This is the true moral of the story from the shooter's perspective. Damage to other humans notwithstanding, don't put yourself in this spot. There is no such thing as a "jury of your peers".
Minnesota - ICE Agent Shoots Woman Protester In Car - Happened Again - Both Justified
- Thread starter fatpiggy
- Start date
I'm not disagreeing. But, he apparently, according to reports, was hit by the car...I don't know whether he shot before or after being hit. The fact that he moved to his right, gives me thought that he at least believed that the driver was turning right. But, we'll learn his thoughts when investigation is completed.
I do think, and hope, that we can turn down the rhetoric. I also think if we could cut back on this antagonism toward ICE and get just a little more cooperation from state and local governments we could get back to a point of equilibrium. Just a comment to encourage citizens to obey command from agents would go a long way.
Down here in Florida, on TV yesterday one of our sheriffs held a press conference in which he told citizens, in part, that if you use your car to attack officers, expect to be shot. Now, that is a little over the top, but it gets a message out. I read somewhere where use of cars against ICE officers is up like 1300% (of course that might or might not be an actual small number if the base was 0) and surely ICE agents are a little more jumpy when confronted with a vehicle. Not suggesting they use weapons, only that psychologically they are likely to be equally divided in the split second decision of fight or flight.
Whole episode is a shame.
again, not disagreeing, neither the ICE officer nor Ms Good should have put themselves in the situations they did. This is just another example of a situation gone bad quickly, and a situation that could have been avoided. There is not a good outcome here for either individual.
but wouldn't that be the reaction of anybody?
I guess, if I read you correctly, your opinion is that by moving tires to the right meant she wanted to avoid the agent, but she hit him, brushed him.
I'm not defending the agent or criticizing the driver. I don't know what they were thinking. Whole thing is just a shame that should have been avoided.
Do you read the board at all? The majority of the questions you have, have been repeatedly explained in the very same threads. It's maddening to hear you constantly claim 'nobody knows' after what we know has been repeatedly explained and you ignore it.
The shooter walked behind her car and came around the passenger side while she was engaged with the agents on her driver's side - one of those agents asked her to move and she replied "I'm pulling out" at the same time that the shooter moved in front of her car, so it's very unlikely that she saw him. Plus, her partner was outside the car so do you really believe she would intentionally try to run over the officer and flee with her partner on the side of the road? He did not follow protocol which he should have known due to his previous experience with a moving vehicle. There's no way in hell that was intentional.
Right. She's dead and he's going to be found guilty of wrongful death at a bare minimum.
we shall see. Prosecuting attorneys I've listened to say there is no case. Of course, I am sure other attorneys have opposite opinions. That's why we have courts.
Prosecuting attorneys would be looking at it from a criminal stand point. There is a much higher threshold (beyond a reasonable doubt) for proving a case in criminal court than in civil court (preponderance of the evidence in most states). I guarantee you there are Plaintiff's attorneys that will be chomping at the bit for this. And right, wrong, or indifferent, there will be an element of this matter that ICE itself, and the trump administration by logical extension, will basically be on trial through this one officer.
Said another way, regardless of whether people are supposed to do it or not, the actions of the whole will be weighing heavily on the minds of the jurors as they assess the actions of the one.
Sure there is. It's just that people actually have to stop thinking that they're actually "better" than their peers.
Just for clarification. All white people owe all non-whites money, that’s your position. So I assume you support all Somalians being deported since some of them committed fraud right? Your entire position, wrecked, in two sentences. Pathetic.
Hope you have some loved one's close, someone might need to do a wellness check on ya bubba
But YOU get it, multiple times each day, Home O'Fluffigans.. Which explains why you can no longer produce an audible fart.
There have been plenty of news reports where folks with a law enforcement background weigh in with comments on this incident. A lot of it is just political, but if you listen to enough of them and you can glean a few useful bits of information. I tend to agree what Ms. Good bears some portion of the blame for her tragic fate, but it is a decidedly small portion. Consider the following:
1. A couple of law enforcement commentators noted that typical police protocol for a situation like this is for officers to position themselves on the side of a motor vehicle rather than in front or in back of the motor vehicle. Vehicles move forward and backward, not sideways.
2. Standard protocol is for a single member of the law enforcement team to be in command, and give directions to the person in the vehicle. That helps avoid confusion and mistakes. In this case, one ICE officer ran up to Ms. Good's vehicle shouting "Get out of the car." while the shooter had already drawn his weapon and moved in front of the front driver's side corner of the car. If Ms. Good had simply been parked in the middle of the street, I fail to see why that should have prompted either of these ICE officers to ramp things up so dramatically. It would be quite understandable if Ms. Good's reaction was panic.
3. The shooter may have a self defense argument with respect to his first shot, as he may have subjectively believed that Ms. Good's vehicle was coming at him even though she had the wheels turned to her right. But one LE commentator said that the self defense argument must be assessed with respect to each and every shot fired. He fired at least three shots, with the last two coming from the driver's side of the vehicle. Those shots were clearly not taken in self defense., as there is no way Ms. Good's car could strike him at that point.
4. The actions of ICE personnel immediately following the shooting were also pretty sketchy. The shooter and an ICE colleague promptly got in an ICE vehicle and departed, which clearly altered the crime scene. Moreover, the ICE officers who surrounded Ms. Good's car would not allow a doctor who was a bystander to render medical assistance to Ms. Good,. The bystander identified himself as a doctor and requested permission to render assistance,. to which an ICE officer responded. "No.." When said doctor noted how urgent Ms. Good's need for medical care was, the ICE agent responded "I don't care."
5. This incident already put a black eye on ICE and the Department of Homeland Security, but the Trump Administration,has compounded things by announcing that the FBI (and perhaps DHS) would be taking exclusive control of the investigation of this incident. Asking the feds to investigate themselves (particularly under folks like Trump, Noem and Cash Patel, who commented on the incident before knowing any of the details about it) is hardly likely to inspire any kind of confidence in the outcome of the investigation.
I think a lot of this is attributable to the fact that these ICE agents have not received training in dealing with members of the community, and are ill equipped to do so. Which is problematic given that they have been deployed all over the country in considerable numbers. There are reportedly more than 2,000 of them in the Minneapolis area alone.
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Back to Epstein we go
"There it is?" There is what?! That video does not show Ms. Good's car hitting, or even brushing against, the shooter. But what it DOES appear to show is the shooter muttering the words "phucking beotch" immediately after shooting her. Nice.
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Back to Epstein we go
You lying POS. This doesn't change anything ... other than reinforce that he clearly knew, beforehand, she wasn't a threat (he was aware of what kind of person he was dealing with), and he shot at her from the side, as she was driving AWAY. But you're a good little limp-wristed Nazi, aren't you, Baghdad Bobbingforcock?
Are you guys going to flee to Argentina again, once democracy is restored?
Back to Epstein we go
Yeah, that does need to be hashed out in time, but I don't think this does what you want it to. What I see is a vehicle very clearly reversing and turning (so not aiming to run him over). What I also see is a "wary", previously drug-by-a-car agent paying so little attention to his surroundings that he is more interested in recording with his phone than anything else. There is no audible impact of a vehicle. There is an audible impact of the phone on the ground. Lastly, what I also hear is the first gunshot slightly less than a half second after a "whoa". Clearly indicating that either a) he was already drawing; or b) with his cat like ninja reflex skills to pull a gun that fast, he could have gotten further away from the vehicle easily.
I don't think this helps him at all in any way.
Alright. Well, I wouldn't put myself in a spot for twelve perfect strangers to possibly decide either my freedom fate or my financial fate or both.
I think the tone all changed when one of the other ICE agents walked up and just tried to open her door. She even says to the agent that ultimately kills her, "I'm not mad at you".
The agent that was walking up to her door asked her to get out of the vehicle three different times
So a smiling Renee says to her shooter when he first walks up to the car "that's fine dude, I'm not mad at you" which clearly indicates she's not an angry radical intent on harm.
Not shown is the first command telling her to move.
The officer stupidly walks in front of her car right after she told the other officers "I'm pulling out"
She clearly cuts her wheel hard to the right with the sun in her eyes and saw the shooter at the last second before he put three holes in her head, two from the side of the vehicle.
Protocol says if you have the ability to move away from the car, you do so before recklessly using deadly force, He clearly had the ability to do so.
The dude had some built up anger that enabled his bad judgment and now three children don't have a mother. Evidenced by the words "fvcking *****" after he murdered her.
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Yes, so very scary. Was it the flannel shirt or the kitties on her phone case that frightened you the most.
After she was told to move so she probably thought moving the car was the goal and that would end it.
You seem to be taking this extra hard (like I’m sure you do other things)
Is it because she was one of you guys?
did mommy give you the gubment check that came in the mail today?
It's amazing how much of a ***** these right wingers are now. They used to just be scared of big cities but now they're scared of white soccer moms in SUVs carrying stuffed animals in the glove box and a dog in the backseat with national park stickers all over the back glass.
Serous question, what do you do any of this for? You are obviously just trolling and having fun insulting people.
I don't get it, is your life that dull? It's truly just weird.
There are 60 odd murders a day in this country by citizens who are not law enforcement. Do you memorialize all those victims or only the pretty white women killed by crazy black men?
How stupid do you have to be to believe we aren't outraged by random acts of violence too? Just tell us what we should still be doing so we know how to please a maga propagandist. While you're at it, what should we do for each of the 22,850 victims a year so we don't get on your whatabout bad side.
This is a lack of patience with retarded nonsense, like reparations, you espouse. That’s all. I’m fine bubba. If you feel so guilty go give your money away.
