Do you believe firing Brands would result in a better coach and better results?
- Thread starter MSU158
- Start date
I didn't see an option for: "Hard to tell, it may get better, it may get worse." That would be my vote FWIW.
Thank you for this. Write-ins like these are actually encouraged.
To no one's surprise, this push poll sucks.
"Yes, the results will be better, even if the coach really isn't."
WTF?
"Yes, the results will be better, even if the coach really isn't."
WTF?
My opinion is that the program has been headed in the wrong direction for years now. It feels like we haven’t learned from mistakes (poor recruiting, transfer portal issues, and wrestler development).
I don’t know that there is a name out there that is a definitive upgrade (Taylor would have been one). However, it feels like the program trajectory needs a change and I’m not sure Tom is the one to make those changes.
I would love nothing more than to have Tom get the ship turned around and handoff to Spencer following his Olympic Gold. I’ve been wishful thinking with Iowa for a long time, but the results just haven’t been there.
I don’t know that there is a name out there that is a definitive upgrade (Taylor would have been one). However, it feels like the program trajectory needs a change and I’m not sure Tom is the one to make those changes.
I would love nothing more than to have Tom get the ship turned around and handoff to Spencer following his Olympic Gold. I’ve been wishful thinking with Iowa for a long time, but the results just haven’t been there.
Oh what the heck, I'll place a vote using the existing options. But my main thought is that we DEFINITELY need some immediate/meaningful change this offseason, at least at the Asst. level (yes, I know many of you think TnT will ONLY accept 100% yes men, no need to say again). And with TnT presumably? done in a couple years anyway, you start full search now. If we can truly get a big name who can bring in top assistants, you do it as soon as that option is willing. If not, you wait until that truly better option surfaces, be that 1, 2... years.
leave it to MSU to create the most verbose poll in the history of internet polls.
All these options stink.
Our wrestling product has gotten stale, unimaginative, and crucial current era skills are not being developed well enough. Fans have grown apathetic, and seem content to take their *** whopping year end and year out.
sometimes a change is needed in thought process, and culture. I feel that is where we currently are. Stuck wrestling like it’s 2005, not like what it’s become now.
Our wrestling product has gotten stale, unimaginative, and crucial current era skills are not being developed well enough. Fans have grown apathetic, and seem content to take their *** whopping year end and year out.
sometimes a change is needed in thought process, and culture. I feel that is where we currently are. Stuck wrestling like it’s 2005, not like what it’s become now.
Continue if you are happy with participation ribbons, potential All American's & "good room guys"
Not wearing a T-Shirt under a golf shirt proves he's willing to change.
We first need a poll to see who everyone votes for in terms of their favored HC replacement, whether we know if they'd be interested or not. And then a poll to estimate expected probability the top 3 candidates in previous poll would take the job, given existing funding levels.
During Gables 21 year run OSU only won 3 team titles. But they had 25 individual titles by 17 guys.
ISU had 18 individual titles by 13 guys
During Caels run starting in 2011 Iowa has 8 by six guys:
MM 2012
DSJ 2013
Ramos 2014
Clark 2017
Spencer 2018,19, 20
SB 2025
there is just no momentum. I know people get excited about the 27 and 28 classes, but to me that says it all. Fans are so starved for something positive they get excited about recruiting classes that should be the norm for Iowa.
I dont even care about catching PSU at this point. That's a wishful penny down a pipe dream.
Id just like to see them sign some elite hammers and wrestler aggressively. Maybe be kinda like thier coach?? Give me something to get excited about.
ISU had 18 individual titles by 13 guys
During Caels run starting in 2011 Iowa has 8 by six guys:
MM 2012
DSJ 2013
Ramos 2014
Clark 2017
Spencer 2018,19, 20
SB 2025
there is just no momentum. I know people get excited about the 27 and 28 classes, but to me that says it all. Fans are so starved for something positive they get excited about recruiting classes that should be the norm for Iowa.
I dont even care about catching PSU at this point. That's a wishful penny down a pipe dream.
Id just like to see them sign some elite hammers and wrestler aggressively. Maybe be kinda like thier coach?? Give me something to get excited about.
The biggest thing for me is lack of hope. I usually go to nationals and sometimes big tens. This year I have no desire to go and next year looks worse. Bassett would have provided some hope. Add Miller in the following year and you could see some hope. In 2 years could have seen Bassett, Miller, Ferrari as potential finalists. Add in growth from deluca, Reuters, Luddington, etc and maybe one more potential finalists. With brands this year and next there just is little hope. A new coach at least brings hope of potential.
I mean this is a tough poll to answer without knowing who the guy is. Is it an established developer (Robie) who will also probably bring some guys from his prior school?
Is it a guy who doesn’t have HC experience who may plan to build mostly through HS recruiting?
It also depends when it happens. If it happens this year coming off a 6-7th place finish then yeah I think either guy has a chance to do better if they generate enough hype to get some portal guys. Maybe Brands gets some portal guys that hit and a healthy squad next year finishes 3rd. That may be tougher to immediately outperform.
Is it a guy who doesn’t have HC experience who may plan to build mostly through HS recruiting?
It also depends when it happens. If it happens this year coming off a 6-7th place finish then yeah I think either guy has a chance to do better if they generate enough hype to get some portal guys. Maybe Brands gets some portal guys that hit and a healthy squad next year finishes 3rd. That may be tougher to immediately outperform.
I gave a ton of options because I DID NOT want it to be a “push” poll and Spooner STILL complained that it was.
But, hey it garnered a like from Tarp so too bad for you, buckaroo!
New or same doesn't matter without $.
We have what one real source the top two have more.
I will admit money that went into the new facility was suppose to attract recruits it just didn't happen. Everyone else took there money and put it into bags. Well we lost on that one.
The start is to get more dollars from donors/alumni to give to student athletes (if there still called that). How does that work in the Grey area don't know, but someone should look into it.
We have what one real source the top two have more.
I will admit money that went into the new facility was suppose to attract recruits it just didn't happen. Everyone else took there money and put it into bags. Well we lost on that one.
The start is to get more dollars from donors/alumni to give to student athletes (if there still called that). How does that work in the Grey area don't know, but someone should look into it.
In your defense, it might not be a push poll. It might just be terrible.
Because it shows a TON of people on here think exactly what I said to you? Which, of course, is why I made it in the first place…
Huh, pretty sure everything you just typed fits into one of the 1st two options I gave...
This poll didn't even ask the right question. And never mind the awkward/confusing attempt at separating coaching from results.
What was the right question? The EXACT reason I made the poll in the FIRST PLACE was because you said NO ONE was saying replacing Brands would automatically get them a better coach.....So far, 73 of the 110 votes say EXACTLY that. With another 3 just saying Brands should be gone even though they wouldn't get a better coach....
What you claimed is below.
Your question was ambiguous and awkward. This isn't that hard, but you've somehow managed to make it that way.
(Reading this quote, I once again find it funny that you're pretending there haven't been endless threads over the years centered around how to make Iowa better, but I digress.)
How about...
"Will Iowa automatically become a much better wrestling program simply by firing Brands, regardless of his replacement?"
A) Yes
B) No
Yes, assuming those doing the hiring do their due diligence and makes the right hire.
If their goal is to find the best candidate with significant name recognition, strong personal wrestling accomplishments both at ncaa and world level, a commitment to having a strong staff with a variety of talents, a commitment to help build an elite HWC, and an intense desire to bring championship level wrestling back to Iowa, then again yes, the team will improve.
If their goal is to find the best candidate with significant name recognition, strong personal wrestling accomplishments both at ncaa and world level, a commitment to having a strong staff with a variety of talents, a commitment to help build an elite HWC, and an intense desire to bring championship level wrestling back to Iowa, then again yes, the team will improve.
Agreed, but a lot of "ifs" there. Without a huge money (and time) investment, this could be a longer, trickier, and rockier road than a lot of us anticipate.
I am sorry, but you have to be close to fully brain dead to say that is ambiguous or awkward. It is as straight forward as it gets:
1st part: Do you believe? This is asking your opinion. It is as straightforward as it gets.
2nd part: Firing Brands will result in..... This is a pure causal premise. By firing Brands the results will be.....
3rd part: a better coach and better results. Again, as straightforward as it can be. Will you get a better coach and results by firing Brands? Even a blind monkey reading it in braille shouldn't have difficulty understanding the question.....
After that I gave the 1st option as: Yes, immediately. Anyone that answered that 100% fits into my argument. Option 2 and 3 also fit into my argument, they 100% believe the next coach will automatically be better, but it will take a bit of time for the results to improve.
Simply put, this poll 100% proves you were dead wrong and now you are parsing as much as humanly possible. I am not surprised...
It's just stale old bread. Besides the brief 2020 and 2021 years it's been the same crap with the same problems every year since 2010. There is absolutely nothing the current staff can or will do that is going to change that. It's rinse and repeat. The fact they were awful at recruiting from 2010 to the Lee years and then went right back to sucking *** at recruiting after that is infuriating. Tom's last tournament is 2028 without an extension no matter what so the group of wrestlers he finally decided to recruit won't be much of a factor anyway. It a lame duck situation.
It's impossible to answer correctly without knowing who they get to replace them. The Brands are legends in the sport, but the sport has passed them by and it's time for them to ride off into the sunset or at least to a more ceremonial role. As far as immediate improvement goes, assuming they get a top tier candidate more in touch with modern wrestling, training, and recruiting, the impact will be immediate (and given that you have pretty strong recruiting classes coming, you should want the new guy in place for their whole time at Iowa). If the new hire is just another Gable school retread, then it will be more of the same and you might as well keep the Brands.
The question was framed the way it was for a very specific reason. Many on here were flat out saying that firing Brands would automatically make them better. Because it is Iowa, they WILL get a better coach and, inevitably, better results.
Regardless of our differences, your response is very levelheaded and a take I would expect from someone on the outside looking in. But, again, I wasn't looking for your type of response. I wanted to specifically point out those rabid, anti-Brands posters that think HE is the problem easily fixed by firing him...
He is the problem, though, it's just not "easily fixed" by firing him. As long as the Brands are there, they will continue to slowly fade from the top of the sport. Regardless, you can't just grab anyone off the street and expect they will be better. Iowa (the school, the team, and the fans) expects elite results, and should given the history. The program has also been fiercely loyal to "their guys" to a fault, so I don't know whether to expect that they will make the right hire who is not also part of the problem.
Again, I may disagree with your overall take on Brands, but we are in agreement that replacing them with someone better is NOT the automatic many on here think and THAT was all I was pushing for in this poll...