Kentucky against the Field

Wayne Dougan

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Aug 11, 2025
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The reason I lash out and am get so angry is that last part; that Pope will pull a Tubby and do exactly enough to skate by while not actually succeeding.

Tubby's first two years were really good, his next three years were okay, but then the next three years were fantastic. Then two years of suck. At this point we'd kill to have that play out again. Put some respect on his name.

Also, Pope is nowhere near a top 15-20 coach. I don’t even know if he’s 30th. His record isn’t even really mid. I’d have to go look, but no way he’s anywhere near 15. There’s no way.

Also to add, if he had a top 3 class coming in, I’d say yes a 3rd year is warranted. It’s because of his really bad recruiting mixed with his coaching record or 13 years that I wouldn’t wait if I were Kentucky. Maybe another program not here. Maybe that explains the position in another light.

I said 15-30, which consistently aligns to his records and seedings.
 
Jul 30, 2024
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Kentucky is very mid this year. Pope will get his third year because we have an AD who is on his way out, and even if Mitch was staying, he would keep Pope on for one more year.

That being said, Pope needs to get to at least the elite eight next year and start showing that he can recruit at a high level. If either of those two things doesn't happen, he will be shown the door.
I was wrong so I redacted my post.
 
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SenseMaker_Cats

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Jul 3, 2025
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Tubby's first two years were really good, his next three years were okay, but then the next three years were fantastic. Then two years of suck. At this point we'd kill to have that play out again. Put some respect on his name.



I said 15-30, which consistently aligns to his records and seedings.
That 2003 team is one of my favorites. I’m sure I’m not alone on that. That second half at Vandy spurred on a bunch of butt whoopings. Including #1 Florida. “Walsh is…….”
 

notFromhere

Heisman
Sep 7, 2016
22,588
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I’ve used the comparison to football. Could you see Alabama hiring a guy with Popes record? 12 years, no bowls, .500 against good teams, 63% winning % relative to football, never recruited top players in 12 years? I mean no other basketball blue blood would, including Kentucky, had he not played here. Mark wouldn’t have even been looked at at all. It’s one of the most bizarre hirings in the history of college sports.

Yeah, that would be like hiring some high school coach with no college experience and who plays people no one in the conference would ever play. It's insane
 

Zuma75

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Mar 19, 2017
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Kentucky is very mid this year. Pope will get his third year because we have an AD who is on his way out, and even if Mitch was staying, he would keep Pope on for one more year.

That being said, Pope needs to get to at least the elite eight next year and start showing that he can recruit at a high level. If either of those two things doesn't happen, he will be shown the door.
Recruit, and win BIG next year. And show some stability while doing it. Look like you got this under control.
 

Zuma75

All-Conference
Mar 19, 2017
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Semantics. By NCAA seeding standards those aren’t bad losses. Obviously the way in which we lost those games is ridiculously bad, but the loss itself isn’t “bad.” Put another way, although we lost those games badly, they aren’t bad losses.

Again, it’s all just semantics.
The wild swings are part of what people are concerned about. They scream "I don't have any control over this beast, I'm just hanging on." Hard to have confidence, when the bus is swerving all over the road, that the person behind the wheel knows how to drive the thing.

When you average out the ups and the downs, it maybe looks a little less bad than it looked while watching it happen. But the end result is still not good - 10th place in SEC, lost in quarterfinals of SECT, 7 seed in NCAAT.

One more chance to change the narrative on this season ...
 

Goingfor9

All-Conference
Jan 27, 2003
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Semantics. By NCAA seeding standards those aren’t bad losses. Obviously the way in which we lost those games is ridiculously bad, but the loss itself isn’t “bad.” Put another way, although we lost those games badly, they aren’t bad losses.

Again, it’s all just semantics.
Losing at home to Missouri and Georgia for that matter were bad losses idc what the ncaa says.
 

Son_Of_Saul

Heisman
Dec 7, 2007
45,127
97,968
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What are you basing this on? If Kentucky makes an elite eight but doesn’t land the recruiting class y’all want, no, Pope won’t get fired after year three — I’d bet a $1000 on it. That’s really just a preposterous claim, especially when it’s entirely unknowable — the athletic director that will be making those decision isn’t even determined or hired yet.

If you say “I want him fired if he doesn’t earn X or Y level of recruiting class”…fine, but making stuff up and talking definitive about it is incredible.
Maybe revisit the difference between the words "either" and "both" or ask for clarification before going full knee-jerk reaction lecture mode.
 

Goingfor9

All-Conference
Jan 27, 2003
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I will never argue whether or not Pope should have been hired. That is a completely different issue. I am only arguing that it is unheard of to fire a coach after 2 seasons who made the tournament unless there was cause. I was digging and looking for examples and couldn't find any.

Firing him would trigger another buyout and be starting over from scratch. It is easy for RR posters to scream, "Fire the coach!" But, they aren't the ones who have spent millions in NIL and salary, etc. Maybe you guys can convince Mark Cuban to be a UK booster and get it done.
Well that’s the same next year with the buyout. Popes buy out is small n comparison to stoops and this bb program is much more important. You guys act like we have a poor impoverished University and athletic dept. we just outspent every team by a lot. And you see in the pros guys get one year two years if they’re not getting it done quickly, the gone college now is not the same. It was 30 years ago, so the rules have changed quite a bit and everybody’s like comparing Matt Doherty or all these other coaching decision whatever it doesn’t matter those are different days different times you can buy a team day one you can have the best team in the country. I mean this team on paper that we have was supposed to be a top 10 team Kentucky fans.oh my gosh we’re a title contender. Our coach is telling us it’s a Ferrari I mean come on people wake up you guys really gotta wake up when you say it’s not about the coach or about getting a new coach. This isn’t old school basketball. This is a period where college basketball has become pro I mean it’s that simple. You guys are comparing apples and oranges. You know when you can come in and you can spend the kind of money that Pope spent on roster the last two years end up with freaking close to 30 losses over two years no it’s not you gotta go man. I’m sorry. Do you want a game in the tournament here or there whatever big money is being spent on these players for one year runs, and Pope doesn’t have it man it’s any pro team would’ve already fired him by now if it were a Lakers or Celtics, he will be gone well where are the Lakers or Celtics of college basketball. The pay for play college basketball now and we’ve paid out the wazoo. Barney was supposed to be some sort of financial whisperer. I thought that’s his job. He gave 60 million to science to say we can’t afford buyouts is hogwash plenty of money there now the will is a different story. But when it comes to money, we’ve got plenty man. We’re a wash in it according to the Barney fans.
 

Wayne Dougan

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Aug 11, 2025
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Semantics. By NCAA seeding standards those aren’t bad losses. Obviously the way in which we lost those games is ridiculously bad, but the loss itself isn’t “bad.” Put another way, although we lost those games badly, they aren’t bad losses.

Again, it’s all just semantics.
Correct... it's like when we lost to Arkansas in the 94-95 season. A truly great game where we went down in OT 94-92. That's not a bad loss at all.

Losing to a scrub team by 1 = BAD LOSS
Getting blown out by a good team when you're UK and it looks like you should be playing D2 = BAD LOSS
 

notFromhere

Heisman
Sep 7, 2016
22,588
67,503
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Tubby's first two years were really good, his next three years were okay, but then the next three years were fantastic. Then two years of suck. At this point we'd kill to have that play out again.

Um...No.

His first year was good. Then he had some great players over the years that he tried to play Tubby-ball with. Loved the players he did get to come here, but he underachieved. Money and pride motivated him, even though the marketing said different. Great at Xs and Os, as long as he wasnt running the show top to bottom.

He'd be a great tactical asistant and would be worth half of a HC salary. Not so good as a HC or recruiter (or an OC if basketball had that position- which I think they should.

......

I don't think we hang out in the same state if you think we would kill for what we had with Tubby Smith. One thing is that we don't have the program RickP left us with. We have the decimation that the snake oil salesman leaves behind. CCC got some kids to buy into his brand and took that brand with him, while at the same time keeping really good KY kids from wanting or being able to play here.

Tubby made us competitive after 2008. No one I know wants to settle for that. They want to win championships and contend for those, not just get some Elite Eights and a few conference tourneys. They don't want a coach that let's off the gas. They don't want a coach that runs out the clock. They want a great, all-around coach that develops talent and recruits well, and can coach their way into wins they shouldn't get.

Maybe you're like that too and I misunderstood, but the impression you just gave is what everyone I'm hearing from doesn't want. Tubby is nice to some people and he won a title here. Thanks and all, but I don't want seconds of Tubby-ball because it got us nowhere after the developed kids left.

He had some great recruiting wins, but blew some true recruiting opportunities to wipe away their value over time.
 

Wayne Dougan

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Aug 11, 2025
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Um...No.

His first year was good. Then he had some great players over the years that he tried to play Tubby-ball with. Loved the players he did get to come here, but he underachieved. Money and pride motivated him, even though the marketing said different. Great at Xs and Os, as long as he wasnt running the show top to bottom.

He'd be a great tactical asistant and would be worth half of a HC salary. Not so good as a HC or recruiter (or an OC if basketball had that position- which I think they should.

......

I don't think we hang out in the same state if you think we would kill for what we had with Tubby Smith. One thing is that we don't have the program RickP left us with. We have the decimation that the snake oil salesman leaves behind. CCC got some kids to buy into his brand and took that brand with him, while at the same time keeping really good KY kids from wanting or being able to play here.

Tubby made us competitive after 2008. No one I know wants to settle for that. They want to win championships and contend for those, not just get some Elite Eights and a few conference tourneys. They don't want a coach that let's off the gas. They don't want a coach that runs out the clock. They want a great, all-around coach that develops talent and recruits well, and can coach their way into wins they shouldn't get.

Maybe you're like that too and I misunderstood, but the impression you just gave is what everyone I'm hearing from doesn't want. Tubby is nice to some people and he won a title here. Thanks and all, but I don't want seconds of Tubby-ball because it got us nowhere after the developed kids left.

He had some great recruiting wins, but blew some true recruiting opportunities to wipe away their value over time.

Um, yes. Tubby won the title in year 1. Elite 8 loss against Mich St who won it all in year 2.

In year 5, he went 32-4 (16-0) and lost in the elite 8 due to Bogans being hurt.
In year 6, he went 27-5 and finished 2nd in the nation for the regular season.
In year 7, he went 28-6 and finished 7th in the nation.

From where we are now, we would kill for a title and 4 other top 10 finishes from Pope.
 

megablue

Heisman
Oct 2, 2012
15,515
15,551
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Some things I found interesting looking at the NCAA Tournament Field.

* Of Kentucky's 13 losses, all except the "stolen" Auburn game were against Tournament Teams (Auburn was apparently first team out.)
* The Cats lost to these seeds: 1,1,1,3,3,4,5,6,6,8,10,10. The Cats won seven games against tourney tesms, seeded, 4,5,5,6,6,10,11.
* Kentucky played 19 games against NCAA tournament teams. Overall the Cats were 7-12 against teams in the tournament, with nine losses and five wins to teams seeded 6 or better.

Not a notable season by Kentucky standards.

But If you are looking for positives, at least for the first game: It was a very tough schedule, and the Cats had no really terrible losses. The only team to beat Kentucky that was not superior to Santa Clara (at least based on computer metrics and seeding) was Auburn @ Auburn, and we all know how that game went. Kentucky beat five teams that are seeded higher than Santa Clara.
I see the logic, of course, but that also means that if/when we lose, we will lose to a tournament team again ... 13 losses to tournament teams !!
Actually, Auburn is also a tournament team, albeit the NIT ... fwiw ... so you can make it 14 losses to "tournament" teams.
 

notFromhere

Heisman
Sep 7, 2016
22,588
67,503
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Um, yes. Tubby won the title in year 1.

Lol. Yep. Everyone is aware. Do you read posts your reply to...?

Elite 8 loss against Mich St who won it all in year 2.

In year 5, he went 32-4 (16-0) and lost in the elite 8 due to Bogans being hurt.
In year 6, he went 27-5 and finished 2nd in the nation for the regular season.
In year 7, he went 28-6 and finished 7th in the nation.

From where we are now, we would kill for a title and 4 other top 10 finishes from Pope.

Again, I don't see anyone that would be happy with the subsequent years. NO ONE is going to kill anything except a fifth if that's all we're shooting for...

Don't use the words if you can't back it up. No one is killing to return to where he put us nor where he left us. No one. Where Pope is isn't relevant. People want better than both. The way we played the last few years under RickP is where the high bar is set whether you like it or not, and we shouldn't settle for less than that.

They just need to find THAT coach that can do that here.
 
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May 4, 2015
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This is the real danger of that Third Year - so many people are failing to grasp it.

Let’s wait and see if that gangrene improves on it’s own
Yeah but they don’t see it.

fine let him get a third… fourth… fifty year to prove himself. He’s proven himself already to me: 11 years coaching and zero post-season success. An average of 63% wins. Like the guy but he has shown himself to be nothing but midmajor material
 

Drcatfan

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Apr 14, 2015
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I just hope Pope get $15M to spend next year and no injuries or excuses. Let it be a make or break year. He's getting a third season for sure, so I just don't want this to drag to a 4th, 5th, 6th due to excuses or slightly above mediocrity.
 

Wayne Dougan

Senior
Aug 11, 2025
306
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Lol. Yep. Everyone is aware. Do you read posts your reply to...?



Again, I don't see anyone that would be happy with the subsequent years. NO ONE is going to kill anything except a fifth if that's all we're shooting for...

Don't use the words if you can't back it up. No one is killing to return to where he put us nor where he left us. No one. Where Pope is isn't relevant. People want better than both. The way we played the last few years under RickP is where the high bar is set whether you like it or not, and we shouldn't settle for less than that.

They just need to find THAT coach that can do that here.
You're dumb as a brick. First, I said compared to what we're getting now. If you could guarantee a title and 3 elite 8s over the next 6 years you'd take it in a f'ing hearbeat.