Brands post B1G Tourney thoughts
- Thread starter BrianLafevre
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LOL....
Mitch is NOT much ahead in the record category. 21-0 with 8 Falls, 8 TF's and 5 MD's. NEITHER have had a close match.
Assuming the other you are saying is Barr, he is 19-0 with 5 Falls, 10 TF's and 4 MD's. Out of all the weights in DI, I would argue 197 is BY FAR the thinnest. He would have to absolutely DESTROY Elam before I would begin to consider him.
Look, I am not even saying that Mitch isn't the best wrestler currently in DI. Just going by the criteria AND how well Mendez is wresting THIS season, I think he is absolutely as deserving as Mitch, if not moreso.
As clarification, I actually believed Nolf should have won the Hodge in 2017 over Retherford. They had the same bonus rate and the ONLY guy he didn't bonus was Kemerer and both of those were not remotely close(8-2 and 9-4). That was the season where Retherford beat Sorenson 9-8 in OT tiebreakers and Collica 2-1.
It isn't an anti-PSU thing and it certainly isn't anti-Mitch thing. I just think that ALL of the criteria need to be weighed and the intangibles are currently in Mendez's favor. If Mendez barely gets by at NCAA's and Mitch cruises through, I would be fine with Mitch getting it without Mendez included...
2 guys have a 100% bonus rate. That's better. And not just nominally. Sure 197 is thin. But 165 is a better weight than 141.
It isn't a you win and get 100% for that category type of situation. They are both ahead by just raw numbers, but the difference is NOT much. When they are that close, the OTHER criteria are very important. Again, I am NOT the one that made the criteria. You may not like the criteria and seem to be ignoring what you don't like, but they ARE a part and I do not choose to ignore them...
Also, 165 may actually be tougher than 141. But, other than Caliendo who exactly has Mitch wrestled this year that qualifies? So far, his toughest matches were Paddy Gallagher....
As I said, if Mitch runs the gauntlet in dominant fashion at NCAA's and Mendez does not, I am happy to drop Mendez down. But, so far, I do NOT think Mitch has been more dominant than Mendez. Mendez is wrestling the best he has by far and it has been incredibly impressive to watch...
Gable was a prime example of that. His public speaking from college to retirement improved exponentially.
There is a VAST difference between the sole intent being to speak publicly vs. HAVING to speak publicly about things you clearly don't want to say...
Hodge Criteria from their website and stats for Mitch and Jesse so far this season:
1. Number of pins: MM 8 Falls, JM 6 Falls
2. Dominance: MM 100% Bonus, JM 86% Bonus
3. Past Credentials: Career NCAA Record MM 75-1, JM 99-14: MM (1x NCAA Champ, 2x Finalist, 2 pending) JM (2x NCAA Champ, 1 pending)
4. Quality of competition: 165# field is widely viewed as a stronger weight than the 141# field
5. Sportsmanship/citizenship: Tie? How is this quantified if there are no glaring issues?
6. Heart; Tie? How is this quantified?
According to the criteria up to this point, I don't think there is much of an argument for Mendez over Mitch, but we will have the full picture in a couple weeks.
1. Number of pins: MM 8 Falls, JM 6 Falls
2. Dominance: MM 100% Bonus, JM 86% Bonus
3. Past Credentials: Career NCAA Record MM 75-1, JM 99-14: MM (1x NCAA Champ, 2x Finalist, 2 pending) JM (2x NCAA Champ, 1 pending)
4. Quality of competition: 165# field is widely viewed as a stronger weight than the 141# field
5. Sportsmanship/citizenship: Tie? How is this quantified if there are no glaring issues?
6. Heart; Tie? How is this quantified?
According to the criteria up to this point, I don't think there is much of an argument for Mendez over Mitch, but we will have the full picture in a couple weeks.
I have no problem with what Tom was trying to say (or not say), but the stunted word delivery, constant eye darting, facial expressions, rocking back and forth, lack of concentration, and voice inflection was something to behold. I actually felt bad for him, looked very painful.
If you don't dig deeper into each category, you shouldn't have a vote to begin with. It isn't a computer spitting out the winner.
1. 8-6 is close. and, so far, it can absolutely be argued that Mendez has wrestled a harder schedule, even if 165 is stronger as a whole. Again, after Caliendo twice, which is pretty much equal to Hardy twice, his next toughest opponent was Paddy Gallagher.
2.) It isn't just about flat bonus rate. MM barely got MD's on Gallagher, Brignola and Caliendo. If you watch the matches they weren't much more dominant than the 5-1 over Ech or the 7-2 and 4-1's over Hardy.
3.) Past Credentials: No matter how you slice it, if they both win, Mendez will have won 3 in a row to Mitch's 2.
4.) Quality of competition: This will come down to how the NCAA Tournament plays out. Again, 165 may be tougher as a whole(looking at the Intermat rankings I am not sure it is past the top 3 or 4 guys), but Mitch hasn't wrestled Blaze, Ruiz, Locket, or Bianchi. Meanwhile, Mendez has wrestled 4 of the other top 7 guys at the weight.
5.) Sportsmanship/citizenship: So far, Mendez has been the consummate leader of a flagship program. The way they portray themselves is night and day. Now, I am not saying anything bad about Mitch, but he is quirky as hell. Not sure how you call this a tie.
6.)Heart: I get that this one is 100% subjective. This one comes down to simply how you feel about each person and is impossible to not come from some sort of bias.
Mind you, I am not saying Mendez is clearly ahead and even said from the beginning I would be perfectly fine if they shared. I just think a 3xer, finishing his career, should get a slight edge...
You listed the old criteria. It was changed a few years ago. Past credentials was removed.
Home / Hodge Trophy Voting
Hodge Trophy Voting
Hodge Trophy Voting Criteria:1 – Record
2 – Dominance/Bonus-Point Percentage
3 – Quality of Competition
4 – Sportsmanship
The hodge is Mesenbrink next topic. Sure that’s not as fun to talk about but it’s the truth.
Then somebody needs to tell the Dan Hodge Foundation to update it: THE HODGE TROPHY | Hodge Foundation''
Without "past credentials" as a criteria, I would agree that Mitch, so far, is slightly more deserving...
Then perhaps the Dan Hodge Foundation needs to update their on-line presence. Below is copied right from their website:
THE HODGE TROPHY | Hodge Foundation:
Award Selection
Originally created to celebrate the pin in college wrestling, the Dan Hodge Trophy is based on seven criteria including record, a number of pins, dominance, past credentials, quality of competition, sportsmanship/citizenship, and heart.The trophy is based primarily on the results of a single season, but past accomplishments are considered as well, particularly in years where the competition is tighter.
Without past credentials, it probably is. However, Mendez has looked incredible this season and if he dominates the NCAA Tournament, he will have a very solid argument and WILL get some of the vote for sure...
Hardy has been absolutely destroyed twice by a true freshman and Ech is a one time AA. These guys are not close to being equal to Mikey imo. Mendez may very well win but I don't think he will like the result should he run into Vega. Vega is a way better version of Hardy.
I had Gable as a phys ed teacher @ Moo U. ( I transferred
), and I can vouch for this. He was maybe the least verbal person that I ever had as a instructor, but EXTREMELY focused.The simple fact is that Tom is what he is: a real & decent guy who cares about his wrestlers, but doesn't care about what other people think. His gifts are his authenticity, and never deviating from what he thinks is right. He won't cut it in the used car business (like Tan Tom), and he won't make it as a missionary (like Carl), nor as a wily poker player (maybe John Smith & others). Like many of us, the things that got him here are also the things that limit him when circumstances change.
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The communication with the team is nothing like you see when he does post match/meet/tournament interviews.
The staff is very close with the team (which the majority of D1 coaches are with their team) and there are no issues with communication.
Tom and Terry are honestly there for the guys, 24/7/365.
I would have loved to have seen a bunch of reporters try to interview Gable back in the day in the middle of a meet or directly after a dual or tournament.
Karl seems to have a look on his face like he already **** his pants and is enjoying the warmth in his trousers.My wife has walked by the tv a time or 2 and saw Terry watching a match, saw his face, and said something like "that guy looks like he really needs to take a ****".
Now Karl, he seems like a very calm guy....whose mentor is Jeffrey Dahmer.
Pretty sure they were both head coaches answering questions and speaking publicly. Dan would just think and then usually just answer the questions. Tom never feels he has to.
But before Iowa hires an "unproven" coach, that person would need to spend a year under Tom learning how to deal with things like this... or so we're told.
Did you just refer to Gable as Dan??
Who the F do you think you are?
Obviously, you're not a Hawkeye fan, because it's Gable and maybe Dan Gable but not Dan...
Seriously, what the hell?
There were some great articles at one time that detailed how Steve Marianetti prepared for and beat Lincoln in '95 (even typing that now 30+ years later and it still stings). Marianetti and the Ill coaches came in with a great game plan. Lincoln was different as a college wrestler defensively than Mess is though, he definitely left himself open quite a bit more b/c he always knew he could rally.
Sincere question- you reference the criteria posted on the Hodge Foundation website. Why provide primacy to this vs that posted by Win Magazine which created and annually administers the award? Win Magazine changed to the present four factor criteria in 2022 so it’s been used for the most recent 3 annual recognitions. Asking as I’m puzzled what prompts the extensive, detailed comparison of two great wrestlers on interesting but outdated criteria for Hodge award consideration.
https://share.google/GR4YAuytCEAUqF7v2
Maybe a little aggressive with "who the F do you think you are".
But seriously who refers to Gable as Dan??
I don’t vote for it and think win magazine is brutally bad. So I simply went off memory and then googled the hodge to verify. The Dan Hodge foundation came up and why would I think the place representing the guy the trophy is named after wouldn’t have it updated?
Hell, I even asked if they changed it and I didn’t see it early in the exchange. I was asked my opinion and gave it. I am entirely happy and content saying I didn’t know it was changed.
If you want to use it as a gotcha, please do. Regardless of what people may think I do NOT think I know everything and am happy to own when I am wrong!
With that said, I do think Mendez has had an incredible year and if he walks through NCAA’s a lot of people other than me will vote for him…
The last thing I care about from a coach is how they answer questions they don’t want to answer. Let’s not act like Cael is a great interview. He is basically as annoyed by it as Brands and always has been.But before Iowa hires an "unproven" coach, that person would need to spend a year under Tom learning how to deal with things like this... or so we're told.
He definitely had a great plan. He had a good enough tank to weather the storm and used Lincoln’s constant pressure against him.
Also, Steve was pretty damn good in his own right. He was the 2 seed for a reason. Although, he almost went out early to Cano…when you focus so hard on how to beat a specific person, it can be a distraction. luckily for him he got past it.
You are a pompous idiot. Since “Gable” is a friend I will call him Dan…so shut up!
Good thing it wasn’t Cael with all of those symptoms; Iron Hawk would have concluded that he was drugging.
Just screwing with you brother.
I like the discussion but in my opinion unless something crazy happens at NCAAs is MM’s to lose.
I agree if MM bonuses his way to a title which is very likely. I don’t recall a 100% bonus rate ever being achieved.
If he falls short of 100%, I think Mendes will get it or worst case co-winners. He’s just too highly thought of and has a strong case.
Please let the second scenario happen with Mendes as the sole winner. It would be hilarious after Cael’s recent comments on the hodge.
Please send vids of eloquently. Would love to see this treasure!