Carter’s mom

[Bod1ne]

Woof. A few points worth discussing, but also a lot there I cannot get behind, the most noticeable of which is when you accuse Wendell's mom of taking advantage of/manipulating her son, when you don't know a single thing about her, him, the family... any of it.

I know a lot about her, because she has gone on record and made her opinions open for public consumption. And if it walks like a Duck and quacks like a duck.....

She is part of a small group of folks that think they're more entitled than everyone else because they birthed and raised a lottery ticket. And this group has zero regard for how them getting paid would take opportunities away from the vast majority of potential college athletes. Hundreds of thousands.

It's a shallow and narcissistic argument she is making, that has been made a thousand times before, and it's made by greedy people that only want you to look at the profits the NCAA makes and not the time, money, talent and effort it takes to make the whole thing possible.

IMHO

 

[timo0402]

There is a difference between discussing her and discussing some of the issues that she addresses and those two are getting quite intertwined and clouding the issues that actually do have some merit to them.

 

[sheyduke]

Not every 18 year old kid can handle going to live and play in a foreign country. Some of these kids have probably never been out of the country before.

I know there are options but that doesn’t take away the fact that this is a billion dollar industry and everyone is getting rich but these kids. The fact that some will make millions next year or the year after that does not change the fact of how much money these schools make of of college basketball.

That’s passing the buck on the,” most these kids can’t handle playing overseas!”

So how else do the schools pay for the room and board and education for every scholarship athlete? So take away the scholarships and the kids have to still pay for college. Pay players where do other cuts get made to afford it. Not every school is making mega bucks off these kids.

The kid from Syracuse didn’t want college so he choose to enter the d-league. It was his choice and in his eyes the right one. No one is forcing these kids to come to college, no one.

What about the college programs that aren’t on tv a lot and don’t have fans bases across the world like Duke, UK, Kansas, UNC, Arizona and so on.

Two kids were ineligible this year after the probe and are still projected first round. They had to fork out money to train and stay in shape for the draft. So go that route. You do not have to go to college.

They are making the argument because they can not go straight to the league and that is not the NCAA fault.

Look at how many lottery picks end up after their first two years over seas or spending time in the gleague because they simply can’t adjust. That isn’t any colleges fault.

 

[TheDude1]

I know a lot about her, because she has gone on record and made her opinions open for public consumption. And if it walks like a Duck and quacks like a duck.....

She is part of a small group of folks that think they're more entitled than everyone else because they birthed and raised a lottery ticket. And this group has zero regard for how them getting paid would take opportunities away from the vast majority of potential college athletes. Hundreds of thousands.

It's a shallow and narcissistic argument she is making, that has been made a thousand times before, and it's made by greedy people that only want you to look at the profits the NCAA makes and not the time, money, talent and effort it takes to make the whole thing possible.

IMHO

Entitled? Birthed and raised a lottery ticket? Are you kidding me? WTF... this is a MOM, talking about her SON, a son who WENT TO DUKE.

You are laying ALL sorts of judgments and motives over someone you know absolutely nothing about.

This is a mom who sacrificed for her boy for years and years and years, and a mom who has SEEN the game and the business from the inside, in a way that NOBODY here has, and who wants her boy and the other kids who are part of this massive system to be able to share some of the great wealth and all, the literal tens of billions of dollars, that is made by the people who do NOT shoot the ball, who do NOT get sacked, who do NOT do what the actual athletes do.

Some of this stuff you are writing is straight offensive. How old are your children? Do you look at your kid like "giving birth to a lottery ticket?" Get out of here with that nonsense.

 

[LONMUNU]

That’s passing the buck on the,” most these kids can’t handle playing overseas!”

So how else do the schools pay for the room and board and education for every scholarship athlete? So take away the scholarships and the kids have to still pay for college. Pay players where do other cuts get made to afford it. Not every school is making mega bucks off these kids.

The kid from Syracuse didn’t want college so he choose to enter the d-league. It was his choice and in his eyes the right one. No one is forcing these kids to come to college, no one.

What about the college programs that aren’t on tv a lot and don’t have fans bases across the world like Duke, UK, Kansas, UNC, Arizona and so on.

Two kids were ineligible this year after the probe and are still projected first round. They had to fork out money to train and stay in shape for the draft. So go that route. You do not have to go to college.

They are making the argument because they can not go straight to the league and that is not the NCAA fault.

Look at how many lottery picks end up after their first two years over seas or spending time in the gleague because they simply can’t adjust. That isn’t any colleges fault.

Shey I don’t disagree with you, I’d have no clue how to even work out how these kids would get paid and I know not every school is created equal. That’s why earlier I said that they don’t even have to get paid but they should at least be allowed to get jobs, sell autographs, be in commercials etc. just because they aren’t forced to go to college and they have other choices doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be allowed to make money.

 

[TheDude1]

Dukiejay, I don’t disagree with you, I’d have no clue how to even work out how these kids would get paid and I know not every school is created equal. That’s why earlier I said that they don’t even have to get paid but they should at least be allowed to get jobs, sell autographs, be in commercials etc. just because they aren’t forced to go to college doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be allowed to make money.

Yeah, salaries would be VERY difficult to manage. I'd think that allowing players to profit off of their likenesses and such would be the way to go... or at least a SIMPLER way to go?

 

[Bod1ne]

As a side question on this topic, does anyone really think that the NCAA or schools paying athletes a reasonable stipend would stop some of these parents and some kids (OJ Mayo and Terrell Pryor come to mind) from crying about not getting a bigger piece of the pie than the rest?

 

[Bod1ne]

You are wrong.

"I told him I wanted him to come back [to school]," Carter's mom, Kylia, told The Undefeated. "His jaw dropped. It has nothing to do with basketball. It's about you. It's about who he is. He is a student at core."

Being a student, growing as a person, is the very HEART of the Duke experience.

While acknowledging it's a business decision, Kylia Carter believes her son will become a better leader and more confident person if he returns to Duke.

She said she told her son: "If you came back it would make you a better person, improve your quality of life."

A better leader because he would be under K. A better person because of the education he would receive, the views he would be exposed to, the debates he would participate in, the fellow students and professors he would know... all at the heart of the Duke experience.

I've seen absolutely nothing that makes Kylia Carter any less of a Duke mom than anyone else. She supported her son's decision to come to our school, cheered from the stands, and has said she thought he would become a better person if he had stayed.

Your judgement is ridiculous.

And out of the other side of her mouth she's saying him having to go to school is akin to slavery. Which isn't even the NCAA's rule, btw. She should have directed her angst at the NBA for forcing her son into slavery.

 

[Bod1ne]

Entitled? Birthed and raised a lottery ticket? Are you kidding me? WTF... this is a MOM, talking about her SON, a son who WENT TO DUKE.

You are laying ALL sorts of judgments and motives over someone you know absolutely nothing about.

This is a mom who sacrificed for her boy for years and years and years, and a mom who has SEEN the game and the business from the inside, in a way that NOBODY here has, and who wants her boy and the other kids who are part of this massive system to be able to share some of the great wealth and all, the literal tens of billions of dollars, that is made by the people who do NOT shoot the ball, who do NOT get sacked, who do NOT do what the actual athletes do.

Some of this stuff you are writing is straight offensive. How old are your children? Do you look at your kid like "giving birth to a lottery ticket?" Get out of here with that nonsense.

You clearly don't pay much attention to the underside of recruiting and how to some of these parents, their child is ABSOLUTELY a lottery ticket to them. Don't think for a second that all parents are as loving and caring for their children as you think you are. I said "small group" for a reason. A reason you clearly missed. Her opinion about WC being enslaved because he isn't getting a cut of the profits says a lot about her priorities and views.

Sorry I offended your sensibilities.

 

[TheDude1]

You clearly don't pay much attention to the underside of recruiting and how to some of these parents, their child is ABSOLUTELY a lottery ticket to them. Don't think for a second that all parents are as loving and caring for their children as you think you are. I said "small group" for a reason. A reason you clearly missed. Her opinion about WC being enslaved because he isn't getting a cut of the profits says a lot about her priorities and views.

Sorry I offended your sensibilities.

You aren't "offending my sensibilities" (I am honestly not sure what that really means?) I think you are projecting these really terrible motives onto the parent of one of our players, a kid who apparently was raised to really value education and who was, by all accounts, a good student at Duke... and that comes from SOMEWHERE. By you saying "Wendell's mom just looks at her son like a meal ticket" you are ABSOLUTELY creating this bizarre and totally unsubstantiated concept of who she is... and I find that really hard to understand, coming from a Duke fan. The fact is that 99 percent of parents of players love their kids because they are their KIDS, not because they are good basketball players. You suggesting that there is this whole segment of parents who only view their kids as lottery tickets... there is nothing to support that, and in fact the entire of the human condition and what it means to nearly everyone to be parents stands in stark CONTRAST to that.

 

[LouisiAaron]

Majority of black people see it as a form of slavery. More so basketball than football have a problem because basketball has been known to be able to skip college. Football players accept it more because they realize that jumping from playing high school kids to playing grown men is a big jump in one year in such a physical sport. They accept not being fully prepared mentally and physically. But it kind of is a form of slavery because you work these long hours on/off the field and they expect you to perform a certain way. In return you get money for food pretty much. Most of the time when people don’t get paid what they believe they’re worth they feel like they are slaving. I find it funny how people that aren’t black get so upset when a black person likens something to slavery. That’s not your place to get upset. I can understand a former slave getting upset but that’s about it

 

[TheDude1]

Majority of black people see it as a form of slavery. More so basketball than football have a problem because basketball has been known to be able to skip college. Football players accept it more because they realize that jumping from playing high school kids to playing grown men is a big jump in one year in such a physical sport. They accept not being fully prepared mentally and physically. But it kind of is a form of slavery because you work these long hours on/off the field and they expect you to perform a certain way. In return you get money for food pretty much. Most of the time when people don’t get paid what they believe they’re worth they feel like they are slaving. I find it funny how people that aren’t black get so upset when a black person likens something to slavery. That’s not your place to get upset. I can understand a former slave getting upset but that’s about it

Eh, that's a lot to say.

First, "FORM of slavery" is a big term, with a lot of wiggle room. Clearly the term "slavery" is a pretty loaded term, and she knew it when she used it.

Second, saying it is not someones place to get upset... thats a BIG jump. I might say "You don't have the same experiences as the person, so you cannot casually dismiss their entire point" but...

 

[dbav]

Honestly, this is a mother looking out for her kid and I'd rather have a mother like her ready to speak up about it. Some of the things she said were hyperbole, I don't think anyone denies that, but to call her entitled or a leech is ridiculous at this point, though expected on this board in my opinion.

The truth is that he did get compensated with a year of education. However, that $50,000.00 is likely a fraction of 1% of what the Duke Basketball program made off of Wendell. There is no question in my mind about that. And I think some of the rules are archaic in many ways. Every other profession outside of sports would allow kids to leave school or not even go to school to ply their trade. Many of the most successful people in the world never went to school.

I think what compounds the matter in this case is that the NBA rule doesn't have a lot of reasoning behind it, which makes the best option going to college which then has its own rule. The NBA rule is not based on safety like the NFL rules. Add to that the fact that she was investigated for a $50 lunch that she walked out of, and that the investigation could have impacted her son's professional career, and I understand why she would want to speak up. I'd be incredibly annoyed based on all of the circumstances that led to this situation.

I have always believed that college athletes do get compensated through the education, however, that grant for those classes doesn't put food on their table while members of the department they are working for are making millions. That is not a shot at K or the staff, but it is the truth. I think the only method that makes any sense, at least in my opinion, is to begin to consider the idea of some sort of revenue sharing with the players. Perhaps a percentage of the revenue to the department goes to the players. That is the only workable solution I can think of.

I don't disagree that some of the comments are over the top, but given all of the circumstances, the points are certainly valid. I think that we forget that these kids don't necessarily have the socioeconomic standing as we do, or even other players do. That compensation in the way of classes does not help those situations while the players are making a ton of money for the program. Until recently, I've been a staunch supporter of the idea that the education is payment enough, but perhaps it's time to consider a new direction.

Also, I agree with Dude in that this is a Duke mom. You may not like what she has to say, but you could at least attempt to understand the premise behind it. Many seemed to turn on her very quickly for standing up for her son. I suppose with friends like that, who needs enemies?

 

[Canadian Dukie]

Using the word Slavery to describe this situation is an affront to all humans who ever have been enslaved.Slavery is the most vile thing humans have ever done to one another and should not be used in something as trivial as sports.I liken it to athlete saying they are going to war,or this game will be a war..that is a slap in the face to all the men and women who have fought and died so our countries could be free,its not a war,its a game

 

[LouisiAaron]

Eh, that's a lot to say.

First, "FORM of slavery" is a big term, with a lot of wiggle room. Clearly the term "slavery" is a pretty loaded term, and she knew it when she used it.

Second, saying it is not someones place to get upset... thats a BIG jump. I might say "You don't have the same experiences as the person, so you cannot casually dismiss their entire point" but...

I said unless you were a slave then you shouldn’t be as offended as some people get. She likens it to slavery because that’s what she believe it is. I notice white folks complain more when a black person says this than black folks. You can do a poll in the black community and majority will say it’s modern day slavery.

 

[HuffyJB]

I said unless you were a slave then you shouldn’t be as offended as some people get. She likens it to slavery because that’s what she believe it is. I notice white folks complain more when a black person says this than black folks. You can do a poll in the black community and majority will say it’s modern day slavery.

Personally, I wasn't offended per se, just thought it was an inaccurate and ineffective comparison, made exclusively for shock value. This issue she discusses is a very real one that merits discussion. But in her comparison, one thing is not akin to the other for a number of reasons - one being in the most fundamental way, which is (despite what Kayne says) that one is completely and totally voluntary. I don't know if it is completely how I feel, but I can see how someone of any race could contend that you demean a historical atrocity by using it in this context. To me, that is probably a bit of an overreaction, but I get it just the same.

 

[LouisiAaron]

Personally, I wasn't offended per se, just thought it was an inaccurate and ineffective comparison, made exclusively for shock value. This issue she discusses is a very real one that merits discussion. But in her comparison, one thing is not akin to the other for a number of reasons - one being in the most fundamental way, which is (despite what Kayne says) that one is completely and totally voluntary. I don't know if it is completely how I feel, but I can see how someone of any race could contend that you demean a historical atrocity by using it in this context. To me, that is probably a bit of an overreaction, but I get it just the same.

I’m sure she meant a form of modern day slavery. It’s not on the level of prison as far as being like slavery but a lot of black people look at the exploitation of these young black kids as a form of modern day slavery. NCAA is about money but the people actually putting in all the work and putting their life on the line isn’t getting paid anywhere near what the people doing nothing are getting.

 

[Laettner]

If schools start paying players exhorbitant salaries say goodbye to non-revenue & money losing sports.

Hope Mrs. Carter gets that pile of NBA money, seems that's her only interest. Duke was the first place Wendell was truly loved by students/fans and thats why she told her to son to return. NBA is a cutthroat place so hope that money is worth it.

 

[Wolfman2610]

I’m sure she meant a form of modern day slavery. It’s not on the level of prison as far as being like slavery but a lot of black people look at the exploitation of these young black kids as a form of modern day slavery. NCAA is about money but the people actually putting in all the work and putting their life on the line isn’t getting paid anywhere near what the people doing nothing are getting.

Ok...So then wouldn't the alternative be, DON'T PLAY COLLEGE BASKETBALL?

I wasn't exactly a history major in college, but I missed the part where any form of slavery involves knowing exactly what you were agreeing to and then running as fast as you could towards that opportunity.

If you don't like the terms, don't go along with the program.....Play in the "G" League, play overseas; don't play at all, get a job and be a regular student.....You have options; slaves of any kind never did.

I think what we have here (and not just with Wendell's mom) is this belief that we are living in a Burger King society.....Contrary to that philosophy, you can't have life your way....You get married, you understand that some of the freedoms of bachelorhood are gone; you take a job, you understand that the guy in the corner office may not work harder than you, but probably gets paid more....Life (and especially adulthood) is about accepting that there are benefits and drawbacks to just about every decision you make. You weigh them against and then you take a course of action.

I ask you this, despite all of their complaining, do you think the majority of major conference basketball and football players would change places with the average student? Because I am willing to bet that about 95 percent of the regular students would gladly do that switch with the current terms in place....And when 95 percent of the campus would relish your life, you are not the victim; you are the privileged.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

Her overall point is valid.
I just wish she would have correlated it cleaner.

The NCAA is a joke, I wish more parents spoke up like this, but I also wish those parents articulated the overall point better than she did.

I’ll always consider every Duke player and Duke parent to be a part of the Duke family.

 

[CRAZIE4LIFE]

I thought scholarships used to be a blessing to kids that couldn't afford to go to school and kids were awarded scholarships because they excelled at their sport and given an opportunity to go to that school for free or at half the cost. Now to be able to go to college without paying is considered a punishment a kin to slavery...SMH

 

[LouisiAaron]

Ok...So then wouldn't the alternative be, DON'T PLAY COLLEGE BASKETBALL?

I wasn't exactly a history major in college, but I missed the part where any form of slavery involves knowing exactly what you were agreeing to and then running as fast as you could towards that opportunity.

If you don't like the terms, don't go along with the program.....Play in the "G" League, play overseas; don't play at all, get a job and be a regular student.....You have options; slaves of any kind never did.

I think what we have here (and not just with Wendell's mom) is this belief that we are living in a Burger King society.....Contrary to that philosophy, you can't have life your way....You get married, you understand that some of the freedoms of bachelorhood are gone; you take a job, you understand that the guy in the corner office may not work harder than you, but probably gets paid more....Life (and especially adulthood) is about accepting that there are benefits and drawbacks to just about every decision you make. You weigh them against and then you take a course of action.

I ask you this, despite all of their complaining, do you think the majority of major conference basketball and football players would change places with the average student? Because I am willing to bet that about 95 percent of the regular students would gladly do that switch with the current terms in place....And when 95 percent of the campus would relish your life, you are not the victim; you are the privileged.

Man you can say all that you want. I’m just telling you what black people see it as. Predominantly white schools get this black players to make them money. That’s what it is. And yes the players go to these schools because of the exposure. Black schools don’t get the same exposure because they don’t have the funds. These black families think they’re using the school but eventually realize they are the ones being used. That’s why these parents come out and say things like this after the fact

 

[sheyduke]

Shey I don’t disagree with you, I’d have no clue how to even work out how these kids would get paid and I know not every school is created equal. That’s why earlier I said that they don’t even have to get paid but they should at least be allowed to get jobs, sell autographs, be in commercials etc. just because they aren’t forced to go to college and they have other choices doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be allowed to make money.

Now I can get on board with that. Especially the jersey numbers. Everyone knows why you buy them for the player.
I’m guilty of it lol. I buy atleast two jerseys a year .

I just say the best way( as of now) imo to fix it. Go straight out of high school be done with it.

 

[Wolfman2610]

Man you can say all that you want. I’m just telling you what black people see it as. Predominantly white schools get this black players to make them money. That’s what it is. And yes the players go to these schools because of the exposure. Black schools don’t get the same exposure because they don’t have the funds. These black families think they’re using the school but eventually realize they are the ones being used. That’s why these parents come out and say things like this after the fact

Understandable, but considering she herself is a former DI athlete (for a sport that did not generate money for the school), I would expect her to understand the trade-off.

Women's basketball when she played probably cost Ole Miss money to operate. But yet, she still received the scholarship, the free room/board, and all other perks.....

In other words, she was a direct benefactor of the system that she is now attacking.

No one is getting used. Both sides end up winners! The NCAA/schools make boat loads of cash; the players get exactly what they were looking for---exposure, coaching, etc.

Sometimes, there really is a "no lose" situation.....College basketball and football are two of them.....They may not be making out like kings, but they are hardly jesters either....Everyone is getting something.

 

[TheDude1]

Man you can say all that you want. I’m just telling you what black people see it as. Predominantly white schools get this black players to make them money. That’s what it is. And yes the players go to these schools because of the exposure. Black schools don’t get the same exposure because they don’t have the funds. These black families think they’re using the school but eventually realize they are the ones being used. That’s why these parents come out and say things like this after the fact

I just have to point out that Duke is actually NOT majority white. We have a really diverse student body.

Champ, I agree with your basic premise, that a lot of African American families see the entire system as being rigged against the players, who are often black. I think we disagree on a few specifics, but...

 

[skysdad]

Can't wait until they start letting high school players go straight to the NBA. It may take a while to get used to but it will still be college B.B., the top coaches and programs will still be out there recruiting the best players they out there and I can only speak for myself but I will still love the game and I WILL still be a Duke fan. OFC

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

While getting a free education is nice, you can’t spend a free education. Everyone is getting rich off of this but they don’t deserve a piece of the pie? I mean assistants are making millions now. It is a billion dollar industry. It’s a business, it’s no longer amateurism and hasn’t been for a long time.

Technically you don’t even have to pay them although I think they should. Let them work, let them sell their autographs, let them make and sell shirts or whatever. Some have said it’s all about money and it absolutely is but somehow we are ok with everyone profiting off of these kids while they aren’t allowed to make a dime.

"School/coach over player" is one of the main reasons I prefer CBB over the inflated egos of the NBA.

Indeed there are examples of student athletes from well off families (Manziel comes to mind) and it often creates an unappealing dynamic

You are proposing a scenario where players could theoretically generate more personal income (with jersey sales etc) than the University teachers, assistant coaches and possibly even head coach - I don't want that. We know very well how this will create entitlement and steadily rott the sport.

 

[dukiejay]

I thought scholarships used to be a blessing to kids that couldn't afford to go to school and kids were awarded scholarships because they excelled at their sport and given an opportunity to go to that school for free or at half the cost. Now to be able to go to college without paying is considered a punishment a kin to slavery...SMH

First of all, I'll reiterate my original point....poor choice of 'word' on her part. But much of what she says still applies.

Second, I bolded the word 'used' above because while that's true, college also didn't 'used' to be a billion dollar industry.

I often go back to when the Fab Five was at Michigan. Mitch Albom (great writer and someone who covered the Fab Five) was walking one day with Chris Webber and they went past a sporting goods store. In the window was a Michigan jersey with Webber's name and his #4 on the back. It was selling for something like $75. Also in the window were 'baggy' Michigan shorts, the black socks they had popularized and the Nike 'Michigan' shoes. To buy the whole ensemble was over $250. Albom talked how Webber just shook his head and said, "I can't afford to go out to eat, but the NCAA can sell my name and likeness and I don't get a penny." ( 1) that's paraphrased and 2) I'm well aware that as it turns out Webber was getting money on the side.)

Basically, I don't have a beef with your post, but using the word 'used' implies the past tense. And yes, getting a free education from Duke is hard to put a value on....but still.....10, 20, 30, and 50 years later we're still where we 'used' to be on that front. Meanwhile, the NCAA, executives and schools who didn't 'used' to generate substantial revenue, now are. The kids are seeing none of it.

I think just about every person here understands that it's not the end of the world for a kid to get a free education at Duke, meal plans and other benefits that come with being a student-athlete. Those are great things and shouldn't be undervalued, IMO. But that's the question some of us are asking. Are they undervalued? Again, it's discussion-worthy, no matter your side of the argument. I think someone being obtuse about the issue, on either side, just has their head in the sand.

This is why we have the divide we have in this country. More and more, we're incapable of having discussions.

 

[Bod1ne]

I'm going to leave this discussion on this point.

The NCAA is a joke as a governing organization, which is what it was started as. And it and it's member institutions make billions as a whole. But they also spend billions on everything it takes to make this possible for them, the kids, the families and the fans. These kids that come to Duke have top notch everything they could hope for within a university setting. The parents get plenty of perks as well.

The argument that WC made more for Duke than Duke spent is ridiculous. Those contracts and financial benefits were earned by the program, as a whole, long before WC was even a recruit. Maybe a few more people (out of the millions that normally watch Duke) watched because of WC. But he had nothing to do with any of the financial benefits Duke accrued while he was there. They were already a given.

Wendell Carter was the beneficiary of all that, not the creator of it. At best he helped sustain what was already there. He got to get better as a player (and hopefully a person), he got to live like a king, eat like a king, hopefully take advantage of great educational opportunities and he got to market himself (and be marketed by Duke) to the NBA and potential advertisers, all on Dukes dime.

All he had to do was play basketball, something he would've been doing everyday anyways.

For anyone to suggest that WC or any member of his family (or anyone who played ball for a major program for that matter) got the short end of the stick is flat out ignorant.

This is just plain greed we are talking about, and it has been since the first time the "slavery" analogy was used. It's some folks way of screaming "those people have more and I want it". There's nothing redeeming about it.

 

[dukiejay]

I'm going to leave this discussion on this point.

The NCAA is a joke as a governing organization, which is what it was started as. And it and it's member institutions make billions as a whole. But they also spend billions on everything it takes to make this possible for them, the kids, the families and the fans. These kids that come to Duke have top notch everything they could hope for within a university setting. The parents get plenty of perks as well.

The argument that WC made more for Duke than Duke spent is ridiculous. Those contracts and financial benefits were earned by the program, as a whole, long before WC was even a recruit. Maybe a few more people (out of the millions that normally watch Duke) watched because of WC. But he had nothing to do with any of the financial benefits Duke accrued while he was there. They were already a given.

Wendell Carter was the beneficiary of all that, not the creator of it. At best he helped sustain what was already there. He got to get better as a player (and hopefully a person), he got to live like a king, eat like a king, hopefully take advantage of great educational opportunities and he got to market himself (and be marketed by Duke) to the NBA and potential advertisers, all on Dukes dime.

All he had to do was play basketball, something he would've been doing everyday anyways.

For anyone to suggest that WC or any member of his family (or anyone who played ball for a major program for that matter) got the short end of the stick is flat out ignorant.

This is just plain greed we are talking about, and it has been since the first time the "slavery" analogy was used. It's some folks way of screaming "those people have more and I want it". There's nothing redeeming about it.

This is a pretty good post.

The only thing I would say is that I don't think the Carter's are saying they got the short end of the stick, just that the NCAA is a broken system that 1) should be revamped, and/or 2) be discarded altogether.

 

[LONMUNU]

"School/coach over player" is one of the main reasons I prefer CBB over the inflated egos of the NBA.

Indeed there are examples of student athletes from well off families (Manziel comes to mind) and it often creates an unappealing dynamic

You are proposing a scenario where players could theoretically generate more personal income (with jersey sales etc) than the University teachers, assistant coaches and possibly even head coach - I don't want that. We know very well how this will create entitlement and steadily rott the sport.

If they can make more off of jersey sales than the head coach then I would very much say yes, a free education isn’t enough.

That being said, I don’t think they can make that much. They could get a percentage of jersey sales like most athletes. They wouldn’t get all of it. I mean the money is there, it is going to people, just none of it goes to the athletes.

The playing field is not what is used to be. The rules in place are not based off a multi billion dollar industry.

 

[gottagonow]

She is all about getting attention and used the slavery issue and racism as is often the case and a good amount of stupidity to achieve her agenda. She said he peace and now hopefully she will go away.

 

[CRAZIE4LIFE]

First of all, I'll reiterate my original point....poor choice of 'word' on her part. But much of what she says still applies.

Second, I bolded the word 'used' above because while that's true, college also didn't 'used' to be a billion dollar industry.

I often go back to when the Fab Five was at Michigan. Mitch Albom (great writer and someone who covered the Fab Five) was walking one day with Chris Webber and they went past a sporting goods store. In the window was a Michigan jersey with Webber's name and his #4 on the back. It was selling for something like $75. Also in the window were 'baggy' Michigan shorts, the black socks they had popularized and the Nike 'Michigan' shoes. To buy the whole ensemble was over $250. Albom talked how Webber just shook his head and said, "I can't afford to go out to eat, but the NCAA can sell my name and likeness and I don't get a penny." ( 1) that's paraphrased and 2) I'm well aware that as it turns out Webber was getting money on the side.)

Basically, I don't have a beef with your post, but using the word 'used' implies the past tense. And yes, getting a free education from Duke is hard to put a value on....but still.....10, 20, 30, and 50 years later we're still where we 'used' to be on that front. Meanwhile, the NCAA, executives and schools who didn't 'used' to generate substantial revenue, now are. The kids are seeing none of it.

I think just about every person here understands that it's not the end of the world for a kid to get a free education at Duke, meal plans and other benefits that come with being a student-athlete. Those are great things and shouldn't be undervalued, IMO. But that's the question some of us are asking. Are they undervalued? Again, it's discussion-worthy, no matter your side of the argument. I think someone being obtuse about the issue, on either side, just has their head in the sand.

This is why we have the divide we have in this country. More and more, we're incapable of having discussions.

I do understand your point, sadly the whole thing comes down to money and greed. I dont really have an issue with either sides argument but seems like it has become such a mess that I dont know if there will ever be a happy medium.

 

[PatrickYates]

There are plenty of alternatives to the NCAA and playing in college. The G league or overseas or a prep school or even just hanging out at some sort of training facility.
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But college under the NCAA is preferable to that for many players.
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What a lot of folks are griping about is that they don't have a perfect system. One where star players get HUGE, and don't kid yourselves about how they envision the split, HUGE portion of the earnings.
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What these folks really want is a return to "preps to pros" rules. The next few HS classes will wean the owners from being OK with that. We've had a nice little run where the burnout rate was very low. Most of the top HS players panned out. A few over performed relative to expectations. I think we are about to enter a down period in player quality. The very top 1-2 players, if that, will be easy to evaluate. Then it will fall off a cliff. Take Duke next year. RJ looks pretty good, but before throwing a number 1 pick at him, I bet some teams want to see if he can make 3s, which every non C in the league has to be able to do. Cam has real questions relative to hustle and effort. Zion has a ton of questions. No one would be surprised if all three look like top 10 picks and future (and sooner rather than later) NBA stars. But neither should anyone be surprised if it turns out that they look more like middling NBA players. They are highly ranked, but they are ranked in bad classes. The next few are just as bad, with too many highly ranked bigs, and not as many top tier PGs and wings. All it will take is a few lottery picks completely busting out, and the NBA will come crying back to the NBA for better evaluation.
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Or...........

If "player" advocates think the NCAA is bad, wait until the NBA takes over development. You'll see non-guaranteed contracts at the G league level, followed by long term "2 way" deals. Sure, guys like LeBron or KD will do fine. But a lot of players will fall through the cracks.
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With College, players can choose a program that they feel best suits them. In the pros, you might have situations where OK hs PGs get picked by a team that has a good PG already, only to see the new HS player just get churned out of the system.

 

[Showenuff]

Look. I'm not going to pretend that I KNOW what WC's mom thinks. I do know this. She loves and supports her son. Anyone who hasn't recognized that is a fool. I think her intentions are good but she may have gone off course a bit with her comparisons. I truly doubt spending a season on Duke Campus was in the same GALAXY as slavery. Wendell ate the best food, wore the best gear, met the best people, made the best friends, utilized the best equipment and got the best exposure he could ever hope to find. I understand that for an entire year, he had no financial income, but slavery? Yep, he was used and people made money off of him for a season, but his payday is just around the corner now, why risk tampering with that opportunity? You have to train to become good at your job, you don't make a lot of money at first, but as your skills increase, the pay goes up, you know, like when Wendell gets picked in the NBA draft very soon. Training is over, now he gets paid.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

I’m with some just let them go to the nba and be done with it . Include all seniors in the draft? Guys that want an education and to work on their game go to college.... make scholarships 3 year commitments or something .Give O&D thinkers that didn’t get drafted the opportunity to go make money in the D league or overseas . Combine that with a mandatory 3 years if you commit to a scholarship and if you fail to stay you pay back 2 years or something lol. I mean if they leave they got money! Lol . Fair to both sides. the guys that didn’t get a scholarship because they took it . And a small price to pay for them . I don’t know. any ideas you can come up with something similar? Teeakers?! Lol I’m just spit balling. This is tuff to please everybody and make it fair... I do know it’s not paying players anything though! Especially ones on scholarship .We need a thread about this and everybody put all their heads together and figure it out. For what reason ? Only ours lmao . I’m still pretty sure we still wouldn’t figure it out lmao. It’s alot

 

[germantondevil]

Omg this Society we live in is unfreakin real and more ignorant by the day

 

[Kingbluedevil]

I said unless you were a slave then you shouldn’t be as offended as some people get. She likens it to slavery because that’s what she believe it is. I notice white folks complain more when a black person says this than black folks. You can do a poll in the black community and majority will say it’s modern day slavery.

I agree I have noticed the same thing about white folks

 

[skysdad]

Look. I'm not going to pretend that I KNOW what WC's mom thinks. I do know this. She loves and supports her son. Anyone who hasn't recognized that is a fool. I think her intentions are good but she may have gone off course a bit with her comparisons. I truly doubt spending a season on Duke Campus was in the same GALAXY as slavery. Wendell ate the best food, wore the best gear, met the best people, made the best friends, utilized the best equipment and got the best exposure he could ever hope to find. I understand that for an entire year, he had no financial income, but slavery? Yep, he was used and people made money off of him for a season, but his payday is just around the corner now, why risk tampering with that opportunity? You have to train to become good at your job, you don't make a lot of money at first, but as your skills increase, the pay goes up, you know, like when Wendell gets picked in the NBA draft very soon. Training is over, now he gets paid.

The slavery remark just doesn't make sense. I wonder if she had a chance to say it again if she would leave the slavery part out. OFC

 

[CRAZIE4LIFE]

People need to learn to count their blessings. I'm pretty sure we all have it better than people 200 years ago.