New Democrat Tax Hikes

[Rastafarian]

Some very good points. Why have democrat tax proposals simply pressed increasing income taxes rather than address the issues you cited? I'd be much more interested in solutions to those gaps vs. simply raising my taxes. But I haven't seen a proposal from either side to do it. And I have to fight back on proposals suggesting more money should be taken from my family.

I think where many on this board get frustrated with your takes is that your complaints are directed at dem proposals and benefits to poor people. Maybe I missed it but I have not read you complain about Trump gutting the IRS, loopholes in his tax proposals, and corporate subsidies and tax breaks.

All those impact your taxes more than benefits to the poor. Why should corporations and billionaires get a free ride?

MAGA has been so destructive to this country. If the republicans had a sane candidate, it would force the Dems to not be so worthless. But with Trump, it’s a race to the bottom. He’s such a disaster that the Dems know their best path is just to talk about all the bad things he’s doing instead of actually coming up with good policies.

Even though we likely check different boxes during the election, I would bet you and I at a high level care about the very same things. And it’s not the culture wars that maga focuses on.

 

[Rastafarian]

I wonder how many of the New Yorkerwho fled due to high tax polices will return to higher taxes out of a sense of patriotism. I’m going to guess exactly zero.


This is a lightbulb moment for democrats.

She’s an idiot. That’s as dumb as asking oil tankers to brave hormez out of a sense of patriotism.

 

[dpic73]

I think where many on this board get frustrated with your takes is that your complaints are directed at dem proposals and benefits to poor people. Maybe I missed it but I have not read you complain about Trump gutting the IRS, loopholes in his tax proposals, and corporate subsidies and tax breaks.

All those impact your taxes more than benefits to the poor. Why should corporations and billionaires get a free ride?

MAGA has been so destructive to this country. If the republicans had a sane candidate, it would force the Dems to not be so worthless. But with Trump, it’s a race to the bottom. He’s such a disaster that the Dems know their best path is just to talk about all the bad things he’s doing instead of actually coming up with good policies.

Even though we likely check different boxes during the election, I would bet you and I at a high level care about the very same things. And it’s not the culture wars that maga focuses on.

 

[Rastafarian]

I can’t take someone seriously if they claim to be fiscal conservative/America first and aren’t outraged by this illegal war.

 

[MTTiger19]

I think we need to raise taxes on everyone who makes what @scotchtiger makes or more

Instead of taxing him. Why don’t you find out how he’s doing it and do it yourself? Then you could give all YOUR money away instead of counting ours.

 

[MTTiger19]

What was the least moderate thing about H. Clinton, in your mind?

Idk. Deporting all illegals? She was definitely for that.

 

[baltimorened]

I think where many on this board get frustrated with your takes is that your complaints are directed at dem proposals and benefits to poor people. Maybe I missed it but I have not read you complain about Trump gutting the IRS, loopholes in his tax proposals, and corporate subsidies and tax breaks.

All those impact your taxes more than benefits to the poor. Why should corporations and billionaires get a free ride?

MAGA has been so destructive to this country. If the republicans had a sane candidate, it would force the Dems to not be so worthless. But with Trump, it’s a race to the bottom. He’s such a disaster that the Dems know their best path is just to talk about all the bad things he’s doing instead of actually coming up with good policies.

Even though we likely check different boxes during the election, I would bet you and I at a high level care about the very same things. And it’s not the culture wars that maga focuses on.

not to be argumentative, but I really don't think corporations and billionaires are getting a free ride. Isn't there a post or two about the governor of NY asking the high earners to come back to NY - at least in part because NY misses their tax dollars. So, that would lead me to believe, that at least she thinks that they were paying taxes.

I think, personally, that democrats are making a mistake by just going after trump and not explaining what they would do differently. Now, I know this is anecdotal, but democrats are highlighting that gas under trump is now in the $4 range. They must have bad memories because under the last Democrat administration gas was $5...and they explained all the reasons for the high prices.

I think we could all agree that our fiscal house, our tax policies and just about everything (slight exaggeration) with the economy need a hard look with significant changes made. But we'll never get there is one party if for everything Trump and the other is against everything Trump. Instead maybe they should revise thinking more toward actions which are good for Americans. Where we are now is not good.

Let's not lose track of the fact that since 2000 we've had both Republican and Democrat Presidents and, similarly, democrats and republicans in control of the House and Senate. Now, we can rationalize that one party is less guilty for the situation we are in today, but, in reality, they are both guilty

 

[MTTiger19]

not to be argumentative, but I really don't think corporations and billionaires are getting a free ride. Isn't there a post or two about the governor of NY asking the high earners to come back to NY - at least in part because NY misses their tax dollars. So, that would lead me to believe, that at least she thinks that they were paying taxes.

I think, personally, that democrats are making a mistake by just going after trump and not explaining what they would do differently. Now, I know this is anecdotal, but democrats are highlighting that gas under trump is now in the $4 range. They must have bad memories because under the last Democrat administration gas was $5...and they explained all the reasons for the high prices.

I think we could all agree that our fiscal house, our tax policies and just about everything (slight exaggeration) with the economy need a hard look with significant changes made. But we'll never get there is one party if for everything Trump and the other is against everything Trump. Instead maybe they should revise thinking more toward actions which are good for Americans. Where we are now is not good.

Let's not lose track of the fact that since 2000 we've had both Republican and Democrat Presidents and, similarly, democrats and republicans in control of the House and Senate. Now, we can rationalize that one party is less guilty for the situation we are in today, but, in reality, they are both guilty

The question is why should I, a taxpayer, be responsible for this? Until this stops, I don’t want to hear about people needing to pay more taxes. No one on the planet should have to work to support this.

 

[MTTiger19]

not to be argumentative, but I really don't think corporations and billionaires are getting a free ride. Isn't there a post or two about the governor of NY asking the high earners to come back to NY - at least in part because NY misses their tax dollars. So, that would lead me to believe, that at least she thinks that they were paying taxes.

I think, personally, that democrats are making a mistake by just going after trump and not explaining what they would do differently. Now, I know this is anecdotal, but democrats are highlighting that gas under trump is now in the $4 range. They must have bad memories because under the last Democrat administration gas was $5...and they explained all the reasons for the high prices.

I think we could all agree that our fiscal house, our tax policies and just about everything (slight exaggeration) with the economy need a hard look with significant changes made. But we'll never get there is one party if for everything Trump and the other is against everything Trump. Instead maybe they should revise thinking more toward actions which are good for Americans. Where we are now is not good.

Let's not lose track of the fact that since 2000 we've had both Republican and Democrat Presidents and, similarly, democrats and republicans in control of the House and Senate. Now, we can rationalize that one party is less guilty for the situation we are in today, but, in reality, they are both guilty

Good point Ned, if these millionaire and billionaire freeloaders weren’t paying taxes and contributing as the left claims, why say this?

 

[baltimorened]

Good point Ned, if these millionaire and billionaire freeloaders weren’t paying taxes and contributing as the left claims, why say this?

I just find the comments "Corporations and billionaires getting a free ride or not paying their fair share" to be meaningless especially when no one can define what the term "fair share" means

 

[PawPride]

I just find the comments "Corporations and billionaires getting a free ride or not paying their fair share" to be meaningless especially when no one can define what the term "fair share" means

I mean, you've had multiple people ITT say what they think would be a "fair share." They think that corps and billionaires paying less % than a secretary is wrong. I would agree with that. I'd also say that it's pretty sickening that since 1978 average executive pay has increased 1000x and average worker pay has increased 25% over that same time.

Expecting your average message board poster to come up with exact solutions to this **** is such a copout. People are upset with the economy, upset that the rich seem to be getting more wealthy and the common man is struggling day to day, and the only feedback they get from their gov't is "oh don't worry it's not that bad!"

 

[baltimorened]

I mean, you've had multiple people ITT say what they think would be a "fair share." They think that corps and billionaires paying less % than a secretary is wrong. I would agree with that. I'd also say that it's pretty sickening that since 1978 average executive pay has increased 1000x and average worker pay has increased 25% over that same time.

Expecting your average message board poster to come up with exact solutions to this **** is such a copout. People are upset with the economy, upset that the rich seem to be getting more wealthy and the common man is struggling day to day, and the only feedback they get from their gov't is "oh don't worry it's not that bad!"

I'm not expecting the board to come up with that answer. How about either a Republican or Democrat senator or candidate for president.

If I understand your statement if a corporation or billionaire pays a higher % ( I assume you mean effective rate) than a secretary that's a fair share.

 

[PawPride]

I'm not expecting the board to come up with that answer. How about either a Republican or Democrat senator or candidate for president.

If I understand your statement if a corporation or billionaire pays a higher % ( I assume you mean effective rate) than a secretary that's a fair share.

I'd love for one of our elected officials to do that, but apparently it's too tall an ask.

Yeah, I meant effective rate. I don't really have a one-size-fits-all rate for what I think they should owe that I'd qualify as "fair share", but I understand the sentiment many in the US have that they aren't paying ENOUGH.

 

[baltimorened]

I'd love for one of our elected officials to do that, but apparently it's too tall an ask.

Yeah, I meant effective rate. I don't really have a one-size-fits-all rate for what I think they should owe that I'd qualify as "fair share", but I understand the sentiment many in the US have that they aren't paying ENOUGH.

I agree with your last statement, but I'd also submit most Americans have no idea how much either a generic corporation or a generic billionaire pays in taxes. They only know that Elizabeth warren (a multi millionaire) and Bernie Sanders (a multi millionaire) says they're not paying their fair share, and they don't have any idea either of how much a generic billionaire pays in taxes.

 

[Fac]

I wonder how many of the New Yorkerwho fled due to high tax polices will return to higher taxes out of a sense of patriotism. I’m going to guess exactly zero.


This is a lightbulb moment for democrats.

Lefty retards. There are so many of them.

 

[Rastafarian]

Lefty retards. There are so many of them.

You are an exceptional contributor to this board. Every post is full of knowledge and thought provoking insights.

 

[dpic73]

Lefty retards. There are so many of them.

We know you love him and he knows it's because you're a stupid person. He said so himself.

 

[scotchtiger]

I think where many on this board get frustrated with your takes is that your complaints are directed at dem proposals and benefits to poor people. Maybe I missed it but I have not read you complain about Trump gutting the IRS, loopholes in his tax proposals, and corporate subsidies and tax breaks.

All those impact your taxes more than benefits to the poor. Why should corporations and billionaires get a free ride?

MAGA has been so destructive to this country. If the republicans had a sane candidate, it would force the Dems to not be so worthless. But with Trump, it’s a race to the bottom. He’s such a disaster that the Dems know their best path is just to talk about all the bad things he’s doing instead of actually coming up with good policies.

Even though we likely check different boxes during the election, I would bet you and I at a high level care about the very same things. And it’s not the culture wars that maga focuses on.

To be clear, I didn't mention a single benefit to poor people in my OP. I talked about the absurdity of INCREASING the number of people who pay NOTHING in federal income tax. And I stand by that. It has nothing to do with the benefits poor people receive today.

In your previous post, you pivoted to SNAP and put words in my mouth regarding that as a source of savings. I don't have a fundamental issue with SNAP. But, I would add three things that pretty much 100% of American's should agree on:

• Strict work requirements, just as Bill Clinton advocated for in the 90s. I know there have been some changes here and I'm not sure where things landed, but 100 out of 100 Americans should agree that working age people without a handicap should work, volunteer, attend school or be a full-time caregiver in order to receive handouts.
• Ensure that precisely zero people who are not legally allowed to work and live in the US receive funds. Another very obvious and near unanimous one.
• Limit SNAP to actual nutrition. No sodas, sugary drinks, candy, etc. This should help with Medicaid spend as well over time by attempting to address the obesity epidemic among our poor.

I'm very reasonable with this stuff. Let's help the people who need it. Let's treat it as a hand up, not a permanent hand out. Let's hold people accountable for their choices. Let's be innovative in how we solve big problems. For example, lets invest MORE in food deserts and nutrition education to lower obesity levels and medical spend in Medicaid populations.

And I've specifically said to propose policy about billionaires. It's hard for me to articulate how moronic someone sounds when - in the same breath - they talk about billionaires not paying their fair share and then propose increased taxes on people making $400K or lowering the estate tax deduction to $750K. These are either double digit IQ people, or people who are trying to dupe double digit IQ people.

And yes, I do focus on the specific policies proposed by the left that would confiscate more resources from my family. It's personal. And when added to the categorical criticism of my group not paying it's fair share - which is absurd - it's really grinds my gears.

Also yes, I bet we have a lot more in common than not and would enjoy a conversation over a cold beer.

 

[dbjork6317]

To be clear, I didn't mention a single benefit to poor people in my OP. I talked about the absurdity of INCREASING the number of people who pay NOTHING in federal income tax. And I stand by that. It has nothing to do with the benefits poor people receive today.

In your previous post, you pivoted to SNAP and put words in my mouth regarding that as a source of savings. I don't have a fundamental issue with SNAP. But, I would add three things that pretty much 100% of American's should agree on:

• Strict work requirements, just as Bill Clinton advocated for in the 90s. I know there have been some changes here and I'm not sure where things landed, but 100 out of 100 Americans should agree that working age people without a handicap should work, volunteer, attend school or be a full-time caregiver in order to receive handouts.
• Ensure that precisely zero people who are not legally allowed to work and live in the US receive funds. Another very obvious and near unanimous one.
• Limit SNAP to actual nutrition. No sodas, sugary drinks, candy, etc. This should help with Medicaid spend as well over time by attempting to address the obesity epidemic among our poor.

I'm very reasonable with this stuff. Let's help the people who need it. Let's treat it as a hand up, not a permanent hand out. Let's hold people accountable for their choices. Let's be innovative in how we solve big problems. For example, lets invest MORE in food deserts and nutrition education to lower obesity levels and medical spend in Medicaid populations.

And I've specifically said to propose policy about billionaires. It's hard for me to articulate how moronic someone sounds when - in the same breath - they talk about billionaires not paying their fair share and then propose increased taxes on people making $400K or lowering the estate tax deduction to $750K. These are either double digit IQ people, or people who are trying to dupe double digit IQ people.

And yes, I do focus on the specific policies proposed by the left that would confiscate more resources from my family. It's personal. And when added to the categorical criticism of my group not paying it's fair share - which is absurd - it's really grinds my gears.

Also yes, I bet we have a lot more in common than not and would enjoy a conversation over a cold beer.

Do you feel the same way about corporations that pay nothing in federal income tax?

 

[scotchtiger]

Do you feel the same way about corporations that pay nothing in federal income tax?

Sure. I also didn’t like how they used tax reductions in trumps first term for stock buybacks.

 

[FLaw47]

gee, that was a long time ago, so i'd be less than honest if I told you I remembered what were the key issues of her campaign. So rather than just blurt out something that I wouldn't be able to defend, I'll just have to say "I don't remember". At least that way, I'd be honest.

I appreciate the honesty. I have a suspicion she was a lot more moderate than you're remembering but that the literal decades long campaign against Hillary made you assume otherwise. Either that or I'm totally miscalibrated on what constitutes center left politics.

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[baltimorened]

I appreciate the honesty. I have a suspicion she was a lot more moderate than you're remembering but that the literal decades long campaign against Hillary made you assume otherwise. Either that or I'm totally miscalibrated on what constitutes center left politics.

well, I have no doubt you're correct based on how far to the left things have gone since 2016. The problem with candidates for both parties, IMO, is that they become so totally tied to party politics that reality gets pushed aside. For example, republicans always run on lowering taxes. Really? We're $39 trillion in debt and just about anyone would agree that we need more revenue. Democrats want to increase taxes and spend more. Really, we're $39 trillion in debt....both generalizations I know.

I hope I'm here to see some leader come forward that can bring both parties together for the benefit of the country. I know, compromise is a bad word right now, but our government is based on that. We shouldn't base things on "wins" for the democrats or for republicans but for the country.

I don't know why Trump evokes such "hatred" and such antagonism among folks from the left. But he does. It just seems as if anything he's for, by definition, they have to be against. Some of his proposals and things he says are "dumb" but he has some good plans like the no tax on tips/overtime, things that democrats would normally have proposed themselves. One thing for certain, at least in my mind, no matter what good (or bad) he does while in office, we will likely be better as a unified country after his term. But, he's not the single problem..Democrats have to compromise as well. This entire shutdown thing is nonsensical and just shows how disfunctional our government is. And members of both parties are at fault, even if by different degrees.

 

[baltimorened]

I don't know, $40ntrillion is an awful lot of money to steal

 

[UrHuckleberry]

This is going to shock you and others, but this isn't true.

 

[Fac]

You are an exceptional contributor to this board. Every post is full of knowledge and thought provoking insights.

And every post from the left criticizes Trump. Never a post about anything good.
However, Biden could do no wrong.

 

[Fac]

well, I have no doubt you're correct based on how far to the left things have gone since 2016. The problem with candidates for both parties, IMO, is that they become so totally tied to party politics that reality gets pushed aside. For example, republicans always run on lowering taxes. Really? We're $39 trillion in debt and just about anyone would agree that we need more revenue. Democrats want to increase taxes and spend more. Really, we're $39 trillion in debt....both generalizations I know.

I hope I'm here to see some leader come forward that can bring both parties together for the benefit of the country. I know, compromise is a bad word right now, but our government is based on that. We shouldn't base things on "wins" for the democrats or for republicans but for the country.

I don't know why Trump evokes such "hatred" and such antagonism among folks from the left. But he does. It just seems as if anything he's for, by definition, they have to be against. Some of his proposals and things he says are "dumb" but he has some good plans like the no tax on tips/overtime, things that democrats would normally have proposed themselves. One thing for certain, at least in my mind, no matter what good (or bad) he does while in office, we will likely be better as a unified country after his term. But, he's not the single problem..Democrats have to compromise as well. This entire shutdown thing is nonsensical and just shows how disfunctional our government is. And members of both parties are at fault, even if by different degrees.

Good post Ned. The left will never agree with Trump on anything.
Fetterman did and look how the left wants him pasture.

 

[FLaw47]

well, I have no doubt you're correct based on how far to the left things have gone since 2016. The problem with candidates for both parties, IMO, is that they become so totally tied to party politics that reality gets pushed aside. For example, republicans always run on lowering taxes. Really? We're $39 trillion in debt and just about anyone would agree that we need more revenue. Democrats want to increase taxes and spend more. Really, we're $39 trillion in debt....both generalizations I know.

I hope I'm here to see some leader come forward that can bring both parties together for the benefit of the country. I know, compromise is a bad word right now, but our government is based on that. We shouldn't base things on "wins" for the democrats or for republicans but for the country.

I don't know why Trump evokes such "hatred" and such antagonism among folks from the left. But he does. It just seems as if anything he's for, by definition, they have to be against. Some of his proposals and things he says are "dumb" but he has some good plans like the no tax on tips/overtime, things that democrats would normally have proposed themselves. One thing for certain, at least in my mind, no matter what good (or bad) he does while in office, we will likely be better as a unified country after his term. But, he's not the single problem..Democrats have to compromise as well. This entire shutdown thing is nonsensical and just shows how disfunctional our government is. And members of both parties are at fault, even if by different degrees.

Can't argue with much of what you said but no tax on tips and overtime is lousy policy that I was deeply disappointed to see Harris support as well.

 

[baltimorened]

Can't argue with much of what you said but no tax on tips and overtime is lousy policy that I was deeply disappointed to see Harris support as well.

as an unbiased person, I don't work, so no tax on tips or overtime doesn't affect me. But, if we're going to complain about putting more money in the hands of working class people, it's one way to do that. There might be a better way to do it, and if it's better than this one, I'd be all for it

 

[FLaw47]

as an unbiased person, I don't work, so no tax on tips or overtime doesn't affect me. But, if we're going to complain about putting more money in the hands of working class people, it's one way to do that. There might be a better way to do it, and if it's better than this one, I'd be all for it

I strongly disagree with giving that sort of income preferential treatment over a regular W2 employee. A waiter doesn't work any harder than a machine operator. If you want to reduce taxes on the working class then just do that. But I find it interesting how many people talk about the numbers that pay no taxes and also support this policy.

 

[baltimorened]

I strongly disagree with giving that sort of income preferential treatment over a regular W2 employee. A waiter doesn't work any harder than a machine operator. If you want to reduce taxes on the working class then just do that. But I find it interesting how many people talk about the numbers that pay no taxes and also support this policy.

I might be wrong, but I suspect that the vast majority of these folks are W2 employees. There might be some exceptions.

I'd also suspect that some % of those taking advantage of the tips/overcome piece are part of the group paying no federal taxes.

But, as I posted, if there's another way I'd be all for it.

 

[PAWrocka]

Appreciate the acknowledgement of that.

If I may ask since 1985, how have your votes for president gone?

I'll tell you mine.
96 - Clinton
00 - Bush
04 - Kerry
08 - Obama
12 - Obama
16 - did not vote
20 - Biden
24 - Harris

For me it went
Turned 18 in 1997
00 -Bush
04 -Bush
08 -McCain
12- Obama
16 - wrote in neighbor
20 - wrote in other neighbor
24 - wrote in best friend.

 

[FLaw47]

I might be wrong, but I suspect that the vast majority of these folks are W2 employees. There might be some exceptions.

I'd also suspect that some % of those taking advantage of the tips/overcome piece are part of the group paying no federal taxes.

But, as I posted, if there's another way I'd be all for it.

I mean the obvious solution is to increase the standard deduction, change tax brackets, or increase the EITC but I doubt much of this board would support that. Tipped income and OT don't deserve preferential treatment. This was only done for votes in Nevada, which is unbecoming.

 

[TigerGrowls]

I don't know, $40ntrillion is an awful lot of money to steal

It's been building for a long time and of course the interest payments to the fed.

 

[TigerGrowls]

This is going to shock you and others, but this isn't true.

Go ahead and state your case then.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Go ahead and state your case then.

Find me some backup of your 2T. It does not exist. When someone starts their opinion with a lie, sort of makes it not worth respecting.

 

[tigres88]

Go ahead and state your case then.

Not Huck, but I'm happy to do so. However, we both know that you would rather believe a tweet you see from your echo chamber rather than verified fact from reputable sources, no? Like I could COMPLETELY prove that the tweet is wrong, and regardless you wouldn't agree it is. And we both know it- we've done this exercise a few times. Whatevs though:

The tweet is basically just rage bait using fake numbers and you know it

- The infrastructure bill was $1.2 trillion total, not $2 trillion.
- They didn't hand a blank check to Pete Buttigieg. The Department of Transportation managed about $660 billion over 5 years. The rest of the money went to the EPA for water, the Dept. of Commerce for broadband, and the Dept. of Energy for the power grid
-That money didn't disappear ya trogaladyte. Building bridges and highways takes years of planning and environmental reviews before ground is even broken. You can track exactly where the funds are going state-by-state on public trackers.

Do you even know what fraud actually is? Fraud is not "disagreeing with how funds are allocated," ESPECIALLY when you can clearly see how they are allocated via transparent means. Obviously there is debt, and what's cited in the tweet is just the math of us running a budget deficit for decades: paying for Social Security, Medicare, the military, etc. It's a huge issue, but it's public record, not some secret democrat fraud operation you weirdo

 

[m.knox]

Not Huck, but I'm happy to do so. However, we both know that you would rather believe a tweet you see from your echo chamber rather than verified fact from reputable sources, no? Like I could COMPLETELY prove that the tweet is wrong, and regardless you wouldn't agree it is. And we both know it- we've done this exercise a few times. Whatevs though:

The tweet is basically just rage bait using fake numbers and you know it

- The infrastructure bill was $1.2 trillion total, not $2 trillion.
- They didn't hand a blank check to Pete Buttigieg. The Department of Transportation managed about $660 billion over 5 years. The rest of the money went to the EPA for water, the Dept. of Commerce for broadband, and the Dept. of Energy for the power grid
-That money didn't disappear ya trogaladyte. Building bridges and highways takes years of planning and environmental reviews before ground is even broken. You can track exactly where the funds are going state-by-state on public trackers.

Do you even know what fraud actually is? Fraud is not "disagreeing with how funds are allocated," ESPECIALLY when you can clearly see how they are allocated via transparent means. Obviously there is debt, and what's cited in the tweet is just the math of us running a budget deficit for decades: paying for Social Security, Medicare, the military, etc. It's a huge issue, but it's public record, not some secret democrat fraud operation you weirdo

Nobody gives a **** about your POS cult option. Stuff it douche.

lol...

 

[dpic73]

Find me some backup of your 2T. It does not exist. When someone starts their opinion with a lie, sort of makes it not worth respecting.

The nerve of you to challenge him when you know he saw a tweet. What gives?

 

[dpic73]

Nobody gives a **** about your POS cult option. Stuff it douche.

lol...

WTF are you talking about Screech?