Minnesota - ICE Agent Shoots Woman Protester In Car - Happened Again - Both Justified
- Thread starter fatpiggy
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Tim Walz to deploy Minnesota National Guard to protect against ICE? This could get interesting.
Failure to follow a lawful command is not a justification for the use of lethal force. Fear for one's safety is. We'll see how (and equally as interestingly, where) this plays out. The core decision to draw and shoot happens in less than two seconds when you watch in real time. If forced right now to make a call on what happened based on what I've seen in various clips, and without giving/taking into account any benefit of the doubt to the officer (which, TBC, he is entitled to under the law), I think he's got a problem because he drew to apprehend her. But as i said, less than two seconds.
It is indeed time for folks of all persuasions to turn the temperature way down, but I suspect that precisely the opposite will occur.
Oddly, if I understand my federal law correctly from the limited amount I've read from the NG deployment cases that have been brought to date, doing so might well be precisely the thing that provides Trump with a basis for federalizing the guard. So, if that's Walz's basis/theory, he might want to take a very deep Jeffersonian breath and count to ten or, if necessary, one hundred.
Yeah, I think he drew too early also, but would never vote to convict on a jury. He reacted in less than 2 -3 seconds and while i think he got it wrong, his actions were not unreasonable given the situation he was in.
Unfortunate from many angles.
You have to err with the police? The ICE Gestapo? The guy did the exact opposite of anything reasonable in that scenario. Actual LEO are trained to not stand in front of a vehicle with a “suspect” behind the wheel. This guy did just that. Then the driver is obviously under distress and assuming she’s trying to flee, then intent to flee does not justify use of deadly force. It’s not her fault that he idiotically stood in front of the vehicle, that’s not what he’s supposed to do.
To an objective viewer this is cold blooded murder by the ICE Gestapo.
We continue to fall further into fascism and right on cue you are cheering it on. You are excited to throw away democracy in the name of freedom. You should be ashamed.
Pro tip - while I tend to share the view that there was an unjustified homicide here, use of the phrase "objective viewer" with other words and phrases such as "Gestapo," "cold blooded murder," and "fascism" is somewhat...incongruous.
It will be interesting to learn more about what led up to this. From what I saw:
- There's no doubt that woman who was shot was resisting and fleeing law enforcement.
- It seems to me that the agent could have dove out of the way and avoided shooting but it's a heat of the moment thing.
- Walz accused ICE of not communicating in advance with local police which is likely true but local police have been told not to cooperate with ICE. So why would they expect any communication. In fact these types of situations could probably be avoided if local police cooperated with ICE.
- Walz also said we need to let the investigation play out while at the same time blaming everything on ICE and Trump. He speaks out of both sides of his mouth.
- Trump was also wrong for claiming the ICE officer shot in self defense. Just like Walz he should wait an allow the investigation to play out.
I disagree. Those terms describe the reality of the situation
It's a good thing that there is video of the whole thing, and that most of the nation has already seen it. Cheeto Hitler, who precipitated the whole fiasco by sending into Minneapolis thousands of trigger happy thugs (aka ICE officers), covered himself in additional "glory" by posting that the victim "violently, willfully, and viciously ran over the ICE Officer, who seems to have shot her in self defense,”
Unfortunately for Cheeto, the video shows that the ICE thug in question drew his pistol prior to the woman putting her car in drive, that he put himself immediately in front of the car, that the front wheels of the car were turned HARD to the right when she started forward (so that he could not have been hit by the car in any event), and that he was in fact never "run over" or hit. He in fact walked toward her crashed car immediately after pumping at least one bullet into her head. Great work, there. That thug should be prosecuted and jailed.
And ICE should, in fact, get the F out of Minneapolis.
Unfortunately for Cheeto, the video shows that the ICE thug in question drew his pistol prior to the woman putting her car in drive, that he put himself immediately in front of the car, that the front wheels of the car were turned HARD to the right when she started forward (so that he could not have been hit by the car in any event), and that he was in fact never "run over" or hit. He in fact walked toward her crashed car immediately after pumping at least one bullet into her head. Great work, there. That thug should be prosecuted and jailed.
And ICE should, in fact, get the F out of Minneapolis.
Maybe these liberal mayors and governors shouldn’t spew rhetoric that encourages interference and impeding federal law enforcement officers from executing legal warrants. If they actually did their jobs and put these criminals in jail, ICE wouldn’t have to be in the streets. Or if they didn’t prevent their police from protecting the agents from these crowds it wouldn’t have happened. But go ahead, blame Trump for everything, cry fascist.
I'd submit that ICE getting out of minneapolis went out the window with alleged discovery of all the fraud out of the Somali community. In fact, it's likely that they're going to get the opportunity to host more federal agents from different lettered organizations.
You are too far gone to reason with. Congratulations on supporting the downfall of democracy and supporting the US becoming a terrorist state.
It was never about freedom, was it? It was always just about power. You disgust me
Well, your fondest wishes will apparently be realized, then. I'm sure it will work out really well for all concerned.
yep, there will understandably be protests and that's all the beast will need to declare martial law.
not my wish. I would have been happy had our citizens and invited immigrants not committed fraud. But apparently that horse is out of the barn.
I know you're not in favor of fraud and since Minnesota officials don't seem to have had the capability to manage the federal funds, it only stands to reason, to me at least, that the feds would send their people in.
What in the world does the prosecution of fraud have to do with ICE being in MN? Those are two completely separate issues. ICE was not sent to MN to deal with Somalians to begin with, they were arresting Latinos.
didn't say that ice is there for the fraud. Ice is there for illegal immigrant arrests. I responded to the post about ICE getting out of Minnesota and my response was that went out the window when fraud was discovered. Remember some of the fraud is by illegal immigrants, supposedly. And I also said I'd expect more federal agents are likely to go there to investigate fraud.
You may be 100% right about being there for arresting Latinos but as Homan has pointed out, any illegal is subject to arrest and deportation. From what I've seen, ICE is an equal opportunity deporter
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The whole situation reminds me of the Ashley Babbit situation. Lots is similarities.
Completely disagree. Shot at point blank range as the vehicle was turning to drive away. Now the woman absolutely did the wrong thing, but not a justified shooting.
Here’s the other thing: maybe don’t give one command and just walk up to a vehicle and try and open the door. Not exactly de-escalating the situation.
Correct imo. Trump can declare an insurrection and then bring in the active military if it gets out of control. I think the NG will refuse any orders that Walz may issue to go after ICE.
Because a lot of the fraud is being committed by somali immigrants which is grounds for deportation.
Ashley Babbitt. Very similar except Babbit was unarmed while the woman killed today was driving the vehicle toward the officer and could have run him over. I think he shouldn't have shot today though. Looks like he could have moved out of the way.
Love watching you weave here, just making **** up as you go along to narrate a super hero tale that doesn't exist but you need in order to justify these things.
They were sent there: checks notes: to round up violent criminal illegals. Instead they killed some lady, who lives there and was waving them through as she was trying to yield out into traffic. Sorry it wasn't a brown person. I'm sure you might regret that i guess?
Quit being too emotional here. Logic prevails. The Trump administration has clearly stated that illegal criminals are top priority but if anyone is here and not a citizen they are subject to apprehension and removal.
Alright I'll take emotion out of it. What you said was untrue. Anyone not a citizen is not the subject to apprehension because non citizens can be here legally.
Anyway, that appeared to be an unjustified shooting. You know how I know? Factually, even if you were to surmise he thought he was in danger, he shot the car as it was driving past him. Which by policy of the DOJ, you are not to do. It was an unjustified use of force and that officer, will be stripped of qualified immunity and will have to answer for it. You defending him is an emotional decision, so was Trump when he lied and said the guy was in the hospital. Go ahead and quote tweet that dog crap here so we can all take in the lies.
I am not defending him. I already said in another post that I think he shouldn't have shot her there. My position here is logic while every lib on this board including you were basically celebrating unarmed Ashley Babbitt being killed on j6.
Where did I celebrate? I didn't you are just projecting. YOu are being emotional now.
Also, this isnt' about Babbitt. I don't think that comparison is even relevant.
look at our president lie
The front tires appear to be on ice. While she may have been trying to turn, the tires didn’t grip right away and the car went straight for a brief moment instead of turning like she intended.
Either way, it’s a totally justified shooting. The wrong decision? Yes. Justified? Also yes.
That woman was there to agitate and she got what she was looking for. No crying in the casino.
Either way, it’s a totally justified shooting. The wrong decision? Yes. Justified? Also yes.
That woman was there to agitate and she got what she was looking for. No crying in the casino.
NOT justified and she was not an agitator. She was a legal observer of federal enforcement actions in her city
Wrong. He shot her three times, twice as she was going past him. Those are 2 unjustified shots. She was a mom by the way. Theres an orphan out in the world tonight because of this officers actions.
Consider these facts: This person was pulling out of her drive way, stuck on ice(irony) and was waving people past. Armed government officials decided NO, got out of their car and ran up to pull her out. Because these folks were masked and didn't declare themselves ANYTHING. She had no obligation to abide by there orders and tried to leave. He stepped in front of her car and based on teh video, he drew his weapon before she went forward. He killed her. Shot two more times after anyone could consider what was justified. smh this was a bad shot.
Its a valid comparison absolutely and it shows the lib hypocrisy and TDS in action.
Defend our presidents comments. Was this ice agent recovering in the hospital today? You know its a lie.
A mother of a 4 year old sitting in her car was asked to leave and she did
An angry methed out trespasser with bad intentions was asked to leave and she didn't