OT: I hate the victory formation!

[RULoyal]

Watching the Rams/Panthers game. 2 minutes left Rams down 3 with no timeouts. Panthers have the ball on their own 49 yard line. Panthers take 3 knees - nobody on either side of the line even move. Just call the game and send everybody home with 2 minutes left. Why even bother.

Rant over.

 

[Waldo73]

They should have to run real plays!

 

[NickRU714]

They should have to run real plays!

What constitutes a "real play"?
If the QB takes the snap and dives forward into the ground instead of taking a knee - is that a "real play"?

This sounds like the dumb "ban the tush push - its not a real play" arguments.

 

[RULoyal]

What constitutes a "real play"?
If the QB takes the snap and dives forward into the ground instead of taking a knee - is that a "real play"?

This sounds like the dumb "ban the tush push - its not a real play" arguments.

What’s a real play? How about we start with anything other than the defense standing around with their hands on their hips.

 

[Doctor Worm]

What constitutes a "real play"?
If the QB takes the snap and dives forward into the ground instead of taking a knee - is that a "real play"?

This sounds like the dumb "ban the tush push - its not a real play" arguments.

I offer the following hypothetical rule change: In the last two minutes of the game, if the offensive team leads by eight points or less, every offensive play must advance the ball across the line of scrimmage. Otherwise, the clock is automatically stopped until the next snap.

 

[Shelby65]

What constitutes a "real play"?
If the QB takes the snap and dives forward into the ground instead of taking a knee - is that a "real play"?

This sounds like the dumb "ban the tush push - its not a real play" arguments.

Exactly. Snapping the ball begins a real play, unless of course when a lousy coach calls a TO just before the snap to ice the kicker facing a 35 mph wind on a 58 yard FG try or some other moronic reason.

 

[Doctor Worm]

Exactly. Snapping the ball begins a real play, unless of course a lousy coach calls a TO just before the snap to ice the kicker facing a 35 mph wind on a 58 yard FG try or some other moronic reason.

You never miss an opportunity, do you? Even if you have to create it yourself.

 

[NickRU714]

I offer the following hypothetical rule change: In the last two minutes of the game, if the offensive team leads by eight points or less, every offensive play must advance the ball across the line of scrimmage. Otherwise, the clock is automatically stopped until the next snap.

So teams should be passing the ball during close games instead of running out the clock?
That appears to be the incentive of your rule change for the offense.

If the clock is stopping with a failed play regardless, might as well try and pass it more often to get a 1st down.

 

[NickRU714]

What’s a real play? How about we start with anything other than the defense standing around with their hands on their hips.

Maybe those defenders should have played better during the first 58 minutes and they wouldn't be relegated to standing around with their hands on their hips.

Get rid of fair catches too then.
A play where everyone just runs sprints and stops? No tackles or attempts to gain yards?
Doesn't sound like a real play.
Someone get Schiano on the phone and pitch this rule change.

 

[Shelby65]

You never miss an opportunity, do you? Even if you have to create it yourself.

Shucks, can’t give Shelby a Like for yet another truism ?

 

[Shelby65]

Maybe those defenders should have played better during the first 58 minutes and they wouldn't be relegated to standing around with their hands on their hips.

Get rid of fair catches too then.
A play where everyone just runs sprints and stops? No tackles or attempts to gain yards?
Doesn't sound like a real play.
Someone get Schiano on the phone and pitch this rule change.

Shelby thinks Nick agrees with him on the MLB shift ban.

 

[NickRU714]

Are there other sports that randomly change rules in the middle of a game under specific circumstances?

• If a hockey team is winning by 3 or more goals in the last 3 minutes, they only get 5 skaters
• During the last 2 minutes of a basketball game, the losing team gets double points for all baskets.
• During the 9th inning, the winning team only gets 2 strikes before a strikeout when batting
• If a soccer team is winning by 2 goals or more, they arent allowed to enter the 18 yard box on offense and their goalie cant leave the 6 yard box on defense.

 

[RULoyal]

In what other sport where a team has a reasonable albeit slim chance of winning or tying the game in the final minutes does that team just give up?

 

[Shelby65]

Are there other sports that randomly change rules in the middle of a game under specific circumstances?

• If a hockey team is winning by 3 or more goals in the last 3 minutes, they only get 5 skaters
• During the last 2 minutes of a basketball game, the losing team gets double points for all baskets.
• During the 9th inning, the winning team only gets 2 strikes before a strikeout when batting
• If a soccer team is winning by 2 goals or more, they arent allowed to enter the 18 yard box on offense and their goalie cant leave the 6 yard box on defense.

In the NFL, only onsides kicks by teams that are losing (and they need to declare). This is clearly unfair to the team that’s ahead.

In MLB, starting in the 10th teams begin extras with a runner on second (reg season only).

 

[Doctor Worm]

Shucks, can’t give Shelby a Like for yet another truism ?

All you gotta do is ask.

 

[RUnTeX]

In what other sport where a team has a reasonable albeit slim chance of winning or tying the game in the final minutes does that team just give up?

This is may be partly attributable to the fact that in football the offense and defense are separate units that aren't on the field of play at the same time.

Baseball is similar in that respect but one difference there is that the defense (fielding team) starts with the ball in their hands and has to pitch it to the offense (batting team).

 

[NickRU714]

In what other sport where a team has a reasonable albeit slim chance of winning or tying the game in the final minutes does that team just give up?

Every sport with a timer?

Are you mad at the offense for taking a knee or the defense for not trying to cause a fumble?

Regarding the defense giving up:
What is reasonable albeit slim chance of winning?
If the offense has the ball and the defense has no timeouts - how does the defense have even a slim chance of winning.
They have near zero chance of winning.

 

[NickRU714]

In the NFL, only onsides kicks by teams that are losing (and they need to declare). This is clearly unfair to the team that’s ahead.

In MLB, starting in the 10th teams begin extras with a runner on second (reg season only).

Good point on #1.
It'd be like if a basketball team is losing by 10pts in the final 10 seconds they get a 4pt shot.

#2 I'll disagree. That applies to both teams equally.

 

[NickRU714]

This is may be partly attributable to the fact that in football the offense and defense are separate units that aren't on the field of play at the same time.

Baseball is similar in that respect but one difference there is that the defense (fielding team) starts with the ball in their hands and has to pitch it to the offense (batting team).

Baseball also doesn't have a time clock.
You could literally be down 25 runs and still have a chance to win.
You control your own destiny at all times and can always win any game.

 

[Shelby65]

Good point on #1.
It'd be like if a basketball team is losing by 10pts in the final 10 seconds they get a 4pt shot.

#2 I'll disagree. That applies to both teams equally.

You only asked ‘changes rules randomly’, not about affecting 1 side.

 

[RULoyal]

Baseball also doesn't have a time clock.
You could literally be down 25 runs and still have a chance to win.
You control your own destiny at all times and can always win any game.

Exactly but the expectation in football during the victory formation is that the defense is supposed to simply give up. Not try to cause a fumble. I don’t know the occurrence on botched snaps but I’m willing to bet it occurs a lot less when the offense knows the defensive line and LBs are just going to stand there. If that’s going to be the case then just make it like the intentional walk in baseball- the QB tells the head official they are going into victory formation and the game is over. Maybe coaches need to stop saying “it’s a 60 minute game”.

 

[yesrutgers01]

So, like it or not- this is why I was never upset about the TB defense under GS going to make a play until time clicked down to zero - if a football game is within 1 score, the defense should still be going all out to make a play. If the other team is going to snap the ball in play with the intent for the QB to stand there and then take a knee, then you should make sure they are prepared for your team to play until the end of the game.

 

[Dowling's Revenge]

So, like it or not- this is why I was never upset about the TB defense under GS going to make a play until time clicked down to zero - if a football game is within 1 score, the defense should still be going all out to make a play. If the other team is going to snap the ball in play with the intent for the QB to stand there and then take a knee, then you should make sure they are prepared for your team to play until the end of the game.

yes and it's absolutely ridiculous that anybody ever got mad at Schiano for this