Big East needs to expand…….

[hallwins]

One of the primary reasons to schedule a real OOC is so that you aren't reliant on other teams. Schedule a real OOC and you don't need to worry about this stuff nearly as much.

The narrative around SJU's OOC was wildly overblown and often misstated in retrospect, but regardless was about SJU itself, not the Big East as a whole. Baylor and Ole Miss not being good probably cost them seeding-wise because those wins were discounted, but the 4 losses to teams that were in the Sweet 16 now, were in the Round of 32 or even on the bubble like Auburn didn't really hurt them that much beyond costing them a 2/3 seed.

Any W over Uconn or SJU by anyone else in the Big East was going to be a "good" win, regardless of location. So every team in the league had a chance to prop up their resumes by winning those games. The problem was wins over basically everyone else were "discounted".

The perception starts with what your roster looks like, which is what effects the various rankings people care about preseason, whether that be the AP, Kenpom, etc. If BE teams have a strong offseason, and schedule real OOCs top-to-bottom, it will help everyone and we won't be reliant on 1 or 2 teams to do the job for everyone else.

In terms of polls, St John's started the season number 5 and at the end of December was out of the Top 25. That is very hard to do.

In my opinion, it impacted the conference and I agree with you created a false narrative in retrospect. However, the narrative was very real around the time of the PC win at MSG in December.

I was not taking a shot at St John's.
I was simply stating the best team in the conference over the last 2 months did not win a lot of big OOC games and it impacted the perception of the conference. You can disagree of course.

 

[dehere23]

In terms of polls, St John's started the season number 5 and at the end of December was out of the Top 25. That is very hard to do.

In my opinion, it impacted the conference and I agree with you created a false narrative in retrospect. However, the narrative was very real around the time of the PC win at MSG in December.

I was not taking a shot at St John's.
I was simply stating the best team in the conference over the last 2 months did not win a lot of big OOC games and it impacted the perception of the conference. You can disagree of course.

I do disagree, because I think if we had 3-4 other teams in the top 25-30 (metrics wise), it wouldn't have mattered much for the league as as whole.

 

[hallwins]

I do disagree, because I think if we had 3-4 other teams in the top 25-30 (metrics wise), it wouldn't have mattered much for the league as as whole.

I understand.

 

[NIL BAD]

How many big OOC games did #3 seed UVA win this year?

 

[dehere23]

UVA's OOC wasn't strong, as I recall, being I think they were one of the ones I posted about on the seeding debate. They lost to Butler and perhaps had one W versus the NCAA field, like us. But in the stronger ACC they got numerous chances to get Ws over tournament-bound teams or losses that don't kill you.

 

[hallwins]

Meanwhile, the ACC got 8 teams in and 1 still standing after 2 very tough games for a 1 seed.

 

[ivyhillpark63]

How many big OOC games did #3 seed UVA win this year?

IDK but butler beat them pretty good

 

[Garyshu1971]

I don’t know what the right answere are, but it’s up to the Commissioner to do some Business Development work to see what makes sense. Agreed that the #1 priority is maximizing TV revenue per team and if it gets diluted, you can’t do it. But go and consult with your current TV contract partners to see what makes sense to them and see if it’s viable. Yes, likely that we win 1 or 2 games against the Big 3 in our league and we’re likely in the NCAAs this year. But the bar keeps getting higher for our league with the metrics.

Looking around is on going. Everyone is dropping ideas all the time. Last thing that had a chance was Gonzaga and two divisions. It had a real chance but eventually fittered out. Uconn was brought back because Uconn wanted to be back and added a lot. The way things are now , why would any big time program that would add substantially To Big East net ranking want to be in TBEC?

The BE problem is that it has too many mediocre teams now.It doesn't get better by adding more mediocre teams.It gets better by the mediocre teams adding NIL spending so they can be competitive.

It's so simple!!!!

 

[Seton75]

No cost involved there., especially with NIL. (Stadium, practice facility just to name a few) SH could probably sell out Shepard Field.

lol...Ed Manigan can coach

 

[Seton75]

True. If we win 2 of those games we have a good chance at 12-8.

But why put all your eggs in a smaller basketball? Schedule a real OOC even without guaranteed "home and homes" because people do not want to play at the Rock per se, and MSG is a difficult place to schedule with everyone and everything that is going to take priority over a Seton Hall basketball game. The only reason not do do that is if you want to come into the conference season with a gaudy, propped up record that isn't indicative of how good you are, which is what happened this year to the Hall. I know Sha probably hates having a series of strong November/December OOC "tests" on the schedule, because like most coaches he wants more time for his team to play together and gel, especially in this era. But having an OOC like we did this year makes things so much harder for us in the league unless you are guaranteed to have 50% or more Quad 1 opportunities, which isn't the Big East right now.

Come on, coming off the previous yr with a brand new team?? nfw. We played 4 or 5 major conf teams. One at their place. None were great, but they werent NEC teams. IMO, that was as tough as I would schedule. If UM didnt ditch us for Nova and they beat us by 28 like they beat Nova, you think that would have gotten us a bid?

 

[dehere23]

Come on, coming off the previous yr with a brand new team?? nfw. We played 4 or 5 major conf teams. One at their place. Njobe were great, hut they werent NEC teams. IMO, that was as tough as I would schedule. If UM didnt ditch us for Nova and they beat us by 28 like they beat Nova, you think that would have gotten us a bid?

I hear you and no I don't think losing by a million to Michigan would have mattered. I get your and Dan's points on the schedule and think they are fair ones. But the inverse is true as well; you beat up on a weak OOC, and the league doesn't have the season most thought, it is just so limiting in your opportunities to NCAA resume wins, and don't complain when you can't get past the bubble.

 

[dehere23]

Said differently, a 9-6 record against a strong OOC can often position you better to dance than 13-2 against a weak OOC. Not always, but often enough.

 

[Gritty5837]

I’d say VCU, St. Louis and Dayton would be great fits.

St. Louis could leapfrog to the 4th-5th best program in the BE. They already have good resources and a jump to the BE would probably come with enthusiastic donors

Overall I agree the league as is just needs to be better.

 

[Seton75]

I’d say VCU, St. Louis and Dayton would be great fits.

St. Louis could leapfrog to the 4th-5th best program in the BE. They already have good resources and a jump to the BE would probably come with enthusiastic donors

Overall I agree the league as is just needs to be better.

COST PER TEAM TO ADD THEM -$2 million bucks / year - Good deal for SHU?

BE media deals are for 80 mill a yr. Do you think our media partners would increase the payments if we added them, or that we could no renegotiate?

My uneducated opnion is no.

 

[hallwins]

COST PER TEAM TO ADD THEM -$2 million bucks / year - Good deal for SHU?

BE media deals are for 80 mill a yr. Do you think our media partners would increase the payments if we added them, or that we could no renegotiate?

My uneducated opnion is no.

I don't think any move is made without the media partners weighing in heavily or in fact being the driving force behind the moves. It is why this is very scary to me that e s p n, which produced requiem for the big east is now our primary media partner.

 

[lloyde dobler]

I don't think any move is made without the media partners weighing in heavily or in fact being the driving force behind the moves. It is why this is very scary to me that e s p n, which produced requiem for the big east is now our primary media partner.

No they aren’t

 

[SHUSource]

COST PER TEAM TO ADD THEM -$2 million bucks / year - Good deal for SHU?

BE media deals are for 80 mill a yr. Do you think our media partners would increase the payments if we added them, or that we could no renegotiate?

My uneducated opnion is no.

The thing is, none of the schools out there have the brand profile that would actually add value to our media rights, and so the answer is absolutely "no."

Saint Louis and Dayton are fine programs that usually function very well outside of the spotlight, with good fan support and often good teams. Saint Louis just finished great year. But none of them and the others suggested bring the nationally recognizable basketball brands that empower the Big East to ask for even one more dollar from our media sponsors. Which means, as others have said, that we'd split the current revenue among 13 or 14 programs rather than 11, which is already not a lucrative situation. Why dilute it further?

I think Gonzaga was the only one out there that would've made any sense, and even then, the increase in revenue is mitigated by the cost of frequent flights to Spokane.

 

[Seton75]

I don't think any move is made without the media partners weighing in heavily or in fact being the driving force behind the moves. It is why this is very scary to me that e s p n, which produced requiem for the big east is now our primary media partner.

So is adding these 4 team worth $2,000,000 00 a year to Seton Gall?

 

[hallwins]

No they aren’t

I stand or sit corrected.

 

[TommyD82]

The thing is, none of the schools out there have the brand profile that would actually add value to our media rights, and so the answer is absolutely "no."

Saint Louis and Dayton are fine programs that usually function very well outside of the spotlight, with good fan support and often good teams. Saint Louis just finished great year. But none of them and the others suggested bring the nationally recognizable basketball brands that empower the Big East to ask for even one more dollar from our media sponsors. Which means, as others have said, that we'd split the current revenue among 13 or 14 programs rather than 11, which is already not a lucrative situation. Why dilute it further?

I think Gonzaga was the only one out there that would've made any sense, and even then, the increase in revenue is mitigated by the cost of frequent flights to Spokane.

Agree if you go to 14 teams SLU VCU UD make sense but what do they really add? And TV markets? Is someone going to suggest Fhordam next for their TV market?

 

[hallwins]

So is adding these 4 team worth $2,000,000 00 a year to Seton Gall?

I doubt it but I guess it is whatever the media partners will pay.

 

[hallwins]

Agree if you go to 14 teams SLU VCU UD make sense but what do they really add? And TV markets? Is someone going to suggest Fhordam next for their TV market?

The two Division approach east or traditional v Midwest could generate dome interest in fan engagement etc ... but I would think the pros in media don't think it moves the needle.

 

[radecicco]

UVA's OOC wasn't strong, as I recall, being I think they were one of the ones I posted about on the seeding debate. They lost to Butler and perhaps had one W versus the NCAA field, like us. But in the stronger ACC they got numerous chances to get Ws over tournament-bound teams or losses that don't kill you.

Yeah, the stronger ACC. Got eight teams in and only one got to the second weekend. But I understand the metrics said they were stronger.

 

[hallwins]

I don't think any move is made without the media partners weighing in heavily or in fact being the driving force behind the moves. It is why this is very scary to me that e s p n, which produced requiem for the big east is now our primary media partner.

I recognized my error there @SPK145 LOL

 

[SPK145]

I recognized my error there @SPK145 LOL

All good, #$%@ ESPN!

 

[downthestairs]

The best fit by far is Fordham. The most obvious add ever

Second best fit is NYU