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DAY AFTER REACTION -- Purdue

D

Degaz-RU

Heisman
Dec 19, 2002
22,311
26,535
88
seansherm said:
I'd more consider Dortch next to Ogbole in the front court. First, Ogbole isn't terrible on defense, he does struggle on the perimeter, and when he is dragged out there, there is no above avg defender help behind. He's, by far, our best rebounder and shot blocker.
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I actually have wondered if we could play Dortch and Ogbole together, but two things probably make it unlikely: first, we would basically be playing 3 on 5 on offense, as neither is a threat to score outside of the rim area, so our floor spacing would really suffer; second, they're our only real options at the 5 spot with Fall being completely unplayable and Ware not ready for primetime, so we run a real risk of getting them both in foul trouble if they played together. It's a real shame, too, as I think playing both together would make our interior defense and defensive rebounding much better.
 
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seansherm

Heisman
Feb 20, 2009
14,045
14,999
113
Degaz-RU said:
I actually have wondered if we could play Dortch and Ogbole together, but two things probably make it unlikely: first, we would basically be playing 3 on 5 on offense, as neither is a threat to score outside of the rim area, so our floor spacing would really suffer; second, they're our only real options at the 5 spot with Fall being completely unplayable and Ware not ready for primetime, so we run a real risk of getting them both in foul trouble if they played together. It's a real shame, too, as I think playing both together would make our interior defense and defensive rebounding much better.
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I agree, depth and foul issues are the real reason we can't, but it's felt like we play with only three offensive players most of the time anyway since Badalau has been mostly non existent.
 
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RU MAN

Heisman
Oct 29, 2001
23,610
10,193
113
needmorecowbell said:
Yes Painter is definitely a top tier coach. Any team would be lucky to have him but if you switched coaches, I’m not sure the results would be much different. Purdue has a great roster and that makes coaches look amazing.
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Cowbell, Painter is a great coach no matter what. And yes, with his offensive sets and the way he develops his players, if he coached our kids, they would be better.
 
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Scarlet Shack

Heisman
Feb 3, 2004
26,258
15,926
73
Degaz-RU said:
1. Matt Painter is the best coach in the Big Ten hands down, and he has the best player in the conference with Braden Smith. Purdue's offensive sets are just elite, and Smith operates the offense like the engine of a well-oiled machine. You watch that offense and you just see players moving constantly with purpose, and then Smith knows exactly where to locate the open shooters. It's really a thing of beauty to watch. We were always a step or two behind where they were going.

2. Smith and Trey Kaufman-Renn are a deadly one-two punch. Smith will end up the leading assist man in NCAA history when all is said and done, but he has really developed as a shooter and scorer too. Makes him doubly dangerous and impossible to guard. And TKR is a walking double-double. If he is anywhere near a rebound, he is getting it, and his short range jump hook is unstoppable.

3. As usual, Painter has stocked the roster with quality big men with Cluff and Jacobsen. They do just enough on offense, are good rebounders, and protect the paint and the rim.

4. Solid outing for JMike (9 points, 5 assists, 0 TOs), but none of the other starters were effective until Grant had a late spurt after the game was already decided. Pike tried starting Darren Buchanan over Denis Badalau, and Buchanan had his moments, but it didn't make a huge difference against the #1 team in the country.

5. Freshman update: Harun Zrno led the team in scoring again (tied with Grant with 13 points), which is the second time he's done that against top competition (Tennessee and now Purdue). The guy legitimately has a sweet stroke, so if he can just be mediocre as a defender, he can really help this team. Solid minutes from Lino Mark -- who is getting more comfortable operating the offense and is a pretty good on-ball defender -- and Kaden Powers. Powers finally hit a couple of shots, which will hopefully give him confidence moving forward. Scrappy game from Chris Nwuli, but he struggled with fouls. Badalau was completely lost and ineffective in 4 minutes.

6. I never know how much stock to place in the "plus/minus" stat, but all of our starters were between -14 and -20, and the bench players were -1 to +5. That could simply be a function of Purdue coasting after they got the big lead, but I think it's also true that we seemed to play better when the subs were in the game, including during the 10-0 kill shot in the first half, and certainly in the 2nd half after Purdue went up by +20. It bears watching if more changes to the starting lineup will be forthcoming.

7. There are no stars on this team, but rather some decent players, most of whom are young and/or inexperienced both in college basketball and in Pike's system. There's someone different nearly every night who leads the team in scoring, which can be a good thing but is more of a bad thing because it highlights the lack of top-end scorers on this team.

8. Things don't get any easier with Michigan up next in Ann Arbor. Today's KenPom has Michigan as the #1 team overall and Purdue as the #2 team overall, and Michigan has the #1 defense. Going to be difficult for us to break 50 points on Saturday, let alone 60 or more.

BUT, I'm not taking too much from these two games other than the fact that we already know we are talent deficient AND that Purdue and Michigan are two of the top teams in the country. We might not see much progress in these games just because of that, but it doesn't mean progress isn't happening behind the scenes and won't happen after Saturday. The ceiling for this team is still probably 16-15 if everything goes right, and I'm not really banking on even that. But what happened/happens in these two games are not really an indicator one way or the other.
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After Satuday …we don’t play outside the state of New Jersey for over a month

We need to turn 5-5 into 9-6 to have a chance at 16-15…….swton hall is again a big swing game …
 
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needmorecowbell

Heisman
Oct 28, 2007
9,568
10,714
78
RU MAN said:
Cowbell, Painter is a great coach no matter what. And yes, with his offensive sets and the way he develops his players, if he coached our kids, they would be better.
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I love Painter but how much better is “better”? Players win games. Not sure the record would be any different.
 
R

RUDiddy777

Heisman
Feb 26, 2015
33,642
38,123
113
needmorecowbell said:
I love Painter but how much better is “better”? Players win games. Not sure the record would be any different.
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Well, he wouldn’t have lost the CCSU game. So at least one win. Maybe ND. Maybe.

But yeah, I don’t think Painter, with Coach K, Bill Self, Jay Wright and John Wooden by his side would have gotten our squad through the other 2 (or the massacre that’s coming on Saturday)
 
L

Loyal-Son

All-Conference
Jan 5, 2016
1,455
2,750
81
Degaz-RU said:
1. Matt Painter is the best coach in the Big Ten hands down, and he has the best player in the conference with Braden Smith. Purdue's offensive sets are just elite, and Smith operates the offense like the engine of a well-oiled machine. You watch that offense and you just see players moving constantly with purpose, and then Smith knows exactly where to locate the open shooters. It's really a thing of beauty to watch. We were always a step or two behind where they were going.

2. Smith and Trey Kaufman-Renn are a deadly one-two punch. Smith will end up the leading assist man in NCAA history when all is said and done, but he has really developed as a shooter and scorer too. Makes him doubly dangerous and impossible to guard. And TKR is a walking double-double. If he is anywhere near a rebound, he is getting it, and his short range jump hook is unstoppable.

3. As usual, Painter has stocked the roster with quality big men with Cluff and Jacobsen. They do just enough on offense, are good rebounders, and protect the paint and the rim.

4. Solid outing for JMike (9 points, 5 assists, 0 TOs), but none of the other starters were effective until Grant had a late spurt after the game was already decided. Pike tried starting Darren Buchanan over Denis Badalau, and Buchanan had his moments, but it didn't make a huge difference against the #1 team in the country.

5. Freshman update: Harun Zrno led the team in scoring again (tied with Grant with 13 points), which is the second time he's done that against top competition (Tennessee and now Purdue). The guy legitimately has a sweet stroke, so if he can just be mediocre as a defender, he can really help this team. Solid minutes from Lino Mark -- who is getting more comfortable operating the offense and is a pretty good on-ball defender -- and Kaden Powers. Powers finally hit a couple of shots, which will hopefully give him confidence moving forward. Scrappy game from Chris Nwuli, but he struggled with fouls. Badalau was completely lost and ineffective in 4 minutes.

6. I never know how much stock to place in the "plus/minus" stat, but all of our starters were between -14 and -20, and the bench players were -1 to +5. That could simply be a function of Purdue coasting after they got the big lead, but I think it's also true that we seemed to play better when the subs were in the game, including during the 10-0 kill shot in the first half, and certainly in the 2nd half after Purdue went up by +20. It bears watching if more changes to the starting lineup will be forthcoming.

7. There are no stars on this team, but rather some decent players, most of whom are young and/or inexperienced both in college basketball and in Pike's system. There's someone different nearly every night who leads the team in scoring, which can be a good thing but is more of a bad thing because it highlights the lack of top-end scorers on this team.

8. Things don't get any easier with Michigan up next in Ann Arbor. Today's KenPom has Michigan as the #1 team overall and Purdue as the #2 team overall, and Michigan has the #1 defense. Going to be difficult for us to break 50 points on Saturday, let alone 60 or more.

BUT, I'm not taking too much from these two games other than the fact that we already know we are talent deficient AND that Purdue and Michigan are two of the top teams in the country. We might not see much progress in these games just because of that, but it doesn't mean progress isn't happening behind the scenes and won't happen after Saturday. The ceiling for this team is still probably 16-15 if everything goes right, and I'm not really banking on eventhat. But what happened/happens in these two games are not really an indicator one way or the other.
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Thank you for doing these reports. They are really helpful.
 
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Loyal-Son

All-Conference
Jan 5, 2016
1,455
2,750
81
Mholinko said:
If that’s the case then we should be honing in on the issue that either Pike does not have a great eye for talent or the issue that’s beaten into the ground that Rutgers foundationally isn’t equipped to be as competitive as we all want to be

it’s critical this off season for football and basketball that the administration of the university, athletic director, coaches and external support get on the same page about what are the goals, what’s realistic and having an actual plan of how to maximize it

it has felt to me like athletics is shooting from the hip trying to navigate this environment and there are clear examples of programs succeeding to varying degrees based on their specific circumstances
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Why is it so hard for you to stick to the thread topic rather than trying to turn it into another "Pike sucks" thread?
 
M

Mholinko

All-Conference
Apr 25, 2023
1,400
2,157
77
Loyal-Son said:
Why is it so hard for you to stick to the thread topic rather than trying to turn it into another "Pike sucks" thread?
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Where does it say that? I actually defend him more than most I said we need to have a discussion if the issue is him or deeper rooted and if you’ve read my other posts over the last 2 years I bang the drum that this is a fundamental issue from the top down and not pike entirely

I said let’s have a discussion if pike has an issue having an eye for talent or if the university is not equipped currently to be competitive in the Nil era I’ve been saying for 2 years Nil is a problem not as much pike


thanks for your thoughts though
 
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combes

Heisman
Jul 10, 2001
36,256
10,766
66
Painter is an outstanding coach. However he is also the coach that lost to a 13, 15 and 16 seed in the tourney. No other coach has ever done that.

Surprisingly, Underwood has the same number of BT wins over the last 6 seasons as Painter. Of course, Painter has the runner up on his resume while Underwood only has an Elite 8.

I do agree that Painter is currently the best BT coach. It’s his ability to find under the radar talent to go with his top end talent and then develop it that makes him so good.
 
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