How MC is not currently a Top 25 team is mind boggling

[Topiarydan1]

Granted I realize that teams from CA, TX, FL and GA are going to have 3-4 teams that are going to be at the top but seeing MC currently at 29 after going 14-0 is mind boggling
Realize chance to sneak into final Top 25 is still a possibility with some states still playing
ESL is 72 and Rice is 76

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[4Afan]

Granted I realize that teams from CA, TX, FL and GA are going to have 3-4 teams that are going to be at the top but seeing MC currently at 29 after going 14-0 is mind boggling
Realize chance to sneak into final Top 25 is still a possibility with some states still playing
ESL is 72 and Rice is 76

Mount Carmel (Chicago, IL) - Football, Basketball: Scores, Schedules, Rankings, Recruiting and News

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As I've said before, Illinois isn't a top tier state when it comes to football. ESL gets the recognition because they play a national schedule.

 

[jha618]

Granted I realize that teams from CA, TX, FL and GA are going to have 3-4 teams that are going to be at the top but seeing MC currently at 29 after going 14-0 is mind boggling
Realize chance to sneak into final Top 25 is still a possibility with some states still playing
ESL is 72 and Rice is 76

Mount Carmel (Chicago, IL) - Football, Basketball: Scores, Schedules, Rankings, Recruiting and News

The latest Mount Carmel (Chicago, IL) - Football, Basketball: Scores, Schedules, Rankings, Recruiting and News info.

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Unless MC starts scheduling IMG-type teams in the non-conference they arent going to get the national recognition. Playing a competitive game and still losing will do alot for them in terms of national recognition and rankings.

 

[Snetsrak61]

I just checked out Ohio, which typically is stronger than Illinois nationally and their #1 team is even lower than Mt Carmel.

#29 is still pretty darn high.

 

[4Afan]

I just checked out Ohio, which typically is stronger than Illinois nationally and their #1 team is even lower than Mt Carmel.

#29 is still pretty darn high.

I think Ohio is deeper than Illinois. Moeller finished #10 in the state with 5 losses.

 

[Edgytim]

In all honesty I'm surprised they have MC that high......also ESTL besides the national schedule also is always loaded with national level recruits which is another factor rightly or wrongly.

 

[jha618]

I think Ohio is deeper than Illinois. Moeller finished #10 in the state with 5 losses.

The #1 team in Ohio was 1-9 four years ago. Thats hard to imagine from any team in Illinois.

 

[JCHillmen10]

As I've said before, Illinois isn't a top tier state when it comes to football. ESL gets the recognition because they play a national schedule.

Yea it wasn't a banner year for IL football, so not surprising to see limited success in national rankings.

MC quite talented, but not one of their top handful of all time great teams. It doesn't help that their resume included a run through a historically weak 8A. LWE proved to be a paper tiger the last 3-5 weeks of the season, thus removing a highly touted showdown that surely would have left the winner ranked. Oswego is quite a nice team, but still a team that lost to Minooka with a 3rd/4th string QB. That kind of playoff road didn't give them a single feather in their cap to say "put us within shouting distance of Gorman and IMG."

Hopefully Illinois 8A is deeper next fall.

Regular season had some decent wins in Fenwick, Naz, and BR, but none of them registered on the national level this season.

 

[Mcohn7]

Yea it wasn't a banner year for IL football, so not surprising to see limited success in national rankings.

MC quite talented, but not one of their top handful of all time great teams. It doesn't help that their resume included a run through a historically weak 8A. LWE proved to be a paper tiger the last 3-5 weeks of the season, thus removing a highly touted showdown that surely would have left the winner ranked. Oswego is quite a nice team, but still a team that lost to Minooka with a 3rd/4th string QB. That kind of playoff road didn't give them a single feather in their cap to say "put us within shouting distance of Gorman and IMG."

Hopefully Illinois 8A is deeper next fall.

Regular season had some decent wins in Fenwick, Naz, and BR, but none of them registered on the national level this season.

Mount Carmel has never had a more talented team. It is loaded with top recruits. In terms of talent level MC compares very well to a few other top 25 teams.

 

[4Afan]

Yea it wasn't a banner year for IL football, so not surprising to see limited success in national rankings.

MC quite talented, but not one of their top handful of all time great teams. It doesn't help that their resume included a run through a historically weak 8A. LWE proved to be a paper tiger the last 3-5 weeks of the season, thus removing a highly touted showdown that surely would have left the winner ranked. Oswego is quite a nice team, but still a team that lost to Minooka with a 3rd/4th string QB. That kind of playoff road didn't give them a single feather in their cap to say "put us within shouting distance of Gorman and IMG."

Hopefully Illinois 8A is deeper next fall.

Regular season had some decent wins in Fenwick, Naz, and BR, but none of them registered on the national level this season.

It's not just this year. Illinois has never been a top tier state for football.

The LWE game or lack of depth in 8A has nothing to do with their ranking.

There is no path, hypothetical or real in Illinois that would have put MC within shouting distance of Gorman or IMG.

Outside of ESL there is no win in Illinois that MC could have that would move the needle nationally.

 

[4Afan]

Mount Carmel has never had a more talented team. It is loaded with top recruits. In terms of talent level MC compares very well to a few other top 25 teams.

Do they? MC had an amazing team, but outside of #25 Basha, AZ they are 2-3 score underdogs against teams ranked 20-25 per Massey.

 

[Mcohn7]

Do they? MC had an amazing team, but outside of #25 Basha, AZ they are 2-3 score underdogs against teams ranked 20-25 per Massey.

I'm just talking about recruits/ top end talent. Obviously don't know how that translates on the field but you look at teams ranked 20-25 and MC has more 4 star and 3 star recruits than some of those teams in class of 26 and 27. There are 8 guys on the team with high end offers: Mpouma, Jones, Quinn, Brown, Igwebuike, Burrell, Harrington, Tucker.

 

[FootballDad1979]

High School national rankings are a joke. Its all speculation. St John Bosco is ranked #10 in the nation but lost to a 3-10 team. St Frances Academy is ranked #3 but lost to St John Bosco.

Last night you had a mythical National Championship game between St Frances and Corner Canyon. Game was in Baltimore at the Under Armour headquearters, both teams happen to be UA Schools.

It is all politics like everything else.

I would take my chances with Mt Carmel playing any of the teams ranked ahead of them in November playing at 63rd and Dante.

 

[4Afan]

High School national rankings are a joke. Its all speculation. St John Bosco is ranked #10 in the nation but lost to a 3-10 team. St Frances Academy is ranked #3 but lost to St John Bosco.

Last night you had a mythical National Championship game between St Frances and Corner Canyon. Game was in Baltimore at the Under Armour headquearters, both teams happen to be UA Schools.

It is all politics like everything else.

I would take my chances with Mt Carmel playing any of the teams ranked ahead of them in November playing at 63rd and Dante.

It's not speculation or politics, it's computers. Bosco going down was the biggest upset in the country this year. The team they lost to wasn't good but they also had to forfeit 2 games so they were really 5-8, still not good, but it speaks to the depth in California. You also can't base a season long top 25 based on one game, so St. Frances losing to Bosco doesn't mean they're not a better team overall.

 

[Still Missing34]

I'm just talking about recruits/ top end talent. Obviously don't know how that translates on the field but you look at teams ranked 20-25 and MC has more 4 star and 3 star recruits than some of those teams in class of 26 and 27. There are 8 guys on the team with high end offers: Mpouma, Jones, Quinn, Brown, Igwebuike, Burrell, Harrington, Tucker.

Those stars come with the tuition

 

[USD24]

Has Illinois high school fallen that far nationally? 25 years ago, Illinois routinely had teams ranked in the top 25 and even top ten nationally. In some years, there were as many as three Illinois teams that would be nationally ranked. What happened?

 

[4Afan]

Has Illinois high school fallen that far nationally? 25 years ago, Illinois routinely had teams ranked in the top 25 and even top ten nationally. In some years, there were as many as three Illinois teams that would be nationally ranked. What happened?

Looking back I think you have to question the national rankings back then more than you do now. Those were put out by the USA Today and I have no clue how they ranked teams because the internet was barely a thing and there's no way they were sending people to see all the teams they ranked. At least now there's computer algorithms and, in theory, they weigh teams equally depending on what criteria goes into the algorithms.

Here's a link of the USA Today top 25 from 1982-2005. While it's nice to see Morris at #16 in 2005, I'm not entirely sure how accurate that actually is.

USATODAY.com

 

[Mcohn7]

Has Illinois high school fallen that far nationally? 25 years ago, Illinois routinely had teams ranked in the top 25 and even top ten nationally. In some years, there were as many as three Illinois teams that would be nationally ranked. What happened?

Recruiting. Most of the schools that are nationally ranked recruit far more than any private school in the state and have access to far more talent. I lived down south for a while and was shocked at how rampant recruiting is at even average public schools. Teams suddenly get good overnight by shipping players in and providing free apartments and they don't even hide it. People that are engaging in the private v. public debate don't realize how significant recruiting is in states that have high level football. Down south the problem isn't private schools its all the public schools spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on head football coaches who recruit most of their roster. Head football coaches in Georgia, Texas, and Alabama make 200k a year at top programs and only coach.

 

[jha618]

High School national rankings are a joke. Its all speculation. St John Bosco is ranked #10 in the nation but lost to a 3-10 team. St Frances Academy is ranked #3 but lost to St John Bosco.

Last night you had a mythical National Championship game between St Frances and Corner Canyon. Game was in Baltimore at the Under Armour headquearters, both teams happen to be UA Schools.

It is all politics like everything else.

I would take my chances with Mt Carmel playing any of the teams ranked ahead of them in November playing at 63rd and Dante.

All 3-9 records arent the same. You should check out Orange Lutherans schedule.

 

[4Afan]

Recruiting. Most of the schools that are nationally ranked recruit far more than any private school in the state and have access to far more talent. I lived down south for a while and was shocked at how rampant recruiting is at even average public schools. Teams suddenly get good overnight by shipping players in and providing free apartments and they don't even hide it. People that are engaging in the private v. public debate don't realize how significant recruiting is in states that have high level football. Down south the problem isn't private schools its all the public schools spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on head football coaches who recruit most of their roster. Head football coaches in Georgia, Texas, and Alabama make 200k a year at top programs and only coach.

Sounds like you have it backwards, at least according to this article in terms of public/private in the south.

Andy's Take: Public vs. Private athletics debate isn't new, despite recent calls for change

The ongoing public versus private school athletics debate rages on as more calls for change begin to spring up around the country

www.on3.com

 

[Mcohn7]

Sounds like you have it backwards, at least according to this article in terms of public/private in the south.

https://www.on3.com/high-school/new...ate-athletics-debate-isnt-new-despite-recent-

Sounds like you have it backwards, at least according to this article in terms of public/private in the south.

Andy's Take: Public vs. Private athletics debate isn't new, despite recent calls for change

The ongoing public versus private school athletics debate rages on as more calls for change begin to spring up around the country

www.on3.com

I don't think I have it backwards as I've lived in these places and been around football. Florida is an exception. I'm talking about the states I listed. Georgia, Alabama, Texas. These states do not have successful private programs and the players are recruited to top public schools. Gainesville, Buford, Hoover, Thompson, Katy, Duncanville, Clay-Chalkville, Allen, Bixby. Look at the facilities at these places paid with with tax money. Look at the amount being spent on coaches. You have coaches hopping around going to coach at new schools and the whole roster from the last school follows them. There is more talent down there and public resources are actively used to build super teams. The point isn't about privates or public schools its about the fact that all of these are recruited super teams in the top 25 on a level that is not comparable in Illinois. East St. Louis and MC may be the worst offenders in state but it's just not the same.

 

[KasanteMC]

It's not just this year. Illinois has never been a top tier state for football.

The LWE game or lack of depth in 8A has nothing to do with their ranking.

There is no path, hypothetical or real in Illinois that would have put MC within shouting distance of Gorman or IMG.

Outside of ESL there is no win in Illinois that MC could have that would move the needle nationally.

An ESL win wouldn't even have mattered this year. They didn't beat a solid team all year. In-state or Out of state.

 

[4Afan]

An ESL win wouldn't even have mattered this year. They didn't beat a solid team all year. In-state or Out of state.

You're most likely correct, but for some reason I feel like ESL was in the 30's nationally going into the title game. Could be wrong but for some reason that range sticks out to me.

 

[MC63]

Playing a competitive game and still losing will do alot for them in terms of national recognition and rankings.

And an eighth seed in the IHSA playoffs.

 

[MC63]

High School national rankings are a joke. Its all speculation.

Howe true. Frankly, my only concern her, is Illinois.

 

[jha618]

And an eighth seed in the IHSA playoffs.

Your obsession is getting pretty concerning at this point.

 

[Doctor_D]

I don't think I have it backwards as I've lived in these places and been around football. Florida is an exception. I'm talking about the states I listed. Georgia, Alabama, Texas. These states do not have successful private programs and the players are recruited to top public schools. Gainesville, Buford, Hoover, Thompson, Katy, Duncanville, Clay-Chalkville, Allen, Bixby. Look at the facilities at these places paid with with tax money. Look at the amount being spent on coaches. You have coaches hopping around going to coach at new schools and the whole roster from the last school follows them. There is more talent down there and public resources are actively used to build super teams. The point isn't about privates or public schools it’s about the fact that all of these are recruited super teams in the top 25 on a level that is not comparable in Illinois. East St. Louis and MC may be the worst offenders in state but it's just not the same.

I have a close friend from childhood that lives in the Dallas-Ft Worth area. He is a teacher, coached football for about 12 years, then got out of it, but still is an official. The public powers down there are much better than the privates, and there are all sorts of shenanigans in addition to the standard families moving to the local football factories.
On a national scale, the privates still would seem to hold the advantage with examples such as Bishop Gorman, IMG, the Trinity League in CA and basically the entire east coast.

 

[Topiarydan1]

My nephew graduated from Allen TX HS and they had almost 1800 Freshman (yes 1800) so of course some of the publics are going to rule
However when a school like Brownsburg IN (Indiana) is ranked 22 and MC is 29 it just makes you shake your head

 

[SiuCubFan8]

My nephew graduated from Allen TX HS and they had almost 1800 Freshman (yes 1800) so of course some of the publics are going to rule
However when a school like Brownsburg IN (Indiana) is ranked 22 and MC is 29 it just makes you shake your head

Have you seen Brownsburg, IN play?

 

[4Afan]

My nephew graduated from Allen TX HS and they had almost 1800 Freshman (yes 1800) so of course some of the publics are going to rule
However when a school like Brownsburg IN (Indiana) is ranked 22 and MC is 29 it just makes you shake your head

How do you know how good Brownsburg is? They can't be better than MC just because they're in Indiana, is that what you're saying? Massey has Brownsburg as a 6 point favorite.

 

[Caravan92]

Have you seen Brownsburg, IN play?

I took a detour when IL postponed 5-8A as I was driving up that way after spending Thanksgiving at my parents. Good QB and a few D1 recruits. MC would dominate both lines. Their lineman were small… the D1 Illinois State recruit on the offense was 6’5 280 and on Defense their D1 lineman was 6’4 260. I walked away from that game saying something similar after seeing LWE for the first time in person. Talked to some players parents, funny thing is they all thought the Head Coach (John Hart) was HC @mc previously. They said weeks 1 & 2 are open next year. I think they start one week earlier and I honestly don’t think it would be a competitive game all depending on how MC’s first year starting QB performs. Just my .02

 

[Cross Bones]

They can't be better than MC just because they're in Indiana, is that what you're saying?

Yes.

 

[Doctor_D]

My nephew graduated from Allen TX HS and they had almost 1800 Freshman (yes 1800) so of course some of the publics are going to rule
However when a school like Brownsburg IN (Indiana) is ranked 22 and MC is 29 it just makes you shake your head

Allen is huge and Duncanville is like 4k students, but DeSoto and Southlake Carroll are around 2000.

 

[Topiarydan1]

Duncanville beat the X out of Allen tonite

 

[Topiarydan1]

Yes.

I echo what Caravan said - I watched some online tape and looked who the competition was and its a no brainer MC would handle Brownsburg just like they did LWE

 

[Jenny27]

This whole thread is a moot point now, correct? Now that MC is #21?

 

[4Afan]

This whole thread is a moot point now, correct? Now that MC is #21?

That's the sports illustrated rankings, they're 29 in the rivals composite ranking.

 

[Topiarydan1]

My final ranking would have MC at 14 nationally - Brownsburg at 23.

 

[4Afan]

My final ranking would have MC at 14 nationally - Brownsburg at 23.

What exactly are you basing your rankings on??? Rivals composite has them at 29, sports illustrated has them at 21, Massey has them at 30, and MaxPreps has them at 55. What do you know that everyone else doesn't?

 

[Topiarydan1]

What exactly are you basing your rankings on??? Rivals composite has them at 29, sports illustrated has them at 21, Massey has them at 30, and MaxPreps has them at 55. What do you know that everyone else doesn't?

Have watched their game films and the teams they played (Moeller on road - LWE and their QB, etc)- have seen the other in front of them - MC has 14 guys with D1 schoolies. That's what I base them on. 14-0 in 8A