OT: Another public shooting

[TheDude1]

Yeah, a gun free country is a utopia isn't it? Or is it? Those pesky old knives, baseball bats, scissors, hatpins, toothpicks, crowbars, etc. just seem to get in the way.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/london...york-city-first-time-surging-knife-gun-crime/

OFC

Again, a strawman.

Nobody is saying we should get rid of all gun, or could get rid of all guns.

Also, nobody would ever be foolish enough to believe that hatpins are as dangerous as a gun.

And I have no idea what your link on the simultaneous huge drop in crime in New York City compared to a huge spike in crime in London has to do with anything.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Your equallying McVeigh to second amendment supporters?

I am equating the notion that anti gun people don't deserve freedom to the views of Timothy McVeigh. His whole beef with the government was driven by his paranoia that they were plotting to take away people's guns and abolishing the second amendment. He staged a war against the so called anti gun establishment.

 

[tw3301]

Actually, they stay roughly the same.

There are obviously many factors, but check out the states with the highest murder-by-firearms rates. Mostly red states with lax gun laws.




Hey UK, you'd do better if you didnt turn everything into an attack.

Understand there are other people out there, including gun owners and enthusiasts, who will disagree with you about how to handle gun violence in this country, and what appropriate and effective gun legislation looks like.

Also understand that you should provide links and/or research if you want to have a discussion about something.

If you are just interested in attacking people... well, that I can't help with.







Letsgo, you and I have fought more than anyone else here, but I appreciate you calling out that wacko stance.

And yes, Pisgah, that is about as extreme a stance as someone can take. Someone believes there needs to be changes to gun laws, and they are an idiot who doesn't deserve freedom? Jeez... those Sandy Hook parents... what idiots who deserve to not be free!

That's nuts, and the sort of stance that obviously gets in the way of adult discussion.



Nobody... and I mean nobody... thinks that you will ever end all gun violence. That's a strawman.

Nobody said murder is going to stop. It is human nature. Another strawman.

But yes, many people believe that lessening the ability of some people to get guns in certain ways will result in fewer gun deaths.

Common sense dictates that to be true. If you made driving tests much harder, and you had to meet certain criteria to buy a car, there would be fewer driving deaths each year. Guns are tools as well, and if you take some out of circulation, there will be fewer deaths. You can argue that it isn't worth it (the legislation that would exists VS the lives saved) but to argue it would have no impact is just illogical.

And no, it is not a slippery slope to banning forks. That's another strawman. The gun is a tool designed for killing, the most deadly tool man has ever created. It is not the same as the automobile or the knife or the fork.

Anyone with half a brain would take a guy charging them with a knife over a guy wanting to kill them with a gun



I am always amazed by how extreme some people are about guns. And I say this as a guy who owns a lot of them, enjoys shooting them... hell, I've got two within reach of me as I type this. But it seems the most aggressive rhetoric in this thread is coming from one side. That's a shame.

Sounds to me like the people that live in LAX gun law states shoot straighter.

 

[Dad2ze]

Just bought this yesterday.

 

[TheDude1]

Sounds to me like the people that live in LAX gun law states shoot straighter.

That's one interpretation

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

Again, a strawman.

Nobody is saying we should get rid of all gun, or could get rid of all guns.
BS, that is what all gun control is about...drip, drip, drip...more and more control until there is none.

Also, nobody would ever be foolish enough to believe that hatpins are as dangerous as a gun.
Didn't say they were as dangerous, but anything can be used to kill or maim. Car wrecks kill more than gun homicides

And I have no idea what your link on the simultaneous huge drop in crime in New York City compared to a huge spike in crime in London has to do with anything.[/QUOT
If you can't see what that has to do with banning guns, then I can't help you.

OFC

 

[TheDude1]

Just bought this yesterday.

How on earth do you even take a picture with that?

You got robbed.

 

[Tlass]

I want to add my .5 cent. My family and I have been victims of gun violence, from a sick person who had access to a weapon. I'll make this story as short as possible. In March 2005 my twin brother and sister were murdered by our first cousin (while they slept) all 3 were at the time were sharing an apartment and in college. . My cousin who is/was a very bright student never in trouble with the law, was later diagnosed with schizophrenia. He was forced by the state to get treatment, so that he could stand trial. Once treated he was extremely remorseful and was a totally different person than the young man arrested that night. He was found guilty of 2nd degree murder Due to his illness and is serving a 26 yr sentence. I respectfully disagree to the comment made by a poster (calling anyone who wants some form of gun control, are idiots and doesn’t deserve freedom (im paraphrasing). I say to you sir, there is a problem with the system we have in place now. I stated in a different post that I don’t have the answers, but I want to add that I also don’t turn a blind eye to a problem with the way the laws and ignore the fact that it needs to be addressed. IF that strips me from my freedom or makes me an idiot I can live with that. SO that some other family or friend don’t lose a loved one so senselessly.

 

[Laettner]

Shame this continues to carry on.

 

[ticket2ride04]

I want to add my .5 cent. My family and I have been victims of gun violence, from a sick person who had access to a weapon. I'll make this story as short as possible. In March 2005 my twin brother and sister were murdered by our first cousin (while they slept) all 3 were at the time were sharing an apartment and in college. . My cousin who is/was a very bright student never in trouble with the law, was later diagnosed with schizophrenia. He was forced by the state to get treatment, so that he could stand trial. Once treated he was extremely remorseful and was a totally different person than the young man arrested that night. He was found guilty of 2nd degree murder Due to his illness and is serving a 26 yr sentence. I respectfully disagree to the comment made by a poster (calling anyone who wants some form of gun control, are idiots and doesn’t deserve freedom (im paraphrasing). I say to you sir, there is a problem with the system we have in place now. I stated in a different post that I don’t have the answers, but I want to add that I also don’t turn a blind eye to a problem with the way the laws and ignore the fact that it needs addressed. IF that strips me from my freedom or makes me an idiot I can live with that. SO that some other family or friend don’t lose a loved one so senselessly.

Sorry to hear this. Truly I am.

 

[jchammock]

Actually, they stay roughly the same.

There are obviously many factors, but check out the states with the highest murder-by-firearms rates. Mostly red states with lax gun laws.




Hey UK, you'd do better if you didnt turn everything into an attack.

Understand there are other people out there, including gun owners and enthusiasts, who will disagree with you about how to handle gun violence in this country, and what appropriate and effective gun legislation looks like.

Also understand that you should provide links and/or research if you want to have a discussion about something.

If you are just interested in attacking people... well, that I can't help with.







Letsgo, you and I have fought more than anyone else here, but I appreciate you calling out that wacko stance.

And yes, Pisgah, that is about as extreme a stance as someone can take. Someone believes there needs to be changes to gun laws, and they are an idiot who doesn't deserve freedom? Jeez... those Sandy Hook parents... what idiots who deserve to not be free!

That's nuts, and the sort of stance that obviously gets in the way of adult discussion.



Nobody... and I mean nobody... thinks that you will ever end all gun violence. That's a strawman.

Nobody said murder is going to stop. It is human nature. Another strawman.

But yes, many people believe that lessening the ability of some people to get guns in certain ways will result in fewer gun deaths.

Common sense dictates that to be true. If you made driving tests much harder, and you had to meet certain criteria to buy a car, there would be fewer driving deaths each year. Guns are tools as well, and if you take some out of circulation, there will be fewer deaths. You can argue that it isn't worth it (the legislation that would exists VS the lives saved) but to argue it would have no impact is just illogical.

And no, it is not a slippery slope to banning forks. That's another strawman. The gun is a tool designed for killing, the most deadly tool man has ever created. It is not the same as the automobile or the knife or the fork.

Anyone with half a brain would take a guy charging them with a knife over a guy wanting to kill them with a gun



I am always amazed by how extreme some people are about guns. And I say this as a guy who owns a lot of them, enjoys shooting them... hell, I've got two within reach of me as I type this. But it seems the most aggressive rhetoric in this thread is coming from one side. That's a shame.

Again, some people are evil. Gun owners are not.

I’ve had guns for 37 years since I was 10 and not one has hurt anyone.

Guns don’t kill people.

 

[TheDude1]

If you can't see what that has to do with banning guns, then I can't help you.

OFC

Dirt, lemme help you out:

The article you are posting is about two single cities, and while interesting, doesn't really contribute much in terms of data concerning homicide, guns, and knives (especially since it talked about people being shot in London.)

A more important piece of data, if you really want to compare a country with lax gun control vs a country with more gun control?

The UK has a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000 inhabitants.

The US has a homicide rate of 5.35 per 100,000 inhabitants.

So... what were you saying, about knives and guns?

 

[tw3301]

That's one interpretation

I mean you are just going by homicides not attempted homicides right?

 

[TheDude1]

Again, some people are evil. Gun owners are not.

I’ve had guns for 37 years since I was 10 and not one has hurt anyone.

Guns don’t kill people.

Nobody said gun owners are evil.

Your anecdote about yourself only counts for yourself.

Unfortunately there ARE many ill people out there, many evil people out there, many immature and out of control people out there, and one thing that some people DO say is that it might save American lives if we reduced access to some firearms.

That's it.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

Dirt, lemme help you out:

The article you are posting is about two single cities, and while interesting, doesn't really contribute much in terms of data.

A more important piece of data, if you really want to compare a country with lax gun control vs a country with more gun control?

The UK has a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000 inhabitants.

The US has a homicide rate of 5.35 per 100,000 inhabitants.

So... what were you saying, about knives and guns?

I'm saying people are going to kill no matter what you ban.

OFC

 

[Terror Beard]

But yes, many people believe that lessening the ability of some people to get guns in certain ways will result in fewer gun deaths.

Common sense dictates that to be true. If you made driving tests much harder, and you had to meet certain criteria to buy a car, there would be fewer driving deaths each year. Guns are tools as well, and if you take some out of circulation, there will be fewer deaths. You can argue that it isn't worth it (the legislation that would exists VS the lives saved) but to argue it would have no impact is just illogical.
.

There are some that don’t believe any new gun laws will decrease gun violence. And your analogy isn’t accurate. Making it harder to get a driver’s license doesn’t necessarily decrease car accidents. Strictly from a numbers game, maybe. You’d have less people driving so I guess that would reduce the number of accidents. But the main reason that your analogy is poor is because there is no where one can get a driver’s license on the black market. Maybe there is. But it’s not a lucrative business like black market gun dealership is. I’m a firm believer that the only people inconvenienced by gun laws are law abiding citizens. Gun laws don’t move the needle one bit for criminals.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

I want to add my .5 cent. My family and I have been victims of gun violence, from a sick person who had access to a weapon. I'll make this story as short as possible. In March 2005 my twin brother and sister were murdered by our first cousin (while they slept) all 3 were at the time were sharing an apartment and in college. . My cousin who is/was a very bright student never in trouble with the law, was later diagnosed with schizophrenia. He was forced by the state to get treatment, so that he could stand trial. Once treated he was extremely remorseful and was a totally different person than the young man arrested that night. He was found guilty of 2nd degree murder Due to his illness and is serving a 26 yr sentence. I respectfully disagree to the comment made by a poster (calling anyone who wants some form of gun control, are idiots and doesn’t deserve freedom (im paraphrasing). I say to you sir, there is a problem with the system we have in place now. I stated in a different post that I don’t have the answers, but I want to add that I also don’t turn a blind eye to a problem with the way the laws and ignore the fact that it needs addressed. IF that strips me from my freedom or makes me an idiot I can live with that. SO that some other family or friend don’t lose a loved one so senselessly.

That is a horrible story bro. I am sorry for that for whatever that means.

Your comment on not having the answers, but not turning a blind eye is where anyone who is speaking honestly here will say. It is part of the problem with regular people having this discussion on a sports message board. Though there are some very smart and knowledgeable people, their points are drowned out by the majority of us who pretend that we DO have the answers.

Another part of the problem is these discussions are always sparked by an event. People, with no reason to at all, automatically become defensive about their POV. It becomes a conversation driven by emotions and 9 out of 10 of us are not at our best when we are emotional. We are more likely to shut out the opposition and hammer our own views without compromise.

 

[jchammock]

Let's set aside the 2nd amendment. I am not a constitutional attorney, nor do I have strong beliefs on gun ownership one way or the other. As I've noted before, I grew up with a gun in the house. I have been kicking around the idea of getting a Sig 228 and a Remmington VersaMax, but have concerns with young children in the house.

What I would like to see is stronger controls for gun ownership, monitoring, and overall regulation. I would like to see stronger mental screening that can identify certain traits which could develop to be problematic.

Yes, I am aware that there are loads of guns out there now which are totally untraceable. I am aware that often, prohibition leads to more rampant abuse (not advocating banning guns). But to ignore the problem and simply say 'gun violence is going to happen, so why bother' does not sit well with me.

We know we have a mental health issue in this country. We know we have a large amount of gun violence relative to other industrialized countries. Why can't we get better?

Look buddy, I’m pissed as much as you are about evil people doing evil things.

As far as back ground checks go when you go to purchase guns it goes through the FBI database. The overall background check works if the local police sends in the personal information.

Like Parkland shooting, he had police show up 39 times to his house on suspicion of other people. They never put it in the database. He was also suspended and kicked out of school for bringing knives and ammo to school.

That was a total failure on local authority.

 

[TheDude1]

I'm saying people are going to kill no matter what you ban.

OFC

But that is not true. Well, not entirely.

Sure, people will still kill.

But you may have circumstances where someone who was going to kill with a gun ends up instead with a knife, or a bat, or whatever, and because of that they do NOT kill someone, or as many people.

So you may have fewer people killed.

And that, I think, is worth striving for.

There is no "all or nothing" with guns and people. There isn't. It will ALWAYS be somewhere in between.

 

[TheDude1]

That is a horrible story bro. I am sorry for that for whatever that means.

Your comment on not having the answers, but not turning a blind eye is where anyone who is speaking honestly here will say. It is part of the problem with regular people having this discussion on a sports message board. Though there are some very smart and knowledgeable people, their points are drowned out by the majority of us who pretend that we DO have the answers.

Another part of the problem is these discussions are always sparked by an event. People, with no reason to at all, automatically become defensive about their POV. It becomes a conversation driven by emotions and 9 out of 10 of us are not at our best when we are emotional. We are more likely to shut out the opposition and hammer our own views without compromise.

So who is this Letsgo, and why isn't THIS Letsgo on the main board more often?!?!

 

[Terror Beard]

Dirt, lemme help you out:

The article you are posting is about two single cities, and while interesting, doesn't really contribute much in terms of data concerning homicide, guns, and knives (especially since it talked about people being shot in London.)

A more important piece of data, if you really want to compare a country with lax gun control vs a country with more gun control?

The UK has a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000 inhabitants.

The US has a homicide rate of 5.35 per 100,000 inhabitants.

So... what were you saying, about knives and guns?

Comparing the US to any other country is as faulty as some of the arguments on the other side.

There is no country in the world as big and as diverse in culture as the US. That’s why what’s worked in the UK or Australia or Denmark (one of the left’s favorite comps) cannot be extrapolated over the US.

 

[TheDude1]

There are some that don’t believe any new gun laws will decrease gun violence. And your analogy isn’t accurate. Making it harder to get a driver’s license doesn’t necessarily decrease car accidents. Strictly from a numbers game, maybe. You’d have less people driving so I guess that would reduce the number of accidents. But the main reason that your analogy is poor is because there is no where one can get a driver’s license on the black market. Maybe there is. But it’s not a lucrative business like black market gun dealership is. I’m a firm believer that the only people inconvenienced by gun laws are law abiding citizens. Gun laws don’t move the needle one bit for criminals.

Yes. The bolded exactly. You'd have fewer people with guns, so you would reduce the number of gun deaths (suicide, homicide, accidental.)

There IS a black market for licenses, although its about drinking.

And if it WAS harder to get licenses, there probably WOULD be a black market.

And while gun laws don't move the needle on hardened criminals, they MIGHT move the needle for some wacko video game player or cheated-on-spouse or any number of circumstances where a gun was an easier, and far deadlier, solution than other solutions.

 

[TheDude1]

Comparing the US to any other country is as faulty as some of the arguments on the other side.

There is no country in the world as big and as diverse in culture as the US. That’s why what’s worked in the UK or Australia or Denmark (one of the left’s favorite comps) cannot be extrapolated over the US.

Why aren't you saying that to OldasDirt, who was the first one to bring other countries into it?

 

[Terror Beard]

But that is not true. Well, not entirely.

Sure, people will still kill.

But you may have circumstances where someone who was going to kill with a gun ends up instead with a knife, or a bat, or whatever, and because of that they do NOT kill someone, or as many people.

.

...or a pipe bomb, in which case they kill more people.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

So who is this Letsgo, and why isn't THIS Letsgo on the main board more often?!?!

You guys make me emotional over there. And 9 out of 10 of us are not at our best when we are emotional.

 

[TheDude1]

...or a pipe bomb, in which case they kill more people.

How many Americans were killed this year by pipe bombs?

How many Americans were killed this year by guns?

Pipebombs are ALREADY available... if they were really so effective, they would be used more. They aren't. People don't road-rage pipebomb someone, people don't mug people with pipebombs, people don't break into houses with pipebombs, people don't kill their cheating spouse with pipebombs.

 

[TheDude1]

You guys make me emotional over there. And 9 out of 10 of us are not at our best when we are emotional.

There. Gets us to Main Board territory

 

[Dad2ze]

I'm saying people are going to kill no matter what you ban.

OFC

Exactly. Of that statistic I’d like to see that number after you eliminate DC, Chicago, NYC, Phoenix, and Detroit.

Guns don’t kill people!!!

 

[TheDude1]

I have to say, as a gun owner myself, I am always amazed when fellow gun owners simultaneously A) refuse to acknowledge what an effective tool a gun is, while also B) refusing to give up said tool because they say it is the only real way to protect themselves and their loved ones from criminals and an overzealous government.

Its cognitive dissonance at its best

 

[TheDude1]

Exactly. Of that statistic I’d like to see that number after you eliminate DC, Chicago, NYC, Phoenix, and Detroit.

Guns don’t kill people!!!

We've already established that the highest per capita gun murders are in red states.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

But that is not true. Well, not entirely.

Sure, people will still kill.

But you may have circumstances where someone who was going to kill with a gun ends up instead with a knife, or a bat, or whatever, and because of that they do NOT kill someone, or as many people.

So you may have fewer people killed.

And that, I think, is worth striving for.

There is no "all or nothing" with guns and people. There isn't. It will ALWAYS be somewhere in between.

The only thing you will stop is the ability of the sick, the weak, the elderly to defend themselves. Gun control laws only control the flow of guns to people who obey the laws. I know you don't believe that, and I can't convince you of it, and neither can you convince me otherwise. Our differences and beliefs are too far apart. It's just what it is.

OFC

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

How many Americans were killed this year by pipe bombs?

How many Americans were killed this year by guns?

Pipebombs are ALREADY available... if they were really so effective, they would be used more. They aren't. People don't road-rage pipebomb someone, people don't mug people with pipebombs, people don't break into houses with pipebombs, people don't kill their cheating spouse with pipebombs.

It's tempting to carry a pipe bomb around for road rage incidents. How badass would that be?

 

[Showenuff]

Heheh, I like all of you that "aren't against guns" you simply want to keep them "Out of the wrong peoples hands". Nice idea, stupid. Impossible. But nice idea. Even if you declare "ED" an absolute emotional NUT and never allow him to buy a gun, when ED decides to wake up one morning and go kill somebody, ED , knows where uncle Mike hides his pistol. or shotgun. or AR. or machete, or hand grenade. He doesn't have to go the the local gun store and buy one folks.

 

[dukephysics]

Actually, they stay roughly the same.

I don't know that dividing along party line is a fair argument for either side. A better argument, I think, is along socioeconomics. It's why crime rates are high in cities. When people are poor, crime rates are higher. From the graphic you posted above, I looked at median household income (not a foolproof measure, but a reasonable proxy for how poor people are). Source below. The states above (with their rank) are:
LA (44), MS (50), AL (47), SC (43), AR (49), MO (36), GA (32), IL (18), TN (42), and MD (1)

as opposed to

CO (11), NY (15), WA (10), CT (5), OR (26), ID (40), UT (13), IA (25), MN (12), MA (6)

It seems that the gun crime rates split really well along household income. I think it's a lot more reasonable to associate gun crime with that than with the laws or party affiliation of the idiots in power - (I'm not picking sides - they are all idiots).

But I think the rest of your argument is nearly spot on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income

 

[Showenuff]

But bet your sweet ***, once ED DOES kill somebody, it's the NRA's fault.....every time.

 

[TheDude1]

Heheh, I like all of you that "aren't against guns" you simply want to keep them "Out of the wrong peoples hands". Nice idea, stupid. Impossible. But nice idea. Even if you declare "ED" an absolute emotional NUT and never allow him to buy a gun, when ED decides to wake up one morning and go kill somebody, ED , knows where uncle Mike hides his pistol. or shotgun. or AR. or machete, or hand grenade. He doesn't have to go the the local gun store and buy one folks.

No, not stupid, or impossible. I mean, I know you are sort of an over the top guy (as your fights with Mac make clear) but that’s just silly.

Okay, ED goes and kills someone. But what about “LU” who finds that his wife is cheating on him, runs out to the gun store to get a gun, and is told “Sorry, there is a wait time.” He then calms down, realizes what he was going to do, and decides just to divorce her.

If we are going to invent stories, why not invent for both sides?

And man, that Uncle Mike... that’s one irresponsible gun owner.

I don't know that dividing along party line is a fair argument for either side. A better argument, I think, is along socioeconomics. It's why crime rates are high in cities. When people are poor, crime rates are higher. From the graphic you posted above, I looked at median household income (not a foolproof measure, but a reasonable proxy for how poor people are). Source below. The states above (with their rank) are:
LA (44), MS (50), AL (47), SC (43), AR (49), MO (36), GA (32), IL (18), TN (42), and MD (1)

as opposed to

CO (11), NY (15), WA (10), CT (5), OR (26), ID (40), UT (13), IA (25), MN (12), MA (6)

It seems that the gun crime rates split really well along household income. I think it's a lot more reasonable to associate gun crime with that than with the laws or party affiliation of the idiots in power - (I'm not picking sides - they are all idiots).

But I think the rest of your argument is nearly spot on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income

Yeah, it’s clearly a lot about socioeconomic status, but that seems a bit beyond the scope of this discussion, to be frank... this whole thing started with a guy blaming Democrats who run cities, and we are still trying to evaluate “If you believe in gun control you are an idiot who doesn’t deserve to be free”

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

No, not stupid, or impossible. I mean, I know you are sort of an over the top guy (as your fights with Mac make clear) but that’s just silly.

Okay, ED goes and kills someone. But what about “LU” who finds that his wife is cheating on him, runs out to the gun store to get a gun, and is told “Sorry, there is a wait time.” He then calms down, realizes what he was going to do, and decides just to divorce her.

If we are going to invent stories, why not invent for both sides?

And man, that Uncle Mike... that’s one irresponsible gun owner.



Yeah, it’s clearly a lot about socioeconomic status, but that seems a bit beyond the scope of this discussion, to be frank... this whole thing started with a guy blaming Democrats who run cities, and we are still trying to evaluate “If you believe in gun control you are an idiot who doesn’t deserve to be free”

LU is a fcking idiot! Always buy the gun BEFORE you get married.

 

[dukephysics]

Yeah, it’s clearly a lot about socioeconomic status, but that seems a bit beyond the scope of this discussion, to be frank... this whole thing started with a guy blaming Democrats who run cities, and we are still trying to evaluate “If you believe in gun control you are an idiot who doesn’t deserve to be free”

Well I just think any claim like "its the democrats who run the cities" or the "it's all in the red states" arguments miss the mark. This is the go-to argument for the politicians (and so it trickles down the the masses) so they can blame the other side instead of actually coming together to find real solutions that would have some chance of having a real effect.

 

[jchammock]

Dirt, lemme help you out:

The article you are posting is about two single cities, and while interesting, doesn't really contribute much in terms of data concerning homicide, guns, and knives (especially since it talked about people being shot in London.)

A more important piece of data, if you really want to compare a country with lax gun control vs a country with more gun control?

The UK has a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000 inhabitants.

The US has a homicide rate of 5.35 per 100,000 inhabitants.

So... what were you saying, about knives and guns?

You do know London’s primary homicide rate is from knives? And it’s already surpassed New York City.

Those pesky guns.

 

[dukehokie]

I want to add my .5 cent. My family and I have been victims of gun violence, from a sick person who had access to a weapon. I'll make this story as short as possible. In March 2005 my twin brother and sister were murdered by our first cousin (while they slept) all 3 were at the time were sharing an apartment and in college. . My cousin who is/was a very bright student never in trouble with the law, was later diagnosed with schizophrenia. He was forced by the state to get treatment, so that he could stand trial. Once treated he was extremely remorseful and was a totally different person than the young man arrested that night. He was found guilty of 2nd degree murder Due to his illness and is serving a 26 yr sentence. I respectfully disagree to the comment made by a poster (calling anyone who wants some form of gun control, are idiots and doesn’t deserve freedom (im paraphrasing). I say to you sir, there is a problem with the system we have in place now. I stated in a different post that I don’t have the answers, but I want to add that I also don’t turn a blind eye to a problem with the way the laws and ignore the fact that it needs to be addressed. IF that strips me from my freedom or makes me an idiot I can live with that. SO that some other family or friend don’t lose a loved one so senselessly.

I’m sorry this tragedy hit your family. Thank you for sharing this with us. I know that isn’t easy.