This is a shite show of the worst order
- Thread starter RUdepressed
- Start date
98 points against and forced 2 turnovers. That has to be a record.
Yeah it’s bad. But it could be way better with a few defensive frontcourt pieces.
Grant is just a horrible defender and rebounder. And Buchanan isn’t much better when he slides to that position. We have a huge hole on D. It’s not fixable right now but a few defensive guys in the post could help a lot. The question is can we get it? I honestly don’t know the answer.
Grant is just a horrible defender and rebounder. And Buchanan isn’t much better when he slides to that position. We have a huge hole on D. It’s not fixable right now but a few defensive guys in the post could help a lot. The question is can we get it? I honestly don’t know the answer.
Another year of this JV coach to save 4 million. FIND THE MONEY. Four million is not that much in this day and age. And what we'll lose in other areas (season ticket sales, concession sales, and parking) makes it not even 4 million. If you think we are only losing because of NIL Zinn then you're not the right person to lead this program.
Last edited:
This roster is so much further away than a couple defensive front court pieces. At this point you have to recognize this is a complete roster overhaul to be competitive.
No - it’s not. I don’t think folks understand how different this team would look with MJ and Caleb playing 25 minutes each. And I don’t think junior year versions of those two are going to cost us the bank. The difference would be night and day.
We don’t just not have elite defenders in the post. Grant’s atrocious D inexplicitly gets overlooked by our fans. It’s to the opposite extreme of every little thing pointed out about Francis. Grant can do no wrong it seems by many on here. Guys were rebounding over him and making lay ups on him as if he was a tiny guard. His height does nothing.
People dumped on MJ for years because he wasn’t a perfect offensive player…that kind of defensive and rebounding anchor changes everything else and cleans up so much for a team. Kaden looks like he has some Geo in him. Francis is probably better than Sanders. Buchanan is like a longer less willing to shoot Montez. This team would be fine with an MJ center - it would be 3-4 games better with a league average center
Each of these humiliating blowouts show what a villain Hobbs was and remains to be to the RU sports program. With the extensions he gave Pikell and Schiano and ignoring the onset of the NIL era, he has handicapped the BB and Football programs for years to come.
I don’t want to crap on the kid, but at this point, Grant’s D has to be called out. It’s an expanded black hole because it’s in combination with us not having a legit starting center. We even play 6-6 (if that) Buchanan out of position at center at least 10 min per game because we have no choice. This is a rate limiting problem to have on D for over half a game.
The other factor being overlooked is the impact that our historically poor defense is having on our offense. When you get such few stops, you have far less opportunities to score before the defense gets set. We have two players in Francis and Buchanan who are good off the dribble scorers but most of their opportunities have to come from iso openings in the halfcourt for this reason. When you consider this in combo with our post players giving us next to zero clean up offense, ranking 145th in Kenpom offense is actually borderline impressive.
So again - if Pike were to hypothetically fix these holes which could be done with the addition of 2 guys like MJ and Caleb (or Mag - someone with ugly looking offensive efficiency but lock down D) - the impact would be a lot bigger than some folks think.
It’s easier for Zinn to just give him a vote of confidence and delay the inevitable. Then, milk it for another year, and she’ll move on too.
It is at the point that we now look foolish to just hang on to Pike for the remainder of the season. Last year, he couldn't figure out the pieces to win with two really good NBA players on the team...Heck- I would bet that if Flagg was on the team with Harper and Ace, we may have made the NIT at best.
He did a great job to get us out of the trash bin but he has no clue how to work in today's college environment.
He did a great job to get us out of the trash bin but he has no clue how to work in today's college environment.
Serious over-reacting on this thread. It was the back end of a west coast trip. These guys aren't used to this. It's a tough ask and it's why we were able to defeat Oregon.
We have one more tough game to get through and then this 7 game gauntlet from hell is over. Hang in there people.
We have one more tough game to get through and then this 7 game gauntlet from hell is over. Hang in there people.
The lumps are going to be the lumps. There are certain teams that we simply do not have the personnel to compete with due to our lack of a frontcourt. It’s not a matter of the team’s ranking, but rather the match up itself. I expected Tariq to struggle with UCLA’s on ball defenders who play similar to SHU. He actually did a pretty good job of staying in control and didn’t force shots until the end when the game was already over. But the reality is, we’re not going to have much of a chance against teams that can limit his usage to 4 of 6 shooting through more than 3/4 of the game. Powers went bonkers early from deep to allow us to hang in for a while but we have no post scorers and can’t stop anyone on D so over the course of a game. If Tariq is contained, we’re not winning. We simply do not have enough horses to exploit the overfocus on him properly against teams with length like UCLA has. But add a couple post players and it’s a totally different game.
No - if (and it’s a massive “if”) Tariq stays and we succeed in bringing in a Cliff/MJ and a Caleb/Mag type - I don’t think it’s impossible that we could go from a 12/13 win team to 19/20. I see the struggles of this team in a similar light to the struggles in 2018-19. I don’t mean that the holes on the 2 teams are similar but rather the addition of a few key pieces combined with year over year improvement of returners would make a big difference running similar style play. Now that team won 14 games which I don’t think we’ll accomplish, but that team also lost their best player in Eugene. My IF depends on the assumption that Tariq stays. Pike, in my opinion, is completely screwed if he walks out the door. Money aside, he has to be able to sell a vision to kids that fit a specific mold. Any vision to build on from this season starts and ends with Tariq and how we could be much better with the addition of X skill (being sold to the kid he feels possesses it). Full stop. Lose TF and we’re on a futile shopping spree once again for the kitchen sink. Just my opinion.
Caleb / Myles were juniors on a roster Harper, JY, Geo, Mathis, Cliff, and Mulcahy.
That team won 18 games and made the tourney as a 10 seed.
you think adding two defensive players who never averaged 10 points in their career is going to take this same roster to 8-10 more conference wins?
No. Not yet. Have to see how the winnable games go and the insiders need to get a sense of whether Tariq is walking out the door regardless of whether Pike stays. If that’s the case, then yeah, I’d say the chance of him turning things around next year would be close to zero. Pike isn’t starting from ground zero and producing even a 500 team. There is a chance he could go into the portal and obtain 2-3 key pieces that would drastically improve the deficiencies on the existing team. While not a given - there’s at least a reasonable chance if he returns his 16 ppg weapon as a starting point. Lose that and we have nothing. He’s not landing a comparable power conference kid from the portal with star metrics no matter how much we offer. There’s just no reason for those types to choose us over staying where they are or taking any one of the multitude of of offers that will be out there - just as they didn’t choose SHU. We can land power conference defenders if we offer high and sell our needs and how those guys will get opportunities to score more garbage points in our system. Defensive guys score more at Rutgers than they do other places when we have offensive weapons like Tariq, JY, etc.
This is an exremely optimistic take
You have to also start by acknowledge one constant of Pikiell is he is slow out of the gate meaning you are likely starting 8-3 at best out of the gate. Puts alot of pressure on winning 11 games next season in league. Do you see that happening
The current roster has alot of one dimensional players...even the better ones. Is Pike going to thread a needle like he couldnt do the year Mag went down
I would focus on spending money on 8 players..francis powers grant or dortsch and zrno and then 4 newcomers. As for the rest they get peanuts. We only need a playing roster potential of 10
Davis Nwuli Mark Possibly Grant Badalu Ware Fall all have to be moved out. Keep Ogbole as a reserve but please dont overspend. He may get a bigger bag at an A10 school
Do players want to go to a school where they believe Francis will get 18 shots per game...sort of the situation last year...and will Francis want to stay if hevisnt guaranteed the spotlight here
This game was a tough ask no matter how you slice it
The last 7 games after Nebraska will determine the next steps
it’s more embarrassing how many coaches are throwing flowers at Steve for doing his best and pointing out Rutgers is just a poor program to keep up financially
even the best coaches in this league acknowledge they can’t compete without it
it doesn’t matter how we allocated our 3-5 million this past year the top half of the league was spending 3-4 times that
The last 7 games after Nebraska will determine the next steps
it’s more embarrassing how many coaches are throwing flowers at Steve for doing his best and pointing out Rutgers is just a poor program to keep up financially
even the best coaches in this league acknowledge they can’t compete without it
it doesn’t matter how we allocated our 3-5 million this past year the top half of the league was spending 3-4 times that
Yes. That was a Covid year recall and we barely played any non-conference games and won out the games did play easily (including Syracuse). That team was an 11 loss team on selection day and won its first game in the BIG tournament. In a normal year this would translate into a 22 win team 19-14 is way different from 22-11.
Perhaps a better (interesting) question to ask - could the 2022-23 team get to 19-14 if Tariq replaced Cam Spencer on that roster. I believe the answer is yes and that’s with keeping everything constant - all the games Paul, Caleb and Mag missed…. Hot take - we don’t lose the Miami or Temple games with Tariq in that backcourt to help frosh Derek vs Temple and Cam was terrible against Miami.
Last edited:
Francis aside, is there one player on this current roster that you think would see the floor on that team?
I’m not sure how much he would play over Baker Young McConnell Mathis and Mulcahy
you can say oh better scorer than Mathis and Mulcahy but those guys filled different roles
I also think folks are completely (and once again) unfairly dismissing the progress and development Tariq has made over the course of the season on both ends of the floor. That kid gets no credit at all. Compare him to say J Mike who looks exactly the same on D as he did as a frosh. There would definitely be potential for upside development in another offseason in our system. Without a doubt.
Different type of team entirely, but he would find a role on almost any collegiate roster. His scoring ability and ability to draw fouls on shots away from the rim are unique. And he’s definitely better than Tez anyway. He’d play over him.
And again - that was a weird Covid year. Caleb also played hurt and not to his potential. It’s not the season I’d compare to. 2022-23 a way better example. Take sharp shooter Cam Spencer out. Stick Francis in…. I say the results are the same. Maybe even potentially better. We win the Miami game. Maybe Temple too.
Not saying anyone is wrong here but this game was a horrible matchup like Indiana, and if we move on from Pike it better be a ton of money to get Josh Schertz, St Louis.
UCLA 8 of their top 9 players are Seniors & Juniors with a 3rd yr Sophomore being the 9th vs 5 Fresh/2 Soph/3 Jr & a Sr(Ogbole).
Going into this year, we had 4 returning players to teach the 10 newcomers a new system, while UCLA has 4 of their top 5 players return for their 3rd or 4th year, 5 of 8, with 4 transfers in their 3rd to 5th year in college, playing high major college ball. Again mostly 18 to 21 years old vs mostly 21 to 24 year old like Indiana. Not excusing the play, it was bad, but it was men vs boys kinda matchup.
UCLA 8 of their top 9 players are Seniors & Juniors with a 3rd yr Sophomore being the 9th vs 5 Fresh/2 Soph/3 Jr & a Sr(Ogbole).
Going into this year, we had 4 returning players to teach the 10 newcomers a new system, while UCLA has 4 of their top 5 players return for their 3rd or 4th year, 5 of 8, with 4 transfers in their 3rd to 5th year in college, playing high major college ball. Again mostly 18 to 21 years old vs mostly 21 to 24 year old like Indiana. Not excusing the play, it was bad, but it was men vs boys kinda matchup.
Not so fast..those were early season games. We couldnt beat Central Conn State WITH Francis. In fact they blew us out by 13!
Let’s spin this back to 2022-23. In my proposed hypothetical for hope of a 2026-27 turnaround, I said it was based on the assumption we get a Cliff/MJ and a Caleb/Mag type. Caleb and Mag didn’t play all that much together in 2022-23 due to injuries. So assume we’d have one of them, Cliff and TF in place of Cam Spencer. Now look at the remaining players on the 2022-23 team. You could say the same thing about pretty much anyone - none of them would see the floor on the 2020-21 team except Paul who was on both teams and the main added value he provides over J Mike (other than his height) matters less with Tariq on the roster than a Cam type who needs a distributor.
Stop - Cliff and Caleb would be on the team remember… you think that wouldn’t have made a massive difference? We had 31 minutes of Denis and 27 minutes of Grant on defense.
And oh yeah, CC grabbed more rebounds than us.
I’ll add - there’s close to zero chance our current team loses CC, Michigan State or the Iowa games if Caleb and Cliff replaced Fall and Denis on the roster. Those 3 games were lost because we had literally nothing on either end up front to compete. I understand that would only make us 12-11 but I think we could realistically have pulled off a couple of the other games as well. It’s hard to say how they would’ve gone if we had an answer of any kind on D and in the post. ND, USC and even some of the blow outs would’ve been way different. When you have a glaring hole like we have, sometimes there’s nothing you can do. But if you add a piece that fills the hole, things can change rather drastically. That’s all I’m saying. I’m leaning towards wholesale replacement of the frontcourt outside of Buchanan who plays a bunch of positions and can play 3 and maybe Dortch if he’s cheap enough.
Right now, I don’t want to pay for Denis, Fall, Ware, Grant, Nwuli, Ogbole, etc. they aren’t getting the job done on D or in some cases don’t see the floor.
I’m sort of indifferent on the guards besides Francis. I don’t know that we’re going to do that much better filling out the roster.
Last edited:
I don’t see a reason at this point to “pay” Grant. I’m not sure what he adds. He’s really awful at D.
JMike is not as good defensively this year as in the past but his D is way better than Tariques.
No - nothing like the situation last year because Pike deliberately chose to recruit offense. He wanted to make sure his NBA stars shined. If he wanted to recruit defensive players with ugly efficiency metrics he could’ve and he’ll be able to once again this year unlike going into the 2025-26 cycle where he had no offense (though some were arguing Grant could be a go-to scorer, I never bought that). Francis is different. When you have a kid like him, you can afford not to focus on the kind of kids who might be able to put up lots of scoring (like the Euros, even Buchanan scored a bunch as a frosh). This time we’ll be able to focus on D. The offense would get the boost it needs to be bubble caliber with better D. Oddly, it’s not really our problem by Pike standards. We’re not efficient because we don’t have a center giving us 10 points a game on put backs and such like every other team whose back up often scores more than our guys combined.
There will be lots of moaning and groaning from everyone but me if we pick up a forward with a stat line that resembles Caleb’s from his sophomore year. As long as there is hype around the kid’s D at the power level I’m all for it. The center situation is such that we simply need to spend what it takes to buy one. Theres no such thing as “not worth it”.
I disagree. Tariq has been fine. J Mike might actually be worse other than getting a few more pick pocket type steals. Tariq plays it more conservative but actually gets blown by less than J Mike. Also - Tariq has been surprisingly very solid at understand help assignments. Unfortunately he’s small and often gets posted up in the paint on the help but at least he’s on the right position. Also - he’s noticeably improved on D as the season has gone on whereas J Mike is basically the same as when he was a frosh. TF has way more upside on D looking ahead to next year for this reason. Actually - although it doesn’t seem that way at quick glance, all the first year guards at RU have improved their defense. That’s why I say the issue is in the frontcourt. Grant, Denis, etc. just aren’t getting better on that end. Nwuli looks the same as when he started. Buchanan constantly playing out of position as is Dortch. The front court D is a train wreck.