Official: New arena= no more Carmichael

[Carolina151]

Officially: Carolina WBB will no longer play games at Carmichael when the new arena is build. Whether that’s the Smith Center or a new 16K seat arena.

very, very disappointed in this. You get 5-6K for a game in Carmichael on a really good day vs a Top team. 5 or 6K in a new arena is virtually no home court advantage. The ~3K in the new arena wil sound and feel like COVID games.

Is it really about the money? Who is paying for a box seat at a WBB game. It’s nonsense.

 

[Jriv23]

I hope they will not let Carmichael go to waste. It is all about the money and those box seats. I hope one of the other teams can use this wonderful building.

 

[Carolina151]

I hope they will not let Carmichael go to waste. It is all about the money and those box seats. I hope one of the other teams can use this wonderful building.

What fans going to WBB games are buying or would be buying box seats? Have you seen the people going to our games. They’re years of supporters, elderly, younger and looking for cost-effective games to bring children too, and students.

moving to a new arena does nothing for our WBB program on game days.

 

[Shamrock15]

Gymnastics, volleyball, wrestling? What else?

 

[6string]

I’m a Class of 74 alum so Carmichael is really special to me as you might expect. I read the entire interview with CB and can see many of her points of view concerning space, recovery opportunities etc. But I can tell you there is no better home court advantage than when Carmichael is full and rocking. I think an opportunity was missed this year by not putting the students in the bleachers instead of my 73 year old back.

 

[bradarb08]

Facility wars. She said in a presser the entire team and staff can’t fit into the film room at the same time. Sucks to leave Carmichael… but if they can’t renovate to address it, what else do you do?

 

[SeaPinesHeel]

State seems to make it work in their #smallgym

 

[JOB1937]

Adam Lucas had previously noted WBB’s desire for a new arena. I just do not understand her thinking on this. It will ruin the game environment.

 

[TommyAshley]

This was in Greg Barnes’s article that ran on Tuesday here at IC. It has, not surprisingly, been ‘reported’ by other outlets since this article dropped.


UNC Launches Alumni Council for Basketball Arena
https://on3.com/teams/north-carolin...-alumni-council-basketball-arena-smith-center

 

[UNC76]

State seems to make it work in their #smallgym

While the seating capacity was greatly reduced, the square footage in Reynolds still is more that double that of Carmichael.

 

[3397char]

Not a fan of leaving Carmichael

 

[6string]

While the seating capacity was greatly reduced, the square footage in Reynolds still is more that double that of Carmichael.

Yeah at one time Reynolds seated 12,000 and they shrunk the seating down to I believe about 5500 so a lot of space there. I don’t know how usable or what they did with the areas where those extra seats used to be but Reynolds in general was a much bigger facility that at one time hosted a number of tournaments.

 

[6string]

Not a fan of leaving Carmichael

I certainly have mixed emotions about it. I want what is best for the program and if getting newer more advanced spaces is that, then okay. However, I love going back there and it can be such a home court advantage when rocking. Also thought it was neat that WBB had their own court. You have to wonder if they will continue to spend the money to maintain and operate the building for just a few sports. Future dorm space on that spot?

 

[tarboy]

They should give half the gym in Carmichael to the students and put the team benches and teams on that side of the court with the TV cameras filming them not all those empty seats we show now.

Seems like we could find a little space to give CB and the team the space they need for film study etc.

If you recall what the stands looked like at Syracuse that might be what the stands would look similar to
in the Dean Dome.

I am hoping they will ring the court with students in the new or remodeled gym. Allow the students to be spontaneous like we were when I sat in the bleachers in Carmichael back in the early 70's.

There was no talk about Cameron Crazies back then . We were louder and prouder.

 

[23UNC]

The key to a great environment is having students surrounding the court. You use South Carolina's method. If you want football or men's basketball tickets you have to attend women's sports games. I attended a women's soccer game at SC that had 3K-4K in the stands. 90% were students.

In a big arena you can black curtain off the upper deck if needed and try and fill the lower level.

 

[3397char]

Yeah at one time Reynolds seated 12,000 and they shrunk the seating down to I believe about 5500 so a lot of space there. I don’t know how usable or what they did with the areas where those extra seats used to be but Reynolds in general was a much bigger facility that at one time hosted a number of tournaments.

Reynold's was built long and skinny as a parade grounds and speech auditorium for the massive ROTC program at NCSU during WW2 as well as an agriculture exhibition space. It was not designed for basketball and it used to have something like 75% of its seats behind the end lines: horrible sight lines for everyone except the top donors. But that made it really easy to slice off the end and turn that into additional team facility space. Price tag: $35 Million.

Doing something similar at Carmichael would be really hard/expensive due to its shape with limited space created. Or it requires stealing more of Woollen Gym from students (which is not space "owned" by the Athletic Department; it is considered an academic building.) Or a new capital project outside the building footprint, say between Dorrance field and Carmichael where space is tight and it would be hard to gain much square footage without spending a ton of money.

 

[3397char]

I certainly have mixed emotions about it. I want what is best for the program and if getting newer more advanced spaces is that, then okay. However, I love going back there and it can be such a home court advantage when rocking. Also thought it was neat that WBB had their own court. You have to wonder if they will continue to spend the money to maintain and operate the building for just a few sports. Future dorm space on that spot?

The Athletic Department rarely concedes land to the academic side of UNC and vice-versa. I imagine that volleyball and gymnastics will stay there as long as the building does not require a massive maintenance upfit (perhaps wrestling too, but that is easy to move) . VB will probably grab the current WBB practice space and offices; functionally an upgrade for them. But the WBB locker room is too small for VB so maybe gymnastics moves in there instead?

There is no way that both MBB and WBB will share space with those sports at the new arena.

 

[UNC76]

In a big arena you can black curtain off the upper deck if needed and try and fill the lower level.

They did that for years in Greensboro for the ACC tourney.

 

[3397char]

They should give half the gym in Carmichael to the students and put the team benches and teams on that side of the court with the TV cameras filming them not all those empty seats we show now.

Seems like we could find a little space to give CB and the team the space they need for film study etc.

If you recall what the stands looked like at Syracuse that might be what the stands would look similar to
in the Dean Dome.

I am hoping they will ring the court with students in the new or remodeled gym. Allow the students to be spontaneous like we were when I sat in the bleachers in Carmichael back in the early 70's.

There was no talk about Cameron Crazies back then . We were louder and prouder.

I hope the new arena has a quality method to cordon off most or all of the upper deck and we stick to doing that for all women's games. If planned well during the design phase with "operable partitions" (not just drop curtains that absorb sound and look temporary) it could go a long way to creating a more intimate atmosphere and eventually making the women's game a hot ticket. Planning would also need to allow for access to video boards, lighting, good acoustics, etc.. with the partition closed

Think of the luxury seating levels effectively becoming our only upper deck(s) in WBB games. It may also make the venue more usable for other outside entertainment purposes that need less than 10K seats.

As a point of comparison, the Spectrum Center in Charlotte has 8500 lower level seats. And as of right now the new proposed UNC Arena will be a little smaller overall (rumored to be closer to 16K as opposed to Spectrum Center's 19.5K.) So there is a world where we could have a capacity similar to what we have now, but only if planned right.

 

[6string]

I hope the new arena has a quality method to cordon off most or all of the upper deck and we stick to doing that for all women's games. If planned well during the design phase with "operable partitions" (not just drop curtains that absorb sound and look temporary) it could go a long way to creating a more intimate atmosphere and eventually making the women's game a hot ticket. Planning would also need to allow for access to video boards, lighting, good acoustics, etc.. with the partition closed

Think of the luxury seating levels effectively becoming our only upper deck(s) in WBB games. It may also make the venue more usable for other outside entertainment purposes that need less than 10K seats.

As a point of comparison, the Spectrum Center in Charlotte has 8500 lower level seats. And as of right now the new proposed UNC Arena will be a little smaller overall (rumored to be closer to 16K as opposed to Spectrum Center's 19.5K.) So there is a world where we could have a capacity similar to what we have now, but only if planned right.

Interesting ideas and yeah that could definitely create an atmosphere closer to Carmichael.

 

[SeaPinesHeel]

They did that for years in Greensboro for the ACC tourney.

still do

 

[mpaer]

It is cool that we have our own Women's gym
I get it that we consolidate
I dream of us having 16,000 at some home games in the future

 

[Jriv23]

This is a wow moment for me. Just think, they did all of those renovations and now they are going to be in a new gym. It makes you wonder why did they do all those renovations in the first place.

 

[Tar_Heels]

I totally understand both sides of the argument here. I do. But, if the WBB team moves to Carolina North (assuming that’s where they put it), we’ll probably no longer get WBB season tickets. We’ll still support the team and attend some games, but we’ll probably go with FB and baseball season tix only. Maybe, we’ll add season tix to WSOC, LAX or another sport that plays on main campus. I’ve sat thru WBB games in half empty (or more) larger arenas at other schools … it’s not that much fun. Carmichael is near perfect for us from a fan perspective. Even during the less-attended games in Carmichael, there’s a cool mix of “seasoned” fans (you know who you are!!), young families, kids running around, and UNC students. I think it’s pretty sure bet that, at a minimum, student attendance for WBB games will drop A LOT if they move to Carolina North. Oh well, I guess such is the price of “progress.”

 

[Mtns2Sea]

I certainly would/will miss Carmichael.

 

[ZinfanHeel]

First, we are talking some years in the future.

I was there when Carmichael was built. I was there when the first game was played there. Compared to what was being used - Woollen Gym - it was an enormous upgrade. Of course, at that time men's basketball was the only sport played there. Wrestling and fencing, iirc, were still in Woollen. There were no women's sports, unless you counted cheerleading.

Money was a huge issue then. Carolina desperately needed dorm spaces, and the money went to Ehringhaus, Craige and Morrison. To build Carmichael, the University had to "game" the system by telling the state that Carmichael was just an extension of Woollen, and would be used as a multi-purpose venue housing concerts, guest speakers and the like. Unfortunately the sound was awful since the area just behind the hydraulically-activated stage was the outside wall of Woollen.

In time, it became obvious that Carmichael would never be adequate for the great UNC men's program under Dean Smith, so the "Dean Dome" was born. Carmichael became the home of WBB, and so it has been for the past 52 years. It seats 6,000+ but very few games actually sell out. There are two concession stands, and for most games only one of them is open. In 2009 there were extensive modifications that made it more compatible with the needs of TV; seating was upgraded, scoreboard upgraded, and still it is rarely sold out - the recent SMU game was 2500, less that 50% capacity.

No doubt that some things needed upgrading, like the WBB offices which, if you try to enter them now you will politely asked to get lost. The former WBB museum is now a gathering place for Ram's Club donors. The re are no spaces suitable for pregame activities. Parking is terrible. A new facility may, if designed properly and if men's basketball doesn't totally dominate the layout, could be an improvement.

Still, you have to wonder if we will create a Syracuse-type situation where a few thousand fans are in a building designed for 20,000. See what that does to our recruiting potential.

To me, Carmichael for all its limitations, is "home". I don't think I want to lose that.

 

[UNC76]

still it is rarely sold out - the recent SMU game was 2500, less that 50% capacity.

We really need bigger turnouts from the students. It seemed like they supported the team much better last year. Granted, the biggest opponent so far has been Louisville, and we played them during the semester break,

It's a shame the dook game isn't already sold out.

 

[HeadsCarolina]

I think UNC does a horrible job of promoting WBB. Carmichael is such a fun place when its full and the Heels are rolling, and it's such a cheap ticket. Attendance has been really bad this year, and they need to do something to get the students more involved. Please come out and support the Heels this Sunday!

 

[Mtns2Sea]

Season ticket holders need to come to the games! Or transfer your tickets to other Carolina fans who will attend in your absence. We need a huge crowd this Sunday!

 

[Jriv23]

UNCWBB needs to hire a marketing strategist to help with this. Heck, UNC is one of the top business schools in the country. I do not see why they could not hire a marketing grad student to help with this. That would be very cost effective. You the resources that the school already has. A graduate student would be perfect; especially one that has a marketing major. Also, I would contact VT, SC, etc. and ask Dawn Staley how did she do it because we all know that before Dawn got to SC no one hardly game to their games. She has build up the attendance and now it is insane. There is no shame in your game CB for you to reach out to Dawn and ask her how did she do it. That is why coaches belong to the same coaching organization. Here again, it does not cost a dime to reach out to coaches who have massive attendance to get ideas from.

 

[tarboy]

I wish they would put the students on TV instead the paid for but seldom sat in nice Carolina Blue seats. Back when I was in school the students sat
behind the teams in the bleachers. I sometimes sat so close to our team I could hear Coach Smith talking in the team huddle's.

 

[6string]

I wish they would put the students on TV instead the paid for but seldom sat in nice Carolina Blue seats. Back when I was in school the students sat
behind the teams in the bleachers. I sometimes sat so close to our team I could hear Coach Smith talking in the team huddle's.

Same here. What energy that was. Put the students in the bleachers and you will have a home court advantage.

 

[ncjmayo]

On the students, I think there's three things playing into the low attendance:
- An earlier men's dook game means less incentive to go to other sports and collect points that get you better basketball seats. When the men's team plays dook at the end of the year, there's more incentive to go to games and collect points to make sure you get a ticket
- The men's team looked better through early winter. A bad men's team pushes more fans to take pride in the women's team (we may see some of that to close out the WBB season!)
- The student section was split up this year to be behind both baskets. I think it's decreased the energy and made it easier for students to sit quietly, because there isn't as much peer pressure from the more engaged student fans.

 

[bradarb08]

I also think early losses and then bad losses and dropping our rankings have played into that. If this team beats Louisville and Stanford, and was a top-10 team... more people would be at the games, too. Our fans love our teams when they are good... not so much when they are not. Same for football...

 

[SeaPinesHeel]

I wish they would put the students on TV instead the paid for but seldom sat in nice Carolina Blue seats. Back when I was in school the students sat
behind the teams in the bleachers. I sometimes sat so close to our team I could hear Coach Smith talking in the team huddle's.

The benches used to be on the other side of the court, in front of the students and the bleachers. Our current coaching staff changed that so that they could be on TV more, since the cameras have to be on the catwalk behind the bleachers

 

[uman1]

A National championship type team with a must-see type of player would boost attendance. The If we build it they will come argument. Attendance was up for a while under SH, but when recruiting/talent fell off the product on the floor became unwatchable.

 

[JOB1937]

The student giveaways don’t work because so many of them show up to get the freebie and then leave. I’ve seen this at WBB, MBB, WSOC, etc. They shouldn’t give them their stuff until the start of the 4th quarter.

 

[UNC76]

The benches used to be on the other side of the court, in front of the students and the bleachers. Our current coaching staff changed that so that they could be on TV more, since the cameras have to be on the catwalk behind the bleachers

Are you actually claiming that moving the benches across the court was done because our coaches wanted more TV air time? I call BS on that.

 

[SeaPinesHeel]

Are you actually claiming that moving the benches across the court was done because our coaches wanted more TV air time? I call BS on that.

it was so the team could be on TV more, yes, almost all arenas benches are across from the TV cameras for this reason

 

[kenancarmichael]

UNCWBB needs to hire a marketing strategist to help with this. Heck, UNC is one of the top business schools in the country. I do not see why they could not hire a marketing grad student to help with this. That would be very cost effective. You the resources that the school already has. A graduate student would be perfect; especially one that has a marketing major. Also, I would contact VT, SC, etc. and ask Dawn Staley how did she do it because we all know that before Dawn got to SC no one hardly game to their games. She has build up the attendance and now it is insane. There is no shame in your game CB for you to reach out to Dawn and ask her how did she do it. That is why coaches belong to the same coaching organization. Here again, it does not cost a dime to reach out to coaches who have massive attendance to get ideas from.

Win at the level SC does and the crowds will get better. What were crowds like during the Latta years?