A 4-2-5 fits our current roster better

[inWV]

A fair number of Dlinemen who are not a fit for a 3 man front, but there are more potential answers/combos for a four man front. In addition, NU has a pretty stuffed DB room. What does a guy like MaGahee do. Is he just a Jack LB, or can he work as an LB in the new dude's system. Bower, Merritt and V9 carry over and with only two LBs as starters, that room looks pretty decent already. Big advantage to the new guy being here for bowl prep is that he can lay eyes on the roster carrying forward and see what holes he thinks need to be filled.
Rhule stands behind that DL room and thinks they are capable of more productive play. At the end of the day, it's his fault for how Butler used those guys. He thought he wanted the odd/even front capability (don't know if that's on offer now) of White's 3-3-5, but in reality, he liked the mob style, havoc creating defense that White offered.

 

[Redscarlet]

A fair number of Dlinemen who are not a fit for a 3 man front, but there are more potential answers/combos for a four man front. In addition, NU has a pretty stuffed DB room. What does a guy like MaGahee do. Is he just a Jack LB, or can he work as an LB in the new dude's system. Bower, Merritt and V9 carry over and with only two LBs as starters, that room looks pretty decent already. Big advantage to the new guy being here for bowl prep is that he can lay eyes on the roster carrying forward and see what holes he thinks need to be filled.
Rhule stands behind that DL room and thinks they are capable of more productive play. At the end of the day, it's his fault for how Butler used those guys. He thought he wanted the odd/even front capability (don't know if that's on offer now) of White's 3-3-5, but in reality, he liked the mob style, havoc creating defense that White offered.

I didn’t like the idea that he just made Butler the DC coordinator after White left and after the bowl game.

He should have had another hire for DC and a year later we now do.

 

[dinglefritz]

I didn’t like the idea that he just made Butler the DC coordinator after White left and after the bowl game.

He should have had another hire for DC and a year later we now do.

Sometimes the timing just isn’t right for certain moves. I’ve said for many years, timing in life is everything. Being in the right place at the right time can dramatically change your life. I have no doubt Rhule explored other options than Butler as DC. Obviously, at the time he didn’t find another guy he thought would be better. After the bowl game most of us were thinking yeah this can work. It’s very easy to criticize it now.

 

[TruHusker]

From articles I read, Butler was popular with the players and they urged Rhule to give him a chance. There was a reason Butler has been wanting to be a D coordinator for 10 years with no takers. His one year at PSU was not enough to know. He will catch on somewhere with his DB coaching skills.

Too much is made of a 3, 4 or 5 man front. They move guys all around, bring linebackers up and playing a rush end. Look at what Michigan did to us with two linebackers as rush ends. Did that make them a 5 man front or 3? We do seem to have some guys at the LB position, I would guess that some of them are going to be outside rushers or we lose them in the portal.

I sure wouldn't say our DB room is loaded. Lots of numbers perhaps Odom gets some serious playing time which will help. There simply is not the experience to go with the crowded numbers. Hartzog, at 180 lbs comes back as a safety, not exactly a run stopper safety. Moved there because of his lack of ability to cover at corner. IMHO, the DB room has a lot to prove next year.

 

[Pennsyhuskers]

Sometimes the timing just isn’t right for certain moves. I’ve said for many years, timing in life is everything. Being in the right place at the right time can dramatically change your life. I have no doubt Rhule explored other options than Butler as DC. Obviously, at the time he didn’t find another guy he thought would be better. After the bowl game most of us were thinking yeah this can work. It’s very easy to criticize it now.

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20. But there were a lot of us questioning the hire even then. I am not as certain as you are that Rhule did shop around before “settling” on Butler. He probably thought continuity was a big deal and so promoting from within appealed to him on that level.

It was not a good hire since what we needed was an infusion of top shelf coaching talent and not a journeyman retread who hadn’t done much anywhere. We needed the same sense of urgency back then as we have now.

If the “timing” just wasn’t right, as you say (but why?) then Rhule could have just made Butler an interim DC pending a search. I really don’t think Rhule expended much energy and turned over every rock, on a search.

 

[BugsAreQualityProtein]

From articles I read, Butler was popular with the players and they urged Rhule to give him a chance. There was a reason Butler has been wanting to be a D coordinator for 10 years with no takers. His one year at PSU was not enough to know. He will catch on somewhere with his DB coaching skills.

Too much is made of a 3, 4 or 5 man front. They move guys all around, bring linebackers up and playing a rush end. Look at what Michigan did to us with two linebackers as rush ends. Did that make them a 5 man front or 3? We do seem to have some guys at the LB position, I would guess that some of them are going to be outside rushers or we lose them in the portal.

If you are running a true 3 man front you need a NT that can clog up both the A gaps. DEs on the larger size are preferable too.

 

[inWV]

Sometimes the timing just isn’t right for certain moves. I’ve said for many years, timing in life is everything. Being in the right place at the right time can dramatically change your life. I have no doubt Rhule explored other options than Butler as DC. Obviously, at the time he didn’t find another guy he thought would be better. After the bowl game most of us were thinking yeah this can work. It’s very easy to criticize it now.

We didn't have the players, at least at this time in their development, to play primarily 3 down against competent running teams in the B1G. Rhule didn't want to tinker. I think what he really liked is the havoc that White's defenses featured. I think he sees that now.
The real secret sauce behind NU's decades of dominance was continuity in coaching and that actually carried through from when Devaney showed up through Solich being cashiered. Assistants leaving here and there, but real continuity in terms of principle staff. NU had the luxury of evolving and optimizing offense and defense and knowing what players to recruit/develop for success. The churn of coaches is higher now, but the successful head coaches manage to get offenses and defenses that work for them and "recruit" assistants to carry those plans out.

 

[dinglefritz]

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20. But there were a lot of us questioning the hire even then. I am not as certain as you are that Rhule did shop around before “settling” on Butler. He probably thought continuity was a big deal and so promoting from within appealed to him on that level.

It was not a good hire since what we needed was an infusion of top shelf coaching talent and not a journeyman retread who hadn’t done much anywhere. We needed the same sense of urgency back then as we have now.

If the “timing” just wasn’t right, as you say (but why?) then Rhule could have just made Butler an interim DC pending a search. I really don’t think Rhule expended much energy and turned over every rock, on a search.

He did make him an interim DC at first. There might have been other guys he was interested in but the timing wasn’t right FOR THEM. My son passed on several promotion opportunities in the past year because the timing was wrong for a guy with a pregnant wife and several small kids. Sometimes, heck often, family considerations outweigh career aspirations. It certainly did for me.

 

[Baxter48]

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20. But there were a lot of us questioning the hire even then. I am not as certain as you are that Rhule did shop around before “settling” on Butler. He probably thought continuity was a big deal and so promoting from within appealed to him on that level.

It was not a good hire since what we needed was an infusion of top shelf coaching talent and not a journeyman retread who hadn’t done much anywhere. We needed the same sense of urgency back then as we have now.

If the “timing” just wasn’t right, as you say (but why?) then Rhule could have just made Butler an interim DC pending a search. I really don’t think Rhule expended much energy and turned over every rock, on a search.

The hiring of Braden was the real head scratcher, then he had the d line lose weight to get down around 275-290 instead of 320-340, in the big 10 your just asking to get your *** kicked

 

[dinglefritz]

The hiring of Braden was the real head scratcher, then he had the d line lose weight to get down around 275-290 instead of 320-340, in the big 10 your just asking to get your *** kicked

Where did you hear that he had them lose weight? I don’t believe a conscious effort was made to make our DTs smaller.

 

[mgbreeze]

The hiring of Braden was the real head scratcher, then he had the d line lose weight to get down around 275-290 instead of 320-340, in the big 10 your just asking to get your *** kicked

I'd like to know what RVP etc really weighed at the end of the season. They got pushed around like they weighed 275 at the MOST. If it's true they watched Nash and Ty walk out and then looked at their guys and said "lose weight" they are dumb.

 

[dinglefritz]

I'd like to know what RVP etc really weighed at the end of the season. They got pushed around like they weighed 275 at the MOST. If it's true they watched Nash and Ty walk out and then looked at their guys and said "lose weight" they are dumb.

Multiple former players have admitted to starting the year at around 300 but dropping under 275 by mid season. Some guys have trouble keeping the weight on. I think it was Steinkuhler who said he played DT for Bo at 265 during the season.

 

[mgbreeze]

Multiple former players have admitted to starting the year at around 300 but dropping under 275 by mid season. Some guys have trouble keeping the weight on. I think it was Steinkuhler who said he played DT for Bo at 265 during the season.

It's really hard to keep weight on during the season, especially weight that you worked really hard to put on. A million years ago I'd struggle all summer to put on 10-15 pounds and it would be gone after two weeks of two-a-days.

 

[inWV]

Where did you hear that he had them lose weight? I don’t believe a conscious effort was made to make our DTs smaller.

I can imagine younger dudes on the DL having more trouble keep weight on during the season. I think RVP, Moore, and George are well suited at DTs in a 4 man front. The Hoffken kid is intriguing. He is a very big kid.

 

[dinglefritz]

It's really hard to keep weight on during the season, especially weight that you worked really hard to put on. A million years ago I'd struggle all summer to put on 10-15 pounds and it would be gone after two weeks of two-a-days.

You just get to a point where food doesn’t even taste good when you’re so worn out.

 

[dinglefritz]

If you are running a true 3 man front you need a NT that can clog up both the A gaps. DEs on the larger size are preferable too.

I still would like to see Big Mac at DT instead of the 4th option at OG. His body screams NT

 

[mgbreeze]

We definitely need to bring in DT talent. I don't care what scheme we run, we CAN'T run it back with the same guys after the season they just put on tape.

 

[SuperBigFan69]

From articles I read, Butler was popular with the players and they urged Rhule to give him a chance. There was a reason Butler has been wanting to be a D coordinator for 10 years with no takers. His one year at PSU was not enough to know. He will catch on somewhere with his DB coaching skills.

Too much is made of a 3, 4 or 5 man front. They move guys all around, bring linebackers up and playing a rush end. Look at what Michigan did to us with two linebackers as rush ends. Did that make them a 5 man front or 3? We do seem to have some guys at the LB position, I would guess that some of them are going to be outside rushers or we lose them in the portal.

I sure wouldn't say our DB room is loaded. Lots of numbers perhaps Odom gets some serious playing time which will help. There simply is not the experience to go with the crowded numbers. Hartzog, at 180 lbs comes back as a safety, not exactly a run stopper safety. Moved there because of his lack of ability to cover at corner. IMHO, the DB room has a lot to prove next year.

I ran a 3 man front for years...and that 3 man front ended up having 5 guys on the line around 90% of the time.

I swear a lot of fans think the defense can't move players around.

 

[BugsAreQualityProtein]

I still would like to see Big Mac at DT instead of the 4th option at OG. His body screams NT

Yeah I could see him being a better fit at DT. I believe he will be a good run blocker but I’m not sure he has the length to get good leverage in pass protection.

 

[king_kong__]

Sometimes the timing just isn’t right for certain moves. I’ve said for many years, timing in life is everything. Being in the right place at the right time can dramatically change your life. I have no doubt Rhule explored other options than Butler as DC. Obviously, at the time he didn’t find another guy he thought would be better. After the bowl game most of us were thinking yeah this can work. It’s very easy to criticize it now.

butler was made DC in waiting upon his arrival before last season

it's the only way rhule could hire him 60 days prior to the 2024 season kicking off

we didn't shop around one bit. the move was already made and it's part of the reason TW left on such tense terms.

 

[Redscarlet]

He did make him an interim DC at first. There might have been other guys he was interested in but the timing wasn’t right FOR THEM. My son passed on several promotion opportunities in the past year because the timing was wrong for a guy with a pregnant wife and several small kids. Sometimes, heck often, family considerations outweigh career aspirations. It certainly did for me.

He had no choice entering the Pinstripe bowl to make him interim DC .

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

butler was made DC in waiting upon his arrival before last season

it's the only way rhule could hire him 60 days prior to the 2024 season kicking off

we didn't shop around one bit. the move was already made and it's part of the reason TW left on such tense terms.

Can I get a link to this story? Sounds like conjecture

 

[o_runningback43]

If you are running a true 3 man front you need a NT that can clog up both the A gaps. DEs on the larger size are preferable too.

Even in a true 3 man front you can 1 gap the NT and not have him be a 2 gap player. NT takes the call side A gap, Will LB takes weak side A gap.

 

[dinglefritz]

butler was made DC in waiting upon his arrival before last season

it's the only way rhule could hire him 60 days prior to the 2024 season kicking off

we didn't shop around one bit. the move was already made and it's part of the reason TW left on such tense terms.

I don’t know and you don’t know if he was the “DC in waiting”. I DO know he wasn’t announced as the permanent DC right after TW left. IF he was “in waiting”, why wait so long to announce him as the permanent hire?

 

[inWV]

I don’t know and you don’t know if he was the “DC in waiting”. I DO know he wasn’t announced as the permanent DC right after TW left. IF he was “in waiting”, why wait so long to announce him as the permanent hire?

University press release says he was named DC on 12/10/2024. Not interim for the bowl game. I think most of us didn't bother with any of the notices because he was, at the time, coordinating the defense for the bowl game, and we were not hearing of any other names. So they didn't really wait that long.

 

[TruHusker]

University press release says he was named DC on 12/10/2024. Not interim for the bowl game. I think most of us didn't bother with any of the notices because he was, at the time, coordinating the defense for the bowl game, and we were not hearing of any other names. So they didn't really wait that long.

And, according to the banter in this board, he was tabbed as a genius for his D against Boston College. How did that turn out?

 

[Anon1752115983]

A fair number of Dlinemen who are not a fit for a 3 man front, but there are more potential answers/combos for a four man front. In addition, NU has a pretty stuffed DB room. What does a guy like MaGahee do. Is he just a Jack LB, or can he work as an LB in the new dude's system. Bower, Merritt and V9 carry over and with only two LBs as starters, that room looks pretty decent already. Big advantage to the new guy being here for bowl prep is that he can lay eyes on the roster carrying forward and see what holes he thinks need to be filled.
Rhule stands behind that DL room and thinks they are capable of more productive play. At the end of the day, it's his fault for how Butler used those guys. He thought he wanted the odd/even front capability (don't know if that's on offer now) of White's 3-3-5, but in reality, he liked the mob style, havoc creating defense that White offered.

Great post. My same thoughts.
Playing in high school 50 years ago, I thought we were "cutting edge" when we switched between a 4-3 and a 5-2. But it should not be that complicated for these million-dollar coaches who are around the players everyday

 

[inWV]

Great post. My same thoughts.
Playing in high school 50 years ago, I thought we were "cutting edge" when we switched between a 4-3 and a 5-2. But it should not be that complicated for these million-dollar coaches who are around the players everyday

I think there are 2 very good DEs and 2 very capable rotational DEs in Davis, Nwaneri, Cam L and Pietrzak. DT might need some portal work. I would think they will want to add a quality LB. I have no idea how the Jack LBs on the roster will fit in the 4-2-5 that Aurich runs.
Aurich is on a damn rocket ship ride as a coach. He was still playing linebacker at a D2 school in 2010, and went from LB/ST coach at Bemidji State to DC at a P4 school in 11 years. Very Pelini-esque in terms of rise. Bo was at GA at Iowa, then coached QBs at Cardinal Mooney in 1993, and was DC at NU 10 years later. But instead of coming up from D2, he came back from the NFL.

 

[Huskers12345]

I think there are 2 very good DEs and 2 very capable rotational DEs in Davis, Nwaneri, Cam L and Pietrzak. DT might need some portal work. I would think they will want to add a quality LB. I have no idea how the Jack LBs on the roster will fit in the 4-2-5 that Aurich runs.
Aurich is on a damn rocket ship ride as a coach. He was still playing linebacker at a D2 school in 2010, and went from LB/ST coach at Bemidji State to DC at a P4 school in 11 years. Very Pelini-esque in terms of rise. Bo was at GA at Iowa, then coached QBs at Cardinal Mooney in 1993, and was DC at NU 10 years later. But instead of coming up from D2, he came back from the NFL.

Which is why the Butler hire was so frustrating. He's the opposite. Inexperienced as a playcaller and no one saw him as a rising star. So you get a 50 year old guy learning on the fly with no recruiting base.

 

[inWV]

Which is why the Butler hire was so frustrating. He's the opposite. Inexperienced as a playcaller and no one saw him as a rising star. So you get a 50 year old guy learning on the fly with no recruiting base.

Bradden and Butler came from NFL backgrounds and were used to dealing with more experienced players on a daily basis before coming to Lincoln. I don't think NFL = bad, but whatever those two cooked up didn't work against B1G teams that feature disciplined running offenses. I wonder if anyone will attempt an autopsy of the situation.

 

[K Rod]

I think there are 2 very good DEs and 2 very capable rotational DEs in Davis, Nwaneri, Cam L and Pietrzak. DT might need some portal work. I would think they will want to add a quality LB. I have no idea how the Jack LBs on the roster will fit in the 4-2-5 that Aurich runs.
Aurich is on a damn rocket ship ride as a coach. He was still playing linebacker at a D2 school in 2010, and went from LB/ST coach at Bemidji State to DC at a P4 school in 11 years. Very Pelini-esque in terms of rise. Bo was at GA at Iowa, then coached QBs at Cardinal Mooney in 1993, and was DC at NU 10 years later. But instead of coming up from D2, he came back from the NFL.

Good point. I would think with the guys we have now, and adding portal help on the D line, that we will have depth which is important. When you have multiple guys who can play on the D line, you can rotate and keep guys fresh. As for the linebackers, having one less position to fill, there will be a lot of competition for those two spots. Steel sharpens steel. The defense could see a big improvement next year. The offense is what worries me. Thats a whole different deal.

 

[dinglefritz]

Bradden and Butler came from NFL backgrounds and were used to dealing with more experienced players on a daily basis before coming to Lincoln. I don't think NFL = bad, but whatever those two cooked up didn't work against B1G teams that feature disciplined running offenses. I wonder if anyone will attempt an autopsy of the situation.

I suspect it’s already been sliced and diced by the fact that we’re going to college guys for their replacements. Even Callahan seemed to know he needed college assistants.

 

[Killersker47]

I didn’t like the idea that he just made Butler the DC coordinator after White left and after the bowl game.

He should have had another hire for DC and a year later we now do.

The players were behind having Butler be the DC, so what do you do?..

 

[Laner2]

A fair number of Dlinemen who are not a fit for a 3 man front, but there are more potential answers/combos for a four man front. In addition, NU has a pretty stuffed DB room. What does a guy like MaGahee do. Is he just a Jack LB, or can he work as an LB in the new dude's system. Bower, Merritt and V9 carry over and with only two LBs as starters, that room looks pretty decent already. Big advantage to the new guy being here for bowl prep is that he can lay eyes on the roster carrying forward and see what holes he thinks need to be filled.
Rhule stands behind that DL room and thinks they are capable of more productive play. At the end of the day, it's his fault for how Butler used those guys. He thought he wanted the odd/even front capability (don't know if that's on offer now) of White's 3-3-5, but in reality, he liked the mob style, havoc creating defense that White offered.

It helps that the new guy also coaches LBs and has Ek on standby. Ek did a good job here with our LBs.

 

[konaki]

I'm no expert by any means but it seems we have the edge players on the DL, it's just the middle where the problem seems to be. You coach up a couple of players we know we have that are good players and then bring in a stud from the portal and it would make a world of difference stopping the run in my opinion. I just don't think our defense is a far off from being pretty good as some think, it's just going to take the right coaching and and adding a few new players.

 

[Kakdawg]

I didn’t like the idea that he just made Butler the DC coordinator after White left and after the bowl game.

He should have had another hire for DC and a year later we now do.

Again I was one of those guys who didn't like the hire. Thought it was a huge risk at the time. Luckily Rhule got that extension or that hire could've come back and bit him in the ***. Just glad he had enough sense to cut bait.




Holla

 

[Kakdawg]

Sometimes the timing just isn’t right for certain moves. I’ve said for many years, timing in life is everything. Being in the right place at the right time can dramatically change your life. I have no doubt Rhule explored other options than Butler as DC. Obviously, at the time he didn’t find another guy he thought would be better. After the bowl game most of us were thinking yeah this can work. It’s very easy to criticize it now.

Not me. I said it at the time. Even after the bowl. I was HOPING the presence of Phil and Williams being DCs would help but it didn't happen.


Holla

 

[Kakdawg]

We didn't have the players, at least at this time in their development, to play primarily 3 down against competent running teams in the B1G. Rhule didn't want to tinker. I think what he really liked is the havoc that White's defenses featured. I think he sees that now.
The real secret sauce behind NU's decades of dominance was continuity in coaching and that actually carried through from when Devaney showed up through Solich being cashiered. Assistants leaving here and there, but real continuity in terms of principle staff. NU had the luxury of evolving and optimizing offense and defense and knowing what players to recruit/develop for success. The churn of coaches is higher now, but the successful head coaches manage to get offenses and defenses that work for them and "recruit" assistants to carry those plans out.

I gotta say it... let's not forget all those good players they you maybe conveniently left out lol. They may have had something to do with that success as well lol.


Holla

 

[Kakdawg]

butler was made DC in waiting upon his arrival before last season

it's the only way rhule could hire him 60 days prior to the 2024 season kicking off

we didn't shop around one bit. the move was already made and it's part of the reason TW left on such tense terms.

Not gonna lie I always thought there was something to that. Nothing I heard or have on good account but I could see it. I could also see where the bringing in of Phil Snow would rub a DC the wrong way. Especially with him being like a "football father" to Rhule . With White doing as well as he had year one I could see why he would feel some type of way about someone looking over his shoulder. I think I would...



Holla

 

[Kakdawg]

Can I get a link to this story? Sounds like conjecture

It could be conjecture or not. Like you guys I haven't "heard that" BUT it absolutely would make sense.



Holla