Basketball Great postseason basketball idea

[LooseCannon]

Great idea here. Would really emphasize getting the best teams to Lincoln, eliminates the element of losing and playing on. Plus avoiding loaded subs. Thoughts? Change isn’t a bad thing when the process can be improved.

https://nebpreps.com/full-court-press-nebraskas-hoops-postseason-is-good-lets-make-it-better/

 

[Llama57]

Great idea here. Would really emphasize getting the best teams to Lincoln, eliminates the element of losing and playing on. Plus avoiding loaded subs. Thoughts? Change isn’t a bad thing when the process can be improved.

https://nebpreps.com/full-court-press-nebraskas-hoops-postseason-is-good-lets-make-it-better/

No. It guarantees teams from a certain "region" make it to state. I like some of the ideas, but we got away from equal representation because of what part of the state you play in for a good reason.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

No. It guarantees teams from a certain "region" make it to state. I like some of the ideas, but we got away from equal representation because of what part of the state you play in for a good reason.

The C and D idea is horrible, and does not come even close to getting the best teams to Lincoln Terrible idea

 

[saluno22]

I like the current format. Everyone have a merit-based chance of advancing, and if you've had enough success in the regular season, you get into the district final round even if you are in a loaded subdistrict. The current format also limits travel distances for the worst teams. The better teams who win and advance are the ones who will be traveling farther.

However, one thing I would like to see change is the detrimental effect postseason games have on wild card points. Not all subdistricts are the same size. For example, in Class B, there are some which are 3 teams, others which are 4 teams. In the subdistricts with 4 teams, the #1 seed has no choice but to play a likely very bad (or at least below .500) team. Oftentimes this is a drag on their wild card average just by stepping on the floor. Similarly, if you have a 3-team subdistrict with two teams neck-and-neck for the top seed, the team which is slightly lower in the wild card standings has to play an extra game against a team which will drag down their average even in the event of a win.

I think in the subdistrict and district final rounds, if a team wins and the wild card points assigned are detrimental to the winning team's average, that game should simply be omitted when compiling the average for seeding purposes as the winning team has no choice in whom their opponent is. This would have impacts for district final and state tournament seeding.

 

[FalconAlum07]

I don't hate this idea for Class C, I am most directly related to Hitchcock County a C2 school in Southwest NE. We have a decent team with a competitive record 14-5 (3 losses at the buzzer to teams with a 45-19 combined record) and sit 23rd in power points but will be 4th in our sub. We are geographically disadvantaged in C2 because we have no chance to play any team that would get us bonus points C1 or above, heck we can barely find C2 schools to play. McCook is Class B but has no incentive to play us, and the next closest C1 schools are an hour and 40 minutes away. We try to find games but it takes both schools to want to get that done and with our girls in D2 most teams want games that benefit both boys and girls so we usually come up empty when contacting bigger schools.

I know we could just win all of our games and maybe power points would take care of themselves but we have no safety net of bigger schools that can choose to play up (we would if we could get the games, even if we had to travel). Dundy County is the same way 16-4 record, very good team but lower in points due to geographic isolation.

This system is way better than the old way but it's not without its flaws either. I fully understand that year in and year out the best teams come from East of GI, but they are also in the best geographical area to keep the gap widened from rural schools with scheduling issues.

In no way am i saying woe is us and we need a fair shake, if we're good enough to win our way there we will but I just wanted to share some issues out here that maybe teams further East aren't aware of.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

I don't hate this idea for Class C, I am most directly related to Hitchcock County a C2 school in Southwest NE. We have a decent team with a competitive record 14-5 (3 losses at the buzzer to teams with a 45-19 combined record) and sit 23rd in power points but will be 4th in our sub. We are geographically disadvantaged in C2 because we have no chance to play any team that would get us bonus points C1 or above, heck we can barely find C2 schools to play. McCook is Class B but has no incentive to play us, and the next closest C1 schools are an hour and 40 minutes away. We try to find games but it takes both schools to want to get that done and with our girls in D2 most teams want games that benefit both boys and girls so we usually come up empty when contacting bigger schools.

I know we could just win all of our games and maybe power points would take care of themselves but we have no safety net of bigger schools that can choose to play up (we would if we could get the games, even if we had to travel). Dundy County is the same way 16-4 record, very good team but lower in points due to geographic isolation.

This system is way better than the old way but it's not without its flaws either. I fully understand that year in and year out the best teams come from East of GI, but they are also in the best geographical area to keep the gap widened from rural schools with scheduling issues.

In no way am i saying woe is us and we need a fair shake, if we're good enough to win our way there we will but I just wanted to share some issues out here that maybe teams further East aren't aware of.

But if you make it so teams come from an area instead the way it is now, then you have an unfair advantage to get to state because of your low density in area population, you are ok if the advantage is for you but not for a fair system ?

 

[LooseCannon]

I don't hate this idea for Class C, I am most directly related to Hitchcock County a C2 school in Southwest NE. We have a decent team with a competitive record 14-5 (3 losses at the buzzer to teams with a 45-19 combined record) and sit 23rd in power points but will be 4th in our sub. We are geographically disadvantaged in C2 because we have no chance to play any team that would get us bonus points C1 or above, heck we can barely find C2 schools to play. McCook is Class B but has no incentive to play us, and the next closest C1 schools are an hour and 40 minutes away. We try to find games but it takes both schools to want to get that done and with our girls in D2 most teams want games that benefit both boys and girls so we usually come up empty when contacting bigger schools.

I know we could just win all of our games and maybe power points would take care of themselves but we have no safety net of bigger schools that can choose to play up (we would if we could get the games, even if we had to travel). Dundy County is the same way 16-4 record, very good team but lower in points due to geographic isolation.

This system is way better than the old way but it's not without its flaws either. I fully understand that year in and year out the best teams come from East of GI, but they are also in the best geographical area to keep the gap widened from rural schools with scheduling issues.

In no way am i saying woe is us and we need a fair shake, if we're good enough to win our way there we will but I just wanted to share some issues out here that maybe teams further East aren't aware of.

Good post.

 

[LooseCannon]

My biggest issue now is if you lose you can still advance in the post season due to wildcards. I like the regions, but maybe after the round of 32 games, you reseed everybody 1 through 16 and play a neutral site to go to state. Get rid of the regions after the round of 32.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

My biggest issue now is if you lose you can still advance in the post season due to wildcards. I like the regions, but maybe after the round of 32 games, you reseed everybody 1 through 16 and play a neutral site to go to state. Get rid of the regions after the round of 32.

If you lose it could be because the two best teams in the state in the same sub district Your point makes no sense but yet your point would reward a team that plays in a sub or district final and never plays a team with a winning record and that team may not have one either but you think they should go to state

 

[FalconAlum07]

But if you make it so teams come from an area instead the way it is now, then you have an unfair advantage to get to state because of your low density in area population, you are ok if the advantage is for you but not for a fair system ?

I've been around these boards long enough to know you like to argue for the sake of arguing. I clearly said this current system is better than the straight geographic old system.

Also stated in the last paragraph that I was not looking for sympathy, the best teams win their way there.

Perhaps the flaw lies within bonus points for playing up classes. Look at the top 6 seeds for each class, I would venture to guess that those teams play classes above theirs at a disproportionally high rate compared to the teams from 7-16. Is there not the same advantage the the geography districts once created for western based schools?

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

I've been around these boards long enough to know you like to argue for the sake of arguing. I clearly said this current system is better than the straight geographic old system.

Also stated in the last paragraph that I was not looking for sympathy, the best teams win their way there.

Perhaps the flaw lies within bonus points for playing up classes. Look at the top 6 seeds for each class, I would venture to guess that those teams play classes above theirs at a disproportionally high rate compared to the teams from 7-16. Is there not the same advantage the the geography districts once created for western based schools?

I will agree with you on that, but the same advantage may come from a team with a higher record and wins all their games but yet plays 80% of their games against teams in a lower class but you have a point on wildcard bonus points Never been a fan of them but I see why we have them, some of these smaller schools would never play up a class if it wasn't for that

 

[FalconAlum07]

I will agree with you on that, but the same advantage may come from a team with a higher record and wins all their games but yet plays 80% of their games against teams in a lower class but you have a point on wildcard bonus points Never been a fan of them but I see why we have them, some of these smaller schools would never play up a class if it wasn't for that

I think there needs to be some adjustment, with the new classifications using gender specific enrollment there is fluctuation that takes place and what was once a good schedule playing up turns into a bad schedule if you jump up into that class.

I don't think teams around here are trying to play down a class to get easier games just to get wins. I know for a fact we would play Ogallala, Cozad, Gothenburg, Holdrege, McCook. There is no way they will ever schedule us, they don't need our games as they can find multiple of them within a much shorter drive. Also our situation is kind of unique, our girls being D2 absolutely kills us, on top of that they won 2 games so not only D2 but a Div 4. No one is signing up to play to get 41 pts for a win. Schools around here do not typically schedule boys only or girls only games.

Since I never see eastern teams maybe you could tell me, is there a huge difference between a Div 3 C1 team and a Div 2 C2 school. I mean a C2 team could beat a 7-18 team in C1 and get 46 pts, and beat our team at 14-5 and get 47pts. There's no guarantee that the C1 school has 7 wins against C1 teams either, they could beat 7 teams from classes below them. Is that an equivalent win to beating our team?

I just am not a fan of the bonus points.

 

[Llama57]

I don't hate this idea for Class C, I am most directly related to Hitchcock County a C2 school in Southwest NE. We have a decent team with a competitive record 14-5 (3 losses at the buzzer to teams with a 45-19 combined record) and sit 23rd in power points but will be 4th in our sub. We are geographically disadvantaged in C2 because we have no chance to play any team that would get us bonus points C1 or above, heck we can barely find C2 schools to play. McCook is Class B but has no incentive to play us, and the next closest C1 schools are an hour and 40 minutes away. We try to find games but it takes both schools to want to get that done and with our girls in D2 most teams want games that benefit both boys and girls so we usually come up empty when contacting bigger schools.

I know we could just win all of our games and maybe power points would take care of themselves but we have no safety net of bigger schools that can choose to play up (we would if we could get the games, even if we had to travel). Dundy County is the same way 16-4 record, very good team but lower in points due to geographic isolation.

This system is way better than the old way but it's not without its flaws either. I fully understand that year in and year out the best teams come from East of GI, but they are also in the best geographical area to keep the gap widened from rural schools with scheduling issues.

In no way am i saying woe is us and we need a fair shake, if we're good enough to win our way there we will but I just wanted to share some issues out here that maybe teams further East aren't aware of.

I understand some of your games are a "must" because of what conference you are in. But Chase Co, Southern Valley, Cozad, Hershey, and Gothenburg aren't that far away. My team is in the NE part of the state, and we travel just as far for some C1 games. Yes, we have many that are much closer, but looks like the AD needs to step it up.
Also, getting in a different holiday tourney would help as well.

 

[FalconAlum07]

I understand some of your games are a "must" because of what conference you are in. But Chase Co, Southern Valley, Cozad, Hershey, and Gothenburg aren't that far away. My team is in the NE part of the state, and we travel just as far for some C1 games. Yes, we have many that are much closer, but looks like the AD needs to step it up.
Also, getting in a different holiday tourney would help as well.

I agree, but those schools also want to schedule us, not as simple as we are playing you this year deal with it. The holiday tournament I 100% agree, Pleasanton dropped out this year, that hurt the overall quality. In my original post I said travel is not the issue, we will travel, but we can't play 15 road games a year those teams will have to come to us some years and there's just no incentive for them to do so when they can pick up the same game with half the travel.

The AD tries somewhat but how can you schedule teams that are C1 to help boys be competitive that will also agree to play a D2 girls school. If you have any good ideas there I will pass them along as I've said we have actively tried to get these games. Southern Valley is D1, Hershey and Chase County are C2 as they are both in our Sub, so they don't really help when it comes to the bonus points that I have been discussing.

 

[Llama57]

I agree, but those schools also want to schedule us, not as simple as we are playing you this year deal with it. The holiday tournament I 100% agree, Pleasanton dropped out this year, that hurt the overall quality. In my original post I said travel is not the issue, we will travel, but we can't play 15 road games a year those teams will have to come to us some years and there's just no incentive for them to do so when they can pick up the same game with half the travel.

The AD tries somewhat but how can you schedule teams that are C1 to help boys be competitive that will also agree to play a D2 girls school. If you have any good ideas there I will pass them along as I've said we have actively tried to get these games. Southern Valley is D1, Hershey and Chase County are C2 as they are both in our Sub, so they don't really help when it comes to the bonus points that I have been discussing.

Good points. In a few years will your boys & girls both be D1? The disparity in the 2 teams classifications would cause schools to hesitate in scheduling. I've seen 1 class difference, but man, are you the only school in the state with a 2 classification difference?

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

I think there needs to be some adjustment, with the new classifications using gender specific enrollment there is fluctuation that takes place and what was once a good schedule playing up turns into a bad schedule if you jump up into that class.

I don't think teams around here are trying to play down a class to get easier games just to get wins. I know for a fact we would play Ogallala, Cozad, Gothenburg, Holdrege, McCook. There is no way they will ever schedule us, they don't need our games as they can find multiple of them within a much shorter drive. Also our situation is kind of unique, our girls being D2 absolutely kills us, on top of that they won 2 games so not only D2 but a Div 4. No one is signing up to play to get 41 pts for a win. Schools around here do not typically schedule boys only or girls only games.

Since I never see eastern teams maybe you could tell me, is there a huge difference between a Div 3 C1 team and a Div 2 C2 school. I mean a C2 team could beat a 7-18 team in C1 and get 46 pts, and beat our team at 14-5 and get 47pts. There's no guarantee that the C1 school has 7 wins against C1 teams either, they could beat 7 teams from classes below them. Is that an equivalent win to beating our team?

I just am not a fan of the bonus points.

You can definitely use the bonus point system to your advantage by playing up a class against some bad teams, I understand limited scheduling in the west, and you make a good argument for not having bonus points

 

[GrizzzlyPanda]

Good points. In a few years will your boys & girls both be D1? The disparity in the 2 teams classifications would cause schools to hesitate in scheduling. I've seen 1 class difference, but man, are you the only school in the state with a 2 classification difference?

I know this year Overton Girls are C2 and their boys are D2.

 

[FalconAlum07]

Good points. In a few years will your boys & girls both be D1? The disparity in the 2 teams classifications would cause schools to hesitate in scheduling. I've seen 1 class difference, but man, are you the only school in the state with a 2 classification difference?

Boys projection C2 for probably 5 years at least. Who knows if some boys leave or what not. Girls D2 for at least the next 5.

our girls are an interesting story. District final with 16 out 2 years ago to 6 players this season. Probably have 6 decent players that refused to go out this year. On top of low numbers already it’s a bad situation.

 

[speedy66]

Boys projection C2 for probably 5 years at least. Who knows if some boys leave or what not. Girls D2 for at least the next 5.

our girls are an interesting story. District final with 16 out 2 years ago to 6 players this season. Probably have 6 decent players that refused to go out this year. On top of low numbers already it’s a bad situation.

To me, this is the downside of having gender only classifications in Class D. Hitchcock has 41 boys and 24 girls for classification. In the old format they would be at 65 which I think would have been a solid D1 probably year in, year out. (The cutoff was usually around 70 I think). Class D1 boys goes from 41 to 28. That’s a pretty small window.

 

[highschoolfootballnut]

To me, this is the downside of having gender only classifications in Class D. Hitchcock has 41 boys and 24 girls for classification. In the old format they would be at 65 which I think would have been a solid D1 probably year in, year out. (The cutoff was usually around 70 I think). Class D1 boys goes from 41 to 28. That’s a pretty small window.

You are allways going to have a few but for most of the schools it works great

 

[Kard4life]

I agree, but those schools also want to schedule us, not as simple as we are playing you this year deal with it. The holiday tournament I 100% agree, Pleasanton dropped out this year, that hurt the overall quality. In my original post I said travel is not the issue, we will travel, but we can't play 15 road games a year those teams will have to come to us some years and there's just no incentive for them to do so when they can pick up the same game with half the travel.

The AD tries somewhat but how can you schedule teams that are C1 to help boys be competitive that will also agree to play a D2 girls school. If you have any good ideas there I will pass them along as I've said we have actively tried to get these games. Southern Valley is D1, Hershey and Chase County are C2 as they are both in our Sub, so they don't really help when it comes to the bonus points that I have been discussing.

You make several good points that support your narrative. However, you're losing credibility when you say a 9-13 Pleasanton team drops out and hurts the overall quality of a holiday tournament. I understand they were better in years past, but you're talking about this year. I happen to like the current system, that is just my opinion. These next comments are to play devil's advocate. Take it from a guy who has spent far too much time trying to find a system to fit his narrative, i'll quote Al Davis, "Just Win, Baby!"

To me you're not a victim of other teams playing up classes. You might be the victim of a bad schedule, mostly geographically land locked. Not your fault, but it is the way it is. Rather than looking at how many people get +2 bonus points you should look at how many Div. 4 opponents you played-6. You were 3-6 against teams with a winning record. No one on your schedule went to state(I did not research if the Kansas team did or not), and only 5 teams you played went to a district final. One could argue that your win total is inflated due to a weaker schedule.

I've never seen your team play and don't want to take away from the great season they had, but I support the current system and thought I could provide some insight from a different view.

To further support the current system, just look at the brackets, C-1, C-2, D-1 and D-2 are all loaded! There are good teams not at state, but it is hard to argue that there is someone there that shouldn't be. Now, in class A and B, there are some outliers I guess we could say.

 

[saluno22]

To further support the current system, just look at the brackets, C-1, C-2, D-1 and D-2 are all loaded! There are good teams not at state, but it is hard to argue that there is someone there that shouldn't be. Now, in class A and B, there are some outliers I guess we could say.

Agree with your entire post. Also keep in mind, Classes A and B have a lot fewer teams than Classes C-1 through D-2, and when you play roughly within your class, it means more losses in a smaller pool. Obviously a lot of Class B teams and some Class A teams play outside and generally downward in school size, but the ratio of state participants to class size is much different than for C-1 and smaller.

 

[Cornheadnation]

Not much of a poster but here goes nothin:
I like the current system, admittedly being from the west, I did not like it at first because I felt like it was pushing western representatives away from the state tournament. Seeing the new system put into place I can say that I am now a fan. The wildcards are still in play and it rewards teams for having a good regular season, but does not reward them by automatically inserting them into THE tournament. You still have to win to go to state. To @Kard4life point, you cannot argue with the quality of teams that are at state this year. It almost appears as any 8 seed could knock down a 1 seed and it would not come as a huge surprise. Additionally, I don't know if its a coincidence or not, but it seems there has been a rise to the quality of teams out west since the new system has been implemented, and I feel like that part of the state has been pretty well represented. There really never is and never will be a truly perfect system. There will always be a team out there that might be in a really tough district, and then got a really tough draw in the District finals. But I feel as though this system is as close as we can get to being "fair" and allows us to get the best 8 teams in the state tournament, which in my opinion should be the #1 goal.