Wins aren’t important this year

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

8 wins, 10 wins, 12 wins. What’s the difference? I’m not worried about wins this year.

Everyone should have seen a tough season coming a mile away. We needed to replace two lottery picks on a 15 win team. We did not adequately do so, due to lack of NIL.
We are a jump shooting team that can’t jump shoot. We need more kids who can drive to the basket and finish or draw fouls. The defense, which is what we were going to hang out hat on, isn’t that great. Lastly, we aren’t getting much productivity from the Center position.

So what we are left with, is a trainwreck of a season, which was fully expected. Our Vegas results confirm the season we are in for. Subsequent results confirm more of the same.

Big Ten Basketball is tough, because most teams have money. You can’t win with smoke and mirrors in the Big Ten. You either have The players or you don’t. This year, we don’t have enough good players. So we are rebuilding.

In looking at the schedule, it’s tough to see where the wins are coming from. So the focus should be on building the foundation. Zrno, Mark, Powers, and Nwuli should gradually see their playing time increase. Then next year, we’ll need to raise NIL to get more quality players in here.

 

[RUDivision]

I would play and start the freshman as much as possible and get good tape for evaluation.
Next years HC will need to make decisions on who they want to include as flute core of their team moving forward.

 

[dpwhite]

I would play and start the freshman as much as possible and get good tape for evaluation.
Next years HC will need to make decisions on who they want to include as flute core of their team moving forward.

I love this response because you are assuming:

a) Pikiell is getting fired
b) Pikiell won't try to not get fired
c) Pikiell knows he's getting fired and would try to help the next coach out

(Of course you also said "Next year's coach" and I assume that could mean Pikiell too, but...c'mon)

 

[RC80]

Agree....cause there won't be many; but really want to see -- competitive. And really - are they getting better. Can't make that judgement against the last two teams - and we knew that; they looked lost and unprepared against CCSU but looked good against an undermanned (too bad it happens) UNLV. Can't look lost & uncompetitive on Saturday as well as against Penn. But do agree with playing Mark, Powers & Nwuli - even with the mistakes.

 

[RUfrom NJ]

Year 10.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

I would play and start the freshman as much as possible and get good tape for evaluation.
Next years HC will need to make decisions on who they want to include as flute core of their team moving forward.

The focus is on getting Pike the support he needs to be more successful. This year we are going to bottom out, but there won’t be coaching changes. Next year we have to show improvement.

 

[RUDiddy777]

Silly post. Wins are always important - but the hysterics from the usual suspects over the last 2 is more a cry for help than a rational assessment. We put 7 freshman against a team filled with NBA talent. The result was the same as all of their opponents this season

But, if team goes 0-20 in B1G play, it will be time to move on - and I say this as someone who hopes Pike can get it going and is here another 10 years. There are winnable games on the schedule.

If this team goes 7-13 in B1G play, they’re in the same spot USC was last year.

 

[LeapinLou]

I don't agree. You have to play the guys that give you the best chance to win. The difference between 12-19 and 8-23 is big. There's no reason why they can't beat Del State, Penn and 5 league games to get to 12.

By the end of the season, he'll know what guys he wants to retain and where he needs to fill gaps. Hopefully, he'll have the money.

 

[bac2therac]

The focus is on getting Pike the support he needs to be more successful. This year we are going to bottom out, but there won’t be coaching changes. Next year we have to show improvement.

lol no next year he has to go from 10-22 to 22-10 and a ncaa bid

 

[DC8690]

8 wins, 10 wins, 12 wins. What’s the difference? I’m not worried about wins this year.

Everyone should have seen a tough season coming a mile away. We needed to replace two lottery picks on a 15 win team. We did not adequately do so, due to lack of NIL.
We are a jump shooting team that can’t jump shoot. We need more kids who can drive to the basket and finish or draw fouls. The defense, which is what we were going to hang out hat on, isn’t that great. Lastly, we aren’t getting much productivity from the Center position.

So what we are left with, is a trainwreck of a season, which was fully expected. Our Vegas results confirm the season we are in for. Subsequent results confirm more of the same.

Big Ten Basketball is tough, because most teams have money. You can’t win with smoke and mirrors in the Big Ten. You either have The players or you don’t. This year, we don’t have enough good players. So we are rebuilding.

In looking at the schedule, it’s tough to see where the wins are coming from. So the focus should be on building the foundation. Zrno, Mark, Powers, and Nwuli should gradually see their playing time increase. Then next year, we’ll need to raise NIL to get more quality players in here.

Agreed except for Mark, I just don't see him being a contributor in the Big, - I hope I am wrong.

 

[RUBlackout]

In the age of the portal there is now rebuild years anymore…you need to reload and produce wins. You heard it straight from Tate and Zinn that it’s all about winning. Not next year. Now! We can all agree these programs haven’t been funded properly but it’s in the coaches to find different ways to win and why they get paid what they do.

last year everyone expected more and we were let down. Now we are in year 10 and every stat will tell you we are on a decline and the red flags are there. If winning isn’t important to
Those in charge than we have bigger problems

 

[Mholinko]

In the age of the portal there is now rebuild years anymore…you need to reload and produce wins. You heard it straight from Tate and Zinn that it’s all about winning. Not next year. Now! We can all agree these programs haven’t been funded properly but it’s in the coaches to find different ways to win and why they get paid what they do.

last year everyone expected more and we were let down. Now we are in year 10 and every stat will tell you we are on a decline and the red flags are there. If winning isn’t important to
Those in charge than we have bigger problems

I heard a talking head a week or so ago in relation to football state there is no rebuilding anymore if you have the right coach and right quarterback you’re BUILDING never rebuilding and if you’re missing one you have nothing

in basketball and in this case college basketball I would equate it to … head coach AD and retention

If you have the right coach and an AD providing proper support and can retain a couple core pieces every year there is no more rebuild … it’s a year to year sport and there’s no room or time for 3-5 year processes

one year turn arounds are the norm now and new hires don’t get 10 years to figure it out so we have to operate the same

 

[Waldo73]

RU was NOT that good, even with lottery pics!

 

[cRURah]

coach built this team of misfits and wasted any $$ he did have. terrible player evaluation.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

In the age of the portal there is now rebuild years anymore…you need to reload and produce wins. You heard it straight from Tate and Zinn that it’s all about winning. Not next year. Now! We can all agree these programs haven’t been funded properly but it’s in the coaches to find different ways to win and why they get paid what they do.

last year everyone expected more and we were let down. Now we are in year 10 and every stat will tell you we are on a decline and the red flags are there. If winning isn’t important to
Those in charge than we have bigger problems

There’s no rebuilds if you have money. Since we don’t have money, this is a rebuild.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

Agreed except for Mark, I just don't see him being a contributor in the Big, - I hope I am wrong.

Lino isn’t playing with confidence, yet. Very tentative and needs to acclimate. Will be much better in March.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

I heard a talking head a week or so ago in relation to football state there is no rebuilding anymore if you have the right coach and right quarterback you’re BUILDING never rebuilding and if you’re missing one you have nothing

in basketball and in this case college basketball I would equate it to … head coach AD and retention

If you have the right coach and an AD providing proper support and can retain a couple core pieces every year there is no more rebuild … it’s a year to year sport and there’s no room or time for 3-5 year processes

one year turn arounds are the norm now and new hires don’t get 10 years to figure it out so we have to operate the same

It’s AD, retention, and NIL money to fill in gaps.

 

[RUDiddy777]

lol no next year he has to go from 10-22 to 22-10 and a ncaa bid

Agreed. This season is a write off. But we can’t start over from 2016 either.

 

[bac2therac]

There’s no rebuilds if you have money. Since we don’t have money, this is a rebuild.

He wont be given that opportunity nor should he deserve it

He will be fired either this year or next

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

He wont be given that opportunity nor should he deserve it

He will be fired either this year or next

i spoke to Kelli myself, and believe he and Schiano will get a fair opportunity to turn things around.
Obviously, next year can't be the same stinker this year was. incremental growth is a fair expectation.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

coach built this team of misfits and wasted any $$ he did have. terrible player evaluation.

you're not always going to find good values in the bargain bin, but we had no choice. Can't shop at Saks with a Walmart Budget.

 

[bac2therac]

i spoke to Kelli myself, and believe he and Schiano will get a fair opportunity to turn things around.
Obviously, next year can't be the same stinker this year was. incremental growth is a fair expectation.

going 15-17, 15-17, 10-22 and 15-17 will not get him a return ticket after 11 years

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

lol no next year he has to go from 10-22 to 22-10 and a ncaa bid

If he only wins 10 games this year, he probably should be done, in my opinion, before he gets that chance. I don’t know that he would be, but to keep his job, he should have to come close to the 14 win mark he’s produced every year he’s been at Rutgers so far.

That threshold isn’t arbirtrary. Pike did kind of do (in theory) what your suggesting at rutgers. We went from 14-17 to 20-11 pre BIG tourney from 2018-19 to 2019-20. 10 wins and 14 wins are very different. We don’t have the data yet to be sure we’re locked in to 10 wins or less though.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

 

[JL23]

No need to play games if wins aren't important

 

[needmorecowbell]

going 15-17, 15-17, 10-22 and 15-17 will not get him a return ticket after 11 years

I agree. If this year is going to be bad, next year needs to be good. 26-27 needs to show major progress and a post season.

 

[RUChet]

Just an awful OP

Yes wins matter

And no you can't blame NIL on everything

CCSU beat us pretty easily with LESS NIL

A couple other of these very bad mid-majors gave us all we could handle at home and they all have less NIL

NIL doesn't create creative offensive sets
NIL doesn't set screens , double and triple screens
NIL doesn't run pick and roll
NIL doesn't have a plan and strategy for scoring
NIL doesn't cause you to needlessly dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, then throw up a shot

 

[Loyal-Son]

Just an awful OP

Yes wins matter

And no you can't blame NIL on everything

CCSU beat us pretty easily with LESS NIL

A couple other of these very bad mid-majors gave us all we could handle at home and they all have less NIL

NIL doesn't create creative offensive sets
NIL doesn't set screens , double and triple screens
NIL doesn't run pick and roll
NIL doesn't have a plan and strategy for scoring
NIL doesn't cause you to needlessly dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, then throw up a shot

Cherry-picking stats does not make for a very convincing argument. it is called confirmation bias.

 

[RUDiddy777]

If he only wins 10 games this year, he probably should be done, in my opinion, before he gets that chance. I don’t know that he would be, but to keep his job, he should have to come close to the 14 win mark he’s produced every year he’s been at Rutgers so far.

That threshold isn’t arbirtrary. Pike did kind of do (in theory) what you’re suggesting at rutgers. We went from 14-17 to 20-11 pre BIG tourney from 2018-19 to 2019-20. 10 wins and 14 wins are very different. We don’t have the data yet to be sure we’re locked in to 10 wins or less though.

Agreed. At that point he won’t be able to retain nor attract talent and he’ll basically be a dead man walking.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

going 15-17, 15-17, 10-22 and 15-17 will not get him a return ticket after 11 years

Do you really think he’ll be back if we only win 10 games? That’d be truly awful. That’d mean we lose at least 14 out of the remaining 18 conference games, lose tomorrow at SHU and also lose to one of the weaker BIG teams in the extreme outbracket game. I don’t think he would survive that

 

[RUBlackout]

Just an awful OP

Yes wins matter

And no you can't blame NIL on everything

CCSU beat us pretty easily with LESS NIL

A couple other of these very bad mid-majors gave us all we could handle at home and they all have less NIL

NIL doesn't create creative offensive sets
NIL doesn't set screens , double and triple screens
NIL doesn't run pick and roll
NIL doesn't have a plan and strategy for scoring
NIL doesn't cause you to needlessly dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, then throw up a shot

As I like to call our offensive plan ; movement without action

 

[EddieWilsonLives]

I would play and start the freshman as much as possible and get good tape for evaluation.
Next years HC will need to make decisions on who they want to include as flute core of their team moving forward.

You give them a good tape for their next paycheck elsewhere

 

[bac2therac]

Do you really think he’ll be back if we only win 10 games? That’d be truly awful. That’d mean we lose at least 14 out of the remaining 18 conference games, lose tomorrow at SHU and also lose to one of the weaker BIG teams in the extreme outbracket game. I don’t think he would survive that

Yes unfortunately even at 10

I am thinking 12 wins this year

 

[Anon1754923206]

Yes unfortunately even at 10

I am thinking 12 wins this year

So not quite littlepaige bad?

 

[RutgersAl]

going 15-17, 15-17, 10-22 and 15-17 will not get him a return ticket after 11 years

BAC:

I don’t know what you’re expecting when we have no money.

10-22, 15-17, 19-13, 22-10 is a realistic expectation. Kids need time to grow.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yes unfortunately even at 10

I am thinking 12 wins this year

12 certainly very possible and closer (halfway) to that 14 level. Again, 14 still stinks, but my point was only that it’s at least arguably in Pike’s already established year over year “rebound range” (I’m making up the term obviously). I get it - he only did it once and in a different landscape, but it did happen - so keeping him in that case not quite as embarrassing say as it was when we retained Ash that final offseason. Winning only 4 more games other than Del State would be a new low for him (a clear one) and a signal that the kids we brought in are not developing for the future. We lack talent, but the bottom half of the conference isn’t that good this year either. Recruiting and Kenpom aside (I’ve seen Maryland, PSU, Minny, Oregon, etc.) If we can’t find a way to hit a minimum threshold of 4-5 at home and win a single true road game (Del State win would get us to 11), and even still, get another chance for another win against a bad team on a neutral floor to close out the season… in that case, well, to me the outlook would just feel too hopeless to bring Pike back.

Oh, I forgot about the Penn game…

 

[yesrutgers01]

NIL money or not- if Pike is here, we are not going to get the players- he sucked with 2 NBA lottery picks and sucks even worse with his follow-up. And people could live with it if...he had a 1 and done year with the two stars last year- had a great run with them but the follow-up year was bad because we lost them. Or - if this year's team was even close to competitive.
Why would anyone be giving up NIL money to a coach that has no clue what to do with it in the first place?

Pike IS the issue.

 

[RutgersAl]

NIL money or not- if Pike is here, we are not going to get the players- he sucked with 2 NBA lottery picks and sucks even worse with his follow-up. And people could live with it if...he had a 1 and done year with the two stars last year- had a great run with them but the follow-up year was bad because we lost them. Or - if this year's team was even close to competitive.
Why would anyone be giving up NIL money to a coach that has no clue what to do with it in the first place?

Pike IS the issue.

More so in basketball, you can’t get the best basketball players without NIL. Players are less likely to fall through the cracks because there are fewer of them.

Look at our opponents transfer class and look at ours. For at least 3 years there has been a significant drop off in quality from theirs to ours. Maryland gets a good portion of its transfers from decent basketball schools. We’re getting our transfers from NJIT because the alumni base doesn’t care enough to support success. At least in football we raised $9M - $10M for our upcoming transfer class, so at least we should be an able to bring in a class that can compete. We need the same in basketball.

 

[yesrutgers01]

More so in basketball, you can’t get the best basketball players without NIL. Players are less likely to fall through the cracks because there are fewer of them.

Look at our opponents transfer class and look at ours. For at least 3 years there has been a significant drop off in quality from theirs to ours. Maryland gets a good portion of its transfers from decent basketball schools. We’re getting our transfers from NJIT because the alumni base doesn’t care enough to support success. At least in football we raised $9M - $10M for our upcoming transfer class, so at least we should be an able to bring in a class that can compete. We need the same in basketball.

I get it- but my point is the Pike did nothing and worse than nothing to help "His" cause last year. 2 NBA stars handed to him by two large corporations. And Pike couldn't figure out how to find any sort of complimentary players to mix in. Even with his limited NIL for the remaining team- he used those limited funds on the wrong complementary players. And then, he couldn't pivot outside of his comfort zone to do anything once he had them here.
Sure- we don't have the NIL of the other teams but if we did, what many are saying and I am agreeing- Pike is not the coach to make it work
Pre-NIL - he did figure it out...But that is no longer the world he coaches in and he is out of his league.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

NIL money or not- if Pike is here, we are not going to get the players- he sucked with 2 NBA lottery picks and sucks even worse with his follow-up. And people could live with it if...he had a 1 and done year with the two stars last year- had a great run with them but the follow-up year was bad because we lost them. Or - if this year's team was even close to competitive.
Why would anyone be giving up NIL money to a coach that has no clue what to do with it in the first place?

Pike IS the issue.

I’m not saying this will ultimately be wrong, but, if hypothetically we were to do a bit better than projected - let’s for now define that realistic ceiling at 7-13 in conf, beat Penn and Del State, win an outbracket game in BIG tourney to clog in at 15 wins… Not a pretty best case scenario, BUT, if he were to succeed in retaining a nucleus of kids who showed growth throughout a season where we demonstrate incremental improvement - you might be able to sell one or two higher level transfers.

I’m not implying any of this is likely - only that when it comes to next season’s outlook trajectory - 10 wins very different from 14+ for Pike. The closer he gets to 14 wins, the stronger the argument IMO that he deserves one more chance.