Can we all agree Hubbard is not a “great”’player?
- Thread starter AnesthesiaDawg
- Start date
It means I'm right if you take the opposite side. Thanks!
Keeping the other team from scoring as much as you do kind of helps too.
I feel like it's more complex than this. I too would love to know if MSU let them walk, or if they just wanted to leave. The story I keep hearing with Murphy is MSU made him good NIL offers but being from Alabama he really wanted to play for Auburn.
I've had jobs in my past I hated, but if they were to triple or quadrouple my salary I would have thought about staying. But I've also had jobs that no amount of money would make me stick around another year.
I think Murphy might have made a different decision if he knew which Pearl was actually going to be coaching him.
Nwoko is on his 3rd school in 3 years….he just may be one of those who is going to go to the high bidder every cycle. It’s possible that we thought he was replaceable and didn’t really make a strong offer. Obviously if so, that was the wrong decision. As I remember it, he left and found a new home before Murphy officially bolted to Auburn. It may be that we held all our funds to make a competitive offer to Murphy, then he burned us anyway.
Clary is another one that nobody seems willing to talk about. He’s been a huge contributor as a PG in 2 different locations. Would love to get details on who really had the bigger ego issue between him and Jans, because I know his one year stint was not cheap.
Ultimately, a big part of the problem seems to be the same as always….we don’t have enough NIL to be seriously competitive.
At the college level, I think Lawrence a Roberts was clearly better. Yes they play different positions, but Roberts is better using the eye test.
As for guards specifically- I think Q, Jamont, and Bowers are all better, and thats just from this current century.
Those 3 each have multiple important statistics that put them ahead of Hubbard. Hubbard has a higher ppg than them, but that is a simple stat which is easily explained away.
So, how many points per game is Hubbard single handedly surrendering to his man? Is it more than 22.3 points per game? Somehow, I highly doubt it.
Touché. Guess he finally decided to show up for the last 3 games.
Hubbard is a solid player. He can go off like last night. The problem this team faces is that there is no one dependable other than Hubbard. In other words, when they decide to shut him down, whoever it is, we are in trouble. If we had a better supporting staff, I think you would see our record improve.
Oh they definitely decided to shut him down last night, like every team this year has. It's just that most of the time they can't shut him down, as evidenced by his 22 pt per game average.
That's why he's not a "solid" player. He's a great player.
And yes, his supporting cast is really lacking.
It's pretty unbelievable to me that, even on this incredibly cynical board (me included), we're actually debating the greatness of a guy who, barring injury and assuming 4 full years, will score over 2,500 career points and be the schools all time leading scorer when it's all done.
maybe him not showing up in games is at least partly due to the fact the that the other teams know that the rest of the team i not very good and use that fact to double or triple team him
And Hubbard's play game to game would improve too. I don't understand why the "experts" on here can't see that.
Why am I not surprised that that would be all you and your buddy would look at. Watch how scoring plays against us start. Just off the top of my head, I'd estimate at least a third of them start with Hubbard losing his man whether he is the one that scores or not.
If only there was a way to measure Hubbard’s combined contribution on both ends of the floor, and determine if the offense / defense trade-off is worth it.
Oh wait, there is. Box plus / minus (BPM) does exactly that. Measures the number of points above the average that the player yields for their team, per 100 possessions.
Here’s a few career BPM’s for some of our greats from the past several years:
Q Weatherspoon - 7.0
Tolu Smith - 6.1
Cam Matthews - 6.0
Robert Woodard - 5.7
Reggie Perry - 6.0
Keyshawn Murphy - 6.5 (MSU only)
Dee Bost - 5.1
Rodney Hood - 3.5 (MSU only)
Arnett Moultrie - 5.2
Tyson Carter - 4.1
So where is Hubbard at?
He’s rocking a 7.2….better than all of the above….a list that includes 5 players that have gotten NBA minutes.
So yeah, he’s pretty much our best player of at least the past 20 years. A once in a generation player at MSU. And oh yeah, his DBPM of 0.7 indicates that he is rated as being very slightly above average defensively. Not great at all by any means, but nowhere near as terrible as he’s made out to be. Definitely not a liability that outweighs his offensive value. Those numbers do go way negative for really poor players on either end of the floor.
Checkmate.
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Hubbard is a great player, and seems like a good guy from a good family. He is a good representative of MSU. I'm glad he plays for MSU!
if we go way back for Bailey, we should also mention Jim Ashmore--he was hell on wheels and a first team all American
One of the greatest Bulldogs of all-time, Ashmore was a three-time All-SEC selection in 1954-55, 1955-56 and 1956-57. He secured Associated Press All-America Third-Team status as a senior during the 1956-57 season.
Ashmore was the first player in program history to amass 1,000 career points and his 1,918 points currently sit fourth on the program's all-time list. He is one of two players in State history to average over 20 points per contest joining another MSU legend and teammate, Bailey Howell.
Ashmore's career-high of 45 points versus Ole Miss on Jan. 19, 1957 is still tied for the second-most points scored by a State player in a game. He amassed 12 outings of 30-plus points in 1956-57 and averaged 28.3 points per contest which are both program records during a single season.
Ashmore was the first player in program history to amass 1,000 career points and his 1,918 points currently sit fourth on the program's all-time list. He is one of two players in State history to average over 20 points per contest joining another MSU legend and teammate, Bailey Howell.
Ashmore's career-high of 45 points versus Ole Miss on Jan. 19, 1957 is still tied for the second-most points scored by a State player in a game. He amassed 12 outings of 30-plus points in 1956-57 and averaged 28.3 points per contest which are both program records during a single season.
I agree with most of your post but this part is definitely not true. We have (and spent) plenty.
Then how did we lose 3 players who are now starting and performing at an elite level at 3 other P4 programs?
4-20 bump!
I kid, I kid. Was traveling most of the day so didn’t see any of it. Was it as bad as the box score indicates?
I kid, I kid. Was traveling most of the day so didn’t see any of it. Was it as bad as the box score indicates?
4-20 bump!
I kid, I kid. Was traveling most of the day so didn’t see any of it. Was it as bad as the box score indicates?
Just picture the last two wins without Hubbard scoring the 80 or so points he did and you get an idea how it looked.
Without Hubbard I feel pretty confident this team would get Jans fired. The record would be abysmal.
4-20 bump!
I kid, I kid. Was traveling most of the day so didn’t see any of it. Was it as bad as the box score indicates?
Also didn’t help that Epps got hurt in the first half with a serious knee injury. Nearly every game he’s the second leading scorer.
And how many entry passes to the post have we seen? 2 or 3 all year. D’s know it. They double off SJJ and the post players with ease. When Hubb is knocking down shots is when he’s not doubled. But both Hubb and Epps are the offense. If they can’t collectively put up 60 we usually don’t win. The others aren’t included. Might be why they don’t do nothing. Only scores from our post come off rebounds and occasional lobs when we decide to beat the doubles. Our offense plan sux. Our execution is worse. Hubb is a great volume shooter, good scorer and average or below everywhere else. It’s still a team game. Need to play team concepts. But we don’t. And our D is a cluster.
The games say we are a .500 team with one single player who actually belongs on an SEC basketball roster. That says an awful lot about that one player, even if the team as a whole isn’t great.
Learn about basketball. Checkmate. Perd is absolutely correct that he’s a one man show on this roster.
Say you don't understand basketball without saying you don’t understand basketball.
Hubbard has the records without the play calling and personnel support.
Every success he achieves is in spite of the system.
Hubbard has the records without the play calling and personnel support.
Every success he achieves is in spite of the system.
He is a one man show for sure, but I don't need to learn about basketball. I'm not even arguing that. The argument is he or is he not one of our greatest players. He isn't. He is a good player and a streaky shooter. When he is on he is really on. When he isn't he is a huge liability. He doesn't play defense well. Watch the games. A LOT of scoring plays against us start with him losing his man. If that guy doesn't shoot immediately somebody has to cover and one or two passes later the open guy resulting from that scores. It happens over and over.
The primary issue as I see it is we made Hubbard *the* franchise player on the team, and very few good basketball players want to be told or given the impression that they are a team's #2 or #3. So, the supporting cast around Hubbard has been a revolving door each year. And as Hubbard goes, so goes the team- if he is lights out, then we likely win, if he is ice cold, things get ugly quick. Add to to that his size and defensive ability and what we see is about what we expected. I am looking forward to a fresh lineup next year, and hoping we can hang on to Jans for it.
Maybe, just maybe, Hubbard is tired on the defensive end from having to do everything on the offensive end.