it to Saturday or Sunday of sec Tourney.
Realistically, probably 25-9… fellas that’s a 3 seed and UK still playing most likely.
A true natty contender? Probably not… but clearly better than what we saw this year.
In all honesty, it would have been a better defensive team with rim protector and the blowout losses would not have unfolded like they did.
I might be dead wrong but thought about this a lot.
Probably loses in elite 8 with a record of 28-10.
I’m confident there wouldn’t be nearly the angst there is currently either!
Not much better, maybe worse. Seriously. One or two more wins, possibly. But could have been a few more losses too. So I’ll say no difference.
I agree with those saying we probably win a few more games, get a double bye in SEC tourney. There were plenty of games where the starters were playing well enough but we fell apart with subs - add these guys and we're playing less of the guys who just couldn't perform. We still aren't beating Florida, Alabama, etc. and the injured guys aren't turning the utter *** whippings we took into victories. We get a 4-5 seed, tossup to make it to 2nd weekend but no chance of getting past a 1 seed.
If JQ were 100% healthy:
1) How many minutes are Moreno or Garrison on the floor with him ??
2) Would the NET PRODUCTIVITY of the 5 spot be more, less, or about the same ??
3) Is JQ on the floor in the final minutes of tight games, knowing his free-throwing shooting is horrific, to say the least ??
Moreno and Garrison combined:
22.61 & 16.22 = 38.83 minutes per game
7.78 & 4.67 = 12.45 points per game
6.33 & 4.06 = 10.38 rebounds per game
1.47 & .83 = 2.30 blocks per game
Moreno = 69.84% from the line
Garrison = 59.09% from the line
Here are JQ's stats from last year, as he averaged 29.5 minutes a game
Jayden Quaintance College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Jayden Quaintance - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
www.sports-reference.com
Here are PER 40 for Moreno & Garrison this year, as compared to JQ last year:
Quaintance: 12.8 PPG, 10.7 TRB, 3.6 BLK, 52.5% FG%, 47.9% FT%, 3.5 PF
Moreno: 13.8 PPG, 11.2 TRB, 2.6 BLK, 58.2% PG%, 69.8% FT%, 3.8 PF
Garrison:11.5 PPG, 10.0 TRB, 2.0 BLK, 55.6% FG%, 59.1% FT%, 6.2 PF (Clearly, Garrison is foul-prone)
To my view, the recruitment of JQ, especially considering his injury status, is mind-boggling and Pope should've looked elsewhere.
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Kam Williams is a taller version of Trent Noah less the rebounding. Not a difference maker and his release is too low to get a shot off while being guarded.
Give Pope any roster and he’s going 20-11 or 21-10.
It’s who he is.
It’s who he is.