It's so incredibly frustrating. At some point the electorate has to start pushing back.
OT: Prayers in Minneapolis
- Thread starter vatiger1
- Start date
It's so incredibly frustrating. At some point the electorate has to start pushing back.
You literally created a troll account based on another poster whose politics you don't like. Maybe show some self-awareness and sit this one out.
i have my moments of being an ***, but this doesnt seem like the time...i will say that the mayor's "gotcha" comment about not being the time for prayer is bothersome to me and an example of things that are counterproductive imo. Both sides are full of examples of it...just really bothersome
Agree it's a little bit snide, but It's hard not to understand his frustration. At what point do we do something instead of just offering the typical response?
Why would you regard his comments as counterproductive? The "thoughts and prayers" trope offered by politicians who do nothing to help people in a meaningful way is a well established theme in the wake of these types of events. It's about time we quit bullshitting when our children are being murdered in schools/churches.
We've got to stop with the both sides crap. The voting records are very clear on variety of issues that feed into this uniquely American phenomenon.
I don't know why I'm getting drawn into this conversation but I can only assume you are using an absurdly large definition here. Many of the mass shootings are carried about by white nationalists obsessed with great replacement theory are racism (Charleston, Tree of Life, El Paso, Buffalo). However many other shooters (Columbine, Sandy Hook, Uvalde, this one) are just your psychos
https://www.campusguardianangel.com/
saw this company is hoping to arm schools with swarming drones carrying pepper spray. Deploys in seconds.
saw this company is hoping to arm schools with swarming drones carrying pepper spray. Deploys in seconds.
From stuff I'm seeing or friends are seeing online, it appears the shooter may have been trans but they were definitely involved with/inspired by the Order of Nine Angels, which is Satanic/Neo-Nazi type group. The members post on 4Chan/8Chan to goad mentally unwell people to commit violence
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
Order of Nine Angles - Wikipedia
Timeline of crimes involving the Order of Nine Angles - Wikipedia
I also don't get the "stop making this a political issue" talking point.
this is just a dumb response. It isn't political to talk about how we stop the mass murdering of children. You actually made it political by name calling. So, way to go
Pure and disgusting evil. An evil person made a choice to use a weapon to go in and harm innocent children. Sickening...
I guess the answer is what are we really trying to solve because that will push the right solutions. A child is more far more likely to be the the victim of a mass shooting at a party with their friends and they "know" the shooter than in a school/movie theater/mall where the shooter is random. And actually most children who are victims of mass violence are more at risk in the home with their parent. Mass shootings in the workplace are most often targeted family violence with collateral damage (hate that term but can't think of another).
There should probably be coordination between police and mental health to identify red flags, but thats not allowed. There should be consequences for juveniles getting access to weapons, but how do we separate the legitimate uses. Most mass shootings are with handguns and shotguns than "assault weapons." We get hung up on the random, mass casualty, that really has no solution because the risk is infinitesimally small, but we could do much more targeted strategies to prevent the smaller/non-random violence that doesn't make the news but dominates the data, like the family annihilator.
You are 1000% correct. The biggest “immediate” mental health provision is giving everyone the opportunity to succeed in this life. Once that window narrows, mental health failures increase rapidly.With all due respect, what would you suggest intelligent and ethical people do to remedy this situation when the same side that claims this phenomenon is just about mental illness repeatedly votes down mental health initiatives? Sorry, but the both sides talk here doesn't pass the smell test.
These are innocent children being slaughtered. Let's call a spade a spade here and not mince words. The same people who think it's just a coincidence that America is the only industrialized nation with more guns than citizens also don't put their money where their mouth is when it comes to prioritizing mental health.
One of the common focuses is obviously mass shootings, but a tragically common ways kids die from guns is by the adults being careless with secure storage, which allows kids to play with guns. When I was a kid my father had a shotgun under my parents' bed. When he thought one of us had touched it without his permission he got super mad and threatened to have his law enforcement buddies run fingerprints to see which one of us kids it was
Conversation always leads to more understanding of both sides. Whether we change people’s minds or not.
and I’ll admit, my thoughts are probably pretty hyperbolic. I have two young children. Two children like many others across this country walk into a school that should be a safe haven and in reality it isn’t. Do I feel they are safe, yes, do I know that has the ability to change in an instant if someone wanted it to, yes. So it hits home incredibly hard when we continue to see elementary age children murdered in a place that should be of peace and safety. I would even contend that a school should be those two things before education.
I think individually the majority of 95% or higher of the people in this country truly care about children. I believe you do even if we don’t agree on certain topics. People on a singular level truly care about them. But it’s why I said country because our country as a whole from a group and collective standpoint has continued to show by the policies enacted or the ones they choose not to enact that they don’t care about kids. I definitely do not believe our leaders on both sides of the aisle care about them, except their own.
I went to a school like this, I have friends who send their kids to schools like this, and I even taught at a school like this. Just horrifying
This report says that the shooters mom works/worked at the church school.From stuff I'm seeing or friends are seeing online, it appears the shooter may have been trans but they were definitely involved with/inspired by the Order of Nine Angels, which is Satanic/Neo-Nazi type group. The members post on 4Chan/8Chan to goad mentally unwell people to commit violence
Order of Nine Angles - Wikipedia
Timeline of crimes involving the Order of Nine Angles - Wikipedia
Minneapolis Catholic school shooter: What we know
The person who opened fire on a Catholic school Wednesday in Minneapolis has been identified.
www.kare11.com
Even if you remove gang violence, domestic crimes, etc. our rate of mass shootings in schools and other public places still far exceeds any other developed country in the world. There’s only one true common denominator here.No. And the data used is so politicized that it doesn't reflect what is happening in these extremely rare types of shootings so we really can't understand them.
There are basically 2 definitions of mass shootings. FBI uses 3 or more killed. CDC uses 4 or more injured in a single incident. Most mass shootings have a root cause of 1 of 2 categories....family violence and/or gang violence (gang being defined as a common group, not necessarily Crips vs Bloods, so mostly teenage and young adult males). A father killing his wife and 2 kids, or a 21 year old randomly firing into a group after being disrespected in front of his girl at a bar and injuring 4 is lumped into the same category as Vegas, Orlando, Uvalde and Dylan Roof. The vast majority of mass shootings aren't random acts of violence.
This is a pretty good running summary, although they use a slightly modified definition that includes "violence" not just shooting, but its valid none the less.
Mass killing database: Revealing trends, details and anguish of every US event since 2006
How many mass killings are there in the US? High profile public shootings are only a portion of the nation's mass killings since 2006, analysis shows.www.usatoday.com
It’s the guns and the ease of access to them. And I say this as someone who owns multiple firearms and has no intention of giving them up.
Not surprised. I feel like a lot of the schizoid/incoherent shooters are going to target some place they are familiar with. Similar to Columbine, Virginia Tech, Oxford Michigan, and UvaldeThis report says that the shooters mom works/worked at the church school.
Minneapolis Catholic school shooter: What we know
The person who opened fire on a Catholic school Wednesday in Minneapolis has been identified.
Universal background checks, safe storage laws, red flag laws, mental health screenings, that sort of thing.
I don't own a firearm. I never will. But I have no problem with responsible gun owners, especially hunters
That is often how compromise is done though. Both sides can get things through in a bill that they care about. Otherwise the majority would get its way on every single individual issue.
Omnibus type bills used to be pretty rare back in the day. I guess they still technically are because apparently the bills may not meet the example but they're closer to it than not. Most infamous one is the Compromise of 1850. I don't like the practice
There's a fine line to walk here, but in certain circumstances I can see charging parents with at least a level of criminal negligence if not outright murder. The father was rightly charged in the Apalachee shooting. That boy was documented crazy and the family still kept giving him access to weapons. But that is only a small portion of the mass shootings in the country.
A parent that knows their child has a criminal history and knows their child has a handgun in the home should be subject to prosecution, but should a parent be charged if their well adjusted child with no history steals their responsibly stored handgun, takes it to a gathering of teenagers and injures 4? I don't like the slippery slope argument, but that does seem like something that could be quickly abused by overly aggressive prosecutors or charged for "political" reasons.
We have laws against murder that don’t always stop murder.
We have laws against rape that don’t always stop rape.
We have laws against stealing from Medicare/Medicaid that don’t stop stealing from Medicare/Medicaid.
We have laws against insider trading by public officials that don’t stop insider trading by public officials.
So, enough with the ridiculous notion that any gun law must “always” stop the wrong evil heart from getting a gun.
If it saves one life …
edit to add i’m not coming head-on at @Willence the person here so much as the broadly espoused thought
also to add:
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Can you tell us the impact the Federal Assault Weapons Ban had on the number of public mass shootings and what happened to those numbers after the ban was lifted?
Can you tell me whether gun violence incidents are higher or lower in states that have stricter gun laws than states that don't?
It is my understanding the research regarding the impact of stricter gun laws on gun violence demonstrably shows such violence is lower where there are stricter gun laws. you infer there is no such evidence.
Can you tell me what actual policy solutions/bills the Republicans have put up recently to address this epidemic of gun violence?
Yeah, there are certainly limits so I get it. But just bills or singular issues aren't that common unless they truly are bipartisan.
You're self selecting the criteria to get the result. The data only shows that if you use "mass shooting." If you compare "mass violence" the US is very much in line with the rest of the developed world.
If I tell you that you're going to have to walk into a movie theater with someone with an AR-15 or someone with a machete, I'm pretty sure you'll take your chances with the machete. Come on, man.
Surprise surprise...the shooter has been identified by name, I won't use it because phuck him, and of course it's a crazy liberal, trans idealogue...but it's "the other sides fault" because we aren't retarded??? LOL
Look, if the liberals wanted to sell everyone the solution of "banning guns" to solve their self-made problem of school/mass shootings, they shouldn't have played that card with covid to get Trump out of office in 2020.
But it's too late for that now. You don't get to create the problem, and then force everyone to adopt your solution. At least not for a long while.
Look, if the liberals wanted to sell everyone the solution of "banning guns" to solve their self-made problem of school/mass shootings, they shouldn't have played that card with covid to get Trump out of office in 2020.
But it's too late for that now. You don't get to create the problem, and then force everyone to adopt your solution. At least not for a long while.
Which definition are you using for mass shooting? The FBI's or Congressional Research Service's? Perhaps you are using liberal academics who have their own definition for mass shooting? Maybe you like Gun Violence Archive's explanation?Ok we'll start with mass shootings. This data is from January 2024, so it's a bit dated.
The U.S. makes up 33% of the population of the countries included in a the Rockefeller Institute of Government's study. Yet we account for 76% of public mass shooting incidents and 70% of victim fatalities in those countries.
Why does this only happen in America? What about Canada? They have access to the same media, video games, movies and TV ... same is the case for most of western Europe. And yet ... this is a one-nation problem.
And before it becomes "they'll use something else," the study also examined that.
Lets look at Chicago, a place known for gangs, shootings and killings:
Based on the 24 mass shooting incidents noted in 2023 and the other documented events, we can reasonably estimate that Chicago has experienced at least 100–120 mass shooting incidents (as defined by GVA) over the past five years.
That said, this is a conservative estimate, and the true number could be higher.
(According to Chat GPT)
There isn't an agreed upon of what a "Mass Shooting" is.
These people act like we don't have actual data that the average 3 year old could decipher. It's really frustrating when citizens abdicate their basic duty. It's not hard to find hard data that backs up what most sentient beings would consider common sense.
I can't comprehend why anyone would be against having a to obtain a permit in order to buy a gun. Not saying it solves everything, but why not enforcing taking a class an exam similar to getting your DL. Must have a "permit" to purchase a gun.
Again, not saying it solves much, but why would anyone be against that?
Again, not saying it solves much, but why would anyone be against that?
Especially in a country of 330M people from very diverse backgrounds and who live in a country that values personal freedom above most other values.
Like harden the targets? Make schools as safe as banks and jewelry stores?
It is absolutely time to make a change! It’s time that we take mental health afflictions serious instead of applauding them. I know someone that is scared of their own minor son and can’t find anywhere in the country that they can commit him to. They have spent a lot of money on lawyers and drs begging for help bc they know what he is capable of to no avail. Other countries don’t worry about feelings when it comes to mental health, they put the unwell away and attempt to help them like we used to do. Instead, now we think it’s an honorable thing to want to be a different sex, or want to svit in a litter box until their mental health issues boil over into being violent and wanting to hurt the non afflicted. You’re damn right it’s time for change it just doesn’t have anything to do with guns.