Carter’s mom

[Bod1ne]

“We’re not using you, but if you want to help your career you have to make us millions of dollars for free”.

I’d say they’re still getting used

Why? Because all monies aren't being divided equally between all parties? I'm not saying the NCAA or schools couldn't provide more for players and family, but you're talking 100's of thousands of people to divide that money between. And most schools are barely solvent as it is. And if you're suggesting that the NCAA and schools should not get the lions share of the profits for making all this possible......that's absurd. That's like saying the head of some department at Microsoft should make as much as Bill Gates.

Bottom line, they're not getting used anymore than they're using. The narrative by agents, lawyers and parents that want every penny they can get for everything that they (or the kids) do has folks believing that crap.

 

[Wolfman2610]

They do make our school millions and millions of dollars. Why is everyone else entitled to be rich off of the backs of these kids while their families still struggle with bills. It doesn’t cost the fan anything for the players to get a cut of what they bring in. The only people who would lose money is the corrupt and incompetent NCAA.

I understand the point you are making....However, I ask you this, what do you do for the student-athletes who compete in non-revenue generating sports?

Are you going to pay the shot putter on the women's T&F team? How about the All-American wrestler?

If the answer is yes, who determines your value? Is the third string OG more valuable than the person who competes in the 200 butterfly for the swim team, because his team makes more money, but he personally contributes less?

The idea of paying athletes, while it seems fair on the surface, is a Pandora's box that once opened, might actually do more harm than good.

I don't think anyone is interested in screwing over the kids. But the only way to make it so that EVERY student-athlete receives benefit is to keep the system the way it is where you get your compensation via the scholarship, free meals, housing, gear, training/coaching, etc.

Otherwise, it's going to be one giant headache where there is going to some degree of alienation no matter what you do.

 

[DukeDenver]

I think Ms. Carter means well, but isn’t able enough to articulate it properly. She is also going for drama at the expense of substance. I don’t think her perspective considers all angles.

The NCAA is a monopoly. They have no competition for these players. That to me is what leads to the imbalance in compensation. Her references to two institutions that have targeted people of color is beyond innappropriate in this particular matter. It really makes her look like a race baiter, even if that wasn’t her intention.

Wendell got a year of the Duke experience, great coaching and unparalleled exposure. Was that enough for what he provided? Let’s have that discussion.

 

[timo0402]

I understand the point you are making....However, I ask you this, what do you do for the student-athletes who compete in non-revenue generating sports?

Are you going to pay the shot putter on the women's T&F team? How about the All-American wrestler?

If the answer is yes, who determines your value? Is the third string OG more valuable than the person who competes in the 200 butterfly for the swim team, because his team makes more money, but he personally contributes less?

The idea of paying athletes, while it seems fair on the surface, is a Pandora's box that once opened, might actually do more harm than good.

I don't think anyone is interested in screwing over the kids. But the only way to make it so that EVERY student-athlete receives benefit is to keep the system the way it is where you get your compensation via the scholarship, free meals, housing, gear, training/coaching, etc.

Otherwise, it's going to be one giant headache where there is going to some degree of alienation no matter what you do.

I understand this and have thought about it for a while myself. But now I’m asking myself, why do all student athletes have to get paid? Why does a lacrosse player need to be compensated if a basketball player is? They aren’t creating the same value for the school or NCAA, in fact the basketball player is directly influencing every other athlete at his school. The NCAA uses the March madness money to fund all of its other championships across the board. Obviously i understand the Title IX garbage, which is a whole different can of worms, but if there was a way to repeal that or at least update it there could be opportunities there. It’s not all about paying the players a lump sum but there has to be a way to compensate those players that are directly driving revenue for their schools in some way. Again i don’t have the answers but I’m positive someone smarter than me can figure this out.

 

[Wolfman2610]

I understand this and have thought about it for a while myself. But now I’m asking myself, why do all student athletes have to get paid? Why does a lacrosse player need to be compensated if a basketball player is? They aren’t creating the same value for the school or NCAA, in fact the basketball player is directly influencing every other athlete at his school. The NCAA uses the March madness money to fund all of its other championships across the board. Obviously i understand the Title IX garbage, which is a whole different can of worms, but if there was a way to repeal that or at least update it there could be opportunities there. It’s not all about paying the players a lump sum but there has to be a way to compensate those players that are directly driving revenue for their schools in some way. Again i don’t have the answers but I’m positive someone smarter than me can figure this out.

You don't think paying some and not all would create a significant division in your athletic department?

If I am the lacrosse player who puts in the same time as the basketball player, and he is getting paid and I am getting nothing, you don't think I am going to feel like a second class citizen on my own campus?.

After all, in some cases (maybe less so at places like Duke, Stanford, and Notre Dame), the football and basketball players are barely admissible in the first place, but yet they get to attend great schools for free....At what point does the bending over backwards for them cease?

Not to mention, how would this sit with your regular students who are PAYING $40,000, had to actually meet the admission's standards as written, and who are going to graduate in debt?

What I am suggesting is that you might turn your two money-making sports into campus pariahs....You'd kill school spirit.

Another thing you have to consider (this may sound more harsh than it is intended) is that is there really any special about these kids in particular? Are they themselves the reason the money is pouring in? Are are they just the next group of worker ants in a cash cow that preceded them?

 

[timo0402]

You don't think paying some and not all would create a significant division in your athletic department?

If I am the lacrosse player who puts in the same time as the basketball player, and he is getting paid and I am getting nothing, you don't think I am going to feel like a second class citizen on my own campus?.

After all, in some cases (maybe less so at places like Duke, Stanford, and Notre Dame), the football and basketball players are barely admissible in the first place, but yet they get to attend great schools for free....At what point does the bending over backwards for them cease?

Not to mention, how would this sit with your regular students who are PAYING $40,000, had to actually meet the admission's standards as written, and who are going to graduate in debt?

What I am suggesting is that you might turn your two money-making sports into campus pariahs....You'd kill school spirit.

Yeah it’s a slippery slope i agree. However i think those kids understand the difference. Also it’s business right, it’s dollars and cents. Why can a lacrosse player go make a bunch of money at camps during the summer but a college basketball player cannot?

 

[Wolfman2610]

Yeah it’s a slippery slope i agree. However i think those kids understand the difference. Also it’s business right, it’s dollars and cents. Why can a lacrosse player go make a bunch of money at camps during the summer but a college basketball player cannot?

Is that true? I honestly was under the impression that athletes on scholarship could not receive compensation for anything they do within the realm of the sport.

The exception that I have seen in wrestling (at Minnesota) is that seniors will renounce their scholarships and then use the money make off the campus to fund that final year.

If what you say is valid, then yes, I concede that that is an injustice...Equality has to be across the board in all areas. So if that means that basketball cannot make money off camps, then neither should any other athlete.

At the end of the day, I truly believe that most people (fans, administration, etc) want to do right by the young men and women....It's just so darn difficult to find that panacea.

I am open (or at least willing to consider) the idea of allowing players to have jobs during their non-competition season; and would even be ok with allowing them to make money off their own image....The money just CANNOT come from the school itself. That is the only limitation I'd put on it.

 

[Arlene]

compares college basketball to slavery and prison. Wasn’t there a article out last month in which she suggested Wendell come back to Duke for another year?

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...dell-carter-mother-likens-ncaa-system-slavery

And down goes Wendell in the draft. NBA teams don’t have to deal with parents like this running their mouths. She’s cost her son, but probably more important to her, herself a bunch of $$. Keep talking and Wendell will end up in Latvia.

 

[Showenuff]

I think she is way out of line and hurting Wendell big time.

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

Yikes at attempting to formulate it in a racial scope.

She seems very out of touch with the average college student experience, even student athlete.

Most college students have to work a part time job AND still take on student loans to afford classes. Carter's part time job was playing basketball. Totally fair. He was even ahead of the curve with essentially an internship position the second he stepped on campus.

 

[TheDude1]

If you think being a Duke basketball player is anything other than a full time job, you are nuts.

The fact that some people are getting so caught up in a single simile and not actually commenting on the meat of what was said says a lot.

 

[Canadian Dukie]

Gotta say... that’s a Duke Mom. One of ours. As a Duke guy, I think there is a certain amount of decency and loyalty that comes with that. A bit surprised at how some folks have reacted.

It's not that surprising when you see how some of our posters talk to each other

 

[Bod1ne]

If you think being a Duke basketball player is anything other than a full time job, you are nuts.

The fact that some people are getting so caught up in a single simile and not actually commenting on the meat of what was said says a lot.

No one is saying it isn't difficult work and a grind on the player. No more so than the student that has to work and take a full course load (which athletes at most schools don't. NCAA only requires 3/4 time for athletes). Her message is the same one that has been spewed by many a parent and agent for a couple decades (I don't remember hearing it much pre-early 90's). "Pay us for everything, because you're making money".

It's pure greed by the parents/agents and just as manipulative of the student, for financial gain, as the NCAA is doing, in a lot of cases.

If the NCAA started paying everybody (and they would have to pay everybody, or all that money would go bye-bye in lawsuits) you would no longer have most college sports. Just Football, basketball and a few others that made money. And only at a few schools, depending on the sport. Basically 10's of thousands of kids not being able to go to school because of a couple thousand greedy jerks that feel that getting theirs at the expense of 10's, if not 100's, of thousands of kids is perfectly acceptable.

Believe the narrative all you want, but she isn't being altruistic or heroic. She's wanting to get paid, at every turn, for her sons work and talent. Her using the word slavery is just icing on the cake.

 

[HeLooks2MuchLikeDave]

Seems she has been watching one too many of Roy’s pressers

 

[sheyduke]

At the end of her speech she says,” preparing them for transition from college to the league!”

So is she saying the colleges should line up agents, accountants, managers and advisers?

Go straight out of high school will end all this.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

I’d gladly switch places with any of these players. You want education? Here it is for free! You want to go to the pros and get paid in a year? Go. In the meantime come play basketball and live for free for a year doing what you love..... Her whole argument is bogus given the choices Carter had and took..... Im lost as to what she’s complaining about anyway other then the race bait like somebody stated. She ought to be thanking god! Blessed! She needs to think about all the kids that go to college and end up paying for it for a long time! With part time jobs while going....Needs to think about how’s that fair for them lol.... want want want want . Her whole argument actually makes no sense steadily contradicting herself . If she wants to talk come out and tell us really what you want besides the sidestepping mumble jumble , hypocrite, double standard , contradicting, Life’s not fair, race, bologna . Better yet she doesn’t deserve a microphone imo....”I’m mad because I want my son to have an education and money while doing it while whites make all the money and after become a millionaire ”. Is what I get out of it.....it’s his choice!!!! and the same for everybody......how much more do you need ?!

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

I think we’re all baited from her and this thread doesn’t even deserve another response for her .

 

[TheDude1]

It's not that surprising when you see how some of our posters talk to each other

Yeah, this is the worst part, especially since she is literally the parent of a Duke player, being bashed by people with no similar connection to, or experience at, Duke. If you are a Duke fan, you should at least be able to address it without being a dick. Say you disagree, say that you think it is a terrible comparison, say what you want... but christ almightly, thats Wendell's mom, you know?

 

[TheDude1]

No one is saying it isn't difficult work and a grind on the player. No more so than the student that has to work and take a full course load (which athletes at most schools don't. NCAA only requires 3/4 time for athletes). Her message is the same one that has been spewed by many a parent and agent for a couple decades (I don't remember hearing it much pre-early 90's). "Pay us for everything, because you're making money".

It's pure greed by the parents/agents and just as manipulative of the student, for financial gain, as the NCAA is doing, in a lot of cases.

If the NCAA started paying everybody (and they would have to pay everybody, or all that money would go bye-bye in lawsuits) you would no longer have most college sports. Just Football, basketball and a few others that made money. And only at a few schools, depending on the sport. Basically 10's of thousands of kids not being able to go to school because of a couple thousand greedy jerks that feel that getting theirs at the expense of 10's, if not 100's, of thousands of kids is perfectly acceptable.

Believe the narrative all you want, but she isn't being altruistic or heroic. She's wanting to get paid, at every turn, for her sons work and talent. Her using the word slavery is just icing on the cake.

Woof. A few points worth discussing, but also a lot there I cannot get behind, the most noticeable of which is when you accuse Wendell's mom of taking advantage of/manipulating her son, when you don't know a single thing about her, him, the family... any of it.

 

[LONMUNU]

While getting a free education is nice, you can’t spend a free education. Everyone is getting rich off of this but they don’t deserve a piece of the pie? I mean assistants are making millions now. It is a billion dollar industry. It’s a business, it’s no longer amateurism and hasn’t been for a long time.

Technically you don’t even have to pay them although I think they should. Let them work, let them sell their autographs, let them make and sell shirts or whatever. Some have said it’s all about money and it absolutely is but somehow we are ok with everyone profiting off of these kids while they aren’t allowed to make a dime.

 

[TheDude1]

I think comparing anything to slavery really undermines and deminishes how brutal slavery really is. Having said that, if that is all you take from her speech then that is on the reader. I don’t care for that comparison nor everything she said, but she did make a lot of fair points.

She’s definitely not afraid to speak her mind. I’ll give her credit there.

Using the word slavery causes some of her speech to lose its substance, IMO. Most of her points, if we’re being honest, I think hit the nail on the head. The NCAA doesn’t care about its student-athletes....it’s a fraudulent organization. The NCAA going away is something good for everyone.

I get the point that she’s trying to make, but using that terminology was an airball.

Here; some of you should just hit "like" on these two reasonable posts, and then STFU.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

You go to college to get a good job.....I’m lost

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

While getting a free education is nice, you can’t spend a free education. Everyone is getting rich off of this but they don’t deserve a piece of the pie? I mean assistants are making millions now. It is a billion dollar industry. It’s a business, it’s no longer amateurism and hasn’t been for a long time.

Technically you don’t even have to pay them although I think they should. Let them work, let them sell their autographs, let them make and sell shirts or whatever. Some have said it’s all about money and it absolutely is but somehow we are ok with everyone profiting off of these kids while they aren’t allowed to make a dime.

A piece ? I think they will in 1 year! And yea assistants are making millions because??? That’s their job now! Lol. It’s a process everybody follows. Can’t pay these kids. Some rules I agree need to change but not that.

 

[sheyduke]

While getting a free education is nice, you can’t spend a free education. Everyone is getting rich off of this but they don’t deserve a piece of the pie? I mean assistants are making millions now. It is a billion dollar industry. It’s a business, it’s no longer amateurism and hasn’t been for a long time.

Technically you don’t even have to pay them although I think they should. Let them work, let them sell their autographs, let them make and sell shirts or whatever. Some have said it’s all about money and it absolutely is but somehow we are ok with everyone profiting off of these kids while they aren’t allowed to make a dime.

So have them go to the g league or over seas!

They’ll get paid way more then any college is gonna pay an athlete and still get drafted. The reason they won’t do it, is because it will show more weaknesses in the players. This is a non issue if you look at it.

It’s penny to dollars that’s all. I agree what about the kids that if it weren’t for the scholarship would be in enormous debt coming out of college once they get their degree?

 

[Mac9192]

It's not that surprising when you see how some of our posters talk to each other

Here; some of you should just hit "like" on these two reasonable posts, and then STFU.

Canadian Dukie, this was Dude's response. You hit the nail on the head there pal.

 

[TheDude1]

Canadian Dukie, this was Dude's response. You hit the nail on the head there pal.

Come on, Mac, don't play the victim here, it's below you. When you have posters calling a player's mom dumb and manipulative and saying she should shut the F up and all of this other garbage (after saying they didn't even read the comments?!) on a public forum, they deserve it. As a Duke fan and a Duke grad and a former Duke athlete, some of what is being posted on this thread is embarrassing as hell.

 

[Mac9192]

Come on, Mac, don't play the victim here, it's below you. When you have posters calling a player's mom dumb and manipulative and saying she should shut the F up and all of this other garbage (after saying they didn't even read the comments?!) on a public forum, they deserve it. As a Duke fan and a Duke grad and a former Duke athlete, some of what is being posted on this thread is embarrassing as hell.

You're entitled to your opinion Dude. No problem with that. No one should cuss each other, it gets heated around here enough as it is. That's all.

 

[IPSYCHOSIS]

Well when you have a mom coming out and basically saying because the majority of athletes are black are slaves now because whites are making money off it it’s hard for tempers to not rise at that . I agree with not attacking the Mom but she kinda opened herself up for debate.

 

[PatrickYates]

Gotta say... that’s a Duke Mom. One of ours. As a Duke guy, I think there is a certain amount of decency and loyalty that comes with that. A bit surprised at how some folks have reacted.

Loyalty is a two way street. All she has to do is spout off about how much her son loved Duke, and loved college, but that it is time to earn obscene amounts of money playing a game he loves.
.
Because Duke was great for WC. Towards the end of his HS career, there were serious questions about his potential. He wasn't in great shape, and many wondered how his game would translate given that he wasn't a great athlete. At Duke he got into shape, and showed that he had a serious future as a starting level player (about which there was some doubt).
.
If he'd been able to go straight from HS to NBA, WC would have been a late lottery, or just out of the lottery pick. After getting in shape over the summer at Duke, and showing out while at Duke, he'll likely be gone by the 9th pick, if not earlier. To be fair, he's projected as an Al Horford clone, and Horford's continued dominance for the Celts is fluffing up WC's value.
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Regardless, WC's year at Duke will likely pay for itself over the life of his rookie deal. The difference between going 9th and 18th, over the length of the contract, pays for itself. To say nothing of the value WC will receive as a former Coach K/Duke player.
.
People act like the players get nothing from playing in College 1-2 guys a year really get jobbed. Almost everyone else benefits from college.

 

[HuffyJB]

At the very least, the comparison she drew was in poor taste, and rhetorically ineffective because it is comically hyperbolic. Her choice to go that route unfortunately hinders the validity of her comments. I say unfortunately because the general comment she is making has some merit and is worth discussing - and it has been by a number of people recently. You don't need shock value to make a point.

I have no idea what the ultimate answer is to the question at the heart of it all. I am firmly in the camp who feels the NCAA athlete gets a lot for their scholarship: a free education (UNC excluded), room and board, food, access to high level coaches and trainers, comped travel, in some cases invaluable exposure, among many other things. That being said, it is increasingly hard to justify the billions the NCAA makes in the face of the argument for further compensation for players. The biggest issue to me has been mentioned on here, in regards to the variance in sport and athlete and their hand in the money the university makes - how do you compensate the star quarterback vs. a back-up field hockey player?

 

[TheDude1]

Well when you have a mom coming out and basically saying because the majority of athletes are black are slaves now because whites are making money off it it’s hard for tempers to not rise at that . I agree with not attacking the Mom but she kinda opened herself up for debate.

Sure, debate away! Say that she made a terrible comparison, say that you think college athletes should be paid, say whatever you want... but some of the vitriol aimed at one of our own here is just too much.

 

[TheDude1]

At the very least, the comparison she drew was in poor taste, and rhetorically ineffective because it is comically hyperbolic. Her choice to go that route unfortunately hinders the validity of her comments. I say unfortunately because the general comment she is making has some merit and is worth discussing - and it has been by a number of people recently. You don't need shock value to make a point.

I have no idea what the ultimate answer is to the question at the heart of it all. I am firmly in the camp who feels the NCAA athlete gets a lot for their scholarship: a free education (UNC excluded), room and board, food, access to high level coaches and trainers, comped travel, in some cases invaluable exposure, among many other things. That being said, it is increasingly hard to justify the billions the NCAA makes in the face of the argument for further compensation for players. The biggest issue to me has been mentioned on here, in regards to the variance in sport and athlete and their hand in the money the university makes - how do you compensate the star quarterback vs. a back-up field hockey player?

Good post.

 

[TheDude1]

You're entitled to your opinion Dude. No problem with that. No one should cuss each other, it gets heated around here enough as it is. That's all.

I wasn't aiming it at anyone in particular, so I figured nobody would get too offended. Given that it was the second STFU in this thread, and this one was about "stop bashing one of our families" rather than aimed AT one of our families, I figured it was also fine.

 

[LH24ND]

Her act is worn out....She talked of Wendell possibly returning, and then goes on a hypocritical rant today. She should be thankful K stood by her when she reached out to him for lunching with an agent. I love Wendell, great kid- but Mrs. Carter don't let the door hit ya on your way out....

My thoughts exactly. I cease to be amazed at the lunacy in this country.

 

[PatrickYates]

“We’re not using you, but if you want to help your career you have to make us millions of dollars for free”.

I’d say they’re still getting used

How many are really used though? Less than 5 per year. AKA those kids that would be top 5 picks out of HS, and would then go on to excel.
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Take Kyrie Irving. After his Senior year of HS ended, he'd have been a first round pick. Probably late lottery or just after that. Instead, he goes to Duke and abuses folks at the pro-am, and has 11 games of brilliance. He goes 1st overall and signs a 10 million dollar shoe deal (over 3 years). Out of HS he'd have gone 10-15 picks later, and been lucky to get 500K for 2-3 years on a shoe deal. So, his year at Duke probably earned him an extra 10-15 million just over the course of rookie deal.
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Nolan Smith wouldn't have been taken into the G league out of HS. He wouldn't have made a top league in Europe out of HS. Over 4 years he turned into a lottery pick and made millions of dollars over his rookie deal, and playing at Duke will probably set him up for a career as a coach that will last 2-3 decades. So, he did OK.
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Bagley would have been a top 5 pick whenever he came out. Regardless, he's going to make more money off endorsements now that the pros (and advertisers) know what they are getting from him.

And running a college basketball team ain't cheap. People throw out names like Duke, or Kansas, or UNC, or UK. And yes, we make tons of money. Most of the ACC does. But those teams spend a ton of money to run the team (many of which enjoy amenities only slightly less than those of NBA players), to say nothing of the incredible cost in time and money on recruiting.
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And yes, at the end of the day, some top kids are "hosed." They make the schools far more money than the schools spend on those players. But that money funds the athletic scholarships for a lot of poor kids who play non-revenue sports. Money earned by hoops/FB programs don't stay with those teams. It is spread around, a lot.

 

[CRAZIE4LIFE]

I think we need to be compensated as fans. How much time, effort, and stress does it cost us each year. Not to mention the money we pay for clothing, tickets, and sports packages on tv. We need a cut.

 

[Devilinside]

Gotta say... that’s a Duke Mom. One of ours. As a Duke guy, I think there is a certain amount of decency and loyalty that comes with that. A bit surprised at how some folks have reacted.

Her son was fortunate enough to have spent one year at Duke. Her words reveal, however, that in spite of that connection, she most certainly is not a "Duke Mom" but is a flaming ingrate.

 

[LONMUNU]

So have them go to the g league or over seas!

They’ll get paid way more then any college is gonna pay an athlete and still get drafted. The reason they won’t do it, is because it will show more weaknesses in the players. This is a non issue if you look at it.

It’s penny to dollars that’s all. I agree what about the kids that if it weren’t for the scholarship would be in enormous debt coming out of college once they get their degree?

Not every 18 year old kid can handle going to live and play in a foreign country. Some of these kids have probably never been out of the country before.

I know there are options but that doesn’t take away the fact that this is a billion dollar industry and everyone is getting rich but these kids. The fact that some will make millions next year or the year after that does not change the fact of how much money these schools make of of college basketball.

 

[LONMUNU]

I think we need to be compensated as fans. How much time, effort, and stress does it cost us each year. Not to mention the money we pay for clothing, tickets, and sports packages on tv. We need a cut.

Now this I can get behind! At least some health benefits to help my heart that can’t take these close games and stress at my older age haha!

 

[TheDude1]

Her son was fortunate enough to have spent one year at Duke. Her words reveal, however, that in spite of that connection, she most certainly is not a "Duke Mom" but is a flaming ingrate.

You are wrong.

"I told him I wanted him to come back [to school]," Carter's mom, Kylia, told The Undefeated. "His jaw dropped. It has nothing to do with basketball. It's about you. It's about who he is. He is a student at core."

Being a student, growing as a person, is the very HEART of the Duke experience.

While acknowledging it's a business decision, Kylia Carter believes her son will become a better leader and more confident person if he returns to Duke.

She said she told her son: "If you came back it would make you a better person, improve your quality of life."

A better leader because he would be under K. A better person because of the education he would receive, the views he would be exposed to, the debates he would participate in, the fellow students and professors he would know... all at the heart of the Duke experience.

I've seen absolutely nothing that makes Kylia Carter any less of a Duke mom than anyone else. She supported her son's decision to come to our school, cheered from the stands, and has said she thought he would become a better person if he had stayed.

Your judgement is ridiculous.