1 year ago today's bench productivity

[NewJerseyHawk]

Probably a good time to not overreact and make grand decisions on players....only mentioning the bench, because the vast difference between last years bench and this year are youth (upside) mixed with some veterans who had already reached their career ceilings.

1 year ago.....1st 3 games

Dylan Grant launched 2 air balls in mop up time in the opener and had walk ons subbed in over him on another game.

Dortch was scheduled to redshirt and hadn't played any minutes.

JMike averaged 23 minutes a game and put up around 6PPG, 2 RPG, 3 AST

We also had veterans PJ Hayes, Tyson Acuff off a broken foot, Lathan Sommerville (very productive averaged 12 to 13 PPG 6 RPG)

The starters were obviously Dylan and Ace. But were complimented with players who eventually got replaced in the starting lineup.....Zach Martini, Jordan Derkack and Ogbole remains the constant...

In 3 games last year, some fans wrote off Dylan Grant, said Dortch was never going to amount to anything and Lathan was good, but we didnt see any defense, despite his scoring against Wagner, Monmouth and St Peter's..

This years bench has way more upside with a lot of youth.

Nwuli is a future starter and can play good defense.

Buchanan is a steady veteran who can find 6 to 8PPG and can play good defense.

Harun Zrno is probably a player who isn't going to 25% for the season and is clearly a better player than PJ Hayes....at least a slightly better defender at worse.

Dortch is not going to match the scoring of Sommerville, but with the ability to switch and keep a closer tab on smaller offensive players, he helps close some of the gaps defensively. Consider any points a bonus for now, but this year's group of guards are good passers (Francis and JMike etc) so Dortch may be able to find a layup or 2.

I haven't even gotten to Lino Mark, who is going to be good and Kaden Powers who can easily step ahead of Zrno in 2 months, if progress isn't made.

If Baye Fall provides anything right now, great....same with Ware, but both will be better in 2 months vs today.

Considering how much effort this freshman class provides on defense and how Lehigh lost by 18 at #2 Houston, I consider a 12 point win vs Lehigh as very solid, especially for a bunch of freshman, JMike, Buchanan in his 3rd game at RU and Ogbole who took a step forward.

Let this bench get kicked around in Vegas, at Seton Hall, vs Purdue and at Michigan....I am encouraged that in a year, most of this roster will be back and we take a large step forward.....with some flashes of good play along the way this season...Considering how large of a jump JMike has taken from year 2 to now and Grant from last year to this year, most of these freshman will be making leaps forward as well.

 

[RUSCFORMERLYRULOU]

One exponentially massive problem with your analysis - well, there are many.
You assume all of this group will he back next year. Remember what age we live in.

 

[bac2therac]

One exponentially massive problem with your analysis - well, there are many.
You assume all of this group will he back next year. Remember what age we live in.

This...its a real white elephant that has to be brought up in every analysis

Also i hope Pike would be indentifying and targetting better players transfers from the portal to spend on while excising lesser players

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

This...its a real white elephant that has to be brought up in every analysis

Also i hope Pike would be indentifying and targetting better players transfers from the portal to spend on while excising lesser players

Perhaps - but I’m not entirely convinced we’ve actually even lost any priority players yet specifically because of NIL. Pike wants Cliff’s departure framed to be about money. I would too. But after a disappointing season perhaps Cliff was just looking to move on like J Young, MJ, Eugene and others before when money wasn’t involved at all. Paul did not leave because of money. Perhaps Cam did, but I think bringing Noah in was a big factor too.

Jordan was unhappy with his PT and had a foot out the door. That one was certainly not NIL nor did we really want to keep him here. Lathan was only about money from the perspective that Pike would’ve let him stay for free or cheap, but he wasn’t a good fit for the program at all. Had he been a stud defender and complemented last years team to an NCAA birth perhaps we would’ve ponied up the funds. I believe Pike proactively chose not to.

Time will tell but I’m optimistic that we will ultimately come up with the money to keep whoever Pike really wants. Argument can be made that he did so this year.

 

[RUBlackout]

I’m cautiously optimistic with this team actually.

Thing is against these weaker teams(I say that loosely) we should be playing more of our bench to get them reps. The more reps the better prepared they will be for BIG play. That is a Pike kryptonite as even layer be refused to play Grant/Dortch much to get them experience yet Grant was very good down she stretch and could have used him earlier on in games.

in this game of yearly contracts for most of these kids let’s see what he have and if worth even keeping for next year or targeting new blood

 

[bac2therac]

Perhaps - but I’m not entirely convinced we’ve actually even lost any priority players yet specifically because of NIL. Pike wants Cliff’s departure framed to be about money. I would too. But after a disappointing season perhaps Cliff was just looking to move on like J Young, MJ, Eugene and others before when money wasn’t involved at all. Paul did not leave because of money. Perhaps Cam did, but I think bringing Noah in was a big factor too.

Jordan was unhappy with his PT and had a foot out the door. That one was certainly not NIL nor did we really want to keep him here. Lathan was only about money from the perspective that Pike would’ve let him stay for free or cheap, but he wasn’t a good fit for the program at all. Had he been a stud defender and complemented last years team to an NCAA birth perhaps we would’ve ponied up the funds. I believe Pike proactively chose not to.

Time will tell but I’m optimistic that we will ultimately come up with the money to keep whoever Pike really wants. Argument can be made that he did so this year.

Your posts actually magnifies how poor talent has been here the last few years

 

[djrc89]

I hope pike can keep the kids he wants to keep. Schiano has done a great job in the past in this area. I think it’s harder in hoops with more schools, less roster spots, and a bunch of schools where there is no football competition

 

[RU-ROCS]

Probably a good time to not overreact and make grand decisions on players....only mentioning the bench, because the vast difference between last years bench and this year are youth (upside) mixed with some veterans who had already reached their career ceilings.

1 year ago.....1st 3 games

Dylan Grant launched 2 air balls in mop up time in the opener and had walk ons subbed in over him on another game.

Dortch was scheduled to redshirt and hadn't played any minutes.

JMike averaged 23 minutes a game and put up around 6PPG, 2 RPG, 3 AST

We also had veterans PJ Hayes, Tyson Acuff off a broken foot, Lathan Sommerville (very productive averaged 12 to 13 PPG 6 RPG)

The starters were obviously Dylan and Ace. But were complimented with players who eventually got replaced in the starting lineup.....Zach Martini, Jordan Derkack and Ogbole remains the constant...

In 3 games last year, some fans wrote off Dylan Grant, said Dortch was never going to amount to anything and Lathan was good, but we didnt see any defense, despite his scoring against Wagner, Monmouth and St Peter's..

This years bench has way more upside with a lot of youth.

Nwuli is a future starter and can play good defense.

Buchanan is a steady veteran who can find 6 to 8PPG and can play good defense.

Harun Zrno is probably a player who isn't going to 25% for the season and is clearly a better player than PJ Hayes....at least a slightly better defender at worse.

Dortch is not going to match the scoring of Sommerville, but with the ability to switch and keep a closer tab on smaller offensive players, he helps close some of the gaps defensively. Consider any points a bonus for now, but this year's group of guards are good passers (Francis and JMike etc) so Dortch may be able to find a layup or 2.

I haven't even gotten to Lino Mark, who is going to be good and Kaden Powers who can easily step ahead of Zrno in 2 months, if progress isn't made.

If Baye Fall provides anything right now, great....same with Ware, but both will be better in 2 months vs today.

Considering how much effort this freshman class provides on defense and how Lehigh lost by 18 at #2 Houston, I consider a 12 point win vs Lehigh as very solid, especially for a bunch of freshman, JMike, Buchanan in his 3rd game at RU and Ogbole who took a step forward.

Let this bench get kicked around in Vegas, at Seton Hall, vs Purdue and at Michigan....I am encouraged that in a year, most of this roster will be back and we take a large step forward.....with some flashes of good play along the way this season...Considering how large of a jump JMike has taken from year 2 to now and Grant from last year to this year, most of these freshman will be making leaps forward as well.

Good points. But, I think center will still be an Achilles heel for RU in conference. I just don’t see Fall contributing anything. Watching him flounder around makes it hard to believe he was ever a top-ranked recruit out of HS. He’s already failed at 2 other high-major schools, so hoping he turns it around does not sound like a recipe for success.

 

[FIJI'83]

Buchanan has major upside

 

[FastMJ]

This...its a real white elephant that has to be brought up in every analysis

Also i hope Pike would be indentifying and targetting better players transfers from the portal to spend on while excising lesser players

excising lol. What are you a dermatologist?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Your posts actually magnifies how poor talent has been here the last few years

Maybe - but I’m not sure what that has to do with the point I made. Other programs (Washington and Dayton) were obviously willing to pay Lathan and Jordan whether we think they have talent or not. When Pike wanted to keep Caleb we found a way to keep him at Rutgers. All I’m saying is that we don’t know NIL is going to prevent us from keeping the bulk of the kids we actually want because so far we haven’t experienced that. Your assuming that’s because nobody else wanted the kids we retained and we otherwise would’ve lost them too but at the moment we don’t know that to be fact.

 

[koleszar]

I hope pike can keep the kids he wants to keep. Schiano has done a great job in the past in this area.

Big difference. Schiano goes out and gets NIL money, Pike sits back and hopes it will come from the Tooth Fairy.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Good points. But, I think center will still be an Achilles heel for RU in conference. I just don’t see Fall contributing anything. Watching him flounder around makes it hard to believe he was ever a top-ranked recruit out of HS. He’s already failed at 2 other high-major schools, so hoping he turns it around does not sound like a recipe for success.

I’m not expecting anything from Fall at this point. Hoping Big O can give us 25 mpg when we need him to and that we can get by for the other 15 with Grant, Buchanan and Dortch combo. It doesn’t appear we have much choice.

The bottom line is the damage was done last year when we cowtailed to Lathan and didn’t bring in another Big. If we weren’t planning to bring in anyone else from the start, getting rid of Wolf was a big mistake. I’d swap Fall for him in a second.

 

[Mholinko]

Perhaps - but I’m not entirely convinced we’ve actually even lost any priority players yet specifically because of NIL. Pike wants Cliff’s departure framed to be about money. I would too. But after a disappointing season perhaps Cliff was just looking to move on like J Young, MJ, Eugene and others before when money wasn’t involved at all. Paul did not leave because of money. Perhaps Cam did, but I think bringing Noah in was a big factor too.

Jordan was unhappy with his PT and had a foot out the door. That one was certainly not NIL nor did we really want to keep him here. Lathan was only about money from the perspective that Pike would’ve let him stay for free or cheap, but he wasn’t a good fit for the program at all. Had he been a stud defender and complemented last years team to an NCAA birth perhaps we would’ve ponied up the funds. I believe Pike proactively chose not to.

Time will tell but I’m optimistic that we will ultimately come up with the money to keep whoever Pike really wants. Argument can be made that he did so this year.

It doesn’t need to be spelled out on NJ.com by Jerry or the guys on here to deduce the impact of NIL in both aspects of your analysis

we are struggling to bring in top talent and coveted positions because of NIL and whether guys want to stay or not primarily because of NIL or secondarily we’re not competitive in the power 4 market anyway

most of the useful productive players we would’ve even been in the market to keeping they wanted to stay ended up getting more elsewhere than we would’ve likely paid them or could’ve afforded to

I won’t jump to conclusions but the talent gap will likely reveal itself in a couple weeks and while I agree with many we may get a few entertaining moments and upsets at the RAC I’m far far beyond a couple exciting moments in a 14-15 win season under the current regime

you gotta do more for me as a fan just like the football team does

there’s a fundamental problem in the athletic department now that I’m hopeful the current regime of president and AD and general managers can help with

 

[Mholinko]

Maybe - but I’m not sure what that has to do with the point I made. Other programs (Washington and Dayton) were obviously willing to pay Lathan and Jordan whether we think they have talent or not. When Pike wanted to keep Caleb we found a way to keep him at Rutgers. All I’m saying is that we don’t know NIL is going to prevent us from keeping the bulk of the kids we actually want because so far we haven’t experienced that. Your assuming that’s because nobody else wanted the kids we retained and we otherwise would’ve lost them too but at the moment we don’t know that to be fact.

NIL when Caleb was still here and NIL now is apples and oranges unfortunately

maybe the loyal son would’ve stayed but he would’ve been a VERY expensive keep unless he gave us a major home town discount

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

It doesn’t need to be spelled out on NJ.com by Jerry or the guys on here to deduce the impact of NIL in both aspects of your analysis

we are struggling to bring in top talent and coveted positions because of NIL and whether guys want to stay or not primarily because of NIL or secondarily we’re not competitive in the power 4 market anyway

most of the useful productive players we would’ve even been in the market to keeping they wanted to stay ended up getting more elsewhere than we would’ve likely paid them or could’ve afforded to

I won’t jump to conclusions but the talent gap will likely reveal itself in a couple weeks and while I agree with many we may get a few entertaining moments and upsets at the RAC I’m far far beyond a couple exciting moments in a 14-15 win season under the current regime

you gotta do more for me as a fan just like the football team does

there’s a fundamental problem in the athletic department now that I’m hopeful the current regime of president and AD and general managers can help with

None of this has anything to do with my post. I wasn’t arguing NIL won’t hurt our initial ability to recruit. Never said or suggested that.

I responded to someone’s complaint that there’s no point at all in player development now. Despite the financial challenges, I still believe it will / would be much easier to retain existing talent after a successful season than to go into the open market and buy players. I’m optimistic that Pike will be able to keep most guys that he really wants who wouldn’t otherwise look to leave outside of the money.

 

[KnightTerrors]

Buchanan has major upside

Possibly as a TE on the football team. Not on the basketball court.

 

[KnightTerrors]

Probably a good time to not overreact and make grand decisions on players....only mentioning the bench, because the vast difference between last years bench and this year are youth (upside) mixed with some veterans who had already reached their career ceilings.

1 year ago.....1st 3 games

Dylan Grant launched 2 air balls in mop up time in the opener and had walk ons subbed in over him on another game.

Dortch was scheduled to redshirt and hadn't played any minutes.

JMike averaged 23 minutes a game and put up around 6PPG, 2 RPG, 3 AST

We also had veterans PJ Hayes, Tyson Acuff off a broken foot, Lathan Sommerville (very productive averaged 12 to 13 PPG 6 RPG)

The starters were obviously Dylan and Ace. But were complimented with players who eventually got replaced in the starting lineup.....Zach Martini, Jordan Derkack and Ogbole remains the constant...

In 3 games last year, some fans wrote off Dylan Grant, said Dortch was never going to amount to anything and Lathan was good, but we didnt see any defense, despite his scoring against Wagner, Monmouth and St Peter's..

This years bench has way more upside with a lot of youth.

Nwuli is a future starter and can play good defense.

Buchanan is a steady veteran who can find 6 to 8PPG and can play good defense.

Harun Zrno is probably a player who isn't going to 25% for the season and is clearly a better player than PJ Hayes....at least a slightly better defender at worse.

Dortch is not going to match the scoring of Sommerville, but with the ability to switch and keep a closer tab on smaller offensive players, he helps close some of the gaps defensively. Consider any points a bonus for now, but this year's group of guards are good passers (Francis and JMike etc) so Dortch may be able to find a layup or 2.

I haven't even gotten to Lino Mark, who is going to be good and Kaden Powers who can easily step ahead of Zrno in 2 months, if progress isn't made.

If Baye Fall provides anything right now, great....same with Ware, but both will be better in 2 months vs today.

Considering how much effort this freshman class provides on defense and how Lehigh lost by 18 at #2 Houston, I consider a 12 point win vs Lehigh as very solid, especially for a bunch of freshman, JMike, Buchanan in his 3rd game at RU and Ogbole who took a step forward.

Let this bench get kicked around in Vegas, at Seton Hall, vs Purdue and at Michigan....I am encouraged that in a year, most of this roster will be back and we take a large step forward.....with some flashes of good play along the way this season...Considering how large of a jump JMike has taken from year 2 to now and Grant from last year to this year, most of these freshman will be making leaps forward as well.

After reading this I almost can’t believe we’re watching the same team.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

After reading this I almost can’t believe we’re watching the same team.

Have you concluded we’re going to be awful every single early season based on what you observe in these cupcake games? We’ve LITERALLY never blown the snot out every single tomato can by +25 points game in and out. Very few teams do. There are only a handful of teams each year that do. And it doesn’t even always translate into greatness in conference play. The one year we truly dominated nonconference we ended up in the NIT.

Can add another one to the list. With 14 to go in second half yesterday, Kansas was in a one point dogfight with a bad Princeton team. They broke the game open at the end and won by 18-19, but another example of a ranked team struggling to easily put away a midmajor.

 

[KnightTerrors]

Have you concluded we’re going to be awful every single early season based on what you observe in these cupcake games? We’ve LITERALLY never blown the snot out every single tomato can by +25 points game in and out. Very few teams do. There are only a handful of teams each year that do. And it doesn’t even always translate into greatness in conference play. The one year we truly dominated nonconference we ended up in the NIT.

Can add another one to the list. With 14 to go in second half yesterday, Kansas was in a one point dogfight with a bad Princeton team. They broke the game open at the end and won by 18-19, but another example of a ranked team struggling to easily put away a midmajor.

Nope. I actually tend to be extremely optimistic. This year is different. There is no path to this team being good and it’s due to a complete lack of big ten level talent. This is the type of roster we haven’t seen since maybe the Eddie years.

As for comparing it to Kansas— They won comfortably, have a HOF coach, and one of the most loaded rosters in the country. It’s apples to oranges. We don’t have a player that would see the floor on Kansas and many that wouldn’t play on any decent team in power 5.

 

[RUfan1977]

Given that Harper and Ace were one and done players and all the players who were out of eligibility, I like the players that Pikiel kept, all will be contributors and 3 I expect will be sold starters. Of the freshman and transfers that came in, 4 or 5 already seem like they will be solid contributors. However, the number of talented transfers most Big Ten teams have brought in will make this season challenging.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Nope. I actually tend to be extremely optimistic. This year is different. There is no path to this team being good and it’s due to a complete lack of big ten level talent. This is the type of roster we haven’t seen since maybe the Eddie years.

As for comparing it to Kansas— They won comfortably, have a HOF coach, and one of the most loaded rosters in the country. It’s apples to oranges. We don’t have a player that would see the floor on Kansas and many that wouldn’t play on any decent team in power 5.

My point is - they were tested just the same for most of their game. They ultimately won by 19. We won by 12. They started to pull away in their game a little before us with 13-14 minutes vs us with 8-9 min. Most teams don’t blow out their opponents from opening tip. The actually output in the games so far far been fine. The lack of paper talent is not all that relevant yet. We’ve actually performed better early than many of our more talented teams. Certainly better than the tournament team that needed OT vs Lehigh and lost early to Lafayette.

 

[Mholinko]

Nope. I actually tend to be extremely optimistic. This year is different. There is no path to this team being good and it’s due to a complete lack of big ten level talent. This is the type of roster we haven’t seen since maybe the Eddie years.

As for comparing it to Kansas— They won comfortably, have a HOF coach, and one of the most loaded rosters in the country. It’s apples to oranges. We don’t have a player that would see the floor on Kansas and many that wouldn’t play on any decent team in power 5.

This

idc how comfortably other teams are winning their games especially a program like Kansas or Houston or Purdue when they’ve proven over many seasons with hall of fame coaches that they have some runway with a couple close calls and have enough talent and previous success that it doesn’t need to be dissected

we’re coming off several subpar seasons and one disastrous season with two top 5 draft picks the optics don’t allow for me to say oh well Houston only won by 15 so our lackluster effort is justified or not worrisome

 

[RUBB86]

This

idc how comfortably other teams are winning their games especially a program like Kansas or Houston or Purdue when they’ve proven over many seasons with hall of fame coaches that they have some runway with a couple close calls and have enough talent and previous success that it doesn’t need to be dissected

we’re coming off several subpar seasons and one disastrous season with two top 5 draft picks the optics don’t allow for me to say oh well Houston only won by 15 so our lackluster effort is justified or not worrisome

I'm sorry but effort isn't an issue. There are issues but I haven't seen any lack of effort. That's just disrespectful and frankly not even close to true.

 

[KnightTerrors]

My point is - they were tested just the same for most of their game. They ultimately won by 19. We won by 12. They started to pull away in their game a little before us with 13-14 minutes vs us with 8-9 min. Most teams don’t blow out their opponents from opening tip. The actually output in the games so far far been fine. The lack of paper talent is not all that relevant yet. We’ve actually performed better early than many of our more talented teams. Certainly better than the tournament team that needed OT vs Lehigh and lost early to Lafayette.

I understand what you’re trying to say but I think it’s the exact opposite. The year you’re referencing was a roster with Harper, Geo, Cliff, Caleb, Paul. Early season sleepwalk game with a clearly talented roster that were upperclassman and had already won. It’s great we’re beating the cupcakes in front of us but it’s clear as day this isn’t a roster that can compete in conference.

 

[cRURah]

From what I’ve seen so far, the outlook in conference is bleak. Despite that, I’ll be in Vegas pulling for my Scarlet Knights.

 

[RUfan1977]

I understand what you’re trying to say but I think it’s the exact opposite. The year you’re referencing was a roster with Harper, Geo, Cliff, Caleb, Paul. Early season sleepwalk game with a clearly talented roster that were upperclassman and had already won. It’s great we’re beating the cupcakes in front of us but it’s clear as day this isn’t a roster that can compete in conference.

The 2021 - 2022 tournament team was shockingly bad early season especially taking into account that they had made the NCAAs the year before. In addition to needing overtime to beat Lehigh and losing to Lafayette, they also lost to DePaul, UMass and Seton Hall in OOC play. They needed to beat #1 Purdue and then 4 ranked teams in a row in Big Ten play to get on the bubble and play in Dayton. They also only beat NJIT by 14 and Merrimack by 13 even though they had an incredible defensive effort. The only reason there was the slightest hope that they could make the NCAAs was because they did it before.

As for this year’s team, in order to make the NCAAs, they will need to win the games they are expected to win along with games that they are not expected to win. I understand why it’s fair to say that this team will likely finish at the bottom of the Big Ten because so many players are young or unproven, but enough players have looked good that they can be competitive even this yesr if Pikiel can bring out their best and get them to do what each of them does best. The odds are against them, but we really don’t know how they willl compete until they actually hit the Big Ten part of the season.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I'm sorry but effort isn't an issue. There are issues but I haven't seen any lack of effort. That's just disrespectful and frankly not even close to true.

There’s no issue with effort, and the early season results on the court this season simply have not stood out as “horrible” relative to other Rutgers seasons.

Nope. I actually tend to be extremely optimistic. This year is different. There is no path to this team being good and it’s due to a complete lack of big ten level talent. This is the type of roster we haven’t seen since maybe the Eddie years.

As for comparing it to Kansas— They won comfortably, have a HOF coach, and one of the most loaded rosters in the country. It’s apples to oranges. We don’t have a player that would see the floor on Kansas and many that wouldn’t play on any decent team in power 5.

Eddie Jordan? Come on man. Stop acting like we opened the season grinding out a win vs a DIII school like Rutgers-Newark or something. That RU team by the way, lost significant talent in Freeman a few games later. Freeman scored 13 vs RU- Newark so that one arguably a loss without him. We’re nowhere near as bad as that team.

Forget Kansas if you like. Only a few games in - conference peers who have not won all their low major games by 12+:

Indiana 69 - Incarerate Word 61
Minny 75 - Green Bay 69 OT
UCLA 80 - East Washington 74 or UCLA 74 - Pepperdine 63
Michigan St 80 - Colgate 69
Purdue 87 - Oakland 77
PSU 76 - Fairfield 68 or PSU 80 - Navy 71
Oregon 60 Hawaii 59 or Oregon 67 - Rice 63

Almost half. Washington just missed with a 13 point win over Denver. Very few conference teams have a clean slate of 20+ dominated wins. We likely will suck, as the paper talent suggests - but in terms of the actually game outcomes what we’ve done so far blends fine with the crowd. Put differently - in BAC terms, if miraculously we end up 20-12 or whatever none of our first 3 game results are on the resume concern radar or raise eyebrows. It’s an untrue statement to say we’ve looked or performed historically poor to date.

 

[KnightTerrors]

There’s no issue with effort, and the early season results on the court this season simply have not stood out as “horrible” relative to other Rutgers seasons.


Eddie Jordan? Come on man. Stop acting like we opened the season in a nail biter
with a DIII school like Rutgers-Newark or something.

Forget Kansas if you like. Only a few games in - conference peers who have not won all their low major games by 12+:

Indiana 69 - Incarerate Word 61
Minny 75 - Green Bay 69 OT
UCLA 80 - East Washington 74
Michigan St 80 - Colgate 69
Purdue 87 - Oakland 77
PSU 76 - Fairfield 68 or PSU 80 - Navy 71
Oregon 60 Hawaii 59 or Oregon 67 - Rice 63

Almost half. Washington just missed with a 13 point win over Denver. Very few conference teams have a clean slate of 20+ dominated wins. We likely will suck, as the paper talent suggests - but in terms of the actually game outcomes what we’ve done so far blends fine with the crowd. Put differently - in BAC terms, if miraculously we end up 20-12 or whatever none of our first 3 game results are on the resume concern radar or raise eyebrows.

You keep coming back to the result of beating the 300+ ranked teams so far. Yes, I’m happy we did and that’s great. My point is I’m using my eyes evaluating the actual talent of this roster and it’s clear to me we won’t be able to compete in conference. By that I mean win more than 5-6 games.

And yes to Eddie years talent. Corey Sanders and Deshawn Freeman would be the most talented players on this current roster. Shaq Doorson would play over Ogbole. Is Jmike better than Nigel Johnson?

The difference is Pike is a much better coach than Eddie. That’s why he doubled the win total in his first year with mainly Eddie’s players.

I’m not saying the results will be Eddie level win totals but I don’t think this roster is far off talent wise.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

You keep coming back to the result of beating the 300+ ranked teams so far. Yes, I’m happy we did and that’s great. My point is I’m using my eyes evaluating the actual talent of this roster and it’s clear to me we won’t be able to compete in conference. By that I mean win more than 5-6 games.

And yes to Eddie years talent. Corey Sanders and Deshawn Freeman would be the most talented players on this current roster. Shaq Doorson would play over Ogbole. Is Jmike better than Nigel Johnson?

The difference is Pike is a much better coach than Eddie. That’s why he doubled the win total in his first year with mainly Eddie’s players.

I’m not saying the results will be Eddie level win totals but I don’t think this roster is far off talent wise.

Freeman was out for the season after like 4 games. But regardless - this team is performing much better so far against low majors than that team did. It’s not even close. They beat Newark (D3 by 13 in what was a close game WITH Freeman).

Stop with the Kenpom nonsense. At this point, Lehigh is one and the same with the list of those teams. After 3 games - you have literally no idea if Lehigh, for example, is 100 spots worse than Incarcerate Word. That assessment, has to be based on last year because outside of beating D2 and D3 schools, before playing Indiana all IW had on their resume was a 34 point loss to Colorado State. MOV isn’t everything but come on - the only available information to compare that to is Lehigh’s pair of 18 and 21 point losses to Houston and WVU. I’m not a big believer in MOV and garbage time points myself, but KenPom doesn’t recognize it so that clearly means if it thinks IW is that much better it has to be basing it on information from prior years in combo with valuing IW’s play vs Indiana more than Rutgers.

 

[KnightTerrors]

Freeman was out for the season after like 4 games. But regardless - this team is performing much better so far against low majors than that team did. It’s not even close. They beat Newark (D3 by 13 in what was a close game WITH Freeman).

Stop with the Kenpom nonsense. At this point, Lehigh is one and the same with the list of those teams. After 3 games - you have literally no idea if Lehigh, for example, is 100 spots worse than Incarcerate Word. That assessment, has to be based on last year because outside of beating D2 and D3 schools, before playing Indiana all IW had on their resume was a 34 point loss to Colorado State. MOV isn’t everything but come on - the only available information to compare that to is Lehigh’s pair of 18 and 21 point losses to Houston and WVU. I’m not a big believer in MOV and garbage time points myself, but KenPom doesn’t recognize it so that clearly means if it thinks IW is that much better it has to be basing it on information from prior years in combo with valuing IW’s play vs Indiana more than Rutgers.

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree and see how the season plays out. I’ll be in my seat as always and rooting hard for the best outcome. Time will tell!

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree and see how the season plays out. I’ll be in my seat as always and rooting hard for the best outcome. Time will tell!

How the season plays out from here is not relevant to my point at all. Even if we lose out from here, how we performed on the court in games 1-3 against low majors will never qualify as “historically” bad.

Auburn needed OT to get past Bethune Cookman. Losing that would’ve been historically bad and even needing OT eye popping. Yesterday Auburn lost to Houston at the buzzer, so as you see, things change. But the past does not. Our resume has 3 double digit wins on it. That will never qualify as historically bad.

 

[Mholinko]

I'm sorry but effort isn't an issue. There are issues but I haven't seen any lack of effort. That's just disrespectful and frankly not even close to true.

I don’t know where I implied effort was an issue

I stated that it doesn’t matter to me how close Houston or Purdue or Kansas or a top flight team with a great track record and hall of fame coach and multiple final fours play against an easy opponent early on because they’ve earned enough goodwill with the fan base and reputation and past results that it will turn out fine

Rutgers has not proven anything over the last few years since the tournament seasons which were now 4-5 years ago

I’ve been to all 3 games I know the kids are trying and giving the best effort. That’s clear to me. I can’t ignore the the deficiencies that we can get away with against rider but certainly won’t against Tennessee and Purdue and Michigan state

Again I’m optimistic but even in the seasons with the close games against Lafayette and Bryant etc you KNEW you had 3-4 players or more that were better than every single guy on this team as currently stands and had a lot more confidence they’d figure it out because they’d been there before the previous season

 

[ancienthooper]

I don’t know where I implied effort was an issue

I stated that it doesn’t matter to me how close Houston or Purdue or Kansas or a top flight team with a great track record and hall of fame coach and multiple final fours play against an easy opponent early on because they’ve earned enough goodwill with the fan base and reputation and past results that it will turn out fine

Rutgers has not proven anything over the last few years since the tournament seasons which were now 4-5 years ago

I’ve been to all 3 games I know the kids are trying and giving the best effort. That’s clear to me. I can’t ignore the the deficiencies that we can get away with against rider but certainly won’t against Tennessee and Purdue and Michigan state

Again I’m optimistic but even in the seasons with the close games against Lafayette and Bryant etc you KNEW you had 3-4 players or more that were better than every single guy on this team as currently stands and had a lot more confidence they’d figure it out because they’d been there before the previous season

What does “lackluster effort” imply?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I don’t know where I implied effort was an issue

I stated that it doesn’t matter to me how close Houston or Purdue or Kansas or a top flight team with a great track record and hall of fame coach and multiple final fours play against an easy opponent early on because they’ve earned enough goodwill with the fan base and reputation and past results that it will turn out fine

Rutgers has not proven anything over the last few years since the tournament seasons which were now 4-5 years ago

I’ve been to all 3 games I know the kids are trying and giving the best effort. That’s clear to me. I can’t ignore the the deficiencies that we can get away with against rider but certainly won’t against Tennessee and Purdue and Michigan state

Again I’m optimistic but even in the seasons with the close games against Lafayette and Bryant etc you KNEW you had 3-4 players or more that were better than every single guy on this team as currently stands and had a lot more confidence they’d figure it out because they’d been there before the previous season

That last part is perhaps a better way of looking at the point I’ve been trying to make. What you “KNEW” was based on past season results, certainly not those players collective performance in those nailbiter / upset games.

Flipped the other way, if Geo had put up J Mike’s exact stat line against the exact same competition in the first 3 games - would anyone be sounding alarms about his drop off in play (14 ppg / 2.3 / 1 *** to TO / 4 rpg / 44.4% from 3, and 47.8% from the floor overall). The answer is an emphatic NO and every single poster on here would have to admit that to be the truth. There is no player on any of those teams (RHJ or take your pick) who anyone would be concerned about having put up DG’s stat line through 3 games. 18.3 ppg / 7 rpg. Give me a break. Guess what - even Big O’s stat line - if those were MJ’s numbers - nobody would be screaming bloody murder there either. In fact - Ogbole’s output is similar to what MJ did for us in the first 3 games of each of his years at RU. Tariq sits at 12.3 ppg / 4.3 rpg / *** / TO 3.3 / 1.7 and 35.3% from 3. If that was Paul’s stat line - anyone sounding the alarms?

Again, I am not predicting anything forward looking about these players. I’m simply saying that we have not performed historically poorly “yet” and IMO it’s an insult to the kids on our team to imply as much right now.

 

[KnightTerrors]

How the season plays out from here is not relevant to my point at all. Even if we lose out from here, how we performed on the court in games 1-3 against low majors will never qualify as “historically” bad.

Auburn needed OT to get past Bethune Cookman. Losing that would’ve been historically bad and even needing OT eye popping. Yesterday Auburn lost to Houston at the buzzer, so as you see, things change. But the past does not. Our resume has 3 double digit wins on it. That will never qualify as historically bad.

Huh? I’m lost. I think you may be confusing my posts for someone else’s. I never argued that playing close games early in the year to bad competition is an indictment on the season. I understand how common that is. My point is actually the opposite. this roster is so obviously not a big ten quality roster and all signs point to this being a very bad season. I’m not encouraged by taking care of the cupcakes because it’s clear over the stretch of conference play this is not a roster that will perform well.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Huh? I’m lost. I think you may be confusing my posts for someone else’s. I never argued that playing close games early in the year to bad competition is an indictment on the season. I understand how common that is. My point is actually the opposite. this roster is so obviously not a big ten quality roster and all signs point to this being a very bad season. I’m not encouraged by taking care of the cupcakes because it’s clear over the stretch of conference play this is not a roster that will perform well.

You replied to my post which addressed specifically that and only that in response to several earlier posts. I NEVER suggested what we’ve done means we’ll do better than pre-season expectations against better teams. We have posters calling out how poor we’ve looked specifically saying it’s obvious we’ll be historically bad. It just doesn’t make any sense and it should stop until we actually start looking measurably worse than our peers or prior Rutgers teams usually do against cupcakes. If any other Rutgers team had produced the exact same results to date against the exact same opponents nobody would be comparing this team to the Jordan era. The negativity is about paper expectations - not performance to date. So picking at negative stats from the games we’ve played so far more than we would any other year after 3 consecutive double digit wins seems unfair to our players. For the moment, anyway. That was my only point.

 

[LeapinLou]

Big difference. Schiano goes out and gets NIL money, Pike sits back and hopes it will come from the Tooth Fairy.

Agree. I think the big difference between Pike and Schiano is that Pike is more interested in being a basketball coach than anything else. I think Schiano is more interested in winning than anything else. Their actions off the court/field reflect this. At least now, Rutgers has someone in charge of raising NIL for the basketball team.

 

[LeapinLou]

Dortch is not going to match the scoring of Sommerville, but with the ability to switch and keep a closer tab on smaller offensive players, he helps close some of the gaps defensively. Consider any points a bonus for now, but this year's group of guards are good passers (Francis and JMike etc) so Dortch may be able to find a layup or 2.

This got me to thinking. Is it possible that Dortch could have a better +/- rating than Sommerville when all is said and done? If Lathan scores 10, but the other team scores every trip down the court, what good is it? Conversely, if Dortch scores 2, but the team is able to keep the game in rock fight mode, who are we better off with?

 

[rucoe89]

Probably a good time to not overreact and make grand decisions on players....only mentioning the bench, because the vast difference between last years bench and this year are youth (upside) mixed with some veterans who had already reached their career ceilings.

1 year ago.....1st 3 games

Dylan Grant launched 2 air balls in mop up time in the opener and had walk ons subbed in over him on another game.

Dortch was scheduled to redshirt and hadn't played any minutes.

JMike averaged 23 minutes a game and put up around 6PPG, 2 RPG, 3 AST

We also had veterans PJ Hayes, Tyson Acuff off a broken foot, Lathan Sommerville (very productive averaged 12 to 13 PPG 6 RPG)

The starters were obviously Dylan and Ace. But were complimented with players who eventually got replaced in the starting lineup.....Zach Martini, Jordan Derkack and Ogbole remains the constant...

In 3 games last year, some fans wrote off Dylan Grant, said Dortch was never going to amount to anything and Lathan was good, but we didnt see any defense, despite his scoring against Wagner, Monmouth and St Peter's..

This years bench has way more upside with a lot of youth.

Nwuli is a future starter and can play good defense.

Buchanan is a steady veteran who can find 6 to 8PPG and can play good defense.

Harun Zrno is probably a player who isn't going to 25% for the season and is clearly a better player than PJ Hayes....at least a slightly better defender at worse.

Dortch is not going to match the scoring of Sommerville, but with the ability to switch and keep a closer tab on smaller offensive players, he helps close some of the gaps defensively. Consider any points a bonus for now, but this year's group of guards are good passers (Francis and JMike etc) so Dortch may be able to find a layup or 2.

I haven't even gotten to Lino Mark, who is going to be good and Kaden Powers who can easily step ahead of Zrno in 2 months, if progress isn't made.

If Baye Fall provides anything right now, great....same with Ware, but both will be better in 2 months vs today.

Considering how much effort this freshman class provides on defense and how Lehigh lost by 18 at #2 Houston, I consider a 12 point win vs Lehigh as very solid, especially for a bunch of freshman, JMike, Buchanan in his 3rd game at RU and Ogbole who took a step forward.

Let this bench get kicked around in Vegas, at Seton Hall, vs Purdue and at Michigan....I am encouraged that in a year, most of this roster will be back and we take a large step forward.....with some flashes of good play along the way this season...Considering how large of a jump JMike has taken from year 2 to now and Grant from last year to this year, most of these freshman will be making leaps forward as well.

We have not played anyone even close to what we will see in Vegas and the Big 10. The analysis works for Patriot League but you could argue the performances will mean big trouble when real competition starts. This team have overwhelmed no one through 3 cupcake games.