So don’t even try to do non NIL things better? Just quit?
We are deluding ourselves
- Thread starter RU677381
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No? Didn’t say that
just saying there’s a never ending opinion on here that NIL either doesn’t matter or that we can just straight up overcome it by sheer will
hawk laid it out that 30+ teams with more NIL than Rutgers missed the Tournament and I named exactly THREE that had the same or less NIL than us
I don’t look at NIL as a money problem I see it as equivalent to a talent deficit
Your margin for error with limited resources is almost 0
I agree and disagree. I have not liked Knight's so-called offensive sets since the beginning. Too much standing around, basic screens at the elbow, and passing the ball around the perimeter as the clock runs down. Give me Matt Painter's offense, Dan Hurley's offense, and Rick Pitino's offense. More ball movement, weaves, cuts, and multiple screens. This is something I learned and played at the HS level. Never mind at the collegiate level.
Plus, spend most of your money on 5 players. Then get 3 defensive stoppers and fill out the roster with practice players. You can do this with 10 million.
I’m not disagreeing overall but this past year, the offense was about as good as could’ve been expected given the talent level and lack of front court. He deserves credit for bringing in Tariq.
I would go to 2.6 million for Ndongo and I don't even know if that would be enough.
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I think the opposite. If he were somehow able to win 19 or 20 I think he's here forever.
I’m talking about Knight. Not Pike. I think if we Dance Knight will get a HC offer. There’s no questioning his recruiting ability but the questions have been his offense. If we have a good year next year with Tariq leading the way he’s going to get that offer he’s been waiting for in my opinion.
If we could guarantee he’d come here right now I’d sign for 3M. It’s aggressive but I think that’s what we need to do. Swing for the moon for our top 2 dogs. Pay Tariq what it takes to retain him (I’m guessing that’s already worked out). Do this early and then you know what your working with for the rest.
St. Louis has better players. Avila is better than anyone on RU's roster.
You missed my point… there’s an argument being made that because a lot of team missed the tournament with large NIL that NIL doesn’t matter
I pointed out 3 at large teams total that had questionable NIL resources
I have no doubt saint louis and ucf have better rosters than Rutgers but the point I was making is it is exceedingly difficult to do anything consistently without at least competitive resources
You missed my point. I didn’t say because Indiana had more NIL that NIL didn’t matter. I used that as an example of just Throwing money at it isn’t the end all be all. You also have to do the non NIL things at a high level too.
The hope and goal for Zinn is to get us into that the fat part of the bell curve of NIL spending. As long as we are in the ballpark for spending, with good coaching, we should be a bubble team.
You're missing the point....how many are equal or ahead in terms of metrics, which is what the NCAA uses to determine what teams are on the bubble??
No one said anything about hopeless.....I am saying that you and others believe you can skip steps without major NIL are somewhat out of touch with reality.
The amount of NIL determines how fast can a roster be retooled or rebuilt AND while retaining the players we want to keep.
In terms of Kenpom, RU, despite defeating Maryland twice, finished behind Maryland on most metrics.....which doesn't mean much if both are well under .500, but accounts for the current roster strength against all competitors.
We are ahead of Utah Penn State, Washington State, Boston College and Georgia Tech as of today.....thats 5 out of 35 or so schools we are competing against.
To think it can be done with 8M in NIL, isn't really happening IMO. Can we improve with more NIL.....100% absolutely.....but this notion that Pike is getting fired and Kelli Zinn has authority to eat 16M after next year, AND NIL north of 12M for a new coach AND another 12M to 15M for new coaching staff.......even in a conservative position, thats spending 40M between a new coach and paying Pike over the next 4 years (Pike buyout AND NIL for 1 year ans 4 to 5 years on a new staff.
I dont quite understand the level of delusion involved with RU fans thinking we have even mid-level NIL for football or hoops.
We are currently projected with a Vegas total wins for Football at 4.5 wins.....and we just finished a basketball season where 5 major media sources either had RU 16th, 17th or 18th out of 18 teams. ....we finished 14th, which may not seem like much, but speaks to the coaching apparently not being the issue.
If you are picked for 17th and finish 14th......and if you were favored in just 2 of 22 B1G games and win SEVEN, that says it is NOT the coaching staff that is the issue......there has to be roster management and talent added in order to climb into the Top half in the B1G.
I gave you 30+ teams with more NIL and the answer you come up with is one school that was in the Crown tournament last year and is severely an overachiever in Year 6 under Hoiberg. I think he runs an excellent system and Nebraska has zero NCAA wins in their history.
I could easily argue that 2019-20, 2020-21 and 2021-22 with Pike is a trend line that Nebraska is on right now.....the difference is there was no NIL in place then for RU and essentially we are starting now......Nebraska has had NIL or donors for decades and is just not getting going with Hoops. How fans fail to see these things is bizarre.
And 1 out of 32 teams as an example.....?? Does that mean all other 31 programs should point to an isolated example like Nebraska, for 1 year???
Next year, someone else with be an aberration and then another one-off will happen.
Anyone can build a solid team for 1 year, but to sustain success requires NIL.
Try like crazy but you need a lot of luck to make it happen without NIL. The focus for the ADs office should be 100% on raising NIL (and Zinn is already there thank goodness). The coaches / GM should be focused on building and coaching the roster.
The goalposts officially moved
Wonder what they will be a year from now
Wonder what they will be a year from now
The problem is, RU has never gotten close to 8M, so if we leapfrog to 10M, it would be the 1st year we have decent resources.
It is up to Kelli Zinn to not mislead the fanbase on what's taking place. We were told money was raised and Schiano provided the 18th ranked B1G transfer class out of 18 B1G schools this past winter......that is not my ranking, it is TOS ranking of portal additions.
So.....are you saying less than 90 days after Schiano essentially finished dead last in Portal class ranking, that we should expect Pike to be provided funding that is where exactly???
I am a common sense person....and every player listed on The Round Table was either a mid major or 80% were mid major potential options.
Is this something that logically indicates funding that lands multiple starters better than Tariq Francis in the portal, for the front court or backcourt??
Just because we lucked out with Francis and found a solid piece in Buchanan, doesn't mean we had money for a quality big and we wound up with Baye Fall.....
I think all things considered, we were VERY fortunate this season wasnt ths Craig Littlepage or Eddie Jordan levels many predicted on here. So, it logically means that talent, size and athleticism is needed and that costs money in the market to compete with 60 to 70 other Power 4 programs.....or does that not make sense???
If it’s anything less than making the tourney or literally being squarely on the first four out bubble at worst then fans have lost the plot and phoned it in on real expectations
you also have to meet expectations with the reality pike is in year 11… someone said oh buzz Williams had a horrible year. He left Texas in the middle of the portal and obviously was going to struggle
they will undoubtedly be better next year as he is a far superior coach to pike
what is your expectation?
Agreed- making the tourney is the expectation. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Finish top half in the league and you’re in
$$$-NIL, NIL, NIL lol.
I've said it before.. Just tell our NIL sponsors to give $1mm to each of 10 B1G teams and buy the 10 - 10 record. They can forfeit lol. Pike can get another 10 OOC and finish with 20+ lol.
Heck, we buy wins in football..
Of course this isnt serious but my gosh thd coaching doesn't matter crowd.
I bet if you spent $8mm on NIL and $6mm on a new coach we'd do better than average.
I've said it before.. Just tell our NIL sponsors to give $1mm to each of 10 B1G teams and buy the 10 - 10 record. They can forfeit lol. Pike can get another 10 OOC and finish with 20+ lol.
Heck, we buy wins in football..
Of course this isnt serious but my gosh thd coaching doesn't matter crowd.
I bet if you spent $8mm on NIL and $6mm on a new coach we'd do better than average.
This is Ridic ….
we keep asking ourselves to win and out coach the other coaches in this league on a regular basis with less resources .
This is not happening in the big ten (or SEC for that matter) ….who all have HIGH end coaches as well, and maybe better than ours
We are expecting pike (or schiano or any of their successors or other sports ) to out coach 17 other good coaches year after year to make up for a roster that has less to soend than their competition ???
yes it can happen for a year and maybe a for a couple of year stetch .
Perpeptually….NO EFFING WAY
I have my issues with pike and Greg and how they run parts of the program …but they are being sent to a fight with sticks and stones when the other teams have guns and grenades …
So pardon me for being realistic …on what is possible given what I believe we
Have as resources versus our competition ….
It’s not what I want ….but it is probably what will be until we get competitive resources.
we will know soon if we have competitive resources in the portal . It will be obvious by who we pursue and who else is pursuing them
Baye would be a great add and Pikes done well going after guys who were close to joining but opted elsewhere. Add him and go all in for a 5, and next season could be exciting.
Love Pike, but agree. It’s tourney or bust. Obviously stuff, injuries, committee wtfs, etc. happen during the season - but I’m not front loading excuses. He’s proven he can make a team that’s better than the sum of its parts - but in this new era with such high turnover, you don’t have 2-3 seasons to make it work and that’s my biggest concern about his coaching ability.
I’ll feel much better with 10 million and a 0-4 million gap than I do at 3.5 million with a 7-10 million gap. At least we’re middle class and not poverty anymore.
All of that makes sense.
If NIL/money is such a limiting factor in team success then the HC and staff don't get to be paid as a Top 20 staff.
I know it's Hobbs fault and Pike isn't going to say "no thanks" to a raise and extention.
But if the expectations are "maybe be on the bubble once every 4 years" like a mid/low major then the coach should be paid as such.
Context matters. That contract extension looked good at the time - just landed Ace and were a shoe in for Dylan (giving us the 1 and 2 recruits before cooper reclassified), top 20 team, had taken down #1 again (on the road no less), Mawot was looking like DPOY, and were 8-3 in conference - and Pike could have been poached with that resume (at Rutgers!).
Yeah, things have fallen off - partly due to Pike, large partly due to NIL, partly just plain bad luck. Hoping he can get back to it.
What ?
it is the exact opposite .
You have to pay a coach MORE to justify the risk they take taking a job that has less resources to compete than the competition because it is harder to be successful …..
I was saying this BEFORE NIL when facilities and the bag were our limiting factor….that they only way we could compete is pay for coaching , a much lower cost way to try to make up for sone of the lack of resources ….
Of course coaching matters but over the course of a season the worst roster in the league Big Ten isn’t going to finish in the top half. No matter how good the coaching is.
OK, if its all about the money, why are we not better with a staff ranked 18th in pay - should at least make up for some of the lesser talent.
We are not asking him to outcoach 17 coaches. I am fine with him finishing 9th in the conference (that means he outcoached 9 coaches) and getting us an NCAA bid. Allegedly we have an NIL amount for next year that is lower middle of the packish within the conference (On the TKR pod they said maybe we have an amount around 11th-13th range out of 18 teams) so asking Pike to finish 9th and get a bid is not an insane ask. We’re not expecting him to have us at the top of the conference. I am sure Keli expects Pike to make the NCAAs next year and if he doesn’t I expect he is no longer the coach. I am also sure that Pike also realizes how important next season is in order for him to continue as head coach.
I’m concerned by the reported target strategy on the podcast to target a PG, wing and center. I don’t think we’re getting a “good” PG, and we never have luck with the sharp shooting wings we select either (sans cam Spencer).
I want 3 physical high major front court players prioritized - one a clear center and one with some complimentary ball skills. We should be able to significantly upgrade the defense in the portal. I fear that if we go on a shopping spree again to “upgrade everything” we won’t improve enough at anything to make an impact.
I want 3 physical high major front court players prioritized - one a clear center and one with some complimentary ball skills. We should be able to significantly upgrade the defense in the portal. I fear that if we go on a shopping spree again to “upgrade everything” we won’t improve enough at anything to make an impact.
Really? Hasn't improved much, really isn't a center, doesn't step outside if hes a 4. Not sure on his defense.
I haven’t watched him that much admittedly but I’ve seen enough to feel confident he’d be a massive upgrade over Grant and could play either the 4 or the 5. I’d rather pay him and another Big guy who are starter level to use interchangeably without the other in the rotation and not shell out 600K for a back up Big that will likely turn out like Baye (unless Ogbole decides to stay but I’m assuming that’s already decided based on what Pike said). We’re going to get garbage for the back up role and would likely overpay for it.