State Baseball Quarterfinals: Riverheads vs Colonial Beach
- Thread starter kwhs95fan
- Start date
Thanks. He was the one I was thinking of. He pitched very well tonight in their victory. I believe he had 10 strikeouts.
Not to take anything away from the Riverheads tonight because a win is a win regardless of how you get it, but it’s a shame the officials didn’t call an even game and let the players prove who was the best team of the field today. I thought I’d seen some bad officiating this season, but that was mediocre umpiring at its best - behind the plate and In the field. Absolutely horrible.
It’s a travesty to these players who’ve worked their tails off to get that far, then fall victim to umpires who make blatant bad calls in the field and have an inconsistent strike zone behind the plate. Squeeze the pitchers as much as possible. Force the game to become stand and watch. Then miss several calls that lead to unearned runs. Great job.
Based on what some of the fans were saying, that wasn’t the first time they’d seen bad officiating from some of those same umpires. Makes you wonder.
The umpires “ruined/spoiled” the players and fans opportunity to see a good game, win or lose. If a team is going to lose, let the opposing team beat them legitimately. When it’s down to 8 teams competing to get to the championship, you’d think officials would get better. Well that obviously isn’t the case. I think these officials were scraped from the bottom of the barrel. If the officials want to inject themselves in the game that badly, they should go join a softball league. Let the players play and keep the games fair. If you’re not going to call games properly, hang up the uniform.
It’s a travesty to these players who’ve worked their tails off to get that far, then fall victim to umpires who make blatant bad calls in the field and have an inconsistent strike zone behind the plate. Squeeze the pitchers as much as possible. Force the game to become stand and watch. Then miss several calls that lead to unearned runs. Great job.
Based on what some of the fans were saying, that wasn’t the first time they’d seen bad officiating from some of those same umpires. Makes you wonder.
The umpires “ruined/spoiled” the players and fans opportunity to see a good game, win or lose. If a team is going to lose, let the opposing team beat them legitimately. When it’s down to 8 teams competing to get to the championship, you’d think officials would get better. Well that obviously isn’t the case. I think these officials were scraped from the bottom of the barrel. If the officials want to inject themselves in the game that badly, they should go join a softball league. Let the players play and keep the games fair. If you’re not going to call games properly, hang up the uniform.
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Well we have just read Sportzone66's take on the game, up to and including the accusation of cheating (his word, not mine unless he comes back on here and edits it) on the part of the officials. But I will just pass that right on by and do my usual thing if you guys don't mind.
I personally was much more impressed with CB today than I expected to be. I had seen their record, read that they were only fifth in their own district, and considering that Riverheads was unbeaten at home and riding a 15 game winning streak, I quite frankly expected a Gladiator blowout. But the pitcher Delanie came as advertised and with the exception of a little wildness in the third, when Riverheads scored three times to take the lead, he pretty much had his way with the Big Red hitters.
But in the final analysis, he was done in by the pitching count rule. Some of the more savvy Gladiator fans in the stands were following the game on their apps, and therefore they knew he was about to be replaced even before it happened on the field. So when he was pulled after facing one batter in the bottom of the 7th, the Gladiators were able to work the reliever for a very tense win that featured classic baseball drama that kept the fans on the edge of their seats.
To start from the beginning, the Drifters had a golden opportunity in the top of the first to take control of the game when they worked RHS starter Elijah Dunlap into a bases-loaded jam. But the Big Red kept its poise and worked out of it without any damage. By contrast, Dunlap then struck out the side in the Drifter second.
CB then scored first to grab a 1-0 lead in the top of the third. But then Delanie (sp.?) experienced his only real ineffective inning in the bottom half of the frame as he walked two batters and also balked in a run. Michael Robertson, who might deserve the Player of the Game award for RHS, which I will touch upon later, had a crucial hit to drive in the first Gladiator run and the aforementioned wildness led to two more as RHS forged ahead 3-1. The Gladiators then added another in the fourth to take their biggest lead of the game at 4-1.
The Drifters then came storming back, scoring once in the fifth and twice more in the sixth to tie things up and set the stage for a frantic seventh inning. By this time Robertson had relieved Dunlap on the mound and he figured prominently in the dramatic win.
First of all, with Big Mo perhaps on the side of the Drifters because of their comeback, he shut them down in the top of the seventh without a serious threat, and in fact recorded the final CB out unassisted when he caught a pop up to the mound.
Then, by luck of the draw, he was the only batter Delanie was allowed to face in the home half of the seventh. He proceeded to deliver a lead-off single, and I am sure I don't have to tell you fans how important it is in baseball to get your lead-off man on base. As if that wasn't important enough, he then stole second to put the winning run in scoring position with no outs. At that point, Gladiator fans could sense that they were about to pull it out, but they just didn't know how.
To the Drifters' credit, they did not cave in to the pressure as they induced a pop up to the shortstop for the first out and then got a force out at third for out number two. But another walk (maybe two) loaded the bases and set the stage for what was most likely the most intense at-bat of Senior Catcher Forrest Shuey's career.
I won't be able to remember every pitch but I "think" he fell into an 0-2 hole. But he stayed patient and worked the relief pitcher to a full count. It is every baseball fan's dream to see the home team down to its final at-bat with two outs, bases-loaded and a full count on the batter, but we certainly were treated to that level of drama tonight. Shuey stretched it out even one pitch further by slicing one down the left field line that curved foul and fell to the ground, even though the Drifters' left-fielder made a valiant effort to end the inning with a circus catch.
Finally the game ended and the Gladiators punched their ticket to Pulaski with the walked-in run. Although our friend Sportzone did not seem to zero in on that one call as being the deciding factor, I will simply say this about the game-winning call.........Riverheads, because of the design of the field, is quite frankly one of the worst diamonds in this entire area for the home fans to see the plate. So there is not one spectator from Riverheads who could come on here and confidently say "I saw it and it was definitely the right call." Someone in the press box, maybe, but not someone along the first base line. Therefore it would seem to me, and remember I didn't see it clearly either, that if Shuey had the mental toughness and discipline to stand there and take a pitch under those circumstances that I just described as opposed to giving into the temptation to swing away; AND if the umpire called it Ball Four, then that would appear to be two "pretty good indications" that it was in fact a ball.
I can certainly feel for the Drifters and their fans because nobody likes to lose a game like that. I have always said (mainly about football and basketball) that I would rather my team lose by 50 points than to lose at the final buzzer. So I guess tonight's game was the baseball equivalent of that kind of heartbreaker and the Gladiators survived and advanced as they say.
So next up will be Auburn on Friday down in Pulaski. That in itself is a little disappointing to hear because some of us had figured out if Chilhowie had pulled that one out (and I think the Warriors had a seventh-inning lead) then RHS would have been the home team Friday. But with Auburn coming back to win it however they did, I think (but don't quote me) that they will be the home team Friday, as well as getting to play in their own back yard.
Needless to say, the Gladiators may need a double dose of tonight's mental toughness to pull out a win in that one.
I personally was much more impressed with CB today than I expected to be. I had seen their record, read that they were only fifth in their own district, and considering that Riverheads was unbeaten at home and riding a 15 game winning streak, I quite frankly expected a Gladiator blowout. But the pitcher Delanie came as advertised and with the exception of a little wildness in the third, when Riverheads scored three times to take the lead, he pretty much had his way with the Big Red hitters.
But in the final analysis, he was done in by the pitching count rule. Some of the more savvy Gladiator fans in the stands were following the game on their apps, and therefore they knew he was about to be replaced even before it happened on the field. So when he was pulled after facing one batter in the bottom of the 7th, the Gladiators were able to work the reliever for a very tense win that featured classic baseball drama that kept the fans on the edge of their seats.
To start from the beginning, the Drifters had a golden opportunity in the top of the first to take control of the game when they worked RHS starter Elijah Dunlap into a bases-loaded jam. But the Big Red kept its poise and worked out of it without any damage. By contrast, Dunlap then struck out the side in the Drifter second.
CB then scored first to grab a 1-0 lead in the top of the third. But then Delanie (sp.?) experienced his only real ineffective inning in the bottom half of the frame as he walked two batters and also balked in a run. Michael Robertson, who might deserve the Player of the Game award for RHS, which I will touch upon later, had a crucial hit to drive in the first Gladiator run and the aforementioned wildness led to two more as RHS forged ahead 3-1. The Gladiators then added another in the fourth to take their biggest lead of the game at 4-1.
The Drifters then came storming back, scoring once in the fifth and twice more in the sixth to tie things up and set the stage for a frantic seventh inning. By this time Robertson had relieved Dunlap on the mound and he figured prominently in the dramatic win.
First of all, with Big Mo perhaps on the side of the Drifters because of their comeback, he shut them down in the top of the seventh without a serious threat, and in fact recorded the final CB out unassisted when he caught a pop up to the mound.
Then, by luck of the draw, he was the only batter Delanie was allowed to face in the home half of the seventh. He proceeded to deliver a lead-off single, and I am sure I don't have to tell you fans how important it is in baseball to get your lead-off man on base. As if that wasn't important enough, he then stole second to put the winning run in scoring position with no outs. At that point, Gladiator fans could sense that they were about to pull it out, but they just didn't know how.
To the Drifters' credit, they did not cave in to the pressure as they induced a pop up to the shortstop for the first out and then got a force out at third for out number two. But another walk (maybe two) loaded the bases and set the stage for what was most likely the most intense at-bat of Senior Catcher Forrest Shuey's career.
I won't be able to remember every pitch but I "think" he fell into an 0-2 hole. But he stayed patient and worked the relief pitcher to a full count. It is every baseball fan's dream to see the home team down to its final at-bat with two outs, bases-loaded and a full count on the batter, but we certainly were treated to that level of drama tonight. Shuey stretched it out even one pitch further by slicing one down the left field line that curved foul and fell to the ground, even though the Drifters' left-fielder made a valiant effort to end the inning with a circus catch.
Finally the game ended and the Gladiators punched their ticket to Pulaski with the walked-in run. Although our friend Sportzone did not seem to zero in on that one call as being the deciding factor, I will simply say this about the game-winning call.........Riverheads, because of the design of the field, is quite frankly one of the worst diamonds in this entire area for the home fans to see the plate. So there is not one spectator from Riverheads who could come on here and confidently say "I saw it and it was definitely the right call." Someone in the press box, maybe, but not someone along the first base line. Therefore it would seem to me, and remember I didn't see it clearly either, that if Shuey had the mental toughness and discipline to stand there and take a pitch under those circumstances that I just described as opposed to giving into the temptation to swing away; AND if the umpire called it Ball Four, then that would appear to be two "pretty good indications" that it was in fact a ball.
I can certainly feel for the Drifters and their fans because nobody likes to lose a game like that. I have always said (mainly about football and basketball) that I would rather my team lose by 50 points than to lose at the final buzzer. So I guess tonight's game was the baseball equivalent of that kind of heartbreaker and the Gladiators survived and advanced as they say.
So next up will be Auburn on Friday down in Pulaski. That in itself is a little disappointing to hear because some of us had figured out if Chilhowie had pulled that one out (and I think the Warriors had a seventh-inning lead) then RHS would have been the home team Friday. But with Auburn coming back to win it however they did, I think (but don't quote me) that they will be the home team Friday, as well as getting to play in their own back yard.
Needless to say, the Gladiators may need a double dose of tonight's mental toughness to pull out a win in that one.
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Really didn’t see any unfairness one way or the other the home plate umpire was very inconsistent on is strike zone and tight but I thought that was for both teams couple plays at third the ball clearly beat the runner but umpire was standing right over top of the play so you can say what you want he was closer than I was. Hey long timer only one out in bottom of 7th when the walk-off happened
Of course it’s debatable whether the calls were right or wrong, whether the home plate umpire missed key strike calls or not, etc. But for anyone who watched that game, there were 3 or more calls that were critical, and gave the riverheads runs (or led to it), and not once did any of those calls go towards CB.
The play where the catcher threw to first after ‘catching’ the 3rd strike because not one of 4 umpires made a sound. 4 officials, what’s the call? Two times the ball beats the runner to 3rd and neither time is an out despite the fact that kids made a tag at the bag? One the kid slid off the bag. One the kid slid into the tag. It’s not even a question whether the throw beat them in BOTH cases, but neither is an out? Then a balk call that no one saw, or even knew happened. Home plate, you are looking directly at the pitcher when he’s delivering right?? And you didn’t see it. I’m pretty sure that kid knows how to pitch without balking. Cmon. And Of course the last pitch. Yes, There was another out to go in the at bat, but get for real. The guy just called a strike on almost the same location in that same series. Catcher sticks it thigh high and never flinched??? Ah yes, we know, spectators couldn’t see...but you don’t have to stand on home plate to see everything. And of course, we know, it’s a strike/ball if that’s what the umpire calls it. But the umpire called it low, and you can easily see ball flight even off to the sides when you’re ground level. I go back to the fact that the catcher sticks it above the knees and never moves. No need to ‘frame it’. What’s to question unless he calls it inside or out? But he called it low. Everyone watching knows it turned to a game of stand and watch because of his calling. So whether the kid swung or not is irrelevant. There were plenty of ‘close’ pitches they didn’t swing at. Why would they when the umpire had a 6 inch strike zone! Take away the high inconsistency and there would also have been several more strikeouts from the CB pitcher. But that’s the least impact to the game.
So adjust any of those key plays/calls that led to a run, and the outcome likely changes. Yes, we’ll hear it again I’m sure... “You couldn’t see it”, “the umpire was right there”, etc. Still doesn’t mean the calls were right. The main issue I’m debating has nothing to do with riverheads, it has to do with the fact that there were 4 umpires in an important game and every call went against CB, and just about each one led to a run. And the fact that ALL of those calls are highly debatable and some on the verge of blatant mistakes. At this point of the season, the umpiring should not be that bad. So it can be labeled anyway you prefer, the umpiring became a bigger part of that game than the kids actually playing baseball to determine who the best team was. The outcome wasn’t clearly decided by Riverheads beating CB. The umpires beat CB by themselves. That should not be happening at this stage.
The play where the catcher threw to first after ‘catching’ the 3rd strike because not one of 4 umpires made a sound. 4 officials, what’s the call? Two times the ball beats the runner to 3rd and neither time is an out despite the fact that kids made a tag at the bag? One the kid slid off the bag. One the kid slid into the tag. It’s not even a question whether the throw beat them in BOTH cases, but neither is an out? Then a balk call that no one saw, or even knew happened. Home plate, you are looking directly at the pitcher when he’s delivering right?? And you didn’t see it. I’m pretty sure that kid knows how to pitch without balking. Cmon. And Of course the last pitch. Yes, There was another out to go in the at bat, but get for real. The guy just called a strike on almost the same location in that same series. Catcher sticks it thigh high and never flinched??? Ah yes, we know, spectators couldn’t see...but you don’t have to stand on home plate to see everything. And of course, we know, it’s a strike/ball if that’s what the umpire calls it. But the umpire called it low, and you can easily see ball flight even off to the sides when you’re ground level. I go back to the fact that the catcher sticks it above the knees and never moves. No need to ‘frame it’. What’s to question unless he calls it inside or out? But he called it low. Everyone watching knows it turned to a game of stand and watch because of his calling. So whether the kid swung or not is irrelevant. There were plenty of ‘close’ pitches they didn’t swing at. Why would they when the umpire had a 6 inch strike zone! Take away the high inconsistency and there would also have been several more strikeouts from the CB pitcher. But that’s the least impact to the game.
So adjust any of those key plays/calls that led to a run, and the outcome likely changes. Yes, we’ll hear it again I’m sure... “You couldn’t see it”, “the umpire was right there”, etc. Still doesn’t mean the calls were right. The main issue I’m debating has nothing to do with riverheads, it has to do with the fact that there were 4 umpires in an important game and every call went against CB, and just about each one led to a run. And the fact that ALL of those calls are highly debatable and some on the verge of blatant mistakes. At this point of the season, the umpiring should not be that bad. So it can be labeled anyway you prefer, the umpiring became a bigger part of that game than the kids actually playing baseball to determine who the best team was. The outcome wasn’t clearly decided by Riverheads beating CB. The umpires beat CB by themselves. That should not be happening at this stage.
I’m with you it was an ugly officiated game and it should be better at this time of year, in 2011 ball it down line clearly fair two runs scored ump called foul ball ended up losing 3-1 and it was 1-1 at the time (state championship game) the two plays at third no third base umpire they would have both called out. The last pitch of game if he said was low not from were I was, inside possibly not low
Balls and strikes are a subjective call so while I agree with the above statements, there is no "clear" argument with those calls. As flawed as the human factor is to these games, it is also a vital factor. Imagine a game where you never get the "edge" called for a strike? In my opinion you can only hope that you get a consistent official that has the same strike zone size and location throughout a game. With that said, I absolutely agree the officiating has/is affecting games and it does get frustrating. It doesn't do any good now but short of computerized strike zone and video replays at the HS level, we are at the mercy of officials that are flawed. Bless them for putting up with some of the abuse they endure but a more stringent set of guidelines for making sure you get the best possible officials would be a welcome change when it comes to the postseason in high school sports.
I think we’re on the same page Baseball215. Main thing I’m getting at is that at higher level and end of season events, there’s a certain expectation that top tier officials will run the games. That clearly isn’t happening. Granted, there will be debatable calls at any venue. But there should not be questionable calls from beginning to end, both in the field and behind the plate, and those calls end up tilting the game. It’s unfair to the both teams. The games and the winner should be dictated by the players. Yes, CB left opportunities on the table which is definitely not what you want to see, but those questionable calls did not help their cause at all. And I’d think no one wants to see a game won or lost because of bad officiating. Unfortunately, that’s what happened yesterday. I really don’t think anyone being honest would debate that it was poor officiating.
Concur RedPride. That’s the main point I’m getting at also. The game is being taken away from the players and the winners (not saying all cases) are being decided by calls being made. There has to be some kind of way to evaluate an officials ‘quality/knowledge’, especially at these higher level events. Just like any other person with a cert or license, just because they have it doesn’t make them good at their job. I’m sure coaches would gladly point out the best officials they’ve seen during the season before it comes time to appoint post season officials. It definitely couldn’t hurt anything to have a consensus of opinions. Like someone said, I’d rather see a dominant team just blow the opposition away then see a loss by calls. As an athlete, if I was going to get beat, prove to me you’re better that day. I don’t think the officials let the teams prove that yesterday. They decided for them.
First of all my apologies for my one out/two out mistake. I stand corrected. As you regular readers know, I do all of this from memory and usually several hours after the fact. Not only that but I turned 39 (????) recently so factor in a little bit of old age and you get the picture.
So while we are on the subject of human beings that make mistakes (see how I cleverly worked in that connection?) our umpires and for that matter our officials at every level of every sport are only human and even the finest in modern technology cannot seem to make for perfect officiating.
For example, in a JMU women's softball game a few weeks ago, one of their runners was CLEARLY safe at first and the announcers did not mince words saying so. They played the replay over and over again and they stuck to their guns that she simply HAD to be safe. Yet the officials stood by their call that she was out and JMU got hosed.
Think back to UVa's basketball run this season and all the crazy calls that impacted that. And yes you could even argue that if they won the national title, then "all" of those controversial calls had to go their way or else someone else would have been printing national champion T shirts instead of Mincer's.
So the bottom line in sports in general is that you can't win them all all the time and these things have a way of balancing themselves out. For example, someone pointed out a call that went against Riverheads in the 2011 state championship game against Page.
I just refuse to believe that any official goes into a game with the mindset that they are going to call a bad game or favor one team over the other. They just do the best they can with the split second, naked eye decisions they are forced to make.
As for the specific calls that Sportzone highlighted in his most recent post, I can only halfway comment on the one about the strikeout followed by the throw down to first. As I recall, and remember I am the one with the less-than-perfect memory, the bases were loaded at the time. So doesn't the rulebook say that in that situation, the batter is automatically out because there was no place for him to go? I think we had already seen that rule applied once before in yesterday's game.
As for the two calls at third where the umpire slightly delayed his call and then pointed dramatically down at the bag before making his call, don't ask me..........I was CLEAR across the diamond from that one.
But it is water under the bridge now so next I would be interested in someone from SW VA coming on here and telling us the details of how Auburn sneaked past Chilhowie and what we can expect from the Eagles.
So while we are on the subject of human beings that make mistakes (see how I cleverly worked in that connection?) our umpires and for that matter our officials at every level of every sport are only human and even the finest in modern technology cannot seem to make for perfect officiating.
For example, in a JMU women's softball game a few weeks ago, one of their runners was CLEARLY safe at first and the announcers did not mince words saying so. They played the replay over and over again and they stuck to their guns that she simply HAD to be safe. Yet the officials stood by their call that she was out and JMU got hosed.
Think back to UVa's basketball run this season and all the crazy calls that impacted that. And yes you could even argue that if they won the national title, then "all" of those controversial calls had to go their way or else someone else would have been printing national champion T shirts instead of Mincer's.
So the bottom line in sports in general is that you can't win them all all the time and these things have a way of balancing themselves out. For example, someone pointed out a call that went against Riverheads in the 2011 state championship game against Page.
I just refuse to believe that any official goes into a game with the mindset that they are going to call a bad game or favor one team over the other. They just do the best they can with the split second, naked eye decisions they are forced to make.
As for the specific calls that Sportzone highlighted in his most recent post, I can only halfway comment on the one about the strikeout followed by the throw down to first. As I recall, and remember I am the one with the less-than-perfect memory, the bases were loaded at the time. So doesn't the rulebook say that in that situation, the batter is automatically out because there was no place for him to go? I think we had already seen that rule applied once before in yesterday's game.
As for the two calls at third where the umpire slightly delayed his call and then pointed dramatically down at the bag before making his call, don't ask me..........I was CLEAR across the diamond from that one.
But it is water under the bridge now so next I would be interested in someone from SW VA coming on here and telling us the details of how Auburn sneaked past Chilhowie and what we can expect from the Eagles.
@sportzone66, maybe I am reading more into this than you intend so I am going to ask it very plainly. Do you feel that CB was clearly the better team and had the game stolen from them? I for one did not see that nor would I say either team was far and away superior to the other. It was a typical HS baseball game with regular season average officials that made mistakes going both ways.
Just for arguments sake an alternative would be to change the format and have a best of 3 series at a neutral site closer to the "home" team once it gets to the state level. That could have the game officials rotate and take a plate bias out of play. Of course teams would have to have more than just one or two pitchers to survive that format but I am all for it. I am guessing the travel and such would really put a damper on that. Just a thought......
Just for arguments sake an alternative would be to change the format and have a best of 3 series at a neutral site closer to the "home" team once it gets to the state level. That could have the game officials rotate and take a plate bias out of play. Of course teams would have to have more than just one or two pitchers to survive that format but I am all for it. I am guessing the travel and such would really put a damper on that. Just a thought......
Longtimer, I agree with much of what you say. I’m not saying any official goes into a game with the intent of calling a bad game on purpose. Some just do it because they are less skilled and less knowledgeable than others. That’s why the more skilled/experienced officials should be calling these games. Maybe less mistakes. Or at least less occurrence of issues (hopefully). As with any industry, there are varying degrees of competency, even though they may be validated as ‘qualified’. Definitely doesn’t place them all on the same level of experience.
And on that throw to first scenario, the question was why didn’t an official make a call AT ALL when the play occurred? If the batters out, shouldn’t the home plate umpire announce it instead of standing there looking! The short point is that no official did anything but stand there. I don’t think the home umpire even knew if the ball was caught or it was a dropped 3rd strike. But like you said, water under the bridge. Just would have been nice to see who was really the best team without the officials deciding the outcome.
RedPride, I won’t say that CB was the better team, because Riverheads clearly is a solid squad (Not taking anything away from the team at all). I will say that I think it was ‘expected’ that Riverheads was going to dominate that game. I mean stand both teams in a line and have everyone guess who’s going to win...We already know what the answer will be.
I’m just saying with better officiating the outcome could have been very different. I can see one blown call, but things were bad from the start. And those types of calls (i.e. leading to runs each time) have/had a huge impact on the result. All in total, there were several runs that were tied to those calls. That pretty much defined the outcome. I’m just saying the officials decided the outcome. Not the players.
On a ball in the dirt 3rd strike umpire not suppose to say anything unless he fills it was caught that’s why I teach runners to run to first base inthat situation the problem came down to the runner turning and going back towards dugout automatic out if not for that he would have been safe at first as for longtimer you are right if less than two outs two outs you got get him out at first in that situation bases loaded he only had to step on a plate
Yep. I was only referring to the one CB was on defense. The other was definitely a base running mistake.
