Will Pike ever succeed at Rutgers again?

[bac2therac]

We should’ve stayed in our lane in the AAC if the school never committed to grow in athletics

Rutgers truthfully belongs in the ACC

 

[RUJMM78]

You bring in anyone else. It’s been a clear steady decline that so many still don’t see. Lose play in game to ND. Collapse after Mag injury and lose to Hofstra. Don’t make post season. Then don’t make it with two lottery picks. Now lose to CCST. It’s clear he can’t win and when the buyout allows you move on. None of this what did you do 5-6-7 years ago. He got really lucky with a few early recruits that some stayed an extra year with Covid. He proved he lost his eye for talent back with the Reiber class. No NIL then. Jaden Jones. Come on. Now for those just blaming NIL, did CCST or some of the quad 4s that just pushed us also have more NIL?

You bring in anyone else. It’s been a clear steady decline that so many still don’t see. Lose play in game to ND. Collapse after Mag injury and lose to Hofstra. Don’t make post season. Then don’t make it with two lottery picks. Now lose to CCST. It’s clear he can’t win and when the buyout allows you move on. None of this what did you do 5-6-7 years ago. He got really lucky with a few early recruits that some stayed an extra year with Covid. He proved he lost his eye for talent back with the Reiber class. No NIL then. Jaden Jones. Come on. Now for those just blaming NIL, did CCST or some of the quad 4s that just pushed us also have more NIL?

It took 30 year to get a NCAA bid and to his credit Pikiell was head coach .The point being the mens basketball program was spinning its wheels for a long time with different head coaches.

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

15 people support him.
I’m floored.

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

It took 30 year to get a NCAA bid and to his credit Pikiell was head coach .The point being the mens basketball program was spinning its wheels for a long time with different head coaches.

Wenzel got us to two dances. Then reality hit.

 

[King of S]

Seton Hall going to topple #23 NC State

Looks like SHU heading in the right direction.

 

[scarletrat99]

Not in my view, that ship sailed. He had talented teams that he built but couldn't get better than a double digit seed. Always due for 1-2 WTF OOC losses. His offenses have been unimaginative, predictable, and easily defended. Relied on players rising up rather than scheming to help players on O. D too complicated. Last year was the final nail. He and staff couldn't maximize the talent on last year's team to put them in a position to succeed. NIL is a red herring.

He belongs at a small D-1 New England college.

 

[dark_check]

It took 30 year to get a NCAA bid and to his credit Pikiell was head coach .The point being the mens basketball program was spinning its wheels for a long time with different head coaches.

Ok you live in the past and keep enjoying the results like Friday and today. Other schools, ones that want to win, don’t look five years back and hang on. They make changes when necessary.

 

[Mholinko]

Ok you live in the past and keep enjoying the results like Friday and today. Other schools, ones that want to win, don’t look five years back and hang on. They make changes when necessary.

Exactly

Does Indiana football look like it cares that they had the worst winning percentage in power conference football the last 100 years? Nobody will ever talk about anything that happened to them before last year

 

[Lawboy]

You’re referencing a complacent fan base that will almost certainly storm the field Saturday if we finally beat penn state … the worst version of them in over a decade

It ain’t happening

 

[Fat Koko]

The University doesn't really have any decisions to make. They can't fire Pike (or Schiano) because the money isn't there to hire a replacement (this money will NEVER be there). The school doesn't have money to compete in NIL (and it will NEVER be there). We can't drop major college sports and remain in the Big 10. If we did drop major college sports, the Ivy League would laugh at us, which means we'd be in the Patriot League. Even finishing dead last in the Big 10 in Football and Basketball, the expenditures on the Athletics Department is the best money the school spends annually - Football and Basketball basically pay for themselves with Big 10 TV money and it's the best available advertising the school has.

So there we are. We're the doormat of a Power 2 conference until a Super Conference forms to play professional college football (and presumably basketball). It is far better for us to be in that conference (that will undoubtedly have a salary cap) than it would be for us to be out of it. So for now we sit and hope that conference forms sooner rather than later and that we are invited.

That's literally all the school can do.

TKR posters don't like to see it, but football and men's basketball lost millions last year, even when factoring in media rights revenue. They will lose more this year.

Rutgers sports, by profit.

2023
Football $2,057,579
Men's basketball ($1,838,275)
Women's basketball ($5,410,128)
Other 19 sports ($22,854,604)
Total ($28,045,427)

2024
Football ($10,381,440)
Men's basketball ($2,689,893)
Women's basketball ($4,972,273)
Other 19 sports ($23,463,820)
Total ($41,507,426)

Key inputs
Media rights - 77% football, 15% men's basketball, 5% women's basketball, 3% other sports
Debt service - 50% football, 10% each men's and women's basketball, 30% other sports
Administrative overhead - Evenly at 4.5% across each of the 22 sports

 

[AdventureHasAName]

TKR posters don't like to see it, but football and men's basketball lost millions last year, even when factoring in media rights revenue. They will lose more this year.

Rutgers sports, by profit.

2023
Football $2,057,579
Men's basketball ($1,838,275)
Women's basketball ($5,410,128)
Other 19 sports ($22,854,604)
Total ($28,045,427)

2024
Football ($10,381,440)
Men's basketball ($2,689,893)
Women's basketball ($4,972,273)
Other 19 sports ($23,463,820)
Total ($41,507,426)

Key inputs
Media rights - 77% football, 15% men's basketball, 5% women's basketball, 3% other sports
Debt service - 50% football, 10% each men's and women's basketball, 30% other sports
Administrative overhead - Evenly at 4.5% across each of the 22 sports

You forgot to mention the 70 million that Football gets from Big 10 TV rights. Even if your numbers (the percentages) are correct ... 77% of 70 million is 54 million. Even if half that went to debt, that's still 27 million. I don't know where you got football losing 10 million from, but add 27 million to their profit and it's not a loss.

And if 77% is going to football annually, then that just means football is funding the other sports because far more than 77% of Rutgers' Big Ten media rights is thanks to football.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

TKR posters don't like to see it, but football and men's basketball lost millions last year, even when factoring in media rights revenue. They will lose more this year.

Rutgers sports, by profit.

2023
Football $2,057,579
Men's basketball ($1,838,275)
Women's basketball ($5,410,128)
Other 19 sports ($22,854,604)
Total ($28,045,427)

2024
Football ($10,381,440)
Men's basketball ($2,689,893)
Women's basketball ($4,972,273)
Other 19 sports ($23,463,820)
Total ($41,507,426)

Key inputs
Media rights - 77% football, 15% men's basketball, 5% women's basketball, 3% other sports
Debt service - 50% football, 10% each men's and women's basketball, 30% other sports
Administrative overhead - Evenly at 4.5% across each of the 22 sports

Jesus you NEVER stop.

 

[Fat Koko]

You forgot to mention the 70 million that Football gets from Big 10 TV rights. Even if your numbers (the percentages) are correct ... 77% of 70 million is 54 million. Even if half that went to debt, that's still 27 million. I don't know where you got football losing 10 million from, but add 27 million to their profit and it's not a loss.

And if 77% is going to football annually, then that just means football is funding the other sports because far more than 77% of Rutgers' Big Ten media rights is thanks to football.

Rutgers football does not get "70 million" from B1G media rights. Where do you get the $70 million figure?

In 2024, Rutgers reported $45,635,642 of media rights revenue for the entire athletic department.

How do you estimate, "far more than 77% of Rutgers' Big Ten media rights is thanks to football"?

FYI - the 77% figure comes from another TKR poster, not me. I view it as reasonable and use it in my math. Rutgers does not allocate media rights revenue across sports. Ohio State does and counts 75% of media rights to football, 25% to men's basketball, and zero to the other 30 or so sports.

I attached a more detailed summary.

 

[Fat Koko]

Jesus you NEVER stop.

Never Stop is the title to Dan Hurley's book. Good book. I recommend it. Keli should make it mandatory reading for Rutgers coaches.

 

[RU#1fan]

He couldn’t win with 2 Lottery picks last season.
He is toast …good bye

 

[rpiseman]

I think he’s here till he decides to leave because we’ll never give him $20 million not to coach and he will hold us hostage till his contract is paid out.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Rutgers football does not get "70 million" from B1G media rights. Where do you get the $70 million figure?

In 2024, Rutgers reported $45,635,642 of media rights revenue for the entire athletic department.

How do you estimate, "far more than 77% of Rutgers' Big Ten media rights is thanks to football"?

FYI - the 77% figure comes from another TKR poster, not me. I view it as reasonable and use it in my math. Rutgers does not allocate media rights revenue across sports. Ohio State does and counts 75% of media rights to football, 25% to men's basketball, and zero to the other 30 or so sports.

I attached a more detailed summary.

View attachment 1026169

 

[Nycrusupporter]

TKR posters don't like to see it, but football and men's basketball lost millions last year, even when factoring in media rights revenue. They will lose more this year.

Rutgers sports, by profit.

2023
Football $2,057,579
Men's basketball ($1,838,275)
Women's basketball ($5,410,128)
Other 19 sports ($22,854,604)
Total ($28,045,427)

2024
Football ($10,381,440)
Men's basketball ($2,689,893)
Women's basketball ($4,972,273)
Other 19 sports ($23,463,820)
Total ($41,507,426)

Key inputs
Media rights - 77% football, 15% men's basketball, 5% women's basketball, 3% other sports
Debt service - 50% football, 10% each men's and women's basketball, 30% other sports
Administrative overhead - Evenly at 4.5% across each of the 22 sports

Hal Steinbrenner just claimed the Yankees lost money last year, who cares?

 

[Bob Chaewsky_rivals]

You can keep whining that you don't have the money for a buyout or you can go out and get it. Where there's a will there's a way.

 

[rupop2]

The fate of the program(s) comes down to if Kelli is a legitimate fundraiser and can bring in major corporate partnerships. You can have the best coaches in the world but as the old saying goes, can’t make chicken soup out of chicken Sh*t!

Apparently Campbell soup can.

 

[rpiseman]

You can keep whining that you don't have the money for a buyout or you can go out and get it. Where there's a will there's a way.

The sad reality is no one outside of this board cares about Rutgers basketball. We had a shot to really become relevant last year but Pike absolutely wasted the opportunity.

 

[RUDivision]

Never should have gotten that extension early. He’s a bad coach who is WAY over his skies at this level.

 

[RU MAN]

Pike won by building a culture that relied on upperclassman leadership and by getting lucky that RHJ and McConnell were largely under-recruited. They fed into and sustained that culture. That's going to be hard to replicate in the NIL era, especially with a coach that is unwilling to make the necessary changes to succeed.
The beauty of the NIL era is that the right coach COULD turn things around in a year. As has been argued, RU's history and resources make that difficult, but the next coach should at least offer hope. I've been a fan for 35+ years. I've lost hope that this regime will produce anything better than what we're seeing this year.

Spot on. You get it.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I think if we can even get him 2 decent players, he will crush it. I try to imagine just how good he could be if he ever even had 2 NBA level players on the roster...............

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

So in the end 17 people still support the guy. Really shocked by that, honestly.

 

[RU on Manns Planet]

BTW - Pike is the only coach in 40 years to actually do it. No hypotheticals, he’s actually won here. Yes, the landscape has changed but the REAL question is will Rutgers figure out NIL? Because if they don’t, NO ONE is winning here.

Yes, there’s no doubt in my mind with comparable money to spend on talent that he can get back to where things were, which was squeezing into the NCAA tournament. There’s really no question about that but for me, the bigger question is whether there is a ceiling beyond that with this style of play.

 

[RU on Manns Planet]

What exactly did he win? With 2 high NBA picks he had a losing season. One tournament game victory? He would have been fired by most programs. In my opinion, we accept mediocracy.

Last season with the two NBA picks is relatively irrelevant because beyond those 2 there wasn’t enough money to fill out a roster. And in the bad luck of the six games that Dylan either missed or was sick during and the injury to the best transfer, Acuff, who honestly was probably the only one expected to be either starting or in the rotation, and it wasn’t in the cards last season.

I think the fairer evaluation is before NIL money impacted everything. Obviously not everything was perfect with some dubious recruiting but generally speaking, he had the program making the NCAA tournament or on the bubble for several years in a row.

 

[RU on Manns Planet]

You’re referencing a complacent fan base that will almost certainly storm the field Saturday if we finally beat penn state … the worst version of them in over a decade

Just because Penn State had some bad losses this season doesn’t mean the version of the team coming in on Saturday is the worst team in 10 seasons. They took Oregon to overtime, Indiana to the final play and just decimated, Nebraska and Michigan State.
They are playing like a top 15 team right now, or better.

 

[RU on Manns Planet]

Pike won by building a culture that relied on upperclassman leadership and by getting lucky that RHJ and McConnell were largely under-recruited. They fed into and sustained that culture. That's going to be hard to replicate in the NIL era, especially with a coach that is unwilling to make the necessary changes to succeed.
The beauty of the NIL era is that the right coach COULD turn things around in a year. As has been argued, RU's history and resources make that difficult, but the next coach should at least offer hope. I've been a fan for 35+ years. I've lost hope that this regime will produce anything better than what we're seeing this year.

Except that he did it over and over again. That is not luck. Caleb, RHJ, Geo, Mag. I don’t think it’s fair to say that he got lucky by recruiting and developing some under the radar guys. Dylan Grant is clearly better this season than less season. He does develop players.

 

[RU on Manns Planet]

I wouldn’t be that harsh with the “no,” but he’s very clearly over his skis here.

It’s been that way for the past 3 years or so, team does not play organized hoops.

He’ll get another year I’m sure, but the whole Greg going out and raising NIL money vs Pike not doing so is a bad look.

Not really. No coach should be left on their own by their university to raise money. Worse, this university obstructed efforts made by people trying to raise money. I applaud and appreciate Greg for going out and doing it for football and fighting through all of the hurdles probably thrown in his way but at the same time I don’t blame Pike for not doing it.

 

[RU on Manns Planet]

Coach Pike is a good basketball coach, however not in this environment and not with a major program in the B1G. His success in 2019-2023 was in a different era and the changes that have occurred are drastic, of which he's unable to adapt to. There are places for Pike to coach and find success again. Rutgers University absolutely needs to buy him out and chart a different course. Coming up with the money is part of the business that Rutgers is in and the longer they wait the bigger the damage done to the brand and fanbase goodwill. Nobody sits on a Coach for multiple years that hits rock bottom and 3 years of losing, including the embarrassment of last year, as well as, what appears to be an awful team that has been assembled for this season, equates to the process of hitting rock bottom.

Frankly, I don’t think either of these guys as well suited for the current environment. Getting results through being tough nosed when there is a transfer portal about to open at any time, I think takes away advantages from coaches who were driving results through being very tough with their players. LeGrand on a recent podcast, even touched on this, saying that GS can’t treat the players the same way as he did back in the day.

 

[RU MAN]

It took 30 year to get a NCAA bid and to his credit Pikiell was head coach .The point being the mens basketball program was spinning its wheels for a long time with different head coaches.

Very true. But IMO that was because we had lousy AD’s who were in over their heads and hired subpar HC’s or never fully committed to making RU BB big time.

 

[needmorecowbell]

Yes, there’s no doubt in my mind with comparable money to spend on talent that he can get back to where things were, which was squeezing into the NCAA tournament. There’s really no question about that but for me, the bigger question is whether there is a ceiling beyond that with this style of play.

This might be mind blowing to some of you but style of play does not matter. There are so many different ways to play and all of those ways can win. 50% of what matters is how hard you get your guys to play your style. Do guys buy in? Do they play harder than the opponent? In college basketball defense is allowed to play more aggressively and to block the lane. So can you get your guys to lock it up.

The other 50% is the players you can acquire. It used to be recruiting but now it’s do you have the NIL to acquire the players you need to run your system?

it’s a simple formula that need effort and $$.

 

[Mholinko]

This might be mind blowing to some of you but style of play does not matter. There are so many different ways to play and all of those ways can win. 50% of what matters is how hard you get your guys to play your style. Do guys buy in? Do they play harder than the opponent? In college basketball defense is allowed to play more aggressively and to block the lane. So can you get your guys to lock it up.

The other 50% is the players you can acquire. It used to be recruiting but now it’s do you have the NIL to acquire the players you need to run your system?

it’s a simple formula that need effort and $$.

Point I’ve been making for a long time

yes coaching matters but if you have talented guys who buy in versus untalented guys who buy in who’s going to win?

you can be the greatest coach in the world but if you’re talent stinks it’s not Relevant

 

[DHajekRC1984]

Point I’ve been making for a long time

yes coaching matters but if you have talented guys who buy in versus untalented guys who buy in who’s going to win?

you can be the greatest coach in the world but if you’re talent stinks it’s not Relevant

Talented guys who play out of position, dont help , and make up for team flaws with individual efforts is there and then it is not and doesnt yield consistent results.

There are Plenty of examples where lessor talented TEAMS but individual talent.

 

[Redrich66]

We should’ve stayed in our lane in the AAC if the school never committed to grow in athletics

Screw the AAC for never inviting us.This year we!d be8-4 or 9-3.

 

[seansherm]

Screw the AAC for never inviting us.This year we!d be8-4 or 9-3.

Uh, we were in the AAC

 

[bac2therac]

Last season with the two NBA picks is relatively irrelevant because beyond those 2 there wasn’t enough money to fill out a roster. And in the bad luck of the six games that Dylan either missed or was sick during and the injury to the best transfer, Acuff, who honestly was probably the only one expected to be either starting or in the rotation, and it wasn’t in the cards last season.

I think the fairer evaluation is before NIL money impacted everything. Obviously not everything was perfect with some dubious recruiting but generally speaking, he had the program making the NCAA tournament or on the bubble for several years in a row.

Sorry using nil as an excuse....he had 2 players that were worth 3.2 million alone...doesnt matter Rutgers wasnt the one paying that. Other schools who had success didnt have that

Nil wasnt the excuse. Prior poor recruiting and horrific recruiting specifically for that season plus coaching decisions which allowed 2 players to have a nba tryout year instead of doing things in the best interest of the program

 

[ru66+]

Sorry using nil as an excuse....he had 2 players that were worth 3.2 million alone...doesnt matter Rutgers wasnt the one paying that. Other schools who had success didnt have that

Nil wasnt the excuse. Prior poor recruiting and horrific recruiting specifically for that season plus coaching decisions which allowed 2 players to have a nba tryout year instead of doing things in the best interest of the program

So you're saying we had competitive NIL $ to buy players around those two.How wrong can you be. We couldn't even buy Cliff ,who loved Ru ,to stay. Furthermore you must believe you can win BIG championships with two NBA draft picks and virtually nothing else.No matter that one of those future Nba players was very ill and/or injured for almost a month and lost 30 pounds during Christmas break. You can't help yourself. Talk about derangement syndrone,you can't be sick enough in your efforts to constantly attack the school you really don't love. What a coward ,talk big but couldn't give up your seasons tickets. Leave your phone behind and go pee.

 

[bac2therac]

So you're saying we had competitive NIL $ to buy players around those two.How wrong can you be. We couldn't even buy Cliff ,who loved Ru ,to stay. Furthermore you must believe you can win BIG championships with two NBA draft picks and virtually nothing else.No matter that one of those future Nba players was very ill and/or injured for almost a month and lost 30 pounds during Christmas break. You can't help yourself. Talk about derangement syndrone,you can't be sick enough in your efforts to constantly attack the school you really don't love. What a coward ,talk big but couldn't give up your seasons tickets. Leave your phone behind and go pee.

No im saying most prigrams didnt have 2 top 5 nba picks

Pike did a miserable job with the supporting cast. That goes to previous recruiting...see no big man and Jeremiah Williams