OT 2018 Winter Olympics Gender Regulations

[OldasdirtDevil]

How can this be fair to female competitors? There will be no sex or gender testing required for the upcoming games (Winter Olympics). SMH.


http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/03/heres-what-the-2018-olympic-gender-regulations-look-like/

In case this has been posted before (I've been absent for different periods of time this summer), then mods please delete.

OFC

 

[acc hoops]

Bruce Jenner can come out of retirement.
The lunatics are running the asylum.

 

[DukeDenver]

I'm not about to pretend I give a crap about the winter olympics.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

I'm not about to pretend I give a crap about the winter olympics.

I can understand that, Denver, but that snowball rolling down the slippery
slope isn't likely to stop anytime soon.

OFC

 

[DukeDenver]

I can understand that, Denver, but that snowball rolling down the slippery
slope isn't likely to stop anytime soon.

OFC

I agree it makes no sense to let women with male hormone levels compete with other women. I just don't know how you regulate such a thing without making these superwomen feel like lab animals. It's a tough question.

 

[crazyduke3]

How can this be fair to female competitors? There will be no sex or gender testing required for the upcoming games (Winter Olympics). SMH.


http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/03/heres-what-the-2018-olympic-gender-regulations-look-like/

In case this has been posted before (I've been absent for different periods of time this summer), then mods please delete.

OFC

Tell it brother! I agree.

 

[Mac9192]

I can understand that, Denver, but that snowball rolling down the slippery
slope isn't likely to stop anytime soon.

OFC

We are in an age where it's "Oh how do you feel," or "Pat is so brave to truly express how she feels."
There comes a time when someone needs to stand up and say "Men to the left, women to the right, confused go to San Francisco"

 

[dbav]

I'm not about to pretend I give a crap about the winter olympics.

I actually find the biathlon mesmerizing. I can't get enough of that, big air and curling.

 

[PixelDevil]

Is women's wrestling a thing at the winter olympics? If so, I might be lacing up the old asics and heading to pyeongchang.

 

[GARY4plus3]

Won't be long before all Olympic athletes, whether they finish first or last, receive the same color participation medals. That way some people don't get their feelings hurt.

 

[skysdad]

Who on this board knows who Ren'ee Richards is. The writing was on the wall way back then. OFC

 

[skysdad]

Is women's wrestling a thing at the winter olympics? If so, I might be lacing up the old asics and heading to pyeongchang.

I think unc has a women's wrestling team. Some of them do double sports and plays on the co-ed curling team or is it the other way around. Co-ed wrestling and women's curling. OFC

 

[GARY4plus3]

Who on this board knows who Ren'ee Richards is. The writing was on the wall way back then. OFC

Hahaha... Renee Richards. Some say he was a "man before his time"!

 

[Dattier]

I agree it makes no sense to let women with male hormone levels compete with other women. I just don't know how you regulate such a thing without making these superwomen feel like lab animals. It's a tough question.

They all get treated like lab animals regardless of gender, what w/ all the drug tests and such.

My previous understanding was that transwomen had to test below a certain testosterone level for 6 months in order to be eligible to compete with other women in the Olympics. I don't know the science of why they went w/ 6 months, but it sounds like a well-considered plan. I don't know why they'd go any softer.

 

[DukeDenver]

They all get treated like lab animals regardless of gender, what w/ all the drug tests and such.

My previous understanding was that transwomen had to test below a certain testosterone level for 6 months in order to be eligible to compete with other women in the Olympics. I don't know the science of why they went w/ 6 months, but it sounds like a well-considered plan. I don't know why they'd go any softer.

Six months provides a reasonable window by which any previous hormone abnormalities and the associated muscular changes would have atrophied. The thing is, you can raise and lower T levels in a month and probably escape detection (I'm no expert). Plus, high circulating T levels on race day would provide other, transient physiological benefits.

 

[DukeDenver]

I actually find the biathlon mesmerizing. I can't get enough of that, big air and curling.

I guess those are pretty entertaining, I just meant that the results mean nothing to me.

 

[hart2chesson]

Who on this board knows who Ren'ee Richards is. The writing was on the wall way back then. OFC

Dr Richard Raskind!

OFC

 

[acc hoops]

Who on this board knows who Ren'ee Richards is. The writing was on the wall way back then. OFC

Saw him / her play in US Open at Forest Hills in 1977.

 

[TheDude1]

Seems unfair to me.

Edit: just read the article. So apparently it's nothing new; just the same as previous Olympics. And it isn't about transgender people; it's about intersex people (people who are born without a single sex, often without two sets of genitals.). Seems the issue was female athletes with high testosterone levels, not transgender athletes. Apparently they are still trying to figure the science of it out.

A bit of a dense article.

 

[skysdad]

Hahaha... Renee Richards. Some say he was a "man before his time"!

Now that's funny. OFC

 

[tw3301]

Seems unfair to me.

Edit: just read the article. So apparently it's nothing new; just the same as previous Olympics. And it isn't about transgender people; it's about intersex people (people who are born without a single sex, often without two sets of genitals.). Seems the issue was female athletes with high testosterone levels, not transgender athletes. Apparently they are still trying to figure the science of it out.

A bit of a dense article.

Are there a lot of people born with both sex organs that compete in the olympics? I would tend to think not so why is this really an issue?

 

[DukeDenver]

Are there a lot of people born with both sex organs that compete in the olympics? I would tend to think not so why is this really an issue?

Trust me, I am a biologist.

We all have both female and male sex organ progenitor cells as embryos: meaning that in the beginning we are all gender neutral except for our sex chromosomes. Adult gender as we know it is simply the average levels at which we either become masculinized (by losing Müllerian ducts) or stay with the default female development (by losing our Wolffian ducts). Given the complexity of what happens following embryogenesis at the genetic level to make us more or less male, it's not surprising that there plenty of people in between the extremes. Much of the variation goes unnoticed.

Translation: There are plenty of women with lady parts that have internal, undeveloped testes. That's just not something that comes up at happy hour.

 

[gottagonow]

Trust me, I am a biologist.

We all have both female and male sex organ progenitor cells as embryos: meaning that in the beginning we are all gender neutral except for our sex chromosomes. Adult gender as we know it is simply the average levels at which we either become masculinized (by losing Müllerian ducts) or stay with the default female development (by losing our Wolffian ducts). Given the complexity of what happens following embryogenesis at the genetic level to make us more or less male, it's not surprising that there plenty of people in between the extremes. Much of the variation goes unnoticed.

Translation: There are plenty of women with lady parts that have internal, undeveloped testes. That's just not something that comes up at happy hour.

Oh come on now! just when I I was beginning to think it was ok for women to like baseball and fishing you say this.

 

[Mac9192]

Trust me, I am a biologist.

We all have both female and male sex organ progenitor cells as embryos: meaning that in the beginning we are all gender neutral except for our sex chromosomes. Adult gender as we know it is simply the average levels at which we either become masculinized (by losing Müllerian ducts) or stay with the default female development (by losing our Wolffian ducts). Given the complexity of what happens following embryogenesis at the genetic level to make us more or less male, it's not surprising that there plenty of people in between the extremes. Much of the variation goes unnoticed.

Translation: There are plenty of women with lady parts that have internal, undeveloped testes. That's just not something that comes up at happy hour.

I understood it up to the part where you said you are a biologist, then my eyes started to cross

 

[TheDude1]

Are there a lot of people born with both sex organs that compete in the olympics? I would tend to think not so why is this really an issue?

This is a thing because of one specific woman runner, yes.

 

[dbav]

Trust me, I am a biologist.

We all have both female and male sex organ progenitor cells as embryos: meaning that in the beginning we are all gender neutral except for our sex chromosomes. Adult gender as we know it is simply the average levels at which we either become masculinized (by losing Müllerian ducts) or stay with the default female development (by losing our Wolffian ducts). Given the complexity of what happens following embryogenesis at the genetic level to make us more or less male, it's not surprising that there plenty of people in between the extremes. Much of the variation goes unnoticed.

Translation: There are plenty of women with lady parts that have internal, undeveloped testes. That's just not something that comes up at happy hour.

Stop trying to sound so smart.

 

[HuffyJB]

Translation: There are plenty of women with lady parts that have internal, undeveloped testes. That's just not something that comes up at happy hour.

Maybe not where you drink...

 

[Liftee]

It was my understanding there would be no science on a Duke basketball board. Just shows how wrong you can be.

 

[tw3301]

Translation: There are plenty of women with lady parts that have internal, undeveloped testes.

That explains a lot about my wife...

 

[DukeDenver]

That explains a lot about my wife...

Lol

 

[SwatX1]

Trust me, I am a biologist.

We all have both female and male sex organ progenitor cells as embryos: meaning that in the beginning we are all gender neutral except for our sex chromosomes. Adult gender as we know it is simply the average levels at which we either become masculinized (by losing Müllerian ducts) or stay with the default female development (by losing our Wolffian ducts). Given the complexity of what happens following embryogenesis at the genetic level to make us more or less male, it's not surprising that there plenty of people in between the extremes. Much of the variation goes unnoticed.

Translation: There are plenty of women with lady parts that have internal, undeveloped testes. That's just not something that comes up at happy hour.

Is this sort of the same as people at work telling me I am close to developing man boobs? No?

 

[skysdad]

I'm not sure about this transgender thing but I do know that plenty of women fart just as loud,often and smelly as men. Does that have anything to do with being a transgender. OFC

 

[Dattier]

Trust me, I am a biologist.

We all have both female and male sex organ progenitor cells as embryos: meaning that in the beginning we are all gender neutral except for our sex chromosomes. Adult gender as we know it is simply the average levels at which we either become masculinized (by losing Müllerian ducts) or stay with the default female development (by losing our Wolffian ducts). Given the complexity of what happens following embryogenesis at the genetic level to make us more or less male, it's not surprising that there plenty of people in between the extremes. Much of the variation goes unnoticed.

Translation: There are plenty of women with lady parts that have internal, undeveloped testes. That's just not something that comes up at happy hour.

I've heard embarrassing people way further left than I am claim that -- among other things -- a chromosome test will confirm the scientific, biological fact of transgenderism. That's not true, though, is it? It's not the same, say, as an intersexed person being raised as one gender almost as if by parental coin flip, only to develop in ways that break the other way, is it? And would it technically be true, then, that among cis men who identify as such their entire lives, there are varying degrees of Müllerian ducts?

 

[DukeDenver]

I've heard embarrassing people way further left than I am claim that -- among other things -- a chromosome test will confirm the scientific, biological fact of transgenderism. That's not true, though, is it? It's not the same, say, as an intersexed person being raised as one gender almost as if by parental coin flip, only to develop in ways that break the other way, is it? And would it technically be true, then, that among cis men who identify as such their entire lives, there are varying degrees of Müllerian ducts?

There is a master male signal produced on the Y chromosome: TDF. This TDF signal inhibits Mullerian substances and promotes male hormone production. But imagine if TDF is only expressed at 70%, you could have partial maleness and partial reduction of femaleness downstream. Lots of room for amorphisms. It's still pretty rare, so it's not going to shape society that much. Male and Female should still be the way we organize, and we just do the best we can accomodating the rest.

 

[Dattier]

..Male and Female should still be the way we organize, and we just do the best we can accomodating the rest.

We could do better. I don't think we even try to do our half-best.

So there is some biological science behind transgenderism, not just psychological? Like, that 70% dude could theoretically look like a dude to the rest of us, be presumed to be male from birth, then that 30% might include where the person ultimately takes their gender identity from? And another 70% dude could live life entirely and comfortably as a cis man?

 

[DukeDenver]

We could do better. I don't think we even try to do our half-best.

So there is some biological science behind transgenderism, not just psychological? Like, that 70% dude could theoretically look like a dude to the rest of us, be presumed to be male from birth, then that 30% might include where the person ultimately takes their gender identity from? And another 70% dude could live life entirely and comfortably as a cis man?

Yes, but the science is imprecise. Rest assured, biologists all agree, it's mostly developmental with genetic underpinnings. Self perception is genetic too and often seperate from the way your body itself is put together. The brain will be a mystery to scientists for many decades.